*****2022-2023 San Antonio Spurs Thread*****

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Sher Thing
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9:24p, 6/19/23
AG
Spurs need to maintain flexibility for now. I would think handing out nothing longer than 2 year deals should be the goal this off season.

I like Collins but there's definitely a need for a center and I think a veteran would be nice to have there. I thought Brook Lopez would have been an excellent fit. Vucevic is also a name I was watching. Sounds like those guys may stay where they are though; however, I was hoping to get one of those guys on like a 2 yr/$50M deal since the Spurs need to spend the money anyway.

Other than that… someone like Mason Plumlee or Naz Reid will have to do if they go the free agent route.

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Ag Natural
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 9:28p, 6/19/23
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Ag Natural said:
Points of fact, a history lesson.

In 1989, the Spurs traded for Terry Cummings and Maurice Cheeks to join David Robinson and Sean Elliott for the their rookie seasons. That season concluded with the 2nd biggest turnaround in NBA history (after Bird's rookie season). Cheeks was then flipped for Rod Strickland in year 2 of the Admiral era. p.s. when Cummings first joined the Spurs he was unreal. His devastating knee injury derailed a possibility of an early Robinson title.

In 1997, the Spurs didn't make any big deals prior to Duncan's rookie season. But they were getting David Robinson and Sean Elliott back from injury. They then went on to have the largest turnaround in NBA history. (35 wins). Then in 1998-99 mid season they traded for Steve Kerr and signed Mario Ellie and Jerome Kersey... and won a chip.

It's a proven method. Adding veterans to supplement your very young star is a tale that has been told in San Antonio. Names like Conley and Green are pretty good but I think the modern era Spurs would believe more in adding veteran role players. We already have McBuckets. I'd love a Seth Curry or Austin Reaves.
Definitely agree with the need of the veterans, especially bringing dogs like in Elie and Kersey.

I would be surprised if McBuckets was still here in 365 days.

You want tough veterans and Mike Conley and Danny Green are pretty good, but you'd love.... Austin Reaves? I don't know if I would consider him a mentally tough, hardened veteran at this point.

If you watched the playoff run by the Nuggets, you'll know why I like Bruce Brown so much. He'd be an elite fit. Getting DonteD from the Warriors would be fantastic, too. Both would add a lot of toughness, defense, shooting and passing to the team.
Yeah I was just really impressed with Reaves this season. I suspect the Lakers will match any offer though, so making one would just be to force their hand.

My gut tells me this regime will wait to make any big moves. They'll want to see how Wemby looks early, how much Sochan advances after an offseason, and how everyone meshes. Seriously, a top six of Wemby, Sochan, Vassell, Johnson, Collins, Branham and (probably) Trey Jones... is pretty interesting. We already have vets McBuckets and Graham to tap into along with Diop. If this FO decides to have this team grow together for a while I think it's fine. Maybe in year two they go sign some old guys to round out a real run.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Ag Natural • 9:51p, 6/19/23
AG
Biggest problem is we HAVE to spend money this year. That's why a guy like Conley for a 2nd makes sense.

Salary floor is 120.6mm. Have to reach that to get a cut of Phoenix, LAC, and GSW's luxury tax.

Keldon, Doug, Graham, Collins, Birch, Primo, Vassell, Sochan, Branham, Wesley, Bassey, and Wemby gives us about $92mm in salary.

Still need to spend 19mm more, at least. I assume we would give Tre Jones a declining contract.

With Tre, that's 12 players. Only three spots left and we currently have two second round picks.

Mamu and KBD are UFAs, but we honestly need upgrades at PG, C, and wing defense, even if we don't plan on trying to compete right now.

I expect a trade or two. I could see us moving the 2nds this year for a late first. I think we trade or waive Birch. I like McBuckets, but don't know that Graham is a veteran that I want our young guys learning a ton from.

I agree with you that the Lakers match anything on Reaves. That's a reason I like DonteD.

I have no hesitation with giving Donte and Brown a 4y contract.
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FTAG 2000
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12:00a, 6/20/23
AG
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Enzo The Baker
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10:43a, 6/20/23
AG
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Guitarsoup
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11:04a, 6/20/23
AG
twenty second round picks for Orlando's #6 and #11.
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flashplayer
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11:25a, 6/20/23
AG
I agree vets are important but I'm in the camp that thinks the 96 and 97 Spurs don't parallel the 22 and 23 Spurs enough to go lock up a bunch of vets at the end of their careers for more than a year or two at a time on a no more than minimum contract.

