Astros/Rangers Discussion - NO MODS ALLOWED

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TarponChaser
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Farmer1906 said:

TarponChaser said:

gigem1223 said:

AustinCountyAg said:

gigem1223 said:

Where did I say they didn't? What the astros have overcome is impressive but they haven't had to deal with as many injuries as the Rangers.
WRONG


No it's not. The rangers lead the AL in war lost to the IL and it's really not that close.

WAR isn't a real stat no matter what some try to claim.

So it's not a piece of data from study of a large quantity of numerical data?

Nope. It's claimed it is but it fails to account for way too much, overvalues some things, and fails to value others. It takes large quantities of data but doesn't correctly apply them.

This is a good piece on it: WAR Sucks

This comparison of Jim Rice to Dwight Evans is a good example- Rice had a higher BA, SLG, OPS, and nearly 100 more RBIs in nearly 600 fewer games (~1500 fewer PA). Runs generate wins and Rice was responsible for an average of 1.3 runs per game (RBIs+R)/GP while Evans was at 1.1. Rice was also a premier defensive OF who could shut down a running game in an era where the running game, hit & run, and speed in general was paramount. Rice averaged over 8.5 OF assists per season for his 16 year career while Evans who was considered to have one of the best OF arms in MLB was at 7.85 per season. Those assists save runs.

On a season-by-season basis Rice is superior in every metric but has a much lower WAR. That's why it's a contrived statistic.

https://stathead.com/tiny/80vCO
Joe Schillaci 48
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AG
LB12Diamond said:

Just want to give props to the Rangers fans at the game last night for the standing ovation for Framber reminded me of Cardinal fans. Solid!
A little late to the board but that standing ovation was from the Astro fans. Ranger fans had left by the 4th inning.
We can't take another four years of this-Tim Walz Caniddate for VP of the United States of America
The Porkchop Express
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TarponChaser said:

Farmer1906 said:

TarponChaser said:

gigem1223 said:

AustinCountyAg said:

gigem1223 said:

Where did I say they didn't? What the astros have overcome is impressive but they haven't had to deal with as many injuries as the Rangers.
WRONG


No it's not. The rangers lead the AL in war lost to the IL and it's really not that close.

WAR isn't a real stat no matter what some try to claim.

So it's not a piece of data from study of a large quantity of numerical data?

Nope. It's claimed it is but it fails to account for way too much, overvalues some things, and fails to value others. It takes large quantities of data but doesn't correctly apply them.

This is a good piece on it: WAR Sucks

This comparison of Jim Rice to Dwight Evans is a good example- Rice had a higher BA, SLG, OPS, and nearly 100 more RBIs in nearly 600 fewer games (~1500 fewer PA). Runs generate wins and Rice was responsible for an average of 1.3 runs per game (RBIs+R)/GP while Evans was at 1.1. Rice was also a premier defensive OF who could shut down a running game in an era where the running game, hit & run, and speed in general was paramount. Rice averaged over 8.5 OF assists per season for his 16 year career while Evans who was considered to have one of the best OF arms in MLB was at 7.85 per season. Those assists save runs.

On a season-by-season basis Rice is superior in every metric but has a much lower WAR. That's why it's a contrived statistic.

https://stathead.com/tiny/80vCO


A million blue stars.
Anything trying to make wins a stat is dumb.
Life is better with a beagle
Ag_07
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I don't about all this WAR discussion.

But I do know...The Rangers SUCK
Silent For Too Long
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ETA: Meant as a reply to TarponChaser

WAR is far from perfect but it's still very informative and generally a pretty good indicator of success on the field.

Trout having some of the best WAR years of all time matched the eye test of him being the best baseball player of his generation.

But you bring up a good point that it certainly has holes. Have you looked into it deep enough to see what it might be over valuing?
Silent For Too Long
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10 games back in the loss column in year 2 of The Arlington Dynasty...
Ag_07
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Don't look now but the Angels are just 2.5 GB of the Rangers for 3rd place.

On the way from WS Champs to cellar dwellers in less than a calendar year.

Impressive stuff
Hornbeck
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They'll stay above the As, pretty normal for the Rangers in the grand scheme of things, looking at the last 10 years.
girlfriend_experience
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Ag_07 said:

Don't look now but the Angels are just 2.5 GB of the Rangers for 3rd place.

On the way from WS Champs to cellar dwellers in less than a calendar year.

Impressive stuff


Lmao they suck but it's pretty normal for them historically
fullback44
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Ag_07 said:

I don't about all this WAR discussion.

But I do know...The Rangers SUCK
I know he's all worried about some WAR number ….

Hey Joe Arlington…you have 4 wins in your last 17 games …. Focus
Farmer1906
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DallasAg 94 said:

fullback44 said:

Neither of these teams will get very far.. pitching not what it takes at this point .. much better teams right now
Do you really believe that?!

It is the tale of two diverging views, IMO.

