Guitarsoup said:

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Ag Natural said:

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TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

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It would be way dumber to not fix the hole at Center and get Wembanyama broken in half because he's the only player on the team that can guard starting Centers, other than maybe Zach Collins who is made of tissue paper.

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Zach is option one. He seems to be past his injury issues now. Pop already said he's probably our starting center next season. Bassey also looked promising before he got injured. It really isn't practical to carry more than two centers on the roster.

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Pop isn't going to say "we are going to get a starting center because Zach sucks "

I also think it's foolish to say any 7' guy i from the Blazers is past his broken foot issues.

We need two guys, Collins is great in the 20-25mpg role. Reid would be a great compliment

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Zach also played REALLY well after Jacob was traded. He's a much better defender than I imagined he would be. He can also hit outside shots. Yeah, everyone has the "if he stays healthy" caveat. But when healthy I think he's a perfect fit and well above average. If they want to try and upgrade from Bassey and grab another banger then that's fine too. I just don't like the idea of bringing in Lopez at $20+ million.

Ag Natural said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Ag Natural said:

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TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

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It would be way dumber to not fix the hole at Center and get Wembanyama broken in half because he's the only player on the team that can guard starting Centers, other than maybe Zach Collins who is made of tissue paper.

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Zach is option one. He seems to be past his injury issues now. Pop already said he's probably our starting center next season. Bassey also looked promising before he got injured. It really isn't practical to carry more than two centers on the roster.

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Pop isn't going to say "we are going to get a starting center because Zach sucks "

I also think it's foolish to say any 7' guy i from the Blazers is past his broken foot issues.

We need two guys, Collins is great in the 20-25mpg role. Reid would be a great compliment

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Zach also played REALLY well after Jacob was traded. He's a much better defender than I imagined he would be. He can also hit outside shots. Yeah, everyone has the "if he stays healthy" caveat. But when healthy I think he's a perfect fit and well above average. If they want to try and upgrade from Bassey and grab another banger then that's fine too. I just don't like the idea of bringing in Lopez at $20+ million.

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I don't think anyone is paying Lopez 20mm. He's been at 13/yr and is 35+.

I agree Collins is great, but he is injury prone and foul prone. I also think he is better at 25mpg with his balls to the wall effort.

That's why you bring in a guy like Naz Reid. You have to look at playing against AD and Joker.

Bill Simmons is saying on his podcast he thinks that Brown and Tatum should be brown up and make changes should and will happen.

Guitarsoup said:

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Bill Simmons is saying on his podcast he thinks that Brown and Tatum should be brown up and make changes should and will happen.

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It will be interesting to see what Brown signs for. He's supermax eligible but he's been hot garbage in the ECFinals.

Ag Natural said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Bill Simmons is saying on his podcast he thinks that Brown and Tatum should be brown up and make changes should and will happen.

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It will be interesting to see what Brown signs for. He's supermax eligible but he's been hot garbage in the ECFinals.

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Simmons proposed Brown for to portland for #3, Simons, and a future first.

Enzo The Baker said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Ag Natural said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Bill Simmons is saying on his podcast he thinks that Brown and Tatum should be brown up and make changes should and will happen.

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It will be interesting to see what Brown signs for. He's supermax eligible but he's been hot garbage in the ECFinals.

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Simmons proposed Brown for to portland for #3, Simons, and a future first.

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Of course Simmons would propose that. That would be a fleecing for the Celtics.

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Yeah. The big problem for Portland is cap. They want win now players, but they can't absorb a contract.

I still think they need to trade Dame for assets/picks and hope for the Ewing Theory. They don't have good tradable contracts

How bout Nurkic and 3 for Siakam, and then we give Toronto Branham, pick 33, and their future first that we own to snag 13 if Anthony Black is still there. Thus completing the Toronto blow-up that now seems to be inevitable and letting them embrace the tank next season without worrying about falling to 7 or 8 and giving us that pick.

I agree. At this point I don't understand holding on to Dame. They aren't going to find anyone via trade that will make them a contender. I know either side hasn't said anything publicly yet, but it is starting to feel like they are ready to part ways. It's commendable to hold onto a player who has been loyal to you and ride it out, but all it's really going to do is perpetuate a rebuild.

However, after my 1st option of trading Dame, it would actually make far more sense to keep Dame to mentor the #3 player, especially if it's Scoot. Not sure how Dame would feel about that though.

TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

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How bout Nurkic and 3 for Siakam, and then we give Toronto Branham, pick 33, and their future first that we own to snag 13 if Anthony Black is still there. Thus completing the Toronto blow-up that now seems to be inevitable and letting them embrace the tank next season without worrying about falling to 7 or 8 and giving us that pick.