If they want to fill roster spots with vets on cheap contracts, I think thats a fine idea for the right vet players. If they want someone more expensive for only a year or 2, there's some risk there in making free agent signings more difficult but it would probably be navigable. Anything beyond that would be unwise.

This team with Wemby and even another first rounder this year isn't a piece away from immediate contention. There's no dream team HOF caliber player already on the roster. Probably no one even approximating the two way talent of Elliott either. But thats not to say they wont get there in a year or two. I just think they need to keep roster flexibility maximized another 2 years.
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Guitarsoup
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11:35a, 6/20/23
AG
I think our timeline is something like:

23-24 Seaason: see what we have in Wemby and how he meshes with Sochan, Vassell, Keldon.

Summer 2024: Big decision times
Charlotte 1st (lottery protected)
Toronto 1st (top 6 protected)
Own 1st
Devin Vassell extension?
Zach Collins extension?
Graham = 2mm guaranteed
Dougie = UFA

2024-25 cap expected to be 145mm ish, with salary floor at 130mm-ish.

2024-2025, hopefully have team together we like, development year, challenge for 3rd-6th seed in playoffs

Summer 2025:
Spurs 1st
Atlanta 1st (no protections)
Toronto 1st (top 6 protected, if it didn't go in 2024)
Chicago 1st (top 10 protected)

2025-2026: Challenge for title.
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Ag Natural
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 11:48a, 6/20/23
AG
Guitarsoup said:
I think our timeline is something like:

23-24 Seaason: see what we have in Wemby and how he meshes with Sochan, Vassell, Keldon.

Summer 2024: Big decision times
Charlotte 1st (lottery protected)
Toronto 1st (top 6 protected)
Own 1st
Devin Vassell extension?
Zach Collins extension?
Graham = 2mm guaranteed
Dougie = UFA

2024-25 cap expected to be 145mm ish, with salary floor at 130mm-ish.

2024-2025, hopefully have team together we like, development year, challenge for 3rd-6th seed in playoffs

Summer 2025:
Spurs 1st
Atlanta 1st (no protections)
Toronto 1st (top 6 protected, if it didn't go in 2024)
Chicago 1st (top 10 protected)

2025-2026: Challenge for title.
I bet both Vassell and Collins get extensions this summer.
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Enzo The Baker
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11:50a, 6/20/23
AG
Reports of Poeltl not wanting to go back to Toronto if they blow it up (doesn't want to be part of rebuild). He'd be worth taking back if we can convince him this isn't a rebuild. Haha Wouldn't mind giving him a large short term contract at all.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Ag Natural • 11:50a, 6/20/23
AG
Ag Natural said:
Guitarsoup said:
I think our timeline is something like:

23-24 Seaason: see what we have in Wemby and how he meshes with Sochan, Vassell, Keldon.

Summer 2024: Big decision times
Charlotte 1st (lottery protected)
Toronto 1st (top 6 protected)
Own 1st
Devin Vassell extension?
Zach Collins extension?
Graham = 2mm guaranteed
Dougie = UFA

2024-25 cap expected to be 145mm ish, with salary floor at 130mm-ish.

2024-2025, hopefully have team together we like, development year, challenge for 3rd-6th seed in playoffs

Summer 2025:
Spurs 1st
Atlanta 1st (no protections)
Toronto 1st (top 6 protected, if it didn't go in 2024)
Chicago 1st (top 10 protected)

2025-2026: Challenge for title.
I bet both Vassell and Collins get extensions this summer.
I hope so. There are weird rules about extensions and max amounts for guys that aren't all-stars.
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Sher Thing
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11:56a, 6/20/23
AG
Poeltl likely going to have to take a pay cut if he doesn't want to go into a "rebuild" situation. Would be odd considering he's likely up for the largest contract of his career.

I like Poeltl but I think that ship has sailed for the Spurs.

If I'm Phoenix I try to turn Ayton into Poeltl somehow via S&T or something. That's a move that would make them better.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 12:01p, 6/20/23
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
Reports of Poeltl not wanting to go back to Toronto if they blow it up (doesn't want to be part of rebuild). He'd be worth taking back if we can convince him this isn't a rebuild. Haha Wouldn't mind giving him a large short term contract at all.
Yeah, he would fit in perfectly, depending on what he thinks he is worth. I think since he doesn't have any range, his value will be lower than he expects.

