Trump's OWN STAFFERS, these awful human beings and grifters..

admit under oath they knew they lost the election and that Trump knew he lost the election. But they pumped the fake "stop the steal" to raise money and create chaos.

Watch with your own eyes Trumpers:

Hey Barnes can you explain why Bill Stepien and Jason Miller and Hope Hicks all acknowledged losing in 2020? Did the deep state make them say it? https://t.co/u0vqtwenPk pic.twitter.com/kgSRc4DKVb

— Pedro L. Gonzalez (@emeriticus) August 2, 2023

OR... you could vote DeSantis and save America.

My guess is that most of the Trump diehards are too ideologically committed with their feelings to analyze object reality.

The reality is that Trump is going to be convicted of these felonies of January 6 indictments, and other felony crimes he has been charged with and will be charged with.

And Trump will either lose the GOP primary or the General Election in November 2024.

But many of his supporters will instead go down with the SS Trump- like a Japanese Captain on one of their flaming wreck aircraft carriers.

But hey, at least we can read on here for the next five years complaints about the Banana Republic.

RulesForTheeNotForMe said:

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My goodness Jack Smith is pathetic. By his standards, the entire MSM, DNC, FBI, CIA, DOJ would be indicted and serving multiple consecutive life sentences for all the KNOWN lies they spread about Trump & Russia immediately following the 2016 election, all the way through the 2020 election and beyond.

The entire Democratic platform is built on KNOWN lies that deceive mental midgets to believe Daddy Government will fix all their problems.

Waiting for Comey, Schiff, Swalwell, McCabe, Mueller, Weissman, etc. to all be indicted and charged with their Conspiracy.....

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Uh, is there any difference in your mind between the sitting Chief Executive President of the United States under the Constitution and the media?!

other than that- great analogy.

agz win said:

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Donald's hemorrhoids flaring today.

BREAKING: Donald Trump Indicted By Grand Jury In Jan. 6 Case

Law360 (August 1, 2023, 5:13 PM EDT) -- Former President Donald Trump was indicted Tuesday by a Washington, D.C., federal grand jury for his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results and allegedly inciting the deadly Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

The indictment comes roughly two weeks after Trump announced on his social media site Truth Social that he had been contacted by special counsel John L. "Jack" Smith and advised that he was a target in the Jan. 6-related grand jury investigation. The probe has been underway in the nation's capital since at least May 2022 and has pulled in several witnesses who were once in Trump's innermost circle.

Minutes prior to his indictment, Trump said on Truth Social that the charges are a result of prosecutorial misconduct. "Why didn't they do this 2.5 years ago? Why did they wait so long? Because they wanted to put it right in the middle of my campaign."

This newest indictment deepens Trump's legal perils as he seeks to win a second term in the White House. The former president is also facing separate indictments in New York state court and Florida federal court, and potential Georgia state court charges as well. He has pled not guilty in the New York and Florida cases.

During the D.C. grand jury's investigation, led at the end by Smith, the U.S. Department of Justice called former Vice President Mike Pence, former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone, former Trump political adviser Stephen Miller and others to testify. The department also issued subpoenas to and interviewed state and county officials in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin key battleground states President Joe Biden won in the 2020 presidential election.

Trump's charges also come roughly seven months after the U.S. House of Representatives' select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack unanimously voted in December 2022 to refer the former president to the Justice Department for criminal charges of obstructing Congress, conspiring to defraud the U.S., making false material statements and aiding and abetting an insurrection.

The committee's decision was the culmination of an 18-month investigation that included private depositions and public testimony by former Trump administration and campaign officials about his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election and stay in power. The committee presented some of its findings during a series of 10 public hearings between June and December 2022, and released its final report online at the end of the year.

It is unclear to what extent, if any, the panel's criminal recommendation influenced the grand jury investigations.

An obstruction charge, 18 U.S.C. Section 1512(c), seeks to hold those who corruptly obstruct, influence or impede any official proceeding, or attempt to, and is punishable by 20 years imprisonment. The Justice Department has pursued obstruction charges against hundreds of Jan. 6 rioters, and a D.C. Circuit panel in April held the statute can be applied to congressional proceedings, including the certification of electors. The court's reading of the statute will likely be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Defrauding the U.S. and making false material statements are both punishable by up to five years' imprisonment.

Trump has been the subject of several lawsuits by former U.S. Capitol Police officers and lawmakers seeking to hold him liable for the 2021 insurrection lawsuits the D.C. Circuit hasn't yet ruled on, but seemed doubtful the former president would be immune from.

The latest lawsuit filed on the eve of the attack's two-year anniversary aims to hold the former president accountable for the death of Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who died after pro-Trump rioters sprayed him in the face with bear spray.

Trump has also been indicted in New York state court for allegedly falsifying business records related to hush money payments to adult film actress Stormy Daniels during the 2016 presidential campaign. He pled not guilty to the charges in April.

