Virginia Catholic Bishop: 'No One' Is Transgender

30,987 Views | 707 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by ramblin_ag02
PacifistAg
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In reply to Redstone • 10:38p, 12/17/21
AG
I've already provided a clear refutation of Bailey's work, which is not widely accepted. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that he's a leftist. There are plenty of bigots on the left too. It's not just a "right" thing. Don't worry, you have friends across the spectrum. As for Shrier, her entire work is built on the myth of ROGD, which again, has been thoroughly refuted. And Bari Weiss...goodness, you are just trotting out all the names who peddle junk science. And we've already discussed her article and how she completely misrepresented what those doctors are saying.

You're just bouncing now forcing me to play whack-a-mole with your nonsense. In the end, your entire argument hinges on ROGD and AGP, which are both pseudoscience. This has already been detailed. You're just recycling the same worn out, already refuted, nonsense. When they get refuted, you move the goalposts, then come right back around to your same arguments.

Btw, the young person I am working with is so thrilled after their first HRT injection. Thought you'd like to know. Happy, healthy, and ready to go even though there are bigots out there, such as yourself, who will always use junk science to attack them.
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PacifistAg
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10:41p, 12/17/21
AG
Btw, in your typical intellectual cowardice, you've refused to answer a simple question: why do you think you know better for a child with regards to their medical treatment than the child, their parents, and their doctor? Why do you believe you have the right to interfere with the internationally-recognized medical treatments of complete strangers?

This will be my last question to you. I know I said that before, but this is entirely fruitless, because you are entirely dishonest and unwilling to actually listen. But I am curious as to how you'd answer why you think you have the right to interfere with the medical decisions of others, especially when those treatment plans are endorsed by every major medical association.
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Redstone
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11:02p, 12/17/21
AG
Perhaps the reason for the merry-go-round is your repetitive pointing and sputtering at MANY first-hand testimonies, at MDs who once held your positions detailing significant regret, and at a prominent researcher you dislike.

"Discredited" because …. You say so.

Which is fine, really, and much less harmful than advocating sterilizing hormones for children.
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Redstone
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11:10p, 12/17/21
AG
To generalize on your question, every single MD in the country could support abortion and I would oppose.
Conflict of visions, and assumptions, as we've discussed:
Is there a Reason that gifted us moral reason, to which we should conform?
Or, is the self "sovereign?"
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Redstone
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11:12p, 12/17/21
AG
Quote:
the young person I am working with

Child, to whom you advocated hormone "treatments" that may or may not sterilize

I again ask readers to pray earnestly for this child.
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AGC
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In reply to PacifistAg • 7:48a, 12/18/21
AG
PacifistAg said:
I've already provided a clear refutation of Bailey's work, which is not widely accepted. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that he's a leftist. There are plenty of bigots on the left too. It's not just a "right" thing. Don't worry, you have friends across the spectrum. As for Shrier, her entire work is built on the myth of ROGD, which again, has been thoroughly refuted. And Bari Weiss...goodness, you are just trotting out all the names who peddle junk science. And we've already discussed her article and how she completely misrepresented what those doctors are saying.

You're just bouncing now forcing me to play whack-a-mole with your nonsense. In the end, your entire argument hinges on ROGD and AGP, which are both pseudoscience. This has already been detailed. You're just recycling the same worn out, already refuted, nonsense. When they get refuted, you move the goalposts, then come right back around to your same arguments.

Btw, the young person I am working with is so thrilled after their first HRT injection. Thought you'd like to know. Happy, healthy, and ready to go even though there are bigots out there, such as yourself, who will always use junk science to attack them.


Please stop using people as pawns. A child's suffering isn't something to poke at others on the forum with, no matter the path they take to try to resolve it.

