Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

ViceroyEschaton said:

---

First of all, I feel for your misery and the difficulty of the situation. The bishop says as much.

That said, it is a simplistic solution. To say, "We aren't actually going to figure out how to help your mental illness and we'll block attempts to study it, but hey, we'll validate your dysmorphia instead" is simplistic.

Name me another illness where instead of helping the patient feel comfortable in their own?body, we tell them theyre totally right and encourage their aberration.

---

Assuming this mind-body dualism, where they are separate and one is right and one is wrong, is incredibly simplistic. Modern medical treatment for transgender people is far more complex than you or the bishop can admit.

---

That's odd, since the person in question is stating their sex is at odds with their gender, and is taking hormones to try and rectify the situation. How can one not be right and one not be wrong either way?

---

Gender dysmorphia is a complicated matter that gives lie to the idea of a dualism where the body and mind are separate. Taking hormones influences the brain as much as it influences the body. Pacifist already said that was a step taken after years of dealing with the problem. Hormones and surgery are the last steps in a long process, not the first. And the idea is to help make the entire person whole rather than have a person in constant conflict.

---

It is made into a complicated issue to try and obfuscate an obvious truth, that some things can't be changed. Regardless of where hormones therapy or surgery is in the process it shows the claim that its all merely a "mind" issue is a lie, as the body is artificially forced into behaving and appearing as the opposite sex does naturally.

---

Your approach would have us ignore the real physiological aspects of gender dysmorphia to force a person to match a social definition of sex based on external appearance.

---

In 99.9999% of cases a person can be accurately gendered by simply looking at them.

People are born either male or female barring the one in a gazillion genetic defect wherein it's not necessarily outwardly clear. E

I believe gender confusion is demonically inspired, as is gluttony, alcoholism, and a myriad of other behaviors.

PacifistAg said:

---

M1Buckeye said:

---

I believe gender confusion is demonically inspired, as is gluttony, alcoholism, and a myriad of other behaviors.

---

So now I'm like an alcoholic because I'm someone you don't understand. So much for that "love others" bit you toss out when challenged.

Being transgender isn't a "behavior". I'd be trans even if I never transitioned or did anything.

---

So I shouldn't tell the truth in order not to offend one's feelings? The most loving thing we can do is tell the truth. I think what you expect is that we all say that same-sex relationships and transgenderism are perfectly consistent with God's wishes. I don't believe that to be true, just like I don't believe that he wants us to drink and eat to excess.

I'm not condemning you, I'm simply saying that I believe that such lifestyles are CONTRADICTORY to what God wants. With that said and, as I said before, we ALL fall short of God's standard. That's why we must not condemn but, rather, love one another.

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

Joe Boudain said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

ViceroyEschaton said:

---

First of all, I feel for your misery and the difficulty of the situation. The bishop says as much.

That said, it is a simplistic solution. To say, "We aren't actually going to figure out how to help your mental illness and we'll block attempts to study it, but hey, we'll validate your dysmorphia instead" is simplistic.

Name me another illness where instead of helping the patient feel comfortable in their own?body, we tell them theyre totally right and encourage their aberration.

---

Assuming this mind-body dualism, where they are separate and one is right and one is wrong, is incredibly simplistic. Modern medical treatment for transgender people is far more complex than you or the bishop can admit.

---

That's odd, since the person in question is stating their sex is at odds with their gender, and is taking hormones to try and rectify the situation. How can one not be right and one not be wrong either way?

---

Gender dysmorphia is a complicated matter that gives lie to the idea of a dualism where the body and mind are separate. Taking hormones influences the brain as much as it influences the body. Pacifist already said that was a step taken after years of dealing with the problem. Hormones and surgery are the last steps in a long process, not the first. And the idea is to help make the entire person whole rather than have a person in constant conflict.

---

It is made into a complicated issue to try and obfuscate an obvious truth, that some things can't be changed. Regardless of where hormones therapy or surgery is in the process it shows the claim that its all merely a "mind" issue is a lie, as the body is artificially forced into behaving and appearing as the opposite sex does naturally.

---

Your approach would have us ignore the real physiological aspects of gender dysmorphia to force a person to match a social definition of sex based on external appearance.

---

Which involves them changing their appearance to match the social definition of their "new" sex.

Hormones, surgery, make-up, dresses, leg-shaving, all in an effort to prove that they are not the sex they were born with.

You're not not condemning her, but you are saying her life is contradictory to God's wants. That sounds like a condemnation to me.

I don't think the best thing you can do is tell the truth. I think the best thing is you can keep your opinion to yourself and listen instead of talk about something you obviously know nothing about.

PacifistAg said:

---

You aren't telling the truth. You're telling your opinion. And you have repeatedly shown that this is something you don't even understand.

---

I'm sharing my belief based on the bible, which says we are born male or female. It doesn't say that one can switch gender. I don't condemn those that do "switch", but I won't believe it's consistent with God's desires until and unless I'm shown a biblical verse that says so.

Quote:

---

But I transitioned and haven't had any suicidal thoughts since. The crushing depression is gone. But we knew the inevitable end, so much so that it was my wife who encouraged me to start hormones. Yes, in theory, I could have continued without transition and not die by suicide, but the reality of it was that it was a life or death decision. It's one of the best decisions I ever made. It's cleared this dense fog in my mind. I am "right" now, and so much more mentally, and spiritually, healthy today than at any point in my life.

---

What exactly did you do? A man cannot biologically become a woman.

Seems like he was being hyperbolic. Does 99.99% look better?

