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2017 DisAstros thread

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Joker98
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10:10a, 7/20/17
AG
Back to Astros talk:

What moves are made before the trade deadline? I'm starting to come out on the side of another good back end reliever to shorten games rather than a starter. If we can get both, great, but the market for starters is very thin and may not be worth the prospects. A good back end guy can ease the burden on our current guys and make it to where we really only need 5-6 innings out of some of our starters.

The way Peacock and Fiers have pitched, combined with Keuchel and McHugh coming back almost makes me feel like we can roll with our current staff. I'm hoping McCullers gets it back together, as his last 2 starts after the break have been bad.

What do y'all think?
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10:13a, 7/20/17
The Wonderer
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In reply to Joker98 • 10:18a, 7/20/17
AG
Joker98 said:
Back to Astros talk:

What moves are made before the trade deadline? I'm starting to come out on the side of another good back end reliever to shorten games rather than a starter. If we can get both, great, but the market for starters is very thin and may not be worth the prospects. A good back end guy can ease the burden on our current guys and make it to where we really only need 5-6 innings out of some of our starters.

The way Peacock and Fiers have pitched, combined with Keuchel and McHugh coming back almost makes me feel like we can roll with our current staff. I'm hoping McCullers gets it back together, as his last 2 starts after the break have been bad.

What do y'all think?
If they're going to procure a pitcher, I agree on a middle reliever.
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88jrt06
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10:39a, 7/20/17
AG
I'm still a bit worried about Kuechel. I've got similar issues, and they tend recur (just like earlier).

McHugh...who knows? If, this late, he can stay in the rotation around a 4.00/4.50 ERA, then that's gravy to me.

Peacock has just been amazing, especially in terms of innings/start (and, duh, wins). Will he fade, given that nobody expected him to go this many innings, especially starter's innings?

Every time I start to give up on Fiers.....dayum! Think he's back this time.

The fact that there's some question (injuries, wear/tear) about most of "the four", a Sonny Gray deal would seem smart to me. However, Gray's value has been shooting up as other FAs disappear, plus he's had his mojo back
the last couple months. Even with *some* damaged goods, the 'stros still have the FOUR above to sort through.
That's a lot!

tl;dr: I wanted another starter. Price too high for best avail, probably. We've got a lot on board, gimpy or not. So, now agree that mid-relief should be the trade goal (but GET ONE!). Crucial for playoffs.
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Texaggie7nine
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In reply to Mr. McGibblets • 10:46a, 7/20/17
I ran into him at the Marqee IMAX once and I said "Hey, it's you!" and he replied "yep".

My cousin from Dallas was with me and he asked who it was and I told him John McClain and he said "that's not Bruce Willis".
7nine
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sts7049
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10:55a, 7/20/17
AG
i think we get another starter. peacock can be in the pen as a long reliever.
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98Ag99Grad
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10:59a, 7/20/17
AG
Qucik McClain story. back when the oilers had training camp in San Antonio, my dad and I were playing golf at Tapatio Springs in Boerne. Well in walks McClain and he acts just like Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack saying he needs shoes, balls, clubs, etc for his round today. Came off as a real ass. And yes, he was heavy then too.
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The Wonderer
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In reply to sts7049 • 11:14a, 7/20/17
AG
sts7049 said:
i think we get another starter. peacock can be in the pen as a long reliever.
Going to cost too much for a quality pitcher in my opinion. Not worth giving up top prospects or currents.
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Joker98
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In reply to 88jrt06 • 11:18a, 7/20/17
AG
I think this is where I come out as well, but I'd like a good set up guy to complement Harris. Gregerson has been better as of late, but I still don't fully trust him.

I'm thinking back to our last division title when games were closed out by Lidge to Dotel to Wagner. That bullpen was nails down the stretch with those 3 guys. And then Dierker screws it all up by putting in Mike Jackson in the 7th in game 1 of the NLCS against the braves and we go on to lose.
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aTm2004
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In reply to The Wonderer • 11:22a, 7/20/17
AG
You don't want to mortgage the farm, but if there's a time to give up prospects, it's now. The Astros are in a great position to win a WS, and you have to take that chance. Otherwise, what's the point of it all? It's not like we're looking at a WC spot and trying to just ensure we make the playoffs.
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The Wonderer
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In reply to aTm2004 • 11:23a, 7/20/17
AG
aTm2004 said:
You don't want to mortgage the farm, but if there's a time to give up prospects, it's now. The Astros are in a great position to win a WS, and you have to take that chance. Otherwise, what's the point of it all? It's not like we're looking at a WC spot and trying to just ensure we make the playoffs.
I don't want to give up TOP prospects. I expect we'll be filling some spots in the next 1-3 years.
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The Milkman
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11:25a, 7/20/17
AG
You do everything you can to win a World Series when there's a legitimate opportunity. Fix the holes later that you created to get the title
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88jrt06
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11:30a, 7/20/17
AG
Ha! Forgot about Octavio! The no-tell Dotel. Couple great Astro years.

