2017 DisAstros thread
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Last: 6 yr ago by swimmerbabe11
Altuve - .334
Correa - .320
MarGo - .319
Reddick - .315
Springer - .300
Yuli - .299
That's just nuts
Correa - .320
MarGo - .319
Reddick - .315
Springer - .300
Yuli - .299
That's just nuts
No kidding. That's like a college baseball team lineup.RABAg04 said:
Altuve - .334
Correa - .320
MarGo - .319
Reddick - .315
Springer - .300
Yuli - .299
That's just nuts
Is winning 75% of road games good?
This lineup has no obvious holes. Bag on Bregman and Beltran all you want, but they're not "holes". It wasn't so long ago that after you got past the clean up spot, it was a black hole of misery. The pitching has been pretty good overall so let's see what we can do in the 2nd half. There is no obvious Randy Johnson type stud this year to go get, but we could also use another good arm in the bullpen. At the rate that the current bullpen is being used, they're going to be worn out in September. It's going to be fun!
What if I told you that there is only one Astro relief pitcher in the top 60 in MLB in appearances?
Luke Gregerson has appeared in 36 games and that ranks 51st in MLB.
So yeah they've pitched quite a bit they are doing a nice job of not individually overusing these guys.
Luke Gregerson has appeared in 36 games and that ranks 51st in MLB.
So yeah they've pitched quite a bit they are doing a nice job of not individually overusing these guys.
It wasn't that long ago that we didn't have 6 guys batting over .250
Joker98 said:
This lineup has no obvious holes. Bag on Bregman and Beltran all you want, but they're not "holes". It wasn't so long ago that after you got past the clean up spot, it was a black hole of misery. The pitching has been pretty good overall so let's see what we can do in the 2nd half. There is no obvious Randy Johnson type stud this year to go get, but we could also use another good arm in the bullpen. At the rate that the current bullpen is being used, they're going to be worn out in September. It's going to be fun!
Bregman is in his first full season in the majors and hitting .252 with an OPS of .741 which is on the high-end of average. He's also got a higher OBP than last year and a .972 fielding percentage at 3B. He's a plus defensive player and will get better offensively.
I completely agree with this but I recall folks bagging on him on this thread saying they'd be fine with trading him. The kid is only 2 years out of LSU, he's gonna be fine.
He also came up as a SS and they moved him to 3B for Correa to be at SS. I'd say he's done outstanding for moving over and learning a new position. His bat is "good enough" right now and his defensive play has been above average. Another year or two to develop in the Bigs and he could be an All Star.Joker98 said:
I completely agree with this but I recall folks bagging on him on this thread saying they'd be fine with trading him. The kid is only 2 years out of LSU, he's gonna be fine.
For me, I don't want to trade him, but if there were a top line ace pitcher available he's probably the only position player they can market.The Wonderer said:He also came up as a SS and they moved him to 3B for Correa to be at SS. I'd say he's done outstanding for moving over and learning a new position. His bat is "good enough" right now and his defensive play has been above average. Another year or two to develop in the Bigs and he could be an All Star.Joker98 said:
I completely agree with this but I recall folks bagging on him on this thread saying they'd be fine with trading him. The kid is only 2 years out of LSU, he's gonna be fine.
I want to keep him and don't think we need, or will be able to long-term afford, an ace arm. Correra is going to demand the big bucks when his contract is up and we may just need to let him go and move Bregman over to SS and promote a 3B with a big bat. Read the Crawfish Boxes article I posted a couple pages back. It talks about trades made for a WS run and how doing so in 2005 destroyed the 2006 and subsequent year teams because of the lack of a solid farm system.RABAg04 said:For me, I don't want to trade him, but if there were a top line ace pitcher available he's probably the only position player they can market.The Wonderer said:He also came up as a SS and they moved him to 3B for Correa to be at SS. I'd say he's done outstanding for moving over and learning a new position. His bat is "good enough" right now and his defensive play has been above average. Another year or two to develop in the Bigs and he could be an All Star.Joker98 said:
I completely agree with this but I recall folks bagging on him on this thread saying they'd be fine with trading him. The kid is only 2 years out of LSU, he's gonna be fine.
What trades for arms in 2005 are we talking about????
What trades were made in 2005?
And some of the pitchers being mentioned are controllable for multiple years.
For example...
Jose Quintana is making 6M in 2017, 8.8M in 2018, and 10.5M in 2019 and 2020.
