Was there actual smoke behind Rangers and Alonso? Or was that just speculation? Just curious as a baseball guy, not trolling.

The Porkchop Express said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Really odd to attribute Ws to a GM that had been removed 5 years prior.

A drafted player is only controlled by a team for 6 years... 3 Arbs and 3 Serfs...

How long does he get credit?

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I think the real disconnect here is that as a Ranger fan, you have no ****ing idea what sustained winning looks like.

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Well, as someone who started watching baseball in LA during the '70s... I might have a pretty good idea.

You can BUILD teams... and you can ASSEMBLE teams.

This is what sustained looks like?!

Quote:

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2014
Traded 3 scrubs for Jake Marisinick, Colin Moran, and Francis Martes. Jake was integral on the '17 title team, Moran was a key piece to trade for Gerrit Cole

...

2016
Traded Josh Fields for Yordan Alvarez

2017
Traded for Justin Verlander at the deadline

2018
Traded for Ryan Pressly
Traded for Gerritt Cole

2019
Traded for Zack Greinke

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Does Luhnow get credit for trading for JV from the NYM, last year or are we just crediting him with the '17 trade?!

Luhnow was fired as part of the fallout of the sign stealing scandal, why would he get any credit (or blame) for the 2023 trade?

No.

I was asking what take-aways an outsider from the Astros fan base might get that made Luhnow such a great GM.

Not saying he wasn't... not saying he didn't make some good moves. I'm trying to figure out why Astros fans think it would be a good idea to bring him back. Is it just that he was creative and found ways to exploit the rules and win? That's ok. The Rangers signed Gagne to a 1yr deal back in the day knowing that they'd try to trade him at the deadline or give him a QO and get a draft pick. Nothing illegal, but creative.

Lots of GMs will draft a lesser prospect with the guarantee of less money so they can sign someone late and use the Pool money (Brock Porter). That's been done for many years.

I see Luhnow similar to AJ Preller with SDP. Many similar moves and backgrounds. I'm not a fan of Preller, even when he was with the Rangers. We had some success with him, but I have no interest in him being associated with the Rangers... and I have some very specific things that bother me about Preller. Some illegality and some just dirty.

There are things I don't like about Luhnow, starting with his win-at-all-cost mentality.

Pure speculation.

Most moves the Rangers have made with CY+Bochy have been almost completely by surprise. I can't think of one where the Rangers executed something leaked beforehand.

Jon Daniels used the media and allowed the media to use him.

CY doesn't give up much. I don't have any sources.

jkag89 said:

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Luhnow was fired as part of the fallout of the sign stealing scandal, why would he get any credit (or blame) for the 2023 trade?

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Because he was being credited with the 2022 World Series.

DallasAg 94 said:

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CY doesn't give up much.

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I like his style.

DallasAg 94 said:

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jkag89 said:

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Luhnow was fired as part of the fallout of the sign stealing scandal, why would he get any credit (or blame) for the 2023 trade?

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Because he was being credited with the 2022 World Series.

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How many guys on the 2022 team were drafted, signed, extended, or traded for by Luhnow?

Farmer1906 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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jkag89 said:

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Luhnow was fired as part of the fallout of the sign stealing scandal, why would he get any credit (or blame) for the 2023 trade?

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Because he was being credited with the 2022 World Series.

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How many guys on the 2022 team were drafted, signed, extended, or traded for by Luhnow?

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Does it matter?

Do you also credit him with winning the 2023 AL West?

DallasAg 94 said:

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jkag89 said:

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Luhnow was fired as part of the fallout of the sign stealing scandal, why would he get any credit (or blame) for the 2023 trade?

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Because he was being credited with the 2022 World Series.

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As far as I can count on the roster, the only contributing players on the 22 WS title team that were not directly acquired under Luhnow's term are Altuve, Mancini, and Christian Valdez.

He very obviously built >85% of the roster that won the championship in 22.

If you can't figure that out, you're either being intentionally obtuse or you're a 50+ year old idiot who wouldn't know a baseball if it hit you in the head.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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jkag89 said:

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Luhnow was fired as part of the fallout of the sign stealing scandal, why would he get any credit (or blame) for the 2023 trade?

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Because he was being credited with the 2022 World Series.