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I don't think Toronto wants Nurkic since they have Jakob.

I think both Anthony Black and Cason Wallace will be gone at 8 and 9. Washington and Utah both need defense and point guards.

Branham, #33 (basically a first) and a first is WAY too much to give up for #13. I don't know that I would give up that much for #8 from Washington.

The Athletic Proposal

Pistons receive: Keldon Johnson and a 2024 first-round pick (via Toronto)
Spurs receive: The No. 5 pick in the 2023 NBA Draft

James L. Edwards III: My logic here was pretty simple: Johnson fills a void for the Pistons as a solid offensive wing who can be effective without the ball. His defense can be better, and I think it could be in a more winning situation. He'll only be 24 when next season starts and, in my opinion, is on a valuable contract (4 years/$74 million). His annual salary decreases in the deal's first three years, which starts next season. The Pistons also get a future first because I don't believe Johnson alone is worth the No. 5 pick in this draft.

Why would the Spurs do this, you ask? Well, San Antonio could use the No. 5 pick to get a different wing or forward who, like future Spur Wembanyama, will be on a rookie deal for the next few seasons. It'll open up even more cap space for San Antonio this summer, as well. I just don't see Johnson with the Spurs by the time they're truly contenders again, so I could see a deal like this benefitting both sides. Cam Whitmore or Amen Thompson would be fun alongside Wembanyama, no?

Alex Schiffer: "This trade really comes down to the Spurs timeline and how they want to go about their rebuild, but moving Johnson for the pick allows them to get another young player to align both time- and contract-wise with Wembamyama, while the Pistons get a player ready to help them move up in the standings. There's a case for the Spurs to keep Johnson, too, as he's come up through Pop's system and has room to grow as a player. He could stay and continue to be part of the young core in San Antonio."
Verdict from the opposing beat: "Solid offer"



The Top6 protected Toronto pick is too much w/ Keldon. Keldon is proven, Whitmore or Thompson is not and Keldon's just 23 and on a good contract.

To me, it depends on what Toronto does to remain competitive to decide if their pick is too much to add to the deal.

If the right player is available, I think it's a good deal for the Spurs. Although, Keldon is our culture guy, has embraced south Texas and is by all accounts, a really good influence on our young core. That would be the tough part, giving someone up like that.

I don't see the Spurs trading Johnson. He took a slightly below-market deal. He's a freaking energy bunny maniac and brings a level of aggression and fearlessness that every team needs. He may end up coming off the bench at some point but I like him on this team around Wemby and Sochan.

I don't think anyone is untouchable, and Keldon would get moved before Vassell and Sochan or the ATL picks. But you'd have to give us a lot more than #5 in a 3-player draft.

Unless the Spurs don't view it as a 3 player draft. Or at least not the consensus 3. (I guarantee you they don't have Miller in their top 3).

I promise you KJ is a better player than #5 for at least the next 3 years. You don't want a whole team of projects. Keldon is a vet at this point and had already proven to be a valuable player.

What do we think the Spurs' competitive window is? And what does PATFO see our window as and will it move up based on what other teams are trying to do?

In my head, as of today I say the Spurs are a ~35 win team. If we add younger pieces then I think going into 2024 season I'd expect big jump in Wemby's game in his second season as he acclimates to the longer season. I feel like he'll play 50-60 games as a rookie, ~70 in his 2nd season. That + development from Sochan and Vassell, etc...I think we're looking at a ~50 win season and as soon as you get around 50 wins you're a playoff threat.

If the universe bends and twists enough for a high level 1 and an average-to-good 5 joining the team in time for 2023 opener, that window may open next year and we'll be a playoff team until Wemby can no longer bring it at an all-star level. With a decent job of keeping good players around him I really think going into his 4th season onward a long deep playoff run is inevitable. And hopefully a parade. Or two. Having parades in consecutive years....look I know as a Spurs fan I've seen more greatness than most and if I never see another parade, I'll still see myself having a very charmed fan's life.

But dang. Never been 2 parades back to back years. Wouldn't that be something.

Anybody got any insight on Brandin Podziemski? Definitely looks like somebody the Spurs should be looking at if they keep their 2nd round picks. 6'5" PG that hits 3s and scores at a high level.

jteagle said:

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Anybody got any insight on Brandin Podziemski? Definitely looks like somebody the Spurs should be looking at if they keep their 2nd round picks. 6'5" PG that hits 3s and scores at a high level.

