Trump Jan 6 sealed indictment delivered

133,490 Views | 1457 Replies | Last: 17 days ago by will25u
TXAggie2011
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In reply to fka ftc • 7:20p, 9/1/23
AG
fka ftc said:
They clearly indicated the POTUS is held accountable by impeachment, the press, the public etc.

Yet again, this is Uncharted territory, though SCOTUS makes clear that procedural rules / laws cannot be used to tie the POTUS up and prevent them from being effective.

This should be common sense but people have just a hard time understanding POTUS is not a normal US citizen whilst in office. The are singularly an entire branch of government.


SCOTUS says that the President has civil immunity if he acted within an authority granted by law, either then Constitution or by a statute. But if not, he doesn't have civil immunity.

All that business about impeachment, etc. refers to instances where he had civil immunity court. The Court was just saying there were other possible consequences for POTUS' behavior outside a court room.
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fka ftc
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12:07a, 9/2/23
We will ultimately see. I am fine being wrong, are you?

Nixon Fitzgerald is nearly entirely irrelevant to the situation at hand.
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TXAggie2011
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3:08p, 9/6/23
AG
Wrong thread
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Im Gipper
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4:20p, 9/11/23
Moving to recuse Chutkan!


I'm Gipper
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Im Gipper
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4:53p, 9/11/23
Here is the motion:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23963173-trump-recusal

I'm Gipper
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ChemEAg08
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4:54p, 9/11/23
AG
If allowed, OPs jimmys will certainly be rustled (even though he promised to vote for Trump over biden in 2024).
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Ag with kids
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In reply to Im Gipper • 8:45p, 9/11/23
AG
Im Gipper said:
Here is the motion:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23963173-trump-recusal
This motion is filed in HER court, right? So Chutkan has to rule on the motion for her to recuse herself?

What if she isn't recused? Is that something that could be brought up on appeal?
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Im Gipper
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In reply to Ag with kids • 9:47p, 9/11/23
Chutkan will rule on the motion. Generally, the denial can only be appealed after a final judgment (end of case).

Trump could, and likely will, file a petition for writ of Mandamus. But that requires a showing "clear and indisputable" right to relief. I don't think Trump can meet that burden here.

I'm Gipper
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Ellis Wyatt
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10:53p, 9/11/23
Chutkan is a horribly biased piece of ***** She should be disbarred. No question she should not be involved in anything related to Donald Trump.
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ThunderCougarFalconBird
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In reply to Im Gipper • 3:14a, 9/12/23
AG
This is a rare case where Trump has a "free" shot to fire off whatever the hell he pleases. The judge already hates him and anyone working on his behalf so recuse and mandamus away.

Just the start of this case existing in mandamus-land for the next 5+ years if you ask me.
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to ThunderCougarFalconBird • 6:35a, 9/12/23
seeking mandamus relief doesn't stay the trial court proceedings though. This issue definitely won't take 5 years to resolve. Nowhere near that.
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fka ftc
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In reply to Im Gipper • 8:13a, 9/12/23
Im Gipper said:
Chutkan will rule on the motion. Generally, the denial can only be appealed after a final judgment (end of case).

Trump could, and likely will, file a petition for writ of Mandamus. But that requires a showing "clear and indisputable" right to relief. I don't think Trump can meet that burden here.
Public comments regarding the guilt of the defendant does not meet that "burden". What does?
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fka ftc
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 8:15a, 9/12/23
BMX Bandit said:
seeking mandamus relief doesn't stay the trial court proceedings though. This issue definitely won't take 5 years to resolve. Nowhere near that.
Particular when the POTUS has absolute immunity and the rest as such violated no law. Makes sense.

Should be dismissed by end of day if justice still existed in this Country.
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TXAggie2011
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4:45p, 9/27/23
AG
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ThunderCougarFalconBird
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 4:49p, 9/27/23
AG
Interesting. Can a federal criminal lawyer explain the next step for trump in this situation (I.e. mandamus, direct appeal, or some other remedy)
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eric76
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In reply to fka ftc • 4:53p, 9/27/23
AG
fka ftc said:
BMX Bandit said:
seeking mandamus relief doesn't stay the trial court proceedings though. This issue definitely won't take 5 years to resolve. Nowhere near that.
Particular when the POTUS has absolute immunity and the rest as such violated no law. Makes sense.

Should be dismissed by end of day if justice still existed in this Country.
You must have not been paying attention. Trump lost the 2020 election. He no longer has the immunity he enjoyed as President.

Having once been elected President does not make anyone "King for Life".
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eric76
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In reply to ThunderCougarFalconBird • 4:56p, 9/27/23
AG
ThunderCougarFalconBird said:
Interesting. Can a federal criminal lawyer explain the next step for trump in this situation (I.e. mandamus, direct appeal, or some other remedy)
There are rules about when a judge must recuse himself. Unless a judge ignores one of those rules in not recusing himself, it is hard to imagine there being anything to appeal. It's not like a defendant gets to select the judge of his choice to hear his case.
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Maroon Dawn
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5:11p, 9/27/23
AG
Great to know an openly biased judge can refuse to recuse herself so she can make sure to "get him"

What great system of (D)ouble Standard Justice we have!
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Maroon Dawn
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In reply to eric76 • 5:12p, 9/27/23
AG
eric76 said:
ThunderCougarFalconBird said:
Interesting. Can a federal criminal lawyer explain the next step for trump in this situation (I.e. mandamus, direct appeal, or some other remedy)
There are rules about when a judge must recuse himself. Unless a judge ignores one of those rules in not recusing himself, it is hard to imagine there being anything to appeal. It's not like a defendant gets to select the judge of his choice to hear his case.