In June, a Florida federal grand jury returned a 37-count indictment accusing the former president of hoarding national defense documents detailing other countries' military operations and nuclear secrets. He and former aide Walt Nauta are also charged with obstruction for allegedly trying to hide the documents from prosecutors.

BREAKING: Donald Trump Indicted By Grand Jury In Jan. 6 Case - Law360

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It is all BS. After Antifa and the rise of the big city criminal politics crime wave with no effort to try them…..then this is all BS.

How does one pick a jury of his peers?

LegalDrugPusher said:

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Wrec86 Ag said:

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agAngeldad said:

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How many times can they indicte a person?

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How many crimes can a person commit?

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Trump hasn't committed a single crime

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Serious question- how can any person not named Trump know if he has committed a single crime?!

You don't even know what evidence the US and state and local governments have against him.

NO ONE other than Trump knows what he actually did. Certainly Pence thinks he may have committed crimes.

Anyone claiming he is either "absolutely guilty" or "never committed any crime" with over 100 charges is just someone who has ideological blinders on.

this is why in the United States there are grand juries, indictments, trials, and jury verdicts. correct?

The Green Dragon said:

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Im Gipper said:

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Quote:

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2. Unless he flees, he's going to prison. We can all write him letters.

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Find a new fantasy!

Trump is not going to spend one minute in jail!

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Lolz. 100% this guy was posting what he was told to post last year "a president has the authority to declassify documents".

When you gonna learn buddy? The left is out for blood.

Trump is going to prison.

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There is pretty much zero chance that Trump will go to prison if convicted.

Not sure if anyone is actually reading the indictments and discussing the legal case other than claiming "it's all a setup of the deep state!!!'"

but if you do take the actual time to read the indictment (here)

Trump's Third Arrest and Indictment

There are SIX other co-conspirators.

Once one of them flips on Trump to save themselves, it's game over.

even if one of the six co-conspirators doesn't turn on him, with that Jamaican Obama judge and a jury pool in DC

Trump is going to be convicted of felonies.

now it's up to the GOP voters- do you go down to abysmal defeat and lose the Congress as well as the
White House (again!) with Trump?

or choose something different?

ummmm say what? Those are just answers to questions concluding they thought pursuing it would likely go no where.

NOT that they believed the election wasn't stolen. In fact there wasn't one portion of those segments that even discussed their own feeling if the election was stolen or not.

Wrec86 Ag said:

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agAngeldad said:

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How many times can they indicte a person?

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How many crimes can a person commit?

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As many as you want if you are a democrat.

Sheesh, there you go with that logical talking again. You know, you really need to just believe what people you completely agree with tell you. Acting all uppity with critical thinking skills and logic speak.

I watched the link of the tweet

Gordo14 said:

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I'm sure I'll get a lot of responses about Hunter Biden or something. Hunter Biden is a **** head. He has committed crimes. He deserves to be punished accordingly. Still, nothing he has done is even within an order of magnitude of what is laid out in this indictment.

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Wow

I have a legit question for the die hard Trump supporters. Several of you have stated you will support the Republican nominee, whoever it is, but what if the Republican Party is forced to take him off the ticket because of a conviction? If Trump still is "running" as a write-in candidate... what would you do?

These people are going to be spending millions in legal bills- and deservedly so. I wonder if Jeffrey Clark is going to jail for what he tried to do at the Department of Justice.

Co-Conspirator 1 is former Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani.
Among other things, the indictment quotes from a voicemail that Co-Conspirator 1 left "for a United States Senator" on January 6, 2021. The quotes in the indictment match quotes from Giuliani's call intended for GOP Sen. Tommy Tuberville, as reported by CNN and other outlets.

Co-Conspirator 2 is former Trump lawyer John Eastman.
Among other things, the indictment says Co-Conspirator 2 "circulated a two-page memorandum" with a plan for Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the 2020 election while presiding over the Electoral College certification on January 6, 2021. The indictment quotes from the memo, and those quotes match a two-page memo that Eastman wrote, as reported and published by CNN.

Co-Conspirator 3 is former Trump lawyer Sidney Powell.
The indictment says Co-Conspirator 3 "filed a lawsuit against the Governor of Georgia" on November 25, 2020, alleging "massive election fraud" and that the lawsuit was "dismissed" on December 7, 2020. These dates and quotations match the federal lawsuit that Powell filed against Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp.

Co-Conspirator 4 is former Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark.
The indictment identifies Co-Conspirator 4 as "a Justice Department official." The indictment also quotes an email that a top Justice Department official sent to Clark, rebutting Clark's attempts to use the department to overturn the election. The quotes in that email directly match quotes in an email sent to Clark, according to a Senate report about how Trump tried to weaponize the Justice Department in 2020.

