Advocating treatment that actually works is not satanic. Viewing children in terms of their ability to breed, though, is absolutely satanic.

May the Spirit move in the hearts of those, like Abigail Shrier, who actively seek to profit off the harm of children. Who hide behind the opinions of non-affirming parents at the detriment of their children...heck, purposely ignoring the voices of their children...in order to inflict pain on those they do not understand. Sadly, their cancer has been embraced by far too many of my brothers and sisters because it simply conforms to their preconceptions rooted in junior high biology.

Pacifist, do you believe there are theological principles at play at all when it comes to living in a way consistent with one's biological sex? Or, is it a purely medical question? Do you believe Christianity has an established orthodox position on such matters? For the sake of that question assume no chromosomal abnormalities.

Actually, this shows just how little the OP understands about the topic. The treatment of gender dysphoria will look different in each person. Some trans people never have medical intervention. Some, where the dysphoria is more severe, may have hormonal treatment but not surgical.

If the OP had even a junior high level understanding of the topic, they'd understand that the treatment (and treatment isn't a "soothing" term. It's literally what it is) will vary based on the person. But this would require that the OP pull their head out of their 4th point of contact long enough to actually engage with a trans person for the purpose of learning instead of condemning.

I don't believe this is a subject that they could comprehend in ancient days. It's not a subject addressed in scripture, but I do wholeheartedly believe that this is the path the Lord has laid before me. Countless hours of prayer, therapy, talks with ministers across the theological spectrum...but mostly so much prayer, gave me peace about how I was to treat my dysphoria.

I do appreciate the question though. That's what I'm talking about w/ diehard as well. Genuine, sincere questions to try to understand. You don't need to agree, but there's the appearance of trying to understand. As opposed to others on this thread who have zero interest in understanding. They're just fixated on the breeding abilities of children.


***edited to add***
I think the closest that scripture comes to addressing this subject is with regards to eunuchs (Matt 19:12). It's not a perfect comparison, but I know my faith has deepened tremendously since transitioning. So I could argue that I transitioned for the sake of the Kingdom. This is supported by the fact that because my faith has deepened, and I've become vocal about who I am and my faith, my wife and I have counseled several Christian couples and, if you ask them, saved them from divorce.

Redstone said:

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They're just fixated on the breeding abilities of children.

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What a ridiculous joke of a sentence.

The "fixation" is to maintain the status quo of development that has occurred billions of times…
instead of sterilization.

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Okay, I know I've said it before, but this really will be my last response to you. This isn't going to be angry, but just honest but respectful.

Their reproductive ability is none of your damn business. It's not the business of politicians, and it's gross to want to use the coercive power of an inherently violent state to interfere with the medical decisions of another. I get that you don't like it, but quite frankly it's not your call. It's a decision that should be solely up to patient/guardian and doctor. You don't have any comprehension of what gender dysphoria is like. You don't have any comprehension of the sheer torture that it is. You have absolutely no right to condemn these children to a lifetime of torture because you don't like the effects of the treatment. It's like telling a child cancer patient that they can't undergo chemotherapy because the effects may sterilize them. That's simply not your decision, nor should it be.

I get that you don't like that which you don't understand. But it's simply none of your business. These treatments are not forced on anyone. They are only done after years of therapy and medical consultation. They are not made lightly. But for some random stranger to come along and say "I know better than you, your doctor, or your parents as to what you should do" is the height of arrogance. You can rant and rave all you want, but it's not your call. And to give the government authority to ban internationally recognized courses of treatment for something that you don't understand is a pandora's box that you will regret opening. Politicians have no business making medical decisions for you, me, or anyone other than themselves. Just like I wouldn't want AOC or Lauren Boebert to make medical decisions for you, they shouldn't be making them for me or for trans kids. You are a stranger who has no understanding of what they're struggling with, nor of their medical history. It's not your call.

I appreciate the answer.

Any time. I do appreciate those who seem to want to understand more. The overwhelming number of Americans have never met a trans person, so trying to understand means everything to us. There's nothing nefarious about us. We aren't out there trying to recruit kids. The overwhelming majority of us simply want to live our lives without without having to constantly defend our existence from those who have no desire to understand us.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask.

What is your understanding of the physiology behind sex and identity?

Redstone said:

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The human body was made to the glory of its Creator and is a means of our salvation, if we subjugate our desires to Order and Reason, which is a divine Person.

The deep, well developed teachings of the Apostolic faith guide our conduct toward this good - the telos of life being theosis toward communion with this Logos.