Lidge, Dotel and Wagner, all at their peak.
96-101 mph, wicked sliders. Good times.

Yeah, think we need a guy who can get you 6-9 outs in the middle innings.
Playoffs are just different for pitchers, unless you're the ace.
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David_Puddy
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In reply to The Wonderer • 11:32a, 7/20/17
AG
The Wonderer said:
aTm2004 said:
You don't want to mortgage the farm, but if there's a time to give up prospects, it's now. The Astros are in a great position to win a WS, and you have to take that chance. Otherwise, what's the point of it all? It's not like we're looking at a WC spot and trying to just ensure we make the playoffs.
I don't want to give up TOP prospects. I expect we'll be filling some spots in the next 1-3 years.

Yea, I'm just glad that Scott Boras is only representing 1 of the big 3 (Altuve). For some reason I thought he represented Correa as well, but it's someone else.
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sts7049
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In reply to gougler08 • 11:51a, 7/20/17
AG
actually looks like she is out on maternity leave
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aTm2004
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In reply to The Wonderer • 11:53a, 7/20/17
AG
The Wonderer said:
aTm2004 said:
You don't want to mortgage the farm, but if there's a time to give up prospects, it's now. The Astros are in a great position to win a WS, and you have to take that chance. Otherwise, what's the point of it all? It's not like we're looking at a WC spot and trying to just ensure we make the playoffs.
I don't want to give up TOP prospects. I expect we'll be filling some spots in the next 1-3 years.
When it comes to winning a championship, you sometimes have to. Would you rather fill some spots in 1-3 years with or without a WS title? I know what my choice would be.

Also, you have to think that if you win a WS this year, some of those guys may not go elsewhere because Crane & Co may be willing to pay a bit more to keep the nucleus of the team here if there's a shot at winning more WS titles.
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The Wonderer
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In reply to aTm2004 • 1:35p, 7/20/17
AG
aTm2004 said:
The Wonderer said:
aTm2004 said:
You don't want to mortgage the farm, but if there's a time to give up prospects, it's now. The Astros are in a great position to win a WS, and you have to take that chance. Otherwise, what's the point of it all? It's not like we're looking at a WC spot and trying to just ensure we make the playoffs.
I don't want to give up TOP prospects. I expect we'll be filling some spots in the next 1-3 years.
When it comes to winning a championship, you sometimes have to. Would you rather fill some spots in 1-3 years with or without a WS title? I know what my choice would be.

Also, you have to think that if you win a WS this year, some of those guys may not go elsewhere because Crane & Co may be willing to pay a bit more to keep the nucleus of the team here if there's a shot at winning more WS titles.
Thought the same things in 2005. How'd that work out?
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Finn Maccumhail
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In reply to The Wonderer • 1:54p, 7/20/17
AG
The Wonderer said:
aTm2004 said:
The Wonderer said:
aTm2004 said:
You don't want to mortgage the farm, but if there's a time to give up prospects, it's now. The Astros are in a great position to win a WS, and you have to take that chance. Otherwise, what's the point of it all? It's not like we're looking at a WC spot and trying to just ensure we make the playoffs.
I don't want to give up TOP prospects. I expect we'll be filling some spots in the next 1-3 years.
When it comes to winning a championship, you sometimes have to. Would you rather fill some spots in 1-3 years with or without a WS title? I know what my choice would be.

Also, you have to think that if you win a WS this year, some of those guys may not go elsewhere because Crane & Co may be willing to pay a bit more to keep the nucleus of the team here if there's a shot at winning more WS titles.
Thought the same things in 2005. How'd that work out?