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I see him as more of a combo than a true point, but if he falls to the second round, he'd be a great pick. Shot 43% from 3, led the WCC in rebounding as a guard, has really good passing instincts for setting up teammates. I don't think he has a great first step to consistently get by defenders in the NBA, so I think that's why he may be available in the second.

This is exactly the type of trade I'm hoping the Spurs make. Amen is also a bundle of energy and plays ELITE defense. Your core is Amen, Wemby, Sochan and Vassell, all on super cheap deals, that lets you get creative financially with finding that last piece.

To me Keldon is just a guy, like many other guys available. The Spurs aren't going to win championships with guys, they need studs to do that.

Make the trade, bring in Amen and let the kids play next year, they will likely lose a lot, but that gets us one more lottery ticket to play with, and then you start really trying to compete in earnest.

AggieEP said:

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This is exactly the type of trade I'm hoping the Spurs make. Amen is also a bundle of energy and plays ELITE defense. Your core is Amen, Wemby, Sochan and Vassell, all on super cheap deals, that lets you get creative financially with finding that last piece.

To me Keldon is just a guy, like many other guys available. The Spurs aren't going to win championships with guys, they need studs to do that.

Make the trade, bring in Amen and let the kids play next year, they will likely lose a lot, but that gets us one more lottery ticket to play with, and then you start really trying to compete in earnest.

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I want us to make a move with picks, but that one ain't it.

Amen is likely gone at 4. Keldon is on a very team friendly contract and would be an elite 6th man.

I would move Keldon in a heartbeat for the right deal, but the 5th pick for Keldon (23yo) and a lottery pick ain't it. We can do much better than that

I wonder what all our acquired 1st round picks would get. I am pretty sure we could ship out every one of those in one fell swoop and as long as we keep our native picks every other year it adheres to the Stepien rule.

jteagle said:

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Anybody got any insight on Brandin Podziemski? Definitely looks like somebody the Spurs should be looking at if they keep their 2nd round picks. 6'5" PG that hits 3s and scores at a high level.

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From The Athletic:

Quote:

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Brandin Podziemski | 6-5 guard | Santa Clara | No. 45

A draft darling who excited public evaluators throughout the season, Podziemski was a tale of extremes at the combine. On one hand, he tested better than expected with a 39-inch vertical leap that got some attention. On the other hand, he measured with just an 8-0 1/2 standing reach that gave evaluators real pause about his potential to defend. In the first combine game, he produced a near masterpiece, scoring 10 points, dishing out seven assists and grabbing eight rebounds. In the second game, he was completely invisible. Where does this leave him?

Podziemski is polarizing, which is unsurprising given his journey. His counting stats of 19.9 points, 8.8 rebounds and 3.7 assists are outstanding. He's a great shooter and hit 43.8 percent of his 3s this past season. On the surface, those are high-end numbers, but if you dig deeper, his numbers tanked against quality competition. In his six Tier A games, per KenPom, Podziemski had just a 53.8 true shooting percentage and saw his rebounding rate and assist rate drop by about 25 percent. In the five games he played against top-50 KenPom defenses, he averaged just 13.2 points and 5.2 rebounds.

This would probably be worth overlooking as small sample, but the track record on players who transferred from the high-major level down to a lower level is not exactly long or littered with immense success stories. Outside of players who moved to powerhouse Gonzaga, only five such down-transfers have been selected going back through the 2011 NBA Draft. And I'm not sure any are entirely equivalent to Podziemski, who simply couldn't get on the floor at Illinois then became a draft prospect at what a person could reasonably consider a mid-major in Santa Clara.

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https://theathletic.com/4536345/2023/05/23/nba-draft-combine-takeaways-olivier-maxence-prosper/?source=nbatw

superunknown said:

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I wonder what all our acquired 1st round picks would get. I am pretty sure we could ship out every one of those in one fell swoop and as long as we keep our native picks every other year it adheres to the Stepien rule.

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Yeah, we can move all those picks plus our own in alternative years.

24 spurs
24 Charlotte lottery protection
24 Toronto top 6 protected
25 Chicago top 10 protected
25 hawks unprotected
25 Spurs
26 Hawks unprotected pick swap (get the best of Spurs and Hawks picks
27 Spurs
27 hawks unprotected
28 Spurs or Celtics, best pick, top 1 protected

Plus 25 second round picks with all kinds of stupid various clauses

So keep the hawks picks and trade the Spurs picks in 27 and 25, since the hawks will be better.

Nine first round picks in the next 4 years and we can trade all but two.

