this is so freaking awesome

**Minor Winds of Winter Spoiler****

Anyone following the WoW chapters that have apparently been read by Martin at various events so far? POV's so far:

Theon (website)
Arianne 2 chapters
Victarion

Looks like WoW is going to have some serious battles very early in the book.

Hell we havent even dealt withthe white walkers yets...

Just finished the GOT DVD and it's fantastic, loved the special features and especially some of the commentary. The "David's" doing "Winter is Coming" and Martin doing "The Pointy End" were worth the price alone. Also enjoyed some of the things they did such as the backstory on the Night's Watch which they had told from multiple perspectives with Maester Aemon speaking in glowing terms of the honor of the Watch and then Tywin Lannister speaking about it as a disposal service for the riff raff of the Realm.

A couple other thoughts as well. The casting of the actors for the show has been fantastic with really only one "miss" imo, Lena Headey as Cersei Lannister. She isn't terrible but when you compare her to how Sean Bean IS Ned Stark or Peter Dinklage IS Tyrion she falls short. She's just not beautiful enough and just doesn't pull off the power of the role like so many of the other actors do. Listening to her commentary also turned me off even more, she just isn't as serious as the other actors are are has a serious potty mouth that is just annoying. I am fired up about the Season 2 casting though, it looks like they nailed it though I don't know much about the guy they cast as Stannis.

He did a great job as Thomas Jefferson in HBO's John Adams. Sure he'll be fine. I imagined a sterner meaner looking dude, but I trust the producers know what they're doing. Casting has been great so far.

Ok, I remember him there and he was solid. I actually can see him as better in this show than as Jefferson as I remember thinking he was a bit less flamboyant than I saw Jefferson to be (of course part of that is the author was clearly negative on Jefferson but that's another story). He may work well actually as the somewhat awkward and honorable warrior.

i hear a lot of book fans not enjoying headey's Cersei, personally i like her more than the book version. she's much more realistic and believable than the somewhat cartoony villain she tends to be in the books

my biggest miss as far as casting was Renly. he's constantly described as "a young Robert" in the books, oozing with confidence, carefree-ness, and masculinity, despite his homosexuality. in the show he's just kinda whiny and not all that inspiring. maybe that'll change in season 2

Stannis always reminded me of a grumpy Ned Stark. All about the proper honorable way of doing things but pissed off instead of shocked like Ned was that nobody else seemed to care as much about honor as he did.

uni,

Good point on Renly, though I don't know if that was a casting issue as much as a bigger change that they decided to really pump up him and Loras as homosexual. Loras is definitely not such a flamer in the books as he is in the TV show and Renly does seem more confident.

As for Cersei, ironically I think a great choice for her would have been someone more like Natalie Dormer who is going to play Margaery Tyrell (though she is too young). She was awesome as Ann Boleyn with the sexy charm but evil scheming. To me Cersei is this incredibly beautiful and magnetic personality that manipulates everyone and it isn't until later she becomes drunk with power and becomes a complete narcissist. Maybe someone like Polly Walker who played a great Atia of the Julii in Rome.

I never understood why Robert and Stannis got along so poorly. Robert and Ned clearly matched up well and Stannis has a lot of Ned in him. He's also one of the few true warriors in the realm and you would think Robert would respect that. Instead he takes away his rightful seat at Storm's End to give him Dragonstone and never makes him Hand or even seems to consider him.

Of course Stannis probably never got over Robert banging the chick on his marriage bed. I just don't get how they grew so far apart before that.

One thing I just picked up that confuses me about this season is no ramsay bolton (and reed kids). Without him I dont see how the dominos fall with theon/winterfell/bran which lead to robb/jeyne and cat/jaime

So Im actually glad they cut out Marillion's tongue. People complain that this "wasnt in da books" but it always erked me how Petyr was able to off Lysa and Marillion never says it was Petyr. (Maybe Petyr had something on him or held a family member, i dont recall).

BUT with Marillion as a mute, he cannot confess it was Petyr. All the producers have to say is "Lysa doesnt care for the singing, and prefers the lyre being played" and then Marillion is the perfect bard for her.

That was in the book( cutting out the tounge)

quote:

---

That was in the book( cutting out the tounge)

---

In the book it isn't Marillion who has his tounge cut out. It is some random tavern singer.

actually in the book, doesn't littlefinger have marillion's hands cut off? cause then just sings all the time which freaks out sansa/alayne

I thought it was him cuz he was good looking then got tortured and his tounge cut out so he wouldn't be able to tell anyone.

I wonder if the lack of Reek/Reed kids means they're pushing the sacking of Winterfell to season 3

IS all the talk of Reed/Reed/Ramsay and Marmillion because they haven;t been cast yet?

sack will be this season. there's already a trailer where you can see theon at winterfell with two young bodies hanging from the wall

speculation is that maester luwin will stay alive and he and Osha will be the ones to go with rickon and bran/hodor

I dont mind Osha leading Hodor and Bran north of the wall: three kids, a retard and a wolf can navigate far far north? please. At least having a wildling helping makes good sense.

This leaves the question: what do they do with Rickon? They really cant take him with them. If Luwin is kept alive in the TV series, perhaps he can take Rickon to Skagos.