Quad Dog said:

---

You're not not condemning her, but you are saying her life is contradictory to God's wants. That sounds like a condemnation to me.

I don't think the best thing you can do is tell the truth. I think the best thing is you can keep your opinion to yourself and listen instead of talk about something you obviously know nothing about.

---

You and he are certainly welcome to put me on "ignore". I will speak the biblical truth, whether you agree with it or not.

PacifistAg said:

---

Quote:

---

I think the best thing is you can keep your opinion to yourself and listen instead of talk about something you obviously know nothing about.

---

Yep. It's why I don't comment on quantum physics. My understanding stems from nothing more than Ant Man. This is really the same. Diaclosure is a great documentary on how the majority of Americans derive their views of trans people largely from how we're portrayed by Hollywood (20% of Americans at the time actually knew a trans person). So people operate with this flawed perceptions instead of actually getting to know and listening to trans people. I'm very active on twitter. I've had so many, Christian and not Christian, reach out to say how I've helped reshape their views on trans people. Why? Because they listened.

But then you have people who refuse to listen, refuse to learn, refuse to understand, yet want to talk as if they're experts. It's much like we see with the COVID anti-vaxxers.

---

You want Christians to reject the bible and accept your word that, engaging in same-sex relationships and "switching" gender, is good and holy. It's an extreme and unreasonable expectation.

PacifistAg said:

---

*she...and it's your opinion/interpretation. But interesting that instead of accepting the invition to shut up, listen, and learn, you encourage muting.

---

You're welcome to make the BIBLICAL case that same-sex relationships and "switching" gender is pleasing to God. I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that I believe that what you're doing is pleasing to God when I can't find evidence for it in the bible. I'm also not going to be compelled to parrot something that I know is untrue by referring to you as "she/her".

PacifistAg said:

---

Hey, sweetheart, I'm a Christian and I don't reject the Bible. But thank you for wording it like that, because it exposes that you are in fact condemning.

---

So unless I approve of everyone's lifestyle choices, I am "condemning" them? If I told a polygamist that their lifestyle is inconsistent with the bible, I have essentially "condemned" them, right?

I've condemned no one, but you do you.

Here's my two cents.

If you would not advocate for every other human on earth to emulate your lifestyle, then it is probably not a godly one. Now this can be translated to every person, obviously. Take premarital sex for example. I was created to want sex and procreate, but Gods law says otherwise. Most of us fall short of that commandment, but luckily, we grow up, get married, and that sin falls out of our life. Problem with gay/trans is that the sin never falls out of your life if you act on it. Which I can understand the difficulty that entails, if it's anything like normal straight 20 year olds trying to abstain from sex with their girlfriends. It would be a lifelong struggle. But it's the same struggle given to straight individuals who weren't called to marriage. We all have sins that we shouldn't act on, but do. In the end, it's all sin and all displeasing to God. And I don't think it's hypocritical to hold each other accountable and/or encourage a different path.

"Trust the science. Male women exist, bigot, Educate yourself" would have been a punch line all of about 3 years ago, and is now said with a straight face to ringing applause.

Honestly, PacifistAg this kind of consistent nonsense, pig headedness, and hatred from Christians towards you affirms to me why I don't really have an interest in being a Christian anymore.
I don't really understand why you continue to want to be in their club. But you are a stronger person than me for many reasons I guess.

Howdy Dammit said:

---

Here's my two cents.

If you would not advocate for every other human on earth to emulate your lifestyle, then it is probably not a godly one. Now this can be translated to every person, obviously. Take premarital sex for example. I was created to want sex and procreate, but Gods law says otherwise. Most of us fall short of that commandment, but luckily, we grow up, get married, and that sin falls out of our life. Problem with gay/trans is that the sin never falls out of your life if you act on it. Which I can understand the difficulty that entails, if it's anything like normal straight 20 year olds trying to abstain from sex with their girlfriends. It would be a lifelong struggle. But it's the same struggle given to straight individuals who weren't called to marriage. We all have sins that we shouldn't act on, but do. In the end, it's all sin and all displeasing to God. And I don't think it's hypocritical to hold each other accountable and/or encourage a different path.

---

Well said. Amen.

Quote:

---

Problem with gay/trans is that the sin never falls out of your life if you act on it.

---

Are my husband and I sinning when we're on the couch watching Netflix? How about when we walk our dogs? Are Aggie football games together ok? Dinner, as long as it's not to celebrate an anniversary?

Beer Baron said:

---

Quote:

---

Problem with gay/trans is that the sin never falls out of your life if you act on it.

---

Are my husband and I sinning when we're on the couch watching Netflix? How about when we walk our dogs? Are Aggie football games together ok? Dinner, as long as it's not to celebrate an anniversary?

---

The bible speaks against same-sex relationships. It also speaks against MANY other things. It's ultimately up to Jesus to judge us. I certainly do not judge but nor can I condone something that is, according to the bible, inconsistent with what God wants.

Do you believe that Christians should reject the bible and embrace the idea that all behaviors and lifestyles are moral and acceptable to God?

PacifistAg said:

---

I'm still curious what they claim my sin is. Taking medicine that cured my depression and suicidal ideation (or at least keep it at bay)? It also have me amazing breasts, so maybe that's it. Or is it my clothes? I mean, I do look fabulous today, and that may cause some to stumble. Or is it my pronoun usage? Can't be my marriage, because they consider me a man and I'm married to a woman.

---

Very weird that you literally edited this post to include the part about amazing breasts.