Co-Conspirator 5 is pro-Trump lawyer Kenneth Chesebro.
Among other things, the indictment references an "email memorandum" that Co-Conspirator 5 "sent" to Giuliani on December 13, 2020, about the fake electors plot. The email sender, recipient, date, and content are a direct match for an email that Chesebro sent to Giuliani, according to a copy of the email made public by the House select committee that investigated January 6.

Phatbob said:

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I have a legit question for the die hard Trump supporters. Several of you have stated you will support the Republican nominee, whoever it is, but what if the Republican Party is forced to take him off the ticket because of a conviction? If Trump still is "running" as a write-in candidate... what would you do?

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Why would the GOP be forced to take him off the ticket?

you can be convicted of felonies and still be the President of the USA unless it's for sedition or treason.

none of the Founding Fathers could have imagined a President such as Trump.

If it is just as simple as a Vice-President "choosing the next President" as Trump and his cronies claim ...

why didn't Albert Gore Junior choose himself as the next President back in 2001?! He only lost by 538 votes across the entire country! And it was legally contested.

Ags77 said:

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JFABNRGR said:

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Ags77 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Ags77 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Even DeSantis thinks the charges against Trump are bogus and full of corruption. He doesn't share the opinion of you Biden voters who think everything being brought against Trump is legit while the Bidens avoiding any prosecution clearly means justice is prevailing.

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But that doesn't address my question. Assuming you, DeSantis, and many others think it's not legit, if a jury convicts him in any of these cases, is it time to turn to DeSantis ? A young talented disciplined candidate with no legal issues ?

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DeSantis is my #1 choice and would be regardless of the charges against Trump. At the same time I can also acknowledge the mistrust in our current hyper partisan government that people like you voted in gleefully.

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Ok.... so I know YOU are behind DeSantis in 2024, but I asked the Trump supporters. If Trump is convicted and gets a sentence with no prison, would those supporters get behind DeSantis.

DeSantis 2024

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Dude. Assuming current elections are legitimate and Desantis is the white knight, has become like groundhog day to you. Please wake up!

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So no answer ? Or are you also Desantis 2024 ?

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Until righteousness returns to our government and lady justice is restored to blindness it does not matter who the gop president is.

The corruption has grown so deep it has overtaken the office of the presidency. Your either going to submit to joining them or sacrifice your life/family like Trump, Flynn, dozens of others.

We are at a time to be like Noah and focus on ourselves and what we can affect locally like school boards until the return of Christ.

to me, its when someone tried to deliver these "fake electors" to pence in the capitol that this rises to potentially criminal. however, when its a former president/current candidate, I think you need unequivocal theories on crimes and clear evidence of it.

i just don't see that here based on what I read in the indictment.

LMCane said:

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gonemaroon said:

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ummmm say what? Those are just answers to questions concluding they thought pursuing it would likely go no where.

NOT that they believed the election wasn't stolen. In fact there wasn't one portion of those segments that even discussed their own feeling if the election was stolen or not.

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You are just wrong.

Did you ACTUALLY READ THE INDICTMENT?!

There are 45 pages of information about how many times Trump and his co-conspirators were told BY CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS that he had lost the election.

.

Trump himself could admit the truth in court (as he likely will in a plea deal) and these Trump supporters will still claim Trump didn't do anything wrong.

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THIS!!!

I can just hear 'em now.

"I always knew that Trump was a RINO!"

" I always knew that Trump was Deep State!"

nortex97 said:

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Well how many republican's are objecting and how many are really taking any action?

Quote:

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why didn't Albert Gore Junior choose himself as the next President back in 2001?! He only lost by 538 votes across the entire country! And it was legally contested.

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Because it would not have changed the result under the 12th Amendment, that's why. He has said so himself.

JFABNRGR said:

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nortex97 said:

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Well how many republican's are objecting and how many are really taking any action?

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None, because the message is crystal clear and they're all cowering in gutless fear.

B-1 83 said:

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Shouldn't that Count #2 be used against those who sought to stop the Kavanaugh confirmation ?

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Sshhh! That's [D]ifferent.

Remember, always accuse others for what you're guilty of.

Can't believe how many times I've gone to bat for that administration only to now learn that they all knew it was a sham. Fool me once...

LMCane said:

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No way in h@ll that Trump avoids a conviction with this Judge: female; Jamaican; Obama appointee; who already made rulings against him.

No way! Trump is going to be a convicted Felon soon enough. The only hope for him is a pardon from President DeSantis.

What to know about Tanya S. Chutkan, the judge overseeing Trump's Jan. 6 case

U.S. District Judge Tanya S. Chutkan is set to oversee former President Trump's case involving his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

The big picture: Chutkan has previously dealt with Trump, denying his 2021 motion to halt records from being turned over to the Jan. 6 committee, writing, "Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not president."