Ideally, we keep:
24 Spurs
25 Hawks
26 Spurs/Hawks Swap
27 Hawks

And move the other five picks plus some of the two dozens seconds. Still have a very good pick every year and being in the right mix of players.

That's kinda how I sorted it out in my head as well. Those future Hawks picks gonna be tasty. I mean if the right player was there I would have no issue dealing literally everyone of those other 1st rounders. The 2nds...yeah ok great. Portion those out as a lil bit o lagniappe for greasing some of the deals that are bound to happen.

Sir Daniel Green of North Babylon

Quote:

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"I think he'll find a way to humble him a little bit, but at the same time, let him be himself and be great and [teach him] how to play with his teammates and know that the game is bigger than him and you're gonna need your teammates to win. Certain coaches may not coach that way. They let their star players do whatever they want. But Pop is gonna let him know, you need these guys to be great, and they need you to be great, so you can't let them down, and vice versa."

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Yo let's go pick off Horford, Derrick White, and Grant Williams from this Celtics team that's clearly about to blow it up.

TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

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Yo let's go pick off Horford, Derrick White, and Grant Williams from this Celtics team that's clearly about to blow it up.

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Big Al is turning 37 next week in Cancun.

I'm not sure what Grant Williams is worth, but he turned down a 4y50mm deal and wants more. He's been overly or +2 or less in all but one playoff game. I'd love to bring White home and give him the starting PG slot. I do think he's a bit overpaid at 2y39mm left, though. Especially when Caruso is the same age and a better defender at 2y18mm.

I think that's why all 3 could be reasonably gettable if they're hitting reset. Al may be old but he's only on a 2/19 after this year and would be a great fit and influence. Grant has been criminally underplayed and that may have tanked his value some. Derrick is def a little overpaid and we have just the cap space to absorb that into. I like the idea of specifically targeting vets who have made it far into the playoffs like the Celtics guys, Brook Lopez, Bruce Brown, Draymond, etc. Show our young guns that we accomplished what we needed to from the tank and that it's time to start winning and that we believe they can win if surrounded by the right guys.

That's why I proposed a couple weeks ago:

Trade for OG Anonuby and move Keldon to 6th man. (2018 championship)
Trade for Caruso and start him at PG. (2020 Championship)
Sign Naz Reid
Sign Bruce Brown (2023 championship)
Sign George Hill for Vet Min. Maybe Danny Green.

Naz Reid/ Zach Collins/ Bassey
Wemby/ Sochan / Doug (if not traded)
OG Anunoby / Keldon
Vassell / Branham (if not traded)
Caruso / Bruce Brown / Wesley (if not traded)

You had me at OG. Been wanting him ever since he was a rumored part of the Kawhi deal. Love your plan.

Also I had one of those random thoughts a few days ago and seeing you mention George Hill reminded me of this random thought...

We're off and on speculating how long Pop will coach...and most importantly who takes over. Does he hand the keys to Brett or a returning Bud? Does Mitch Johnson move into the big chair? Do they bring back Becky? I think I mentioned a couple of pages before Wembanyamamania that I hope Manu joins the bench for 2-3 years and takes over for Pop.

Here's a long shot for ya...what if it's George Hill? I figure he'll retire in another 3-5 years...I think he'd be a great veteran PG and overall locker room vet. He still loves SA. He tweeted the other day a pic of him and his dad (who's like a VIA mechanic or something) and he's Pop's favorite player. He's got a great presence and demeanor. It would not be a shock to me at all if he goes into coaching when he's done.

As excited as I am for the 2023 season....man, I think that 2029 season or so is fun as hell to think about.

And I think we can make all those moves while keeping a FRP every single year like I posted above.

The difficult thing will be in 3-4 years when everyone gets paid. OG probably gets 25-30/year. Wemby will get the max. Who knows what Sochan and Devin get, but probably 20+/year. But that's why you keep a juicy pick (Thanks, Atlanta!) to keep fresh talent coming in and you trade off guys before they get too expensive.

Yeah I think for the foreseeable future it's Wemby and Sochan as the core, and we'll have really good options around them..as they age out and max out they'll either be kept (hopefully at cost+ and no max) or replaced with younger potential on rookie deals. The front office could not be more equipped to handle literally any growth scenario for the next 5 years. Like we got to hit the "new franchise" mode and start over. It's pretty mind-blowing to me.

Some of yall clearly don't watch much NBA or have not paid any attention at all to the way the Spurs operate. With the style of offense and defense the Spurs want to play there are going to be specific types of players pursued.