Not remotely the same thing. The Astros were a relatively old ball club in 2005 and had no prospects whatsoever to trade. They signed Andy Pettite as a FA and Roger Clemens had officially retired after the 2004 season before deciding to comeback and sign with Houston.

The "young" core players they had were Berkman, Adam Everett, and MAYBE Morgan Ensberg. And of those 3 only Berkman would be equal to the guys they've got now.

The Astros are a big market team and have a ton of room to resign Altuve, Correa, Springer, and everybody they need to. There's almost no prospects they have no who are a legit threat to replace their current players inside the next 3 years.

Trade the prospects now.
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The Wonderer
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In reply to Finn Maccumhail • 1:57p, 7/20/17
AG
Finn Maccumhail said:
The Wonderer said:
aTm2004 said:
The Wonderer said:
aTm2004 said:
You don't want to mortgage the farm, but if there's a time to give up prospects, it's now. The Astros are in a great position to win a WS, and you have to take that chance. Otherwise, what's the point of it all? It's not like we're looking at a WC spot and trying to just ensure we make the playoffs.
I don't want to give up TOP prospects. I expect we'll be filling some spots in the next 1-3 years.
When it comes to winning a championship, you sometimes have to. Would you rather fill some spots in 1-3 years with or without a WS title? I know what my choice would be.

Also, you have to think that if you win a WS this year, some of those guys may not go elsewhere because Crane & Co may be willing to pay a bit more to keep the nucleus of the team here if there's a shot at winning more WS titles.
Thought the same things in 2005. How'd that work out?

Not remotely the same thing. The Astros were a relatively old ball club in 2005 and had no prospects whatsoever to trade. They signed Andy Pettite as a FA and Roger Clemens had officially retired after the 2004 season before deciding to comeback and sign with Houston.

The "young" core players they had were Berkman, Adam Everett, and MAYBE Morgan Ensberg. And of those 3 only Berkman would be equal to the guys they've got now.

The Astros are a big market team and have a ton of room to resign Altuve, Correa, Springer, and everybody they need to. There's almost no prospects they have no who are a legit threat to replace their current players inside the next 3 years.

Trade the prospects now.
Agree to disagree. It's taken 12 years to rebuild our system. I don't want to go through that again.
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BowSowy
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In reply to The Wonderer • 2:04p, 7/20/17
AG
But at the same time, the potential trade targets being talked about aren't aging former-superstars (well, except for Verlander). They are young, controllable guys. Lunhow and co. have shown that they are good at evaluating and developing talent, that's why most are okay with letting some of that unproven talent go for proven, young talent. The core of this team is set up for sustained success, and the pipeline is stocked. If trading for Gray means we drop from 7th in prospect rankings to 12th, is that really a big deal?
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The Wonderer
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In reply to BowSowy • 2:11p, 7/20/17
AG
BowSowy said:
But at the same time, the potential trade targets being talked about aren't aging former-superstars (well, except for Verlander). They are young, controllable guys. Lunhow and co. have shown that they are good at evaluating and developing talent, that's why most are okay with letting some of that unproven talent go for proven, young talent. The core of this team is set up for sustained success, and the pipeline is stocked. If trading for Gray means we drop from 7th in prospect rankings to 12th, is that really a big deal?
This doesn't bother. If it's younger talent, I think a discussion is warranted. I agree with Finn in that the circs are different than the 05 team, but I'd rather win multiple WS than sell the farm for a shot at just one.
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BigPuma
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In reply to The Wonderer • 2:31p, 7/20/17
AG
people are also forgetting, we aren't really missing on not signing our draft picks. Remember uncle drayton didn't want to sign any draft picks for several years.
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aTm2004
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In reply to The Wonderer • 3:16p, 7/20/17
AG
The Wonderer said:
BowSowy said:
But at the same time, the potential trade targets being talked about aren't aging former-superstars (well, except for Verlander). They are young, controllable guys. Lunhow and co. have shown that they are good at evaluating and developing talent, that's why most are okay with letting some of that unproven talent go for proven, young talent. The core of this team is set up for sustained success, and the pipeline is stocked. If trading for Gray means we drop from 7th in prospect rankings to 12th, is that really a big deal?
This doesn't bother. If it's younger talent, I think a discussion is warranted. I agree with Finn in that the circs are different than the 05 team, but I'd rather win multiple WS than sell the farm for a shot at just one.
And you'll be saying the same thing in 3 years if we're legitimate contenders and need to make a move to get us a WS. We are in a great position right now to bring the cub its first WS title, and letting go of some top prospects to do that is worth it. I guess my view is that if you're not willing to do it now, you never will be.
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MAS444
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3:24p, 7/20/17
AG
Yeah that's one of the reasons to have a good, deep farm system. They're not all going to play for the Stros. And it's not like there are 1 or 2 guys were relaying on to make or break our team in the next few years.
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Finn Maccumhail
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In reply to The Wonderer • 4:13p, 7/20/17
AG
The Wonderer said:
Finn Maccumhail said:
The Wonderer said:
aTm2004 said:
The Wonderer said:
aTm2004 said:
You don't want to mortgage the farm, but if there's a time to give up prospects, it's now. The Astros are in a great position to win a WS, and you have to take that chance. Otherwise, what's the point of it all? It's not like we're looking at a WC spot and trying to just ensure we make the playoffs.
I don't want to give up TOP prospects. I expect we'll be filling some spots in the next 1-3 years.
When it comes to winning a championship, you sometimes have to. Would you rather fill some spots in 1-3 years with or without a WS title? I know what my choice would be.