Looking at teams with cap space:

Detroit: Wiseman/Stewart
Indiana: Turner
Rockets: He's too fundamentally sound
Orlando: Wendell Carter
Spurs: Fits in nice with a rotation of Collins
OKC: Fills a need, but would he be mobile enough for a team built around SGA/Chet/Giddey/Williams? SGA, Williams, Giddey are all below average 3pt shooters, which is why OKC played Dario Saric at center so much. Jakob doesn't improve that.



So how much a year is too much for Jakob?
Capela gets 22mm
Jarrett Allen is 20mm
Mithcell Robinson is 16mm
Jonas is 15mm.

I think Jakob wants 25mm, but his value is likely more in the 15-20 range.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Sher Thing • 12:05p, 6/20/23
AG
Sher Thing said:


If I'm Phoenix I try to turn Ayton into Poeltl somehow via S&T or something. That's a move that would make them better.
Problem is I think that Toronto is letting Gary and FVV walk and trying to trade Pascal. They don't want Ayton's money or laziness. They want to tank to bottom 2, so tehy are guaranteed their pick the next two years
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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 12:10p, 6/20/23
AG
If we can get Jak back for sub $20milllion I would 100% on board. Love Wemby but, surprisingly not the best rebounder right now. He and Jak anchoring the defense would be deadly.
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Sher Thing
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 12:10p, 6/20/23
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Sher Thing said:


If I'm Phoenix I try to turn Ayton into Poeltl somehow via S&T or something. That's a move that would make them better.
Problem is I think that Toronto is letting Gary and FVV walk and trying to trade Pascal. They don't want Ayton's money or laziness. They want to tank to bottom 2, so tehy are guaranteed their pick the next two years
Trading Poeltl for a first rounder is an awful move if that's the case.
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Ag Natural
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 12:19p, 6/20/23
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Sher Thing said:


If I'm Phoenix I try to turn Ayton into Poeltl somehow via S&T or something. That's a move that would make them better.
Problem is I think that Toronto is letting Gary and FVV walk and trying to trade Pascal. They don't want Ayton's money or laziness. They want to tank to bottom 2, so tehy are guaranteed their pick the next two years
Phoenix wouldn't be able to get any assurance that Jacob would resign with them. He's going to be a free agent regardless because an extension can't go high enough to satisfy him.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Ag Natural • 12:21p, 6/20/23
AG
Ag Natural said:
Guitarsoup said:
Sher Thing said:


If I'm Phoenix I try to turn Ayton into Poeltl somehow via S&T or something. That's a move that would make them better.
Problem is I think that Toronto is letting Gary and FVV walk and trying to trade Pascal. They don't want Ayton's money or laziness. They want to tank to bottom 2, so tehy are guaranteed their pick the next two years
Phoenix wouldn't be able to get any assurance that Jacob would resign with them. He's going to be a free agent regardless because an extension can't go high enough to satisfy him.
Jakob can't be traded until after July 1st and it would have to be a S&T where he agrees to the contract and the destination/trade.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Sher Thing • 12:26p, 6/20/23
AG
Sher Thing said:
Guitarsoup said:
Sher Thing said:


If I'm Phoenix I try to turn Ayton into Poeltl somehow via S&T or something. That's a move that would make them better.
Problem is I think that Toronto is letting Gary and FVV walk and trying to trade Pascal. They don't want Ayton's money or laziness. They want to tank to bottom 2, so tehy are guaranteed their pick the next two years
Trading Poeltl for a first rounder is an awful move if that's the case.
I think they thought that Jakob/Barnes/Pascal/OG/Gary/FVV was their ticket to get better, but they were 26-30 when they traded for Jakob and finished the season at 41-42. So some improvement, but not enough to pay the salaries to run it back.

And yeah, it was dumb. Since they moved that first, they fired their championship winning coach. They just aren't a contending team with those guys, so they have to make a change.
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Ag Natural
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 12:26p, 6/20/23
AG
Guitarsoup said:
Ag Natural said:
Guitarsoup said:
Sher Thing said:


If I'm Phoenix I try to turn Ayton into Poeltl somehow via S&T or something. That's a move that would make them better.
Problem is I think that Toronto is letting Gary and FVV walk and trying to trade Pascal. They don't want Ayton's money or laziness. They want to tank to bottom 2, so tehy are guaranteed their pick the next two years
Phoenix wouldn't be able to get any assurance that Jacob would resign with them. He's going to be a free agent regardless because an extension can't go high enough to satisfy him.
Jakob can't be traded until after July 1st and it would have to be a S&T where he agrees to the contract and the destination/trade.
That would be pure charity form Jakob's camp. I'm sure it's a possibility that he just loves the idea of playing for Phoenix.
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Sher Thing
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12:31p, 6/20/23
AG
I'm not sure anyone really knows what Toronto is doing at this point. I haven't seen any confirmation that they are about to blow anything up.