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How many guys on the 2022 team were drafted, signed, extended, or traded for by Luhnow?

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Does it matter?

Do you also credit him with winning the 2023 AL West?

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How on earth could it not matter? I can't tell if this is a bit or not.

I replied before reading your post. Make though.

Give Jeff some credit for Altuve. He gave him 2 contract extensions. Brown gave him his 3rd and final one.

Farmer1906 said:

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I replied before reading your post. Make though.

Give Jeff some credit for Altuve. He gave him 2 contract extensions. Brown gave him his 3rd and final one.

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I didn't want to overcomplicate things for '94

My mind is blown.

Luhnow was let go in January 2020, right?

I could see someone saying Luhnow contributed to the WS win in November 2022 almost 3 years later. It blows my mind that you credit him with it. I think it explains why Astros fans loath Dusty Baker. Even if he won 3 WS, they'd be credited to Luhnow.

There isn't a single Cowboys fan that gives credit to Jimmy Johnson for winning the Super Bowl in January 1996.

Maybe not but I know many a Cowboy fan, myself included, that believe the Pokes would have won four Super Bowls in a row if Jimmy remained at the helm and that the decline of the dynasty was hastened by his early departure.

Certainly Could have... Would have? Maybe...

We can agree that it is incredibly difficult to win a WS or any Championship.

Credit those that got 2022 WS Rings with contributing to winning it and be done.

Credit Crane for putting together two FOs to win a WS.

Or not.

On the field….theres no question that luhnow was a good GM. The guy prioritized winning above all else. He didn't care about anything else really. He proved that by trading for human filth like Roberto Osuna and hiring misogynistic ******bags like Brandon Taubman.

Luhnow built a monster, but the Astros definitely behaved and acted like the big bad troll under the bridge during his tenure. Every other team in the league hated them and it wasn't because of the Astros stacking up wins. The team was widely regarded as ******y and dirty by the rest of MLB.

Grapesoda2525 said:

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On the field….theres no question that luhnow was a good GM. The guy prioritized winning above all else. He didn't care about anything else really. He proved that by trading for human filth like Roberto Osuna and hiring misogynistic ******bags like Brandon Taubman.

Luhnow built a monster, but the Astros definitely behaved and acted like the big bad troll under the bridge during his tenure. Every other team in the league hated them and it wasn't because of the Astros stacking up wins. The team was widely regarded as ******y and dirty by the rest of MLB.

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Yeah I'm calling bull**** on this part. The rest of the MLB and fans didn't take this stance until after the cheating stuff came out. Since then yes, I'll give you that but up until January of 2020 the Astros weren't a hated team for anything except stacking wins.

bearkatag15 said:

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Grapesoda2525 said:

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On the field….theres no question that luhnow was a good GM. The guy prioritized winning above all else. He didn't care about anything else really. He proved that by trading for human filth like Roberto Osuna and hiring misogynistic ******bags like Brandon Taubman.

Luhnow built a monster, but the Astros definitely behaved and acted like the big bad troll under the bridge during his tenure. Every other team in the league hated them and it wasn't because of the Astros stacking up wins. The team was widely regarded as ******y and dirty by the rest of MLB.

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Yeah I'm calling bull**** on this part. The rest of the MLB and fans didn't take this stance until after the cheating stuff came out. Since then yes, I'll give you that but up until January of 2020 the Astros weren't a hated team for anything except stacking wins.

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Seemed like the Altuve not wanting to take his shirt off to celebrate owning the Yankees scandal raised a lot of suspicion across all MLB. Wasn't that pre-2020?

Grapesoda2525 said:

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bearkatag15 said:

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Grapesoda2525 said:

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On the field….theres no question that luhnow was a good GM. The guy prioritized winning above all else. He didn't care about anything else really. He proved that by trading for human filth like Roberto Osuna and hiring misogynistic ******bags like Brandon Taubman.

Luhnow built a monster, but the Astros definitely behaved and acted like the big bad troll under the bridge during his tenure. Every other team in the league hated them and it wasn't because of the Astros stacking up wins. The team was widely regarded as ******y and dirty by the rest of MLB.

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Yeah I'm calling bull**** on this part. The rest of the MLB and fans didn't take this stance until after the cheating stuff came out. Since then yes, I'll give you that but up until January of 2020 the Astros weren't a hated team for anything except stacking wins.