Also, you have to think that if you win a WS this year, some of those guys may not go elsewhere because Crane & Co may be willing to pay a bit more to keep the nucleus of the team here if there's a shot at winning more WS titles.
Thought the same things in 2005. How'd that work out?

Not remotely the same thing. The Astros were a relatively old ball club in 2005 and had no prospects whatsoever to trade. They signed Andy Pettite as a FA and Roger Clemens had officially retired after the 2004 season before deciding to comeback and sign with Houston.

The "young" core players they had were Berkman, Adam Everett, and MAYBE Morgan Ensberg. And of those 3 only Berkman would be equal to the guys they've got now.

The Astros are a big market team and have a ton of room to resign Altuve, Correa, Springer, and everybody they need to. There's almost no prospects they have no who are a legit threat to replace their current players inside the next 3 years.

Trade the prospects now.
Agree to disagree. It's taken 12 years to rebuild our system. I don't want to go through that again.
But for the most part the Astros weren't trading prospects back then because they didn't really have any. They were signing aging free agents rather than investing in their farm system.

They've got an extremely young roster and tons of talent under their control for a couple more years and they'll have the money to pay them.

Of their top-30 prospects they don't have anybody who is a threat to supplant anybody on the big club (aside from being called up due to injuries or late season when the rosters expand) inside the next 3 years which means they've got time to sign new prospects and develop them.

The Astros can win it this year. Trade the prospects to win right now.
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98Ag99Grad
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4:29p, 7/20/17
AG
Quote:
The Astros can win it this year. Trade the prospects to win right now.
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BigPuma
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In reply to Finn Maccumhail • 5:05p, 7/20/17
AG
there are actually 4-5 of the top tier guys that will supplant somebody on the current roster in the next 3 years.

Assuming we don't trade these guys:
Martes and Paulino (technically on the big league club but still a prospect)
Kyle Tucker and Derek Fisher (there will be a need for an outfielder and/or DH spot in the next 3 years maybe as soon as next year.)

Other than that totally valid statement.
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Joker98
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 5:07p, 7/20/17
AG
98Ag99Grad said:
Quote:
The Astros can win it this year. Trade the prospects to win right now.
I agree. My realistic, attainable wishlist is Sonny Gray and a back end reliever like Wilson from the Tigers. While I love the idea of a Verlander, he's not having the best year and his contract is massive. That is a lot of risk to give up top prospects for. I think Gray is a good alternative. A playoff rotation of Keuchel, McCullers, Gray, and McHugh/Fiers/Peacock (in that order) could be salty.
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Al Bula
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9:12p, 7/21/17
AG
It was close but...

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howdydamnit04
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9:08p, 7/22/17
AG
Damn. Hope Moran is ok. That didn't look good. We
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Bondag
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In reply to howdydamnit04 • 9:09p, 7/22/17
AG
Yea. There was a lot of blood. Looked like it hit his eye socket.
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Milwaukees Best Light
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9:12p, 7/22/17
AG
**** yeah!!! Marwin!
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Al Bula
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9:29p, 7/22/17
AG
Tough break for that guy. Hope it's not too bad.
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RABAg04
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10:37p, 7/22/17
AG
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Diggity
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11:41p, 7/22/17
AG
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