Starting Pitching:
6. Rangers: 3.81, 96G, 510.1 IP, 455 SO. 10 SPs used so far
10. Astros: 4.24, 96G, 511.2 IP, 483 SO. 10 SPs used so far

Playoff rotation right now:
Rangers: Eovaldi, Scherzer, Lorenzen / depth: Heaney, Gray, Urena
Astros: Blanco, Framber, Brown / depth: Arrighetti, Dubin, Bloss

Possibly coming
Rangers: Mahle, deGrom, Bradford, Dunning
Astros: Garcia, Verlander

Blanco is playoff worthy, this season, but you have to admit, Framber and Brown wouldn't even be in the Top6 available Rangers SP and we're likely to get Mahle back in a couple weeks.

Let's pretend that Blanco and Eovaldi are close enough to call a wash.
Scherzer v Framber?
Lorenzen v Brown?

Your #4 and #5 are both minor league guys. If Verlander gets back, maybe we're mentioning him sliding in your playoff rotation.

ETA Garcia to the Astros hopefuls.
Can I get an update?
JohnnyTexAg1995
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I especially like the part about Framber not even being in the top 6 of rangers SP haha
Farmer1906
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Lorenzen (now pitching for KC) vs Hunter Brown and his 2.40 ERA over his last 15 starts is pretty good too.
cc10106
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"Framber and Brown wouldn't even be in the Top6 available Rangers SP"




Mathguy64
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"Rougie Odor is better that Altuve and will be a HOF 2nd baseman"

"Wait. Let me hold my own beer…"
tjack16
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Farmer1906 said:

DallasAg 94 said:

fullback44 said:

Neither of these teams will get very far.. pitching not what it takes at this point .. much better teams right now
Do you really believe that?!

It is the tale of two diverging views, IMO.

Starting Pitching:
6. Rangers: 3.81, 96G, 510.1 IP, 455 SO. 10 SPs used so far
10. Astros: 4.24, 96G, 511.2 IP, 483 SO. 10 SPs used so far

Playoff rotation right now:
Rangers: Eovaldi, Scherzer, Lorenzen / depth: Heaney, Gray, Urena
Astros: Blanco, Framber, Brown / depth: Arrighetti, Dubin, Bloss

Possibly coming
Rangers: Mahle, deGrom, Bradford, Dunning
Astros: Garcia, Verlander

Blanco is playoff worthy, this season, but you have to admit, Framber and Brown wouldn't even be in the Top6 available Rangers SP and we're likely to get Mahle back in a couple weeks.

Let's pretend that Blanco and Eovaldi are close enough to call a wash.
Scherzer v Framber?
Lorenzen v Brown?

Your #4 and #5 are both minor league guys. If Verlander gets back, maybe we're mentioning him sliding in your playoff rotation.

ETA Garcia to the Astros hopefuls.
Can I get an update?


Doubt you'll get a response on this one from him
Hornbeck
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How bout them Cowboys!
fullback44
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DallasAg 94 said:

fullback44 said:

Neither of these teams will get very far.. pitching not what it takes at this point .. much better teams right now
Do you really believe that?!

It is the tale of two diverging views, IMO.

Starting Pitching:
6. Rangers: 3.81, 96G, 510.1 IP, 455 SO. 10 SPs used so far
10. Astros: 4.24, 96G, 511.2 IP, 483 SO. 10 SPs used so far

Playoff rotation right now:
Rangers: Eovaldi, Scherzer, Lorenzen / depth: Heaney, Gray, Urena
Astros: Blanco, Framber, Brown / depth: Arrighetti, Dubin, Bloss

Possibly coming
Rangers: Mahle, deGrom, Bradford, Dunning
Astros: Garcia, Verlander

Blanco is playoff worthy, this season, but you have to admit, Framber and Brown wouldn't even be in the Top6 available Rangers SP and we're likely to get Mahle back in a couple weeks.

Let's pretend that Blanco and Eovaldi are close enough to call a wash.
Scherzer v Framber?
Lorenzen v Brown?

Your #4 and #5 are both minor league guys. If Verlander gets back, maybe we're mentioning him sliding in your playoff rotation.

ETA Garcia to the Astros hopefuls.


I just fell off the couch laughing …. As others have alluded to.. can you please provide an update on this
Farmer1906
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fullback44 said:

DallasAg 94 said:

fullback44 said:

Neither of these teams will get very far.. pitching not what it takes at this point .. much better teams right now
Do you really believe that?!

It is the tale of two diverging views, IMO.

Starting Pitching:
6. Rangers: 3.81, 96G, 510.1 IP, 455 SO. 10 SPs used so far
10. Astros: 4.24, 96G, 511.2 IP, 483 SO. 10 SPs used so far

Playoff rotation right now:
Rangers: Eovaldi, Scherzer, Lorenzen / depth: Heaney, Gray, Urena
Astros: Blanco, Framber, Brown / depth: Arrighetti, Dubin, Bloss

Possibly coming
Rangers: Mahle, deGrom, Bradford, Dunning
Astros: Garcia, Verlander

Blanco is playoff worthy, this season, but you have to admit, Framber and Brown wouldn't even be in the Top6 available Rangers SP and we're likely to get Mahle back in a couple weeks.