Three kids, the retard and the wolf make it to the Wall which anyone could find. There they meet Cold Hands and he leads them far, far north.

HBO should should stick with Luwin dying and Osha taking Rickon to Skagos.

Just finished reading all five books the other day and then read through this thread. Lots of interesting theories here, my thoughts:

Love the Tyrion = Targ theory

Ditto for the L+R=J theory

Patch face has been entirely worthless and annoying thus far. He’s eventually going to do something of note, whether it turns out he’s a player playing dumb or if he finds and blows the horn of whatchamacallit because he’s a fool, he's got to eventually do something or why write him in in the first place?

Patchface's back story reminds me a bit of Damphair and servants of the Drowned God, since he drowned at sea before being washed up alive. It's probably just a coincidence, but it might explain his prophetic songs.

Similar to patch face, Stannis’ gray-scale daughter has so far been worthless and I feel she’s bound to have some sort of role to play since GRRM has kept her around this long. With Val freaking out about the Grayscale, I wonder if the disease has any sort of association with the Others that’s only known about beyond the wall? Some sort of Grayscale plague wiping out the night’s watch / wildlings might be an interesting development...

Any bets on where the true horn of whatchamacallit is? With how often they’ve mentioned it, it’s got to show up at some point and be blown, knocking down the wall. (I really want to see the Others sweep down across the north and kill everyone. A few books ago, I was hoping that would occur and lead to the eradication of the Boltons, Freys and Ironmen - all the traitors of the north.)

My personal bet? I think the horn's in the catacombs beneath Winterfell; the fourth floor that rumor says is partially collapsed and nobody goes down there. At this point, I think Lady Dustin or Ramsay or one of them will find it.

After watching season 1, I was sure Syrio was alive. Having read 5 books, I'm sure he's dead. Sorry, Syrio fans.

The Jaquen / Pate observation is spot on.

My biggest concern going forward is GRRM simply has too many loose threads out there. It's going to be a b**** to bring them all together. Some characters, like Gendry or undead Catelyn, had seemed important for a moment or a while, only to be completely abandoned. At this point I wonder why Gendry was ever introduced in the first place - I think that was a storyline that just kind of collapsed on GRRM. I'm concerned other characters and plot lines will quietly disappear as well.

Oh, and I think the Queen of Thorns is going to have a BIG role to play in the coming books. I think even Petyr referred to her as a major player, and she did assassinate Joffrey already. It would be a shame for her to turn into just another loose thread.

Not ever character serves a purpose beyond helping a POV character move the story along. Gendry is a perfect example. His purpose in the story seems to have been (1) to help John Aryyn and Ned realize that black hair is a dominant trait in Robert's children, and (2) to help keep Arya/Arry alive until Harrenhal.

I, too, think Patchface is a well-overlooked character. Im telling ya, its a Baelish plant.

I hated Patchface at first but then realized he is another prophecy teller. For instance he predicted the Red Wedding and his other tales also have meaning. You just have to get over the original annoyance of the "I know I know, oh, oh oh!" I actually look forward to him now. I kind of think of it as how much I hated "Reek, Reek, it rhymes with freak!" and then loved it.

Speaking of Gendry, didn't someone say or insinuate Varys was the one who paid the nights watch to smuggle him out of Kings Landing?

If so, that makes Varys' Targaryen motives very suspect...

Or was it Baelish who smuggled Gendry out? In which case, maybe Littlefinger plans to marry Sansa to Gendry as a way of laying claim to the throne?

I wouldnt rule it out, but that means the Robert Arryn, the sick, would have to marry Sansa then die. Then you have to reclaim Baratheon for Gendry.

Always remember, it isnt blood that determines a King...see Aegon the Conqueror.

Vary's actually seems to be one of the most honorable of them all in his own way. He does as much as he can to help those from falling to injustice except when it risks his own life and position of influence, but I find that to be just fine. Can't keep helping anyone if you're dead.

Who knows what his end game is, but he has done a lot of good 'for the realm' and for individual people when he certainly didn't need to take the risk.

The good of the realm was a lie to Ned Stark to get him to confess to save from war.

VARYS DID NOT WANT A WAR RIGHT NOW!!! He wants a war but his ace-in-the-hole is not ready! Little Aegon is very much in debt to Illyrio and Varys, planting a man on the Iron Throne makes you very powerful. Could you imagine Varys as Hand, especially to a King who has no real knowledge of how Kings act, nor of the game?

bill, yes he wanted a war, but it was only to un-do what robert's rebellion ****ed up. in all likelihood, he loved rhaegar just as much as everyone else did and wanted to see him on the throne - and so he tried to get another targaryen on the throne after robert slew him on the trident. first it was dany (although arguably it was first viserys before he ended up being an idiot), then he realized that was a lost cause and went to his backup.

ultimately, varys is a foreigner and therefore supports the targaryen dynasty - but i do think he sincerely wants peace in the realms, he just will do anything to get it. he certainly doesn't want power for himself, he knows he could never publicly wield such a thing

also guys, there's a season 2 spoiler thread up for this next season, so we should move the discussion there so both spoiler threads aren't being posted in

http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2051452&page=1&forum_id=13

Bump as requested

Thanks jkag.

I'll take "Threads I was not expecting to see pop up on my watch list" for $2000, Alex