Virginia Catholic Bishop: 'No One' Is Transgender

29,695 Views | 707 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by ramblin_ag02
ramblin_ag02
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AG
Your link was interesting. It supports what you were saying about those who have medical procedures being satisfied with their decision. The article did have one tidbit:

Quote:

The study in question did not differentiate between the following:
  • Young people with gender dysphoria.
  • Young people who socially but not medically transitioned
  • young people who were simply exploring gender diversity.


First, is gender dysphoria still considered a valid diagnosis in the trans community? Also, the second and third groupings of people also seem to suggest that there are some young people who are really just "trying it out" for lack of a better phrase. Do you know of any resources that would have a rough proportion breakdown between these groups?

Sorry to keep asking. Like I said, I'm just somewhat shocked by how common this is on my circle, and my circle is moderate to conservative Texans. So it leads me to one of two conclusions. Either the rate of trans identity is about 100x higher than the oft repeated 0.1%, and 10% of our society has been outrageously oppressed for a very long time. Or young people searching for their identity are giving being trans a try for a variety of reasons.
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PacifistAg
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ramblin_ag02 said:

Your link was interesting. It supports what you were saying about those who have medical procedures being satisfied with their decision. The article did have one tidbit:

Quote:

The study in question did not differentiate between the following:
  • Young people with gender dysphoria.
  • Young people who socially but not medically transitioned
  • young people who were simply exploring gender diversity.


First, is gender dysphoria still considered a valid diagnosis in the trans community? Also, the second and third groupings of people also seem to suggest that there are some young people who are really just "trying it out" for lack of a better phrase. Do you know of any resources that would have a rough proportion breakdown between these groups?

Sorry to keep asking. Like I said, I'm just somewhat shocked by how common this is on my circle, and my circle is moderate to conservative Texans. So it leads me to one of two conclusions. Either the rate of trans identity is about 100x higher than the oft repeated 0.1%, and 10% of our society has been outrageously oppressed for a very long time. Or young people searching for their identity are giving being trans a try for a variety of reasons.
Yes, gender dysphoria is still considered a valid diagnosis in the trans community. I don't doubt that some young people question and explore their gender identity. I don't think you see these kids medically transition though, which is why knowing how much of each group made up the total would be important. The rate of those who detransition after beginning medical transition, though, is miniscule.

Another problem with that study that many in the Right/TERF alliance have clung to is that if the researchers lost contact with a subject, or the subject became unresponsive, they were lumped in the "desist" category. This describes nearly half of the original subjects. It's sloppy, at best. The study is largely useless, except that it does seem to indicate a correlation between strong dysphoria and future medical transition.

I'll do some digging for other info.
PacifistAg
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AG

Quote:

Sorry to keep asking. Like I said, I'm just somewhat shocked by how common this is on my circle, and my circle is moderate to conservative Texans. So it leads me to one of two conclusions. Either the rate of trans identity is about 100x higher than the oft repeated 0.1%, and 10% of our society has been outrageously oppressed for a very long time. Or young people searching for their identity are giving being trans a try for a variety of reasons.
Sorry for the multiple posts, but didn't want this response to get lost in an edit. I think you're somewhat on the right track. Yes, I truly believe that, similar to what the 20th century saw with left-handedness, there are more trans people than previously thought. This will become evident as it becomes safer to come out.