Edit (for clarification): you don't talk about people you bring to church or Bible study for the first time and each Sunday they come again in theology threads. It's just transitioning that you brag about helping people into. That's what I find so discordant.
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PacifistAg
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4:15a, 12/19/21
AG
https://www.them.us/story/trans-youth-hormone-therapy-study-depression?utm_campaign=likeshopme&client_service_id=31178&utm_social_type=owned&utm_brand=them&service_user_id=1.78e+16&utm_content=instagram-bio-link&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=social&client_service_name=them.&supported_service_name=instagram_publishing

Quote:
The study, published Tuesday in the peer-reviewed Journal of Adolescent Health, is the first large-scale research regarding the mental health effects of hormone therapy for transgender and nonbinary youth, with a sample of over 9,000 respondents between the ages of 13 and 24.

The survey, conducted by researchers at the Trevor Project, a crisis support organization for LGBTQ+ youth, found that trans people under 18 who had sought out and received hormone therapy were nearly 40% less likely to report recent depression and a past-year suicide attempt than those who wanted hormone treatment but could not receive it.

I know some don't like hearing about the positive effects of HRT and trans kids that are mentally healthier and less likely to harm themselves, but this seemed relevant here.
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nortex97
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In reply to PacifistAg • 5:35a, 12/19/21
AG
The Trevor Project is probably not a reliable source of scientific data/analyses on HRT. I certainly wouldn't trust this Hollywood organization to hire real, unbiased scientists to study the issue and produce an unbiased analyses without pre-determining their conclusions.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to nortex97 • 5:53a, 12/19/21
AG
Quote:
The study, published Tuesday in the peer-reviewed Journal of Adolescent Health

Look, I know fewer trans kids turning to self-harm disappoints you, but this is at least in a peer-reviewed academic journal. Feel free to critique the methodology though. No study should be immune from scrutiny, hence the peer review.

But, let's be honest. You aren't dismissive of the study/survey because of The Trevor Project. You are dismissive because you don't like the results. The study could have been conducted by the Family Research Council, and you'd have still dismissed any result that pointed to positive results of trans youth and HRT.
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nortex97
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In reply to PacifistAg • 6:36a, 12/19/21
AG
PacifistAg said:
Quote:
The study, published Tuesday in the peer-reviewed Journal of Adolescent Health

Look, I know fewer trans kids turning to self-harm disappoints you, but this is at least in a peer-reviewed academic journal. Feel free to critique the methodology though. No study should be immune from scrutiny, hence the peer review.

But, let's be honest. You aren't dismissive of the study/survey because of The Trevor Project. You are dismissive because you don't like the results. The study could have been conducted by the Family Research Council, and you'd have still dismissed any result that pointed to positive results of trans youth and HRT.
No, again to be honest, I didn't (and still haven't/have no interest to) read the study/link you provided at all. The Trevor Project being the sponsor is really about all I needed to know. I looked them up, and was unsurprised by the wikipedia information. And no, as to your first attempt to call me a liar, I am not disappointed kids are not self-harming themselves.

I don't think there's a reason based on my credulity as to the source of your preferred 'science' that I should be twice impugned as a liar. That is silly. Try to do better, please.

There are other viewpoints, often quite informed, on the hazards of what you seem to champion. No, that is not a scientific peer reviewed paper, as I don't feel a need to even look for one for you as a counterweight to the Trevor Project, but it does contain links to more data. More should seek disparate opinions, imho, beyond their personal predilections/beliefs.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to nortex97 • 10:08a, 12/19/21
AG
Quote:
More should seek disparate opinions, imho, beyond their personal predilections/beliefs.

Says this as he refuses to even glance at a peer-reviewed study in a scientific journal with over 9,000 subjects because it produces results he doesn't like.

I'm thrilled that that these trans kids are healthier and less likely to harm themselves because they received the care they need. I'm sorry if that upsets you.
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nortex97
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In reply to PacifistAg • 11:53a, 12/19/21
AG
PacifistAg said:
Quote:
More should seek disparate opinions, imho, beyond their personal predilections/beliefs.

