I want interested people to look at ALL our links, I hope especially understanding that a majority of children "resolve" and how harmful it is, including psychologically, to block their puberty.
Joe Boudain said:
I've always maintained that the end goal of the morally relativist left is to degrade children, as they are the closest to Sinlessness, i.e Christ, that you can get as humans.
PacifistAg said:You respect and want to emulate the Taliban. Don't talk to us about degrading people.Joe Boudain said:
I've always maintained that the end goal of the morally relativist left is to degrade children, as they are the closest to Sinlessness, i.e Christ, that you can get as humans.
Much as Satan worshippers will steal the Euchariat to conduct a black mass, so will his agents disfigure, maim, and abuse children.
I've already addressed the problems with your desistance study. And puberty blockers are used for a variety of childhood issues, and they're done so without issue.Redstone said:
I have zero problems answering you directly.A majority resolve by young adulthood. What if little to nothing works best? What if "affirmation" contributes to suicide? I'll return to answer better, but this is better than hormones and puberty blockers.Quote:
what if it works? Isn't the point to find an effective "treatment"?Quote:
If one is found, and know that not all trans people even start hormones, then isn't that what matters here? Why be upset about an effective treatment?
I am upset, very much so, by cultural affirmation of providing children with puberty blockers and possibly hormones, and calling it "treatment." Exact same principle as snuffing out unborn life and calling it "reproductive rights."
Why? Catholic-based views about the human person.
Again, citing studies with flawed methodologies may help charlatans peddle books (Shrier), but it does not necessarily make it a sound study.Redstone said:
I want interested people to look at ALL our links, I hope especially understanding that a majority of children "resolve" and how harmful it is, including psychologically, to block their puberty.
I've only said this about myself. My discussion about suicide and transition as it relates to children has only been based on statistical improvements in mental health and a decrease in suicidal ideation.Quote:
PacifistAg makes a big jump here saying either these kids transition or they will kill themselves -> so its morally good to let them transition as they hold their own life hostage.
That's not what is happening.Quote:
I don't want to see every tomboy girl that plays in the dirt be pulled aside by a school teacher asking if they want to be a boy. I don't want every young boy that plays with dolls having to fend off pressing questions about if they want to be a girl- because the clock is ticking.
Keep moving those goalposts, sweetie.Redstone said:
Facts:
- Majority resolve.
- The "treatment" often advocated to youth is sterilizing. Blockers and hormones, and blockers do have a physical and psychological impact, often to the very negative, as we have many testimonies of.
- As an interested person, I do look at and highlight studies and articles that are "against me." Especially if I want to quote it. No problem at all.
dargscisyhp said:Joe Boudain said:
I've always maintained that the end goal of the morally relativist left is to degrade children, as they are the closest to Sinlessness, i.e Christ, that you can get as humans.
The morally relativist left think about christ a lot less than you believe. Not sure why in the world you think we want to degrade children lmao, it's somewhat bordering on so farfetched as to be funny.
Joe Boudain said:dargscisyhp said:Joe Boudain said:
I've always maintained that the end goal of the morally relativist left is to degrade children, as they are the closest to Sinlessness, i.e Christ, that you can get as humans.
The morally relativist left think about christ a lot less than you believe. Not sure why in the world you think we want to degrade children lmao, it's somewhat bordering on so farfetched as to be funny.
The people playing the tunes have that as their end goal, you're just dancing to the music. Abortion, disfigurement, gay adoption, a couple of points make a line.
PacifistAg said:I've only said this about myself. My discussion about suicide and transition as it relates to children has only been based on statistical improvements in mental health and a decrease in suicidal ideation.Quote:
PacifistAg makes a big jump here saying either these kids transition or they will kill themselves -> so its morally good to let them transition as they hold their own life hostage.
Right, but you still hold the point that its important for young kids to consider transitioning early because of the suicide risk. We're firmly in the land of consequentialism. Where consequences about actions to improve happiness dictate what is good and bad. It is a morality without a compass. Its running up against resistance from those that view this through an absolute lens of morality. Its wrong to endorse transitioning so young because of consent and irreversibility issues, consequences be damned.That's not what is happening.Quote:
I don't want to see every tomboy girl that plays in the dirt be pulled aside by a school teacher asking if they want to be a boy. I don't want every young boy that plays with dolls having to fend off pressing questions about if they want to be a girl- because the clock is ticking.
I agree with you, but you're an extremely informed person on a subject you care deeply about. As this becomes more mainstream and widespread, you're going to see the introduction of pop-psychology. Well meaning people who read a couple articles on Vox are going to pull parents aside and talk to them about the decisions they all face. This is just mainstream-iffication of any mental health trend that breaks through.
PacifistAg said:
Okay, I've had my fill of this. I've shared analysis of the fundamental flaws of these key studies for the anti-trans side. I've shared ample links to present my case. Take it for what you will. The information is out there. You just need to dig into these studies (such as the Littman and Amsterdam studies) and look at the methodology. If you still wish to peddle them, that's on you.
