What I was trying to say:

Person A:
- Eats nine meals a week that are almost exclusively processed foods with tons of added sugars
- Eats a high-calorie, high sugar, highly processed snack an additional seven times a week

Person B:
- Eats three meals a week that are almost exclusively processed foods with tons of added sugars
- Eats a high-calorie, high sugar, highly processed snack an additional three times a week

Person C:
- Eats zero meals a week that are almost exclusively processed foods with tons of added sugars
- Eats a high-calorie, high sugar, highly processed snack an additional zero times a week

If you switch from being Person A to Person B, you'll see results in the long run.

Not as fast as if you'd become Person C, and no matter how long you spend as Person B you'll never have the same potential as Person C, but if you make the change from A to B the needle will move.

bagger05 said:

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I don't understand your comment.

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Restricting calories slows metabolism, which reduces the amount of calories the body needs to run. A study from "the biggest loser" contestants found that they were dropping the number of calories needed to maintain their weight by up to 500 calories per day. In essence, they screwed up their metabolism so bad that they had to significantly reduce consumption just to maintain their weight.

It's much more complicated than calories in/calories out.

As you do this type of weight loss over time, you will develop similar problems to older overweight people. The dieting/calorie restriction is a big part of the problem.

The timing of when food is consumed and insulin seem to be more critical components of weight gain/loss than calories.

aggie appraiser said:

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The timing of when food is consumed and insulin seem to be more critical components of weight gain/loss than calories.

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You literally can't gain weight if you don't eat more calories than you spend? I'd say that's pretty damn critical.

People can make this as complicated as they want but if calories consumed > calories burned you are going to gain weight..... Meal timing is irrelevant for the majority of us.

Gordon McKernan said:

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People can make this as complicated as they want but if calories consumed > calories burned you are going to gain weight..... Meal timing is irrelevant for the majority of us.

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Sounds logical, but I believe it is wrong and it is a big part of the problem we have with weight.

The real driver for gaining/losing weight is insulin, not calories. Insulin tells your body to store fat or burn fat. If one constantly snacks on sugarfree (zero calorie) gum or mints or even coffee with cream, a constant message is sent to insulin to store fat. The body is going to attempt to store energy. If there are no calories to store, then the metabolic rate will slow down.

There is a Dr (Jason Fung) who has written a book, actually a couple of books, describing what is going on with calories, insulin (and other hormones), and weight called "The Obesity Code". Some people are insulin resistent and their insulin response is much different than normal (healthy) people.

The Obesity Code: Unlocking the Secrets of Weight Loss

This Dr has been reversing type 2 diabetes and is helping people lose incredible amounts of weight.

Gotcha.

I think a lot of what this dude says makes a ton of sense.

However, you have this guy whose weight dropped 27 lbs in two months based on a traditional calories in calories out system while eating foods that should have been spiking his insulin nonstop. Literally two thirds of his calories came from junk food and he was eating at short regular intervals, not fasting.

bagger05 said:

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Gotcha.

I think a lot of what this dude says makes a ton of sense.

However, you have this guy whose weight dropped 27 lbs in two months based on a traditional calories in calories out system while eating foods that should have been spiking his insulin nonstop. Literally two thirds of his calories came from junk food and he was eating at short regular intervals, not fasting.

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Some people are insulin resistant and some are not, and it changes over time depending on diet.

There are lots of studies/diets where short term weight loss is achievable. Maintaining that over time is another matter. He says many diets will temporarily reduce weight, but they reduce your metabolism and make it very difficult to maintain that weight.

Another point I haven't mentioned is the insulin response to the macro food groups, carbs, fats, and proteins. Fats provide the lowest insulin response. By instructing us to remove fats from our diets, the medical community and government further encouraged the obesity and type 2 diabetes epidemic.

Quote:

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By instructing us to remove fats from our diets, the medical community and government further encouraged the obesity and type 2 diabetes epidemic.

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you seem to be pretty hung up on this, but is it fair to say that research just hadn't gone deep enough yet, instead of claiming it as some sort of medical/government conspiracy?

Pahdz said:

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Quote:

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By instructing us to remove fats from our diets, the medical community and government further encouraged the obesity and type 2 diabetes epidemic.

