Exactly, AJ. My thoughts as well. Tyrion had some great lines in this episode and Khal is really growing on me. That dude is a BMF. Also, I really am starting to like Robb. Ever since he punked the imp out. He doesn't take sh.

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Is he a member of the stick people, swearing off the use of steel

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I thought we agreed on no spoilers.

i love watching you non-readers talk about this stuff

I'm in a weird category - halfway through book 3, so I know SOME stuff,but not all the stuff...

You know nothing!

^
settle down Ygritte

While you guys were wasting your time reading a bunch of books, I was banging my wife.

Suckers

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While you guys were wasting your time reading a bunch of books, I was banging my wife.

Suckers

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There is enough time in the day to do both you know, I also sometimes show up for work.

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While you guys were wasting your time reading a bunch of books, I was banging my wife.

Suckers

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weakass troll

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While you guys were wasting your time reading a bunch of books, I was banging my wife.

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Interesting. I banged your wife while reading Book 2, pages 414 - 674.


Dothraki style. She called me her sun & stars.

You read that many pages in 2 minutes? That's hard to imagine.

Back to the show...

So when the Stark kid caught the spy counting their troops... The spy said he had counted up to 20k men.

Do they really have that many soldiers marching with them? Or do you think he let him go with misinformation to give them an advantage.

Yea I think they may have a bit more. Not much though. The Lannisters will Eventually figure out their true size and they're gonna be outnumbered either way.

I think it was mostly a power play to show he isn't scared of the Lannisters and that he was gonna bring hell with him until his father is returned.

No, stark had just said he has 18,000 men so I'm thinking he wants the messenger to go back and report more than they actually have. He made sure to mention to the spy to tell them 20,000 were coming.

Yes...he definitely said they only had 18000 men.

So the spy goes back to Lannister, and tells him that Stark told him they have 20000 marching south. So Lannister thinks, why would he tell my spy they have 20000. Maybe they actually have more.....or perhaps less. I see one of these coming on....

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No, stark had just said he has 18,000 men so I'm thinking he wants the messenger to go back and report more than they actually have. He made sure to mention to the spy to tell them 20,000 were coming.

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Correct. Rob had said previously they only had 18k.

Do we know how many men the Lannister's have? I know they have two separate contingents (Jaime's in Riverrun and Tywin's camp), but I can't remember ever hearing a number.

When Tywin and Jaime talked in Tywin's tent, didn't Tywin say something about giving Jaime 30k, half of their force?

I couldn't remember how many he said, but I do remember their discussion while Twyin was carving the stag.

If their total force is 60k, Rob is effed. I think it is understood he is severely outnumbered anyway, hence the importance of hooking up with the Riverrun Bannermen for reinforcements.

A cornered army knowing they have no choice but to fight or die is a strength even though it appears as a weakness because they are fighting for their lives. The other army has an option of retreat. Definitely not the scenario you'd like but that type of war was all about strategy and where you fought as well. Numbers help but don't guarantee anything.

I'm trying to think of the advantage of having the enemy think you are bringing a little more than you actually have. I could understand if you were battling on two fronts, you have them over load one side where you are fortified and then sweep through the other. Any of you have an idea?

Ya Karrde. Tywin told Jamie that he would give him 30,000 troops, half of their forces.

I dunno but it was awesome when Robb gave his mom the STFU and get back in line stare when she openly questioned his decision to release the scout. He has really stepped up and taken ownership as his role as head of Winterfell in Neds absence despite his reservations. Good stuff. The guy playing him stepped up his game big time the past few episodes. This has been a well acted show with really no weak spots so far.

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I'm trying to think of the advantage of having the enemy think you are bringing a little more than you actually have. I could understand if you were battling on two fronts, you have them over load one side where you are fortified and then sweep through the other. Any of you have an idea?

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Been thinking about this since that scene and here are my thoughts as a guy that hasn't read the books (I'm sure those of you that have read the books are loving these random speculations).

(1) The guy said that they had found the spy before he finished counting. Robb asks the spy what number he got up to, and the spy says 20,000.

(2) Robb knows he's pulling in 18,000, so the spy was obviously high. The interesting part was that he was high and he says he was still counting.

(3) Robb tells the spy, "Yeah, you go tell them that I've only got 20,000".