My guess is how you read the presented evidence is going to depend on which side you're coming from on the subject. Of course, the anti-trans side isn't wanting children to die by suicide, but I don't think they understand what kind of hell gender dysphoria is. Helping these kids is good, and should be left up to patient and doctor, not some random stranger on the internet or in a statehouse.
This is a misrepresentation of my position. I think some kids need to transition early, and that's a decision that I will absolutely support, but should be made by the child/guardian and medical professional. Some kids won't feel the need to go on puberty blockers/HRT, just as some trans adults don't need to. Much of that is dependent on the severity of the dysphoria.Quote:
Right, but you still hold the point that its important for young kids to consider transitioning early because of the suicide risk. We're firmly in the land of consequentialism. Where consequences about actions to improve happiness dictate what is good and bad. It is a morality without a compass. Its running up against resistance from those that view this through an absolute lens of morality. Its wrong to endorse transitioning so young because of consent and irreversibility issues, consequences be damned.
This doesn't make sense. Where we're seeing this "pop-psychology" is from people like Littman, or the poster who attempted to make a psychological diagnosis of me immediately after saying "I'm no psychologist". Being transgender isn't a mental health problem. It's not a mental illness. Not all trans people struggle with gender dysphoria. Oftentimes, the only effective treatment for dysphoria is medical intervention. But yes, we need to avoid the pop-psychology produces myths like ROGD.Quote:
I agree with you, but you're an extremely informed person on a subject you care deeply about. As this becomes more mainstream and widespread, you're going to see the introduction of pop-psychology. Well meaning people who read a couple articles on Vox are going to pull parents aside and talk to them about the decisions they all face. This is just mainstream-iffication of any mental health trend that breaks through.
Let's see what I missed…Ag_of_08 said:
Boy it didn't take long for this to go down the track I figured it would....
Redstone said:
Telling the truth is an act of charity.
Joe Boudain said:Redstone said:
Telling the truth is an act of charity.
Imagine a person with an extremely aggressive form of cancer, that while still treatable will require months of intense chemo radiation therapy. The imagine the relief the person would feel if the doctor said. "I think it's just indigestion, you're fine just the way you are" and prescribing them opiates for pain.
We have become weak as a people, and our solution is to warp reality through surgery and/or medicine to make reality go away.
It's an imperfect analogy, but that's a hallmark of analogies and not this one in particular. I know one person who struggles with gender dysphoria, he's the child of one of my 2nd cousins.dermdoc said:Joe Boudain said:Redstone said:
Telling the truth is an act of charity.
Imagine a person with an extremely aggressive form of cancer, that while still treatable will require months of intense chemo radiation therapy. The imagine the relief the person would feel if the doctor said. "I think it's just indigestion, you're fine just the way you are" and prescribing them opiates for pain.
We have become weak as a people, and our solution is to warp reality through surgery and/or medicine to make reality go away.
So you are equating aggressive cancer with being trans?
Seems like a strange analogy. Do you know any trans people?
Fair enough, I was not taught that and see no comparison between aggressive cancer and being trans.Joe Boudain said:It's an imperfect analogy, but that's a hallmark of analogies and not this one in particular. I know one person who struggles with gender dysphoria, he's the child of one of my 2nd cousins.dermdoc said:Joe Boudain said:Redstone said:
Telling the truth is an act of charity.
Imagine a person with an extremely aggressive form of cancer, that while still treatable will require months of intense chemo radiation therapy. The imagine the relief the person would feel if the doctor said. "I think it's just indigestion, you're fine just the way you are" and prescribing them opiates for pain.
We have become weak as a people, and our solution is to warp reality through surgery and/or medicine to make reality go away.
So you are equating aggressive cancer with being trans?
Seems like a strange analogy. Do you know any trans people?
The gist of my point is that as a society we've been taught that "the blues" are "depression" and requires medication, that stress is pathological and requires medication, and that inner turmoil means you're actually the opposite sex and requires massive irreversible surgery and medication.
dermdoc said:Joe Boudain said:Redstone said:
Telling the truth is an act of charity.
Imagine a person with an extremely aggressive form of cancer, that while still treatable will require months of intense chemo radiation therapy. The imagine the relief the person would feel if the doctor said. "I think it's just indigestion, you're fine just the way you are" and prescribing them opiates for pain.
We have become weak as a people, and our solution is to warp reality through surgery and/or medicine to make reality go away.
So you are equating aggressive cancer with being trans?
Seems like a strange analogy. Do you know any trans people?
In Joe's case, what he means would often get him on the no fly list.Ag_of_08 said:
Many are afraid to say what they mean, because it gives their critics the ammo to use against them.
Shrodinger's analogy I guess. It's simultaneously too harsh for dermdoc, while at the same time being too mealymouthed for Ag of 08.Ag_of_08 said:
Many are afraid to say what they mean, because it gives their critics the ammo to use against them.