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you seem to be pretty hung up on this, but is it fair to say that research just hadn't gone deep enough yet, instead of claiming it as some sort of medical/government conspiracy?

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There was some research that was thought to link fat in the diet with heart disease and the medical community ran with it. It later turned out to be wrong, but in the meantime obesity skyrocketed. Also, the food pyramid was heavily carb based. I don't think it was a nefarious conspiracy, but a massive series of errors.

Calorie restriction is not the cause of our obesity epidemic.

Well back to posting about our progress instead of getting into a debate about silliness where someone wants to be "right" on the internet.

So, last Wednesday I ran 5 miles at lunch... was a very comfortable run, and "fast" for my current age and overweightness. Then that afternoon I started coming down with the cold symptoms everyone in my office seems to have.
Therefore, no workouts, Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun... was sick as a dog.

Still feeling a little under the weather yesterday, I decided to at least make an effort to get moving. After dinner, I thought "Well I'll just run 3 miles and get back into it". Started off and felt great. powered through 5 miles and still felt great.

Saw 207.4 this morning on the scale. Not sure what real weight is since I did sweat a lot last night (70F and humid sucks for running... not as bad as 100F... but still).

going to run at lunch again today. will use tomorrow morning's weigh in as my official weight.

aggie appraiser said:

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The timing of when food is consumed and insulin seem to be more critical components of weight gain/loss than calories.

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Help me understand this better.

As a hypothetical, I start out at a BMR of 2,000 calories. I'm restricting myself to 1,500 calories/day but I eat like an average American - some processed foods, plenty of sugar, with carbs representing >50% of total calories consumed. In this scenario, you would say that my BMR would drop up to 500 calories ultimately leading to me having to restrict myself to 1500 calories just to maintain. But, even assuming 1) my BMR drops to adjust to my deficit, 2) my insulin levels are perpetually spiked, and 3) I'm eating/snacking regularly, I'd still be running a deficit and losing weight.

In scenario 2, I eat 2500 calories against a BMR of 2,000 calories. I practice intermittent fasting and eat healthy foods - lean protein and veggies constitute 80%+ of my diet and I by and large avoid any processed foods or simple sugar. With a 500 calorie surplus, would those calories simply not be metabolized and effectively be excreted? It seems to me like regardless of when I eat those calories or the type of calorie, if I'm running a surplus, there are 500 calories that will be metabolized and stored as fat. Otherwise, where would they go?

I guess I don't understand the relationship between insulin levels and weight loss.

Saturday mid-afternoon I weighed in at 194.5.. A full 10lbs less than my starting weight of 205... This morning 203. I'll use tomorrow morning as my updated weigh-in for the week.

john32f said:

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aggie appraiser said:

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The timing of when food is consumed and insulin seem to be more critical components of weight gain/loss than calories.

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Help me understand this better.

As a hypothetical, I start out at a BMR of 2,000 calories. I'm restricting myself to 1,500 calories/day but I eat like an average American - some processed foods, plenty of sugar, with carbs representing >50% of total calories consumed. In this scenario, you would say that my BMR would drop up to 500 calories ultimately leading to me having to restrict myself to 1500 calories just to maintain. But, even assuming 1) my BMR drops to adjust to my deficit, 2) my insulin levels are perpetually spiked, and 3) I'm eating/snacking regularly, I'd still be running a deficit and losing weight.

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Your metabolism will continue to slow down as your body is trying to hold you at your current weight. You would have to keep reducing calories and increasing exercise to maintain the loss. Fasting causes your insulin to go down, which lowers your body's set weight.

Quote:

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In scenario 2, I eat 2500 calories against a BMR of 2,000 calories. I practice intermittent fasting and eat healthy foods - lean protein and veggies constitute 80%+ of my diet and I by and large avoid any processed foods or simple sugar. With a 500 calorie surplus, would those calories simply not be metabolized and effectively be excreted? It seems to me like regardless of when I eat those calories or the type of calorie, if I'm running a surplus, there are 500 calories that will be metabolized and stored as fat. Otherwise, where would they go?

I guess I don't understand the relationship between insulin levels and weight loss.