(4) The spy is released, goes back to Lannister. Tells Lannister, they caught me when I counted up to 20,000. Then they let me go and said to come tell you that they have 20,000 swords.

(5) Lannister has to think that Robb Stark wouldn't have released him if that was the correct number. So the number must be wrong.

(6) Lannister thinks that Robb has to know that he can raise a huge army because they are rich, so he couldn't bluff to try and make Lannister think he had a bigger army. Therefore, he must be trying to trick him into thinking that he's got a small army of 20,000 when they really have over that.

(7) Lannister has only given Jaime half their forces at 30,000. 30,000 might be closer to the actual number that Stark really has. Not exactly the overwhelming force Lannister was counting on, especially considering that his guys fight for money and the Stark army is fighting to save Ned.

(8) Conclusion: Lannister bets that Stark ahole wants him to march into Winterfell with 30k so that he can rout the Lannisters. If they lose half their troops, then the family is weak to all comers.

(9) Result: Jaime draws back for reinforcements, giving the Starks enough time to hook up with the folks at Riverrun or Robert's family os something and increase their number to make it a fairer fight.



[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 6/7/2011 1:11p).]

Tywin also seems to have a bit of a short temper (though maybe I'm misreading his character) and no respect at all for the Starks. By sending the scout back with an insult it might piss Tywin off to the point of doing something stupid and rushing into an ill advised attack.

An enemy who's thinking angry might not be thinking clearly.

If I remember correctly just before the spy was brought Robb was debating 2 different options. One was to head south and take on Jamie and his men. The other was to head west(?) to take a bridge. I think that he told the spy to tell Jamie that he is headed south with 20K men when he is really headed a different direction. Now Jamie and his men will be out of place and vulnerable as they continue to march north looking for an opponent who isn’t there.

I don’t recall 100% what his second option is but that’s what Robb is doing…

Hopefully they are just creating a diversion so a group can spring a surprise attack with the help of the commander of the kings guard to catch the Lanister's off guard with split forces and rescue Ned from the castle.

If not, Ned's a dead man. He already tipped his hand. And the Queen is to smart and won't give a second thought to killing anyone to keep her secret and power.

Didn't he tell him to go to Tywin that? I assumed he was going to go after Jamie and break his seige to get reinforced and then take out Tywin.

That makes sense. They had to take the bridge to help the other guys so they would ally themselves with the Starks.

Jaime is reckless and battle hungry. I could see him charging ahead due to overconfidence and a desire to prove himself to his father and getting himself in a tight spot, especially if Robb can secure the bridge and cut him off from the south.

Who knows though? I'm still getting accustomed to the lay of the land and there is too much going on in the north, south, and east to know exactly what may happen. Sea monsters from the west?!

Sometimes it's fun to read the speculation, and sometimes it's frustrating.

I spent all day yesterday sick at home, but managed to knock out all 8 episodes. This show is money. So is this thread.

I could have sworn Uncle Benjen or whatever was Dylan McDermott:





"CAN'T WAIT for Episode 9"
-Bart Scott

[This message has been edited by Baskin (edited 6/8/2011 2:49p).]

Not sure I'd believe a spy who was just let go.

as others have already stated I think he let the spy go to get either get 1 of the Lanisters armies to give up their men to the other and weaken it or divert attention from their true goal - capture the bridge.

Then tell the spy "were gonna capture that bridge". Cuz the enemy would surely think "well obviously they aren't going to go capture that bridge since they told our spy that and let him go"

If I was the spy I sure as hell wouldn’t tell Jamie that I had been caught. What kind of spy gets caught? A bad one. What do you do with a bad spy? Kill him.

I would go back to Jamie and say that not only do I have a solid count of the soldiers but I was able to gather intel on their strategy without getting caught. That makes him look like a super spy and earns him points with the new Hand of the King…

Dewar he'd that scene last night. They were talking about how the bridge (Jaimes army) was of paramount importance right before they brought in the spy.

He told the spy to go tell Tywin Lannister they were heading south with 20K to see if he really does **** gold.

I think he's creating a diversion so he can face Jaime alone and keep Tywin separated from him so they can't combine forces. Any misinformation about the size of the North army is just icing on the cake. Jaime first. Then Tywin after they have the bridge and another ally to bolster their forces.