Let's pretend that Blanco and Eovaldi are close enough to call a wash.
Scherzer v Framber?
Lorenzen v Brown?

Your #4 and #5 are both minor league guys. If Verlander gets back, maybe we're mentioning him sliding in your playoff rotation.

ETA Garcia to the Astros hopefuls.


I just fell off the couch laughing …. As others have alluded to.. can you please provide an update on this
Since that post.

Starting Pitching

Astros, Rangers
WAR: 3.4 (2nd), 1.2 (18th)
ERA: 3.26 (5th), 6.07 (30th)
FIP: 3.27 (2nd), 4.61 (19th)
xFIP: 3.02 (2nd), 4.03 (9th)
SIERA: 3.15 (2nd), 4.14 (12th)
WHIP: 1.04 (4th), 1.37 (22nd)
IP: 141.0 (6th), 118.2 (27th)

South Platte
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For a moment after reading this thread title, I thought you were up to your eyeballs in trouble . . .

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3481087/replies/68281111
Farmer1906
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Close call. Appreciate the concern.
Marvin
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fullback44 said:

DallasAg 94 said:

fullback44 said:

Neither of these teams will get very far.. pitching not what it takes at this point .. much better teams right now
Do you really believe that?!

It is the tale of two diverging views, IMO.

Starting Pitching:
6. Rangers: 3.81, 96G, 510.1 IP, 455 SO. 10 SPs used so far
10. Astros: 4.24, 96G, 511.2 IP, 483 SO. 10 SPs used so far

Playoff rotation right now:
Rangers: Eovaldi, Scherzer, Lorenzen / depth: Heaney, Gray, Urena
Astros: Blanco, Framber, Brown / depth: Arrighetti, Dubin, Bloss

Possibly coming
Rangers: Mahle, deGrom, Bradford, Dunning
Astros: Garcia, Verlander

Blanco is playoff worthy, this season, but you have to admit, Framber and Brown wouldn't even be in the Top6 available Rangers SP and we're likely to get Mahle back in a couple weeks.

Let's pretend that Blanco and Eovaldi are close enough to call a wash.
Scherzer v Framber?
Lorenzen v Brown?

Your #4 and #5 are both minor league guys. If Verlander gets back, maybe we're mentioning him sliding in your playoff rotation.

ETA Garcia to the Astros hopefuls.


I just fell off the couch laughing …. As others have alluded to.. can you please provide an update on this


This might be the first knockout I've ever seen during a nerd fight. Dude just got out-well acksuallied. Haha
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
Mathguy64
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10 games back and 10 under .500.

Most teams think of a playoff window. You guys imagined this.

fullback44
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Well I'm still waiting on my response !
Mathguy64
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fullback44 said:

Well I'm still waiting on my response !


You will have to wait. They are busy tailgating for the Cowboys preseason game tomorrow.
Marvin
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Mathguy64 said:

10 games back and 10 under .500.

Most teams think of a playoff window. You guys imagined this.





As the Astros fight for an 8th straight ALCS, we might be witnessing another piece of history. Since the first World Series in 1903, only 18 teams have followed a trophy with a sub .500 season. That includes the Marlins who did it on purpose, and the Nationals who only played 60 games.

Good job, Rangers. You're close to joining a very select group.
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
Mathguy64
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It's the bad umpires. Come on man. They would be 15 over .500 if the umps were better.
Marvin
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fc2112 said:




Bump. Where did you guys go?
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
Marvin
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JWinTX said:

twilly said:

So the Omni Dallas put up a congratulatory message when the Astros won their championship. Classy if you ask me.

Where are the photos of a Houston building congratulating the Rangers?
Houston fans would burn down any establishment within 50 miles of their city limits that congratulated anyone from DFW on anything.


Congrats on sucking this year.
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
jetch17
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All the schlongs like wbt & LeagueCity running their mouths early … nowhere to be found, imagine that.
Panama Red
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Always liked Beltre, all time great player and well deserved HoF member. But does his Ranger career really warrant a statue? Less than half his career there and less than half his hits.
Farmer1906
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HOF? I say yes.
AlwaysNextYear89
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So, "probably wouldn't break the Rangers' playoff rotation" Hunter Brown just finished his 13th start of 6 or more innings allowing 2 runs or less. That Rangers staff must be something special!
tjack16
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AlwaysNextYear89 said:

So, "probably wouldn't break the Rangers' playoff rotation" Hunter Brown just finished his 13th start of 6 or more innings allowing 2 runs or less. That Rangers staff must be something special!


They're the best staff in history. Which is why they are *checks notes* 10 games back and 9 games below .500
Mathguy64
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AlwaysNextYear89 said:

So, "probably wouldn't break the Rangers' playoff rotation" Hunter Brown just finished his 13th start of 6 or more innings allowing 2 runs or less. That Rangers staff must be something special!


Cy Young, Christy Mathewson, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddox and Walter Johnson. Big Train is the designated opener for Young.
 
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