Says this as he refuses to even glance at a peer-reviewed study in a scientific journal with over 9,000 subjects because it produces results he doesn't like.

I'm really sorry that these trans kids are healthier and less likely to harm themselves. I know that really upsets you.
Please stop snidely referring to me as lying about wishing ill on kids. That is disgusting and anti-Christ, to paraphrase your own accusations against others.

Yes, I am not willing to read/take anything they put out seriously. I'm sure you feel the same way about anything published by National Review or the Cato Institute. Further, we know the 'science' is sloppy at best, and closer to Middle Ages alchemy; frankly it's just not interesting to see how twisted a group such as your chosen 'peer reviewed' paper could be endorsed.

Have a blessed day.
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Ag_of_08
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In reply to nortex97 • 8:39p, 12/20/21
AG
So no science will ever be good enough for you 9f it's a group not aligned to your world view? Even if it holds quantitative datum? Even the Vatican doesn't preach that, I'm just curious.
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nortex97
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In reply to Ag_of_08 • 5:46a, 12/21/21
AG
Ag_of_08 said:
So no science will ever be good enough for you 9f it's a group not aligned to your world view? Even if it holds quantitative datum? Even the Vatican doesn't preach that, I'm just curious.
Look at their Wikipedia page. Trusting something on this topic they put together would be akin to trusting the Chinese military running a virus research lab in Wuhan. It's an organization that exists to convince more people about it's core values/beliefs, aka a think tank.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Ag_of_08 • 6:20a, 12/21/21
AG
Ag_of_08 said:
So no science will ever be good enough for you 9f it's a group not aligned to your world view? Even if it holds quantitative datum? Even the Vatican doesn't preach that, I'm just curious.

It's why they'll trot out Blanchard/Bailey/Littman/Shrier despite the fundamental methodological flaws in their work...they agree with the conclusions. Heck, they likely haven't even read those works. They know the results they are open to hearing, so once they hear them, it matters not how flawed the actual study was. When the study produces results they don't like, they simply ignore the study and will cling to "but it was the Trevor Project!"

It's fine to be skeptical based on superficial matters like that, but that doesn't make the study invalid. Ironically, it's trans people who have dug into the studies whose results are negative. We haven't been afraid to, and that's how the glaring problems with their works are found. But instead, they'll choose to remain in a position rooted in ignorance because they simply do not like the results that challenge their preconceived notions. It doesn't matter that the Trevor Project was tied to it. It could have been any other entity, and if it produced the same results, they'd simply find a new excuse to cling to.
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nortex97
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In reply to PacifistAg • 7:47a, 12/21/21
AG
PacifistAg said:
Ag_of_08 said:
So no science will ever be good enough for you 9f it's a group not aligned to your world view? Even if it holds quantitative datum? Even the Vatican doesn't preach that, I'm just curious.

It's why they'll trot out Blanchard/Bailey/Littman/Shrier despite the fundamental methodological flaws in their work...they agree with the conclusions. Heck, they likely haven't even read those works. They know the results they are open to hearing, so once they hear them, it matters not how flawed the actual study was. When the study produces results they don't like, they simply ignore the study and will cling to "but it was the Trevor Project!"

It's fine to be skeptical based on superficial matters like that, but that doesn't make the study invalid. Ironically, it's trans people who have dug into the studies whose results are negative. We haven't been afraid to, and that's how the glaring problems with their works are found. But instead, they'll choose to remain in a position rooted in ignorance because they simply do not like the results that challenge their preconceived notions. It doesn't matter that the Trevor Project was tied to it. It could have been any other entity, and if it produced the same results, they'd simply find a new excuse to cling to.
That's a lot of 'they.' I'm right here, hero, and I don't need some confusing plural pronoun.