That said, I would push back slightly against the last statement. I don't think they're "giving being trans" a try. I think some kids give gender nonconformity a try. To those outside the group, it could appear as they're trans. They simply could be crossdressers (totally different than being trans), or they could just prefer a gender fluid expression without even identifying as trans. It's not the clothes that they wear that makes them trans. There are plenty of older people who are trans, but due to various pressures, they've never transitioned. They're no less trans simply because they didn't transition. Being transgender is so much deeper than just their external clothing expression.
Sapper Redux
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PacifistAg said:

Slight correction:
Quote:

Pretty sure she's saying sorry that hormones and transitioning help and that such treatments bother you




Whoops. Sorry about that.
PacifistAg
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AG
Oh, and thank you for the respectful questions. It's a much appreciated change of tone, and I'll be glad to continue.
PacifistAg
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AG
Sapper Redux said:

PacifistAg said:

Slight correction:
Quote:

Pretty sure she's saying sorry that hormones and transitioning help and that such treatments bother you




Whoops. Sorry about that.
No sweat. I know it wasn't intentional with you.
PacifistAg
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AG
Okay, and sorry for yet another post. Was doing some digging. This article delves into the methodological problems of that popular "desistance" study:

Quote:

For starters, the most cited study (Steensma) which alleges a 84 percent desistance rate, did not actually differentiate between children with consistent, persistent and insistent gender dysphoria, kids who socially transitioned, and kids who just acted more masculine or feminine than their birth sex and culture allowed for. In other words, it treated gender non-conformance the same as gender dysphoria. Worse, the study could not locate 45.3 percent of the children for follow up, and made the assumption that all of them were desisters. Indeed, other studies used to support this also suffered from similar methodological flaws.

As a result, the 84 percent desistance figure is meaningless, since both the numerator and denominator are unknown, because you have no idea how many of the kids ended up transitioning (numerator), and no idea how many of them were actually gender dysphoric to begin with (denominator). When Dr. Steensma went back in 2013 and looked at the intensity of dysphoria these children felt as a factor in persistence, it turned out that it was actually a very good predictor of which children would transition.

In other words, the children who actually met the clinical guidelines for gender dysphoria as children generally ended up as transgender adults. Further research has shown that children who meet the clinical guidelines for gender dysphoria are as consistent in their gender identity as the general population.
I think this gets into the issues from the categories you mentioned. They were trying to count the number of apples in a basket filled with apples and oranges, and they simply counted all the oranges as apples anyways. Basically, a study on trans desisters included people who weren't trans and didn't come close to meeting the diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria. So, they lumped in non-trans people who are simply gender non-conforming with those who met the diagnostic criteria. It's fatally flawed methodology.

The study found in the last link above found:

Quote:

In summary, our findings refute the assumption that transgender children are simply confused by the questions at hand, delayed, pretending, or being oppositional. Instead, transgender children show responses that look largely indistinguishable from those of cisgender children, who match transgender children's gender expression on both more- and less-controllable measures. Further, and addressing the broader concern about transgender individuals' mere existence raised at the outset of this article, the data reported here should serve as evidence that transgender children do indeed exist and that their identity is a deeply held one.
One of the major proponents of the desistance myth is Dr. Kenneth Zucker, who was fired and had his conversion therapy clinic closed after an investigation:

Quote:

But, the most outrageous piece of information coming out of CAMH was Dr. Zucker's claims that gender dysphoria desisted in 80 percent of cases. However, when investigators reviewed the files of children admitted to CAHM, 42 percent of them never met the clinical criteria for juvenile gender dysphoria in the first place.

In short, half of the kids Dr. Zucker claimed to "cure" were never transgender in the first place.
ramblin_ag02
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Quote:

In summary, our findings refute the assumption that transgender children are simply confused by the questions at hand, delayed, pretending, or being oppositional. Instead, transgender children show responses that look largely indistinguishable from those of cisgender children, who match transgender children's gender expression on both more- and less-controllable measures. Further, and addressing the broader concern about transgender individuals' mere existence raised at the outset of this article, the data reported here should serve as evidence that transgender children do indeed exist and that their identity is a deeply held one.
Thanks! This cuts pretty much to the heart of my question. It would not surprise me if young people were temporarily changing gender, as most theories of child development have identity confusion as the major hurdle for young people to overcome. However, having a much larger suppressed population is also a valid hypothesis for my observations. According to these findings at least, it seems the later is much more plausible than the former.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
 
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