How about one that is openly hostile and biased against you? Is that asking too much?
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Im Gipper
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In reply to ThunderCougarFalconBird • 5:14p, 9/27/23
ThunderCougarFalconBird said:
Interesting. Can a federal criminal lawyer explain the next step for trump in this situation (I.e. mandamus, direct appeal, or some other remedy)


Because this is not a final judgment, there is no appeal available in this situation. Mandamus relief would be his only avenue here.

I'm Gipper
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ThunderCougarFalconBird
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In reply to Im Gipper • 5:33p, 9/27/23
AG
I figured as much. Just didn't know if there's something in FRCrP that would be different.
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TXAggie2011
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5:46p, 9/27/23
AG
He could choose to wait until after trial and include it in an appeal then if he's convicted. But I don't if it's Trump's M.O. to let this one go for the time being
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eric76
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In reply to Maroon Dawn • 7:07p, 9/27/23
AG
Maroon Dawn said:
eric76 said:
ThunderCougarFalconBird said:
Interesting. Can a federal criminal lawyer explain the next step for trump in this situation (I.e. mandamus, direct appeal, or some other remedy)
There are rules about when a judge must recuse himself. Unless a judge ignores one of those rules in not recusing himself, it is hard to imagine there being anything to appeal. It's not like a defendant gets to select the judge of his choice to hear his case.


How about one that is openly hostile and biased against you? Is that asking too much?
The judge is openly hostile and biased because you don't agree with the judge's rulings?
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Maroon Dawn
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In reply to eric76 • 8:34p, 9/27/23
AG
eric76 said:
Maroon Dawn said:
eric76 said:
ThunderCougarFalconBird said:
Interesting. Can a federal criminal lawyer explain the next step for trump in this situation (I.e. mandamus, direct appeal, or some other remedy)
There are rules about when a judge must recuse himself. Unless a judge ignores one of those rules in not recusing himself, it is hard to imagine there being anything to appeal. It's not like a defendant gets to select the judge of his choice to hear his case.


How about one that is openly hostile and biased against you? Is that asking too much?
The judge is openly hostile and biased because you don't agree with the judge's rulings?


Are you seriously ignoring all her very public rants against him and anyone she thinks supports him? And now she's going to pretend she wasn't hand picked for her bias against him? If you're serious about pretending to not be a Leftist, defending this sham isn't the way
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Ag with kids
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In reply to eric76 • 8:38p, 9/27/23
AG
eric76 said:
ThunderCougarFalconBird said:
Interesting. Can a federal criminal lawyer explain the next step for trump in this situation (I.e. mandamus, direct appeal, or some other remedy)
There are rules about when a judge must recuse himself. Unless a judge ignores one of those rules in not recusing himself, it is hard to imagine there being anything to appeal. It's not like a defendant gets to select the judge of his choice to hear his case.
If your judge tells lots of people you deserve to be in jail do you think you'd be getting a fair trial?
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Claverack
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In reply to Ag with kids • 9:28p, 9/27/23
Ag with kids said:
eric76 said:
ThunderCougarFalconBird said:
Interesting. Can a federal criminal lawyer explain the next step for trump in this situation (I.e. mandamus, direct appeal, or some other remedy)
There are rules about when a judge must recuse himself. Unless a judge ignores one of those rules in not recusing himself, it is hard to imagine there being anything to appeal. It's not like a defendant gets to select the judge of his choice to hear his case.
If your judge tells lots of people you deserve to be in jail do you think you'd be getting a fair trial?
She has predetermined the outcome of this trial. That will influence the latitude the prosecution and the defense receive during the trial and it will without doubt influence the jury.

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will25u
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1:52p, 10/5/23
Trump files Motion to Dismiss. Thread follows.

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Im Gipper
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In reply to will25u • 1:55p, 10/5/23
Outer perimeter is very broad!

He won't win at the trial court, but great argument for Circuit Court!

I'm Gipper
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to Im Gipper • 2:02p, 10/5/23
i believe the denial of a motion to dismiss based on an immunity defense can be taken up on an interlocutory appeal

(for the non-lawyers, usually you have to wait until the end of the case to appeal a ruling of the trial court. an interlocutory appeal allows you to immediately appeal a decision)
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aggiehawg
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2:04p, 10/5/23
AG
The DC case is connected with Jan 6th, right? He was still President then.I realize that Wright threw some BS about something Trump did in September of 2021 but the vast majority of the indictment occurred while he was POTUS.
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BMX Bandit
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In reply to aggiehawg • 2:05p, 10/5/23
Quote:
The DC case is connected with Jan 6th, right?
yes
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aggiehawg
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 2:12p, 10/5/23
AG
BMX Bandit said:
Quote:
The DC case is connected with Jan 6th, right?
yes
So let's talk about the immunity argument for a minute since he was POTUS at the time. He has the bully pulpit. He can ask questions about the integrity of the 2020 election as the leader of the Executive Branch. All of the agencies that manage our federal elections are in the Executive branch. As the head of that branch, doesn't that also fall under his duties?

At first blush, immunity appears to be a good defense. One that may resonate with appellate courts.

Thoughts?
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BMX Bandit
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2:12p, 10/5/23
full motion here:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258148/gov.uscourts.dcd.258148.74.0_1.pdf


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BMX Bandit
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In reply to aggiehawg • 2:17p, 10/5/23
i think its a very good argument because its such a broad protection. and the case law is that courts are supposed to give great weight to the executive on determining how far that outer perimeter goes. and while not limitless, it does go pretty far
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aggiehawg
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 2:21p, 10/5/23
AG
BMX Bandit said:
i think its a very good argument because its such a broad protection. and the case law is that courts are supposed to give great weight to the executive on determining how far that outer perimeter goes. and while not limitless, it does go pretty far
Agree.
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