You really do seem to have your feelings hurt that I won't take the time to read your propaganda/pseudo-science. LOL, I don't care/am not bothered, similarly, that you have studiously ignored the links I have provided. No need to be so 'thin skinned' (I've been accused of this for some reason as well on this thread).
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Redstone
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10:53a, 12/21/21
AG
Positions are at this point clear. A long post was zapped of its energy as I came across the New York magazine cover story, so just some thoughts..

Look at the cover image of the new New York magazine and ponder. I encourage others to read this (very highly sympathetic) account as you consider our present cultural zeitgeist.

Perhaps dozens of failed surgical hours, and still the "*****" refuses to cooperate, tells us something important - as does the hysteria of "affirm, or you support suicide" ... (Does Cluster B have explanatory power? Just asking.)

Think about the young children being pumped full of hormones and puberty blockers, confused young women terrified of puberty (an extremely old and common phenomenon) with social media "influencers" eager to do so…..the women, coaches, parents looking at "Lia Thomas" smashing record upon record, terrified to speak out, though that will happen at some point....

This will end eventually, after much damage.

Our present cultural zeitgeist seems committed to conquering Nature through technology, defying limits, no matter what. Sexual Revolution of this type is technological revolution applied to the body, and it will fail.
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Redstone
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11:18a, 12/21/21
AG

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Redstone
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11:22a, 12/21/21
AG
Doesn't this vivid image convey much?

To me, there is a (vaguely threatening) desire to capture an inherent "is-ness" …… massively contrasted with a natural, effortless reality of being.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Redstone • 11:23a, 12/21/21
AG
Redstone said:
Doesn't this vivid image convey much?

To me, there is a (vaguely threatening) desire to capture an inherent "is-ness" …… massively contrasted with a natural, effortless reality of being.

You've said so many mind-bogglingly idiotic things on this thread. This may be the cream of the crop.
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Redstone
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11:25a, 12/21/21
AG
Evidently some extremely obvious realities are mind-bogglingly idiotic to others.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Redstone • 11:27a, 12/21/21
AG
Redstone said:
Evidently some extremely obvious realities are mind-bogglingly idiotic to others.

You've said or presented nothing factual on this thread. You've merely shared debunked pseudoscience. But we get it. You have no clue what you're talking about. I'm sorry HRT lowers the risk of self-harm. I know that bothers you and others here.
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Redstone
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11:28a, 12/21/21
AG
Is the highest paid "female" CEO (Sirius) really a woman? Or, "women's Jeopardy" winner?

The record breaking "women's" swimmer Mr. Thomas?

Bruce Jenner, a huge 70s ladies man and literally one of the most accomplished male athletes of all time?

Really? Idiotic is a great descriptor!
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Fashionably Late
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9:00a, 12/22/21
I would have much more sympathy if they said "Im a male who feels weird about their body and it makes me feel better if I behave like a woman", I couldn't understand that, but no harm no foul.

Listen kids, this is why you should pump your bodies full of hormones and consider cutting your genitalia off is a bridge too far.
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AGC
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In reply to PacifistAg • 10:26a, 12/22/21
AG
PacifistAg said:
Redstone said:
Evidently some extremely obvious realities are mind-bogglingly idiotic to others.

You've said or presented nothing factual on this thread. You've merely shared debunked pseudoscience. But we get it. You have no clue what you're talking about. I'm sorry HRT lowers the risk of self-harm. I know that bothers you and others here.


This is a cruel post. None of us who disagree want gender dysphoric children to hurt themselves or commit suicide. I doubt your pastor or therapist would approve of your continued insistence on asserting that.

If you're going to accuse others of being habitual liars you need to own up to this now and stop. It's hypocritical and petty.
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diehard03
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In reply to AGC • 11:29a, 12/22/21
Edit: AGC made an edit and this edit to remain on track with the logic presented.
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ramblin_ag02
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12:42p, 12/22/21
AG
May start a new thread, but hate cluttering the board with redundant topics.