Chutkan's background
Born in Jamaica, Chutkan received her bachelor's degree in economics from George Washington University and graduated from the University of Pennsylvania Law School.

She worked in private practice for three years before joining the District of Columbia Public Defender Service, where she worked as a trial attorney and supervisor for over a decade.

She then joined the law firm Boies, Schiller, & Flexner LLP and specialized in litigation and white-collar criminal defense for 12 years.

Former President Obama appointed Chutkan to the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia in 2014.

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There will be a JURY that decides if Trump is guilty or not, not a judge.

TheEternalPessimist said:

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Ags77 said:

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RGLAG85 said:

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Ags77 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Even DeSantis thinks the charges against Trump are bogus and full of corruption. He doesn't share the opinion of you Biden voters who think everything being brought against Trump is legit while the Bidens avoiding any prosecution clearly means justice is prevailing.

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But that doesn't address my question. Assuming you, DeSantis, and many others think it's not legit, if a jury convicts him in any of these cases, is it time to turn to DeSantis ? A young talented disciplined candidate with no legal issues ?

DeSantis 2024

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You constantly pull back the curtain on who you truly are. I'll answer your question with a question, do you think any Republican operative can get a fair federal trial in DC? Did you even General Flynn?

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Who I am ? What ?

To answer your question , yes I believe in our judicial system and I think trump can get a fair trial in DC. I also believe Trump will get a fair trial with a Trump judge in Florida. It either works or it doesn't.

DeSantis 2024

And didn't General Flynn plead guilty ?

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You are not helping me or anyone think DeSantis is a viable choice anymore......

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DeSantis is a viable choice.

The Democrat underground playbook is obvious. Have posters flood message boards. Have them mimic the dominate candidate which for Texags is pro DeSantis. Then these "moderate" posters will tear into Trump relentlessly and stretch the smear beyond reasonable amounts. You are playing a game with ENORMOUS stakes, don't think it is just casual people posting their thoughts.

They were just discussing the indictment on CSPAN, and gave a brief glimpse of the document.
I think I misread, but it scrolled over what LOOKED like the wording: "Conspiracy to obstruct an attempt at obstruction"
Huh?

FriscoKid said:

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You are a lawyer and you should be concerned because people should have an unbiased court to present facts. Your liberal bias is so ****ing excited about getting Trump on free speech or a document dispute and you are willing to ignore the bribery of our president for millions of dollars that doesn't serve our country.

Do better. The law should not be a political process (unless you want to live in South America)

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People who see Trump for the person he really is are following and promoting a political process. Trump wasn't shy about acting out loud, and that is his problem now. Anything you think or wish about Biden is a completely different topic and there are plenty of threads about that. Trying to mix the two topics is just deflection about Trump and it fails consistently. Take Biden to court, indict him if you think there's a real case. But that doesn't negate Trump's indictments one iota. As predictable, the attacks on Jack Smith come fast and furious now. But that's also futile, and another deflection. A JURY of U.S. citizens will decide Trump's guilt or innocence....Not Merrick, not Jack Smith, not even the Judge presiding over the case. And certainly not anyone on this forum. Oh you can kick and scream and claim "injustice". It won't matter to the jury.

Quote:

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It won't matter to the jury.

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We know it won't matter to a jury of your peers.

pdc093 said:

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They were just discussing the indictment on CSPAN, and gave a brief glimpse of the document.
I think I misread, but it scrolled over what LOOKED like the wording: "Conspiracy to obstruct an attempt at obstruction"
Huh?

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it says

Obstruction of, and Attempt to Obstruct, an Official Proceeding-18 U.S.C. 1512(c)(2), 2)

Opalka said:

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LMCane said:

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No way in h@ll that Trump avoids a conviction with this Judge: female; Jamaican; Obama appointee; who already made rulings against him.

No way! Trump is going to be a convicted Felon soon enough. The only hope for him is a pardon from President DeSantis.

What to know about Tanya S. Chutkan, the judge overseeing Trump's Jan. 6 case

U.S. District Judge Tanya S. Chutkan is set to oversee former President Trump's case involving his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

The big picture: Chutkan has previously dealt with Trump, denying his 2021 motion to halt records from being turned over to the Jan. 6 committee, writing, "Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not president."

Chutkan's background
Born in Jamaica, Chutkan received her bachelor's degree in economics from George Washington University and graduated from the University of Pennsylvania Law School.

She worked in private practice for three years before joining the District of Columbia Public Defender Service, where she worked as a trial attorney and supervisor for over a decade.

She then joined the law firm Boies, Schiller, & Flexner LLP and specialized in litigation and white-collar criminal defense for 12 years.

Former President Obama appointed Chutkan to the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia in 2014.

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There will be a JURY that decides if Trump is guilty or not, not a judge.

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Whatever lib, a DC jury? Go off and find some more ****** crimes to rationalize.