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Order and reason? As defined, how, exactly? There are dozens of schools across the world on what constitutes that and most of those are woefully ignorant of neurology and evolution. As for the body, half of fertilized embryos never develop, and you're saying children born with, let's say, Transposition of the Great Arteries, are given a body that glorifies the creator and is means for salvation? They're dead in weeks without massive surgery only recently possible. Your theology should not be guiding personal medical decisions for other people.

Redstone said:

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An exact teaching of the Apostolic faith regarding we embodied spirits.

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You claim dualism. I'm telling you it's monism.

Redstone said:

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You claim dualism. I'm telling you it's monism.

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This comment makes no sense whatsoever - good, since my time is limited today and there's no temptation to respond to anything coherent.

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Sigh. This is a philosophy forum. You should look up the difference between mind-body dualism and monism.

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That said, I am back at my computer. What was it exactly that you were asking about? I can tell that you are sincere, so I do want to address whatever questions you may have.

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sorry, it looks like this took off again and im just catching up. It was around the idea that a <10 year old can accurately process through one's gender identity, or even understand what a gender identity is.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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There's really nothing to process. If you're a boy, you're a boy. If you're a girl, you're a girl. 99.9% of people can process this "accurately". Some who had childhood trauma, typically associated with an adult male family member, develop mental disorders where they think they are something they're not.

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What's your medical training and/or sources?

diehard03 said:

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That said, I am back at my computer. What was it exactly that you were asking about? I can tell that you are sincere, so I do want to address whatever questions you may have.

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sorry, it looks like this took off again and im just catching up. It was around the idea that a <10 year old can accurately process through one's gender identity, or even understand what a gender identity is.

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Ah that's right. MQB, in his weak efforts to troll, actually touched upon the answer. The same way that a cisgender boy has a knowledge that he's a boy, or a cisgender girl has that innate knowledge that she's a girl. It's an innate knowledge. Or like a left-handed 8 yr old knows they are left-handed. Do we know why some people are transgender? No. There is zero evidence, bigoted trolls notwithstanding, that childhood trauma makes one trans. I didn't know terms like "transgender" or "gender identity" back then, but I knew I was a girl. I knew I wasn't like the boys. It wasn't that I played with dolls, or some superficial action like that. It's not that I liked pink. Neither of those things were even available to me. I just knew. It wasn't until I grew and acquired the vocabulary that I could put the right words to who I am. Kids today are fortunate that they have the vocabulary available to them. Just as with our close friend's son who is transgender. When you can put words to what's going on inside you, it becomes so much easier. When there is more acceptance and scientific understanding, you feel safer coming out. It's why we're seeing so many more come out today than when we were kids.

While I didn't have the vocabulary in the mid-1980's to articulate who I knew I was, I remember as young as 6 knowing deep down that I wasn't like the boys in my class. I grew up in a world as far from the LGBTQ community as one could be. Which, again, runs counter to the myth of ROGD. I am the Father's fearfully and wonderfully made daughter. He knew who I was from the womb. It just took me a while to embrace it.

Oh, and don't worry about it taking off again. I won't take their bait anymore, so hopefully we can have a discussion if you have further questions.

Sapper Redux said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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There's really nothing to process. If you're a boy, you're a boy. If you're a girl, you're a girl. 99.9% of people can process this "accurately". Some who had childhood trauma, typically associated with an adult male family member, develop mental disorders where they think they are something they're not.

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What's your medical training and/or sources?

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Junior high biology class. It came right after the drug awareness class in which they were taught the deadly effects of marijuana.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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There's really nothing to process. If you're a boy, you're a boy. If you're a girl, you're a girl. 99.9% of people can process this "accurately". Some who had childhood trauma, typically associated with an adult male family member, develop mental disorders where they think they are something they're not.

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What's your medical training and/or sources?

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https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.00060/full
https://www.nature.com/articles/ijir201139
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J485v08n01_03?journalCode=wijt20
https://www.crisismagazine.com/2020/the-traumatic-foundation-of-gender-dysphoria

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Do you always confuse correlation with causation? Or only when convenient?

Had a great zoom last night. They're so excited so start! God bless this kid and their parents.

Redstone said:

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Still utterly disgusted there is no retraction for the advocacy of "treatment" that pumps pre-pubescents with sterilizing hormones.

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Keep holding your breath. What's your treatment for kids with gender dysphoria and what is your clinical evidence that shows it to be superior to the current standard of medical care?

You keep retreating to a religious concept of the individual and haven't even touched on why medicine has moved in the direction it has.