Sonny Gray is making 3.75M in 2017 and is controllable for another two years
That's cheap as hell for solid pitching. Hell the Astros are currently paying Beltran 16M and that is most likely coming off the books next year.
As long as it's not for someone like Verlander who's making 28M for next four years then they can afford it.
And some of the pitchers being mentioned are controllable for multiple years.
For example...
Jose Quintana is making 6M in 2017, 8.8M in 2018, and 10.5M in 2019 and 2020.
Sonny Gray is making 3.75M in 2017 and is controllable for another two years
That's cheap as hell for solid pitching. Hell the Astros are currently paying Beltran 16M and that is most likely coming off the books next year.
As long as it's not for someone like Verlander who's making 28M for next four years then they can afford it.
Sorry, not arms just the handling of "old talent" and free agency and the selling off of our farm system. Brain fart.JJxvi said:
What trades for arms in 2005 are we talking about????
Our farm system was not sold off. If was purposefully left to languish. If the idea is that we sucked after 2006 because McLane spent all his money on Pettitte and Clemens or whatever then thats a bunch of horse***** McLane was just a cheap ass who hoped to win a title before cashing out, and to offset the expense for his shiny new toys he decided we didn't need to spend on pesky things like draft picks, or signing international players, or all those other things that good teams, even ones with small payrolls have no problem spending money on.
In what world can the Astros not afford to pay for a couple of big-time arms and pay their position players? They can afford to pay Altuve, Correa, Springer, Bregman, and their pitchers a lot more than they are now. Plus, you've Beltran making $16MM who won't be on the roster in a year or two at the most.
Their payroll is 17th in the league at just shy of $134MM this year. The Dodgers are at $247.6MM and the Rangers are a little over $190MM.
The Astros ain't some small-market club who needs be stingy with their payroll like the A's. They can't be stupid by getting crap ROI on high-dollar, aging veterans who under-perform like so many guys at the end of the McLane era.
The Astros can afford a payroll right up there with the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, and Dodgers.
If they pay to keep this core of players and young arms together plus sign a couple long-term stud arms (starting & bullpen) then they could be on the cusp of a run like the Braves had throughout the 90's and early-2000's.
If the Astros don't pay to keep these guys together then you'll see a serious backlash against Crane & co.
Their payroll is 17th in the league at just shy of $134MM this year. The Dodgers are at $247.6MM and the Rangers are a little over $190MM.
The Astros ain't some small-market club who needs be stingy with their payroll like the A's. They can't be stupid by getting crap ROI on high-dollar, aging veterans who under-perform like so many guys at the end of the McLane era.
The Astros can afford a payroll right up there with the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, and Dodgers.
If they pay to keep this core of players and young arms together plus sign a couple long-term stud arms (starting & bullpen) then they could be on the cusp of a run like the Braves had throughout the 90's and early-2000's.
If the Astros don't pay to keep these guys together then you'll see a serious backlash against Crane & co.
JJxvi said:
Our farm system was not sold off. If was purposefully left to languish. If the idea is that we sucked after 2006 because McLane spent all his money on Pettitte and Clemens or whatever then thats a bunch of horse***** McLane was just a cheap ass who hoped to win a title before cashing out, and to offset the expense for his shiny new toys he decided we didn't need to spend on pesky things like draft picks, or signing international players, or all those other things that good teams, even ones with small payrolls have no problem spending money on.
McLane wasn't cheap he was stupid.
Go look at the payroll back then. The club spent a ton of money on aging talent who dramatically under-performed relative to their salaries.
I hope they don't trade Correa, he has MVP potential. I think Bregman could be a really good player and I don't want him traded, but he's the only one in my opinion that could be traded for another ace to try and win now.The Wonderer said:I want to keep him and don't think we need, or will be able to long-term afford, an ace arm. Correra is going to demand the big bucks when his contract is up and we may just need to let him go and move Bregman over to SS and promote a 3B with a big bat. Read the Crawfish Boxes article I posted a couple pages back. It talks about trades made for a WS run and how doing so in 2005 destroyed the 2006 and subsequent year teams because of the lack of a solid farm system.RABAg04 said:For me, I don't want to trade him, but if there were a top line ace pitcher available he's probably the only position player they can market.The Wonderer said:He also came up as a SS and they moved him to 3B for Correa to be at SS. I'd say he's done outstanding for moving over and learning a new position. His bat is "good enough" right now and his defensive play has been above average. Another year or two to develop in the Bigs and he could be an All Star.Joker98 said:
I completely agree with this but I recall folks bagging on him on this thread saying they'd be fine with trading him. The kid is only 2 years out of LSU, he's gonna be fine.
for 3B they have JD Davis for the future and MarGo now.