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Seemed like the Altuve not wanting to take his shirt off to celebrate owning the Yankees scandal raised a lot of suspicion across all MLB. Wasn't that pre-2020?

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That didn't become a thing until after the cheating stuff came out... him not wanting his jersey ripped off wasn't even noticed

Yeah, I don't know... if you choke a woman and fire gunshots in the air I don't care if it happened this year, last year, or 50 years ago. You're a piece of *****

I didn't like when the Astros signed Osuna either.

DWI or similar? Sure, yeah, we all screw up. I can see where Matt Bush may have had a change of heart and turned his life around. If that's the case, I'm happy for him.

But cases like Chapman, Osuna, etc... yeah, I wouldn't give those guys a second chance.

FWIW- I know Houston inquired on Chapman briefly last year and I hated it. He doesn't have many friends in the league. There were a couple teams who lost interest after some players told them they wouldn't play with him.

At the end of the day, it's a billion dollar business and I think most teams will do almost whatever it takes to win.

Same. I'm not saying we need to lock these guys up for life, but I think baseball should be taken away from them.

I'm with you. Actions have consequences. Doesn't matter if you play for the Astros, Rangers, Yankees, whoever. I think players with cases of domestic violence should not be welcome back to baseball.

I understand it can get tough when allegations aren't proven in court. I'm not qualified to offer a solution for that.

My favorite Astro as a kid straight up killed somebody, so it's hard to judge anyone else.

The Porkchop Express said:

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My favorite Astro as a kid straight up killed somebody, so it's hard to judge anyone else.

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Allegedly.

It was an accident. I swear.

I find baseball's stance on DV hard to take.

Osuna and Chapman can beat the crap out of their women and it's ok.

Wander Franco can like (ok, have sex with) girls under 18 out of this country and get banned. And it's looking like banned means forever.

Mathguy64 said:

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I find baseball's stance on DV hard to take.

Osuna and Chapman can beat the crap out of their women and it's ok.

Wander Franco can like (ok, have sex with) girls under 18 out of this country and get banned. And it's looking like banned means forever.

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Franco's in trouble with the law enforcement of another country. MLB wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole unless it was Ohtani.

As for Chapman, this report reads:

Chapman allegedly choked his 22-year-old girlfriend, Cristina Barnea, and fired eight shots in the garage of his Davie, Fla., home. On Jan. 21, prosecutors announced that they had decided not to prosecute the hard-throwing left-hander, citing conflicting accounts and insufficient evidence that would have made a conviction unlikely.

So he got suspended 30 games and lost $1.7 million in salary for something that he wasn't even charged with, much less convicted. You can't take a guy's livelihood for something that he didn't even get charged with.

The reason he didn't get in legal doo doo was she decided not pressing charges was financially beneficial. It happens. And I get it. But MLB plays both sides. A lot.

It's funny how nobody has tried to defend Brandon Taubman yet, when you just know luhnow had guys like that up and down his front office. Remember, luhnow didn't like conventional baseball people. He hired geeks who were really smart, but those people also tend to be socially awkward like Taubman.

What's there to defend? He got canned, rightfully so. Why would anyone defend it?

There are wanton jackasses, racists and just plain crazy people all over the place. When they go outside normal bounds of behavior in the workplace, sometimes they get canned and sometimes employers decide to turn a blinds eye because it's easier.

He got fired for it. You want them to draw, quarter and place his head on a pike outside the front doors?

Grapesoda2525 said:

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It's funny how nobody has tried to defend Brandon Taubman yet, when you just know luhnow had guys like that up and down his front office. Remember, luhnow didn't like conventional baseball people. He hired geeks who were really smart, but those people also tend to be socially awkward like Taubman.

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Wow hiring smart people for a job, what a concept.

Grapesoda2525 said:

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It's funny how nobody has tried to defend Brandon Taubman yet, when you just know luhnow had guys like that up and down his front office. Remember, luhnow didn't like conventional baseball people. He hired geeks who were really smart, but those people also tend to be socially awkward like Taubman.

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Speculation much?

Taubman was a POS and was fired, rightfully so. Care to expand on how you "just know luhnow had guys like that up and down his front office" based off one POS trash employee?