Anyway, beginning about 3 years ago, I have noticed a lot of young people that are trans. I'm talking half a dozen, and I don't really know that many people. We're talking more than 10% of the people under 20 that I know. In that same time I know 0 trans adults IRL, and no adult in my circle has transitioned. Do I have an unusual sample, or is anyone else noticed similar patterns among friends and family?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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AGC
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In reply to diehard03 • 1:08p, 12/22/21
AG
Received. Sorry.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 1:12p, 12/22/21
AG
ramblin_ag02 said:
May start a new thread, but hate cluttering the board with redundant topics.

Anyway, beginning about 3 years ago, I have noticed a lot of young people that are trans. I'm talking half a dozen, and I don't really know that many people. We're talking more than 10% of the people under 20 that I know. In that same time I know 0 trans adults IRL, and no adult in my circle has transitioned. Do I have an unusual sample, or is anyone else noticed similar patterns among friends and family?
I know quite a few kids who are transitioning, but none of them are related or know each other. It makes sense, though, if you think about it. Kids are able to be more open about this, as it's safer to come out in our society. Kids tend to gravitate towards those who are similar to them, so kids who are struggling with their gender identity will likely know of other kids who are struggling. This makes it appear as clusters, when it reality it's just people with a commonality that brings them together. Especially when what brings them together is something that'll result in a lot of hatred and verbal attacks.

Some will claim it's "social contagion", but there's zero evidence to support this claim.
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ramblin_ag02
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In reply to PacifistAg • 1:34p, 12/22/21
AG
Yeah, it would make sense that transitioning would be easier for teens than older adults. I'm just somewhat surprised by the numbers. Do you think there could be an element of youthful rebellion and "experimentation" to this? It's just hard to wrap my head around the underlying % of transgender being that high.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 1:38p, 12/22/21
AG
I wouldn't think so. At least not among those who have some sort of medical intervention. I think it's more likely to see that among the androgynous/gender non-conforming crowd who simply have a fluid expression, but have no dysphoria-induced need to have medical intervention.
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ramblin_ag02
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In reply to PacifistAg • 1:40p, 12/22/21
AG
Ok, maybe I'd should be more specific. None of the youths that I know have taken hormones or had surgery to my knowledge. They have all changed their pronouns, names, and manner of dress.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 1:44p, 12/22/21
AG
If it were merely an act of rebellion, you'd see high detransition rates. On average, only approximately 3% experience some form of regret, but those may not even detransition. According to recent research, approximately 90% of that VERY small number that do detransition do so because of pressure from family, work, school, or society in general. Roughly .4% of all trans people detransition because they felt transition wasn't right for them.

https://www.gendergp.com/detransition-facts/
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to AGC • 1:44p, 12/22/21
AGC said:
PacifistAg said:
Redstone said:
Evidently some extremely obvious realities are mind-bogglingly idiotic to others.

You've said or presented nothing factual on this thread. You've merely shared debunked pseudoscience. But we get it. You have no clue what you're talking about. I'm sorry HRT lowers the risk of self-harm. I know that bothers you and others here.


This is a cruel post. None of us who disagree want gender dysphoric children to hurt themselves or commit suicide. I doubt your pastor or therapist would approve of your continued insistence on asserting that.

If you're going to accuse others of being habitual liars you need to own up to this now and stop. It's hypocritical and petty.


Pretty sure she's saying sorry that hormones and transitioning help and that such treatments bother you.

My problem is that I don't see any actual support for trans people from your side of the argument. You don't want them to be able to be out and public with who they are. You don't want them to transition. You seem to want to go back to the world where they suffer in silence. Talk therapy doesn't work in these cases. Antidepressants don't help the problem. The best they do is relieve some of the symptoms of one aspect of gender dysphoria. So what exactly do you want for them? Realistically and concretely, not a bland statement of vague support.
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PacifistAg
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 1:49p, 12/22/21
AG
Slight correction:
Quote:
Pretty sure she's saying sorry that hormones and transitioning help and that such treatments bother you

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