Yall are insane if you even slightly think they'll trade a 22 year old who is producing at the major league level.
I don't think anyone (of consequence) is getting traded off the major league roster. The two prime prospects that will be dangled are Derek Fisher and Francis Martes. As good a player as Correa is proving to be, it would be stupid to let him walk. I am betting they don't. Of the BIg 3, the guy I think will eventually leave is George Springer. It's far easier to replace an outfielder than a franchise SS with Correa's bat.
Yeah there's a lot of trade bait in the minors.
A ton of money? I don't think so. McLane's high water mark was 8th, and only got that high after what was a pretty stark shift to not even trying to develop talent. McLane was stupid, I agree, because he didnt understand that even most high dollar teams won because of their strong minor league systems.Finn Maccumhail said:JJxvi said:
Our farm system was not sold off. If was purposefully left to languish. If the idea is that we sucked after 2006 because McLane spent all his money on Pettitte and Clemens or whatever then thats a bunch of horse***** McLane was just a cheap ass who hoped to win a title before cashing out, and to offset the expense for his shiny new toys he decided we didn't need to spend on pesky things like draft picks, or signing international players, or all those other things that good teams, even ones with small payrolls have no problem spending money on.
McLane wasn't cheap he was stupid.
Go look at the payroll back then. The club spent a ton of money on aging talent who dramatically under-performed relative to their salaries.
Payroll Ranks
1998-13th
1999-12th
2000-19th (Enron Field era)
2001-17th
2002-14th
2003-14th
2004-12th (End of Hunsicker era)
2005-12th
2006-8th
2007-14th (low point of idiocy era. 4 players Astros drafted in 2007 played in the majors, all 4 did not sign with Astros)
2008-14th
2009-8th
2010-14th
2011-20th (Crane buys team)
2012-28th
2013-30th
2014-30th
2015-29th
2016-30th
2017-18th
McClane got stupid not signing draft picks because he refused to pay more than the "slot" price. Even though it was allowed, it was frowned upon by Bud Selig and McClane always toed the line with Selig for whatever reason. Don't forget the infamous "home game" we played in Milwaukee against the Cubs that probably cost us the division in 2008 I believe.
There are more examples of his bumbling ways. While the Astros enjoyed most of their success under his ownership, he really did leave them in terrible shape when Crane bought them from a competitive standpoint. Hopefully Crane doesn't squander the opportunity in front of him now to be a contending team for several more years to come. The pieces are in place.
There are more examples of his bumbling ways. While the Astros enjoyed most of their success under his ownership, he really did leave them in terrible shape when Crane bought them from a competitive standpoint. Hopefully Crane doesn't squander the opportunity in front of him now to be a contending team for several more years to come. The pieces are in place.
He's been pretty strict to follow his game plan that he laid out from the date of purchase. Build the farm up and become competitive in the late 20-teens. He knew it wasn't going to be an overnight turnaround, but he wanted to be competitive year after year once getting everything back to the way it should be.Joker98 said:
Hopefully Crane doesn't squander the opportunity in front of him now to be a contending team for several more years to come. The pieces are in place.
Not sure when it'll happen, but Correa will eventually outgrow/age out of the SS position and slide to 3rd.Joker98 said:
I don't think anyone (of consequence) is getting traded off the major league roster. The two prime prospects that will be dangled are Derek Fisher and Francis Martes. As good a player as Correa is proving to be, it would be stupid to let him walk. I am betting they don't. Of the BIg 3, the guy I think will eventually leave is George Springer. It's far easier to replace an outfielder than a franchise SS with Correa's bat.
Hopefully after a few MVPs and World Series ChampionshipsHvilleAggie said:Not sure when it'll happen, but Correa will eventually outgrow/age out of the SS position and slide to 3rd.Joker98 said:
I don't think anyone (of consequence) is getting traded off the major league roster. The two prime prospects that will be dangled are Derek Fisher and Francis Martes. As good a player as Correa is proving to be, it would be stupid to let him walk. I am betting they don't. Of the BIg 3, the guy I think will eventually leave is George Springer. It's far easier to replace an outfielder than a franchise SS with Correa's bat.