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Your metabolism will speed up and burn more calories due to fasting. I was listening to his book "The Obesity Code" earlier and he mentioned a study where groups of people eating the same amount of calories but the meal timing was different. The group that consumed all their calories in a tight window lost much more weight than the group that ate traditionally throughout the day.

Evidently, I've hijacked the thread. I'll refrain from any addtional commentary about fasting on this thread. If anyone has further questions or wants to discuss something about fasting, you can hit me up on one of the fasting threads. I'm just happy that I appear to have found something that would help others as it appears to be helping me and wanted to share.

2/5- 233.8 holding steady after the Super Bowl is a win. Goal is 230 by end of next week.

I get where your coming from gigemtrev. Was down about 25 lbs last year and gained 17 back. Focusing this year on changing my diet, not being on a diet. Making better choices in foods (for the most part) and limiting my soda intake. Also making it a goal to move more each day (not just go to the gym).

First day checking in. Started cutting calories and working out Jan 2, didn't weigh myself then because my weight was all over the place, but if my own spreadsheet is right I probably lost around 8-9 pounds.
Starting weight is as of Feb 1

Starting Weight: 179
Weight Goal: 165
Other goals: get skrong.

Other metrics:

Jan 2 Deadlift: 95
Feb 5 Deadlift: 175
Feb 2 squat: 115

Really first time lifting weights, lost about 65 pounds doing mostly cardio a few years ago. Losing weight isn't much of an issue, i just wanna get skrong

Lots of folks making awesome progress!

Also I'll be out of the office next week, so need a volunteer to screengrab the spreadsheet and post on Tuesday.

who?mikejones said:

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1/2- 232
1/27- 227

Goal is 215 by end of March and 205 by end of August. When i hit that, i will make new goals.

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1/31- 224

Heading down

2/5-233.6

Slowly back in the loss column. Had an early morning so weighed myself about 1.5 hrs earlier than normal.

Saw 207.4 yesterday and 205.6 this morning, so I'm going to be conservative and say 207.
That's 18 pounds down since Jan 1, and 23 since sometime in December.

Over halfway now to my goal of 190. 18 down, 17 to go.

You guys are rough. If the scale stops on a number in my house, it gets counted the first time.

aggie appraiser said:

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You guys are rough. If the scale stops on a number in my house, it gets counted the first time.

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I don't want to get on tomorrow and have it say 2 pounds higher because of some temporary factor. I know my weight can fluctuate +/-5 pounds throughout the day. So I need to see consistency over several days before I'll "lock it in". Especially when Monday morning it read 210.

137.2 slowly getting back on track

195.4

Closing in on being down 3" off my waist

Great job.

2/7-232.6

Moving in the right direction! Down 2.6lbs this past week! Dream goal for this month is 225 and I'm at least on pace for that! Happiness would be anywhere in the 220s.

Personal info

• 31 Male / Married with 1 kid (9 weeks)
• Consultant that travels 30%

Starting point

• 6'2" @ 176#
• 2.84 w/kg FTP (Cat 4)

Goals

• Static weight while still enjoying dozen donut Saturdays
• 3.5 w/kg FTP (Cat 3)
• GFNY and Hotter than Hell
• Everest in Zwift

Motivation

• Donuts

Strategy

• IF
• Trainer M-F; century every other Saturday

How can we help

• Continue to inspire with the updates

How can I get added to the spreadsheet?

You can open the spreadsheet and add it or you can post it here and somebody will add it for you.

aggie appraiser said:

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Up 3.1 pounds since 1/23. Since I lost about 15 for the month, I'm not too concerned. I've had a plateau, or set point, at 230 for years and have had trouble breaking through. Starting Monday, maybe Sunday, I'm going to start another extended fast and break through to the 220's.

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Goodbye 230 pound set point. Hit 222 this morning after fasting for 132 hours. Down 13.3 pounds since 7 AM 2/3. I feel great and plan to continue this extended fast 1 or 2 more days.

I'm not on the spreadsheet. Just here to vent my frustration. Been eating healthy and working out for a month. Got a little movement, 194 down to 188(First 4 pounds went off right away so probably water weight). But the past week the scale has literally said 188 EVERY day. That's kind of amazing but frustrating because I know I've been healthy. Trying to keep that slither of hope to keep on trucking.