Even trading Siakam to Atlanta could return a decent haul (DJ, Bogdanovic?, etc,) which doesn't necessarily put them at the bottom of the league.
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Ag Natural
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In reply to Sher Thing • 12:43p, 6/20/23
AG
Sher Thing said:
I'm not sure anyone really knows what Toronto is doing at this point. I haven't seen any confirmation that they are about to blow anything up.

Even trading Siakam to Atlanta could return a decent haul (DJ, Bogdanovic?, etc,) which doesn't necessarily put them at the bottom of the league.
Yeah they don't seem like the blow it up type.
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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to Sher Thing • 12:43p, 6/20/23
AG
Reported that GT Jr. Just opted in, wants to stay and that the two sides are working on a longer term deal. Not that he's a world beater but the raptors might not bottom out to your point.
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Guitarsoup
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12:45p, 6/20/23
AG
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Ag Natural • 12:46p, 6/20/23
AG
Ag Natural said:
Guitarsoup said:
Ag Natural said:
Guitarsoup said:
Sher Thing said:


If I'm Phoenix I try to turn Ayton into Poeltl somehow via S&T or something. That's a move that would make them better.
Problem is I think that Toronto is letting Gary and FVV walk and trying to trade Pascal. They don't want Ayton's money or laziness. They want to tank to bottom 2, so tehy are guaranteed their pick the next two years
Phoenix wouldn't be able to get any assurance that Jacob would resign with them. He's going to be a free agent regardless because an extension can't go high enough to satisfy him.
Jakob can't be traded until after July 1st and it would have to be a S&T where he agrees to the contract and the destination/trade.
That would be pure charity form Jakob's camp. I'm sure it's a possibility that he just loves the idea of playing for Phoenix.
A lot closer to a title in Phoenix than Toronto. We're talking 2nd round exit vs play-in here.
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Sher Thing
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12:47p, 6/20/23
AG
Unreal. Even with all the top players we've had, the Spurs have never had anyone this marketable and popular. Should be exciting to watch.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 12:47p, 6/20/23
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
Reported that GT Jr. Just opted in, wants to stay and that the two sides are working on a longer term deal. Not that he's a world beater but the raptors might not bottom out to your point.
Good. I want them to be about 6th or 7th worst team in the league so we get that 7th pick next year. Trent is a trash player.
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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to Sher Thing • 12:54p, 6/20/23
AG
Sher Thing said:
Unreal. Even with all the top players we've had, the Spurs have never had anyone this marketable and popular. Should be exciting to watch.

It's going to be an interesting dynamic for sure. You have a player that is going to get so much media coverage but you have the Spurs who are media averse, especially with Pop. Not to say that it will hurt Wemby's brand but you wonder if we are going to see a different approach to the media now. I love Pop but I think it would be nice if he at least dipped his toes into the Steve Kerr model.
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West Texan
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In reply to Enzo The Baker • 1:45p, 6/20/23
AG
Enzo The Baker said:
Sher Thing said:
Unreal. Even with all the top players we've had, the Spurs have never had anyone this marketable and popular. Should be exciting to watch.

It's going to be an interesting dynamic for sure. You have a player that is going to get so much media coverage but you have the Spurs who are media averse, especially with Pop. Not to say that it will hurt Wemby's brand but you wonder if we are going to see a different approach to the media now. I love Pop but I think it would be nice if he at least dipped his toes into the Steve Kerr model.


Speaking of Spurs and media coverage.

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Enzo The Baker
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In reply to West Texan • 1:47p, 6/20/23
AG
Awesome. I can see he and Victor becoming thick as thieves.
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Guitarsoup
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5:03p, 6/20/23
AG
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West Texan
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 5:10p, 6/20/23
AG
Guitarsoup said:


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Guitarsoup
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5:44p, 6/20/23
AG
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superunknown
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In reply to West Texan • 6:14p, 6/20/23
AG
this is how I feel with my kid's toy Louisville slugger bat.
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West Texan
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8:07p, 6/20/23
AG
Hopefully his rookie season goes better than his first pitch.

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