HvilleAggie said:Not sure when it'll happen, but Correa will eventually outgrow/age out of the SS position and slide to 3rd.Joker98 said:
I don't think anyone (of consequence) is getting traded off the major league roster. The two prime prospects that will be dangled are Derek Fisher and Francis Martes. As good a player as Correa is proving to be, it would be stupid to let him walk. I am betting they don't. Of the BIg 3, the guy I think will eventually leave is George Springer. It's far easier to replace an outfielder than a franchise SS with Correa's bat.
A-Rod only moved to 3B after 10 years and a move to the Yankees where Jeter was entrenched at SS.
And baseball ain't exactly known for being all that accurate with heights and weights. A-Rod was listed at 6'3" 230 while Jeter was listed as 6'3" 195. Personally I think those figures were off, but that's just by an eyeball test. I would have put A-Rod close to 245 and Jeter around 210.
Correa is listed as 6'4" 215 and that looks about right. Personally, I think he looks substantially closer to Jeter than A-Rod.
Historically, Cal Ripken, Jr. was listed as 6'4" 200 but I'm thinking was closer to 215 as well.
Point being, Correa may age out of SS but it's not at all preordained that he'll get too big to play SS.
Drayton McLanes biggest issue was he couldnt admit after 2005 the team wasn't built to win it all and needed to be rebuilt. When they traded for Aubrey Huff I knew he was delusional. Huff was a solid player but it wasn't like getting Beltran in 2004 but in Draytons eyes it was the same.
He wasn't signing draft picks and the minor league was depleted from previous trades. Anyone paying attention knew those horrible seasons were coming and they did.
I was frustrated with McLane at the end but he's the most successful owner the Astros have ever had so you have to give him some credit for what he did as to me the positive outweigh the negatives in the end.
He wasn't signing draft picks and the minor league was depleted from previous trades. Anyone paying attention knew those horrible seasons were coming and they did.
I was frustrated with McLane at the end but he's the most successful owner the Astros have ever had so you have to give him some credit for what he did as to me the positive outweigh the negatives in the end.
A great deal, as far as I can tell, of being a decent sports owner is simply caring whether you win or not, and McLane did have that. The corners that were cut after 2004 were crazy, and I think clearly meant to scrounge out a few extra bucks because he either thought an organization could be patched together with duct tape and clothespins or because he knew he wasn't going to own the team for ten more years.
The Astros success left when Hunsicker did.
After that McClane hired Pupura. not only was he completely incompetent as a GM but McClane meddled quite a bit more.
After that McClane hired Pupura. not only was he completely incompetent as a GM but McClane meddled quite a bit more.
I don't know what McLane's motives were but he seemed to think he could keep the organization winning by signing such great, veteran free agents </heavy sarcasm> like:
-Carlos Lee
- Kaz Matsui
-Aaron Boone
-Darin Erstad
-Ivan Rodriguez
All of those guys were very good to great players (HOF in Rodriguez's case) in their day but it was abundantly clear that when the Astros signed these guys they were just hanging on for another payday. I guess McLane thought the club could win enough with these guys and they'd have enough star power to keep selling a bunch of tickets.
-Carlos Lee
- Kaz Matsui
-Aaron Boone
-Darin Erstad
-Ivan Rodriguez
All of those guys were very good to great players (HOF in Rodriguez's case) in their day but it was abundantly clear that when the Astros signed these guys they were just hanging on for another payday. I guess McLane thought the club could win enough with these guys and they'd have enough star power to keep selling a bunch of tickets.
Selling tickets. Need a big signing to get the folks excited again!Quote:
I don't know what McLane's motives were
You forgot Miguel Tejada and his 13M/year
Granted he did produce but we gave up a big haul to land him and paid him quite a bit.
Granted he did produce but we gave up a big haul to land him and paid him quite a bit.
I did.Ag_07 said:
You forgot Miguel Tejada and his 13M/year
Granted he did produce but we gave up a big haul to land him and paid him quite a bit.
I meant to put him and got sidetracked when looking at the guys we signed over the 2006-2011 seasons and forgot to add him to the post.
He hit for a good average but he had zero pop when we expected him to be about a 25 HR guy and he led the league in grounding into double plays both years with the Astros. His OPS also dropped off a cliff here.
He gets included in that list above because the Astros paid way too steep of a price to get him and he under-performed relative to his cost.
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