***** Official 2020 TEX vs HOU Trash Talking Thread *****

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hawk1689
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 8:38p, 9/3/20
AG
Farmer1906 said:
tjack16 said:
hawk1689 said:
You guys are pathetic. The Astros got kicked out of the National League and they've only had success since they started cheating. The organization is dirty as hell and their fans are a collection of scum.


Well that's just not nice


Speaking the AL. Let's compare AL only results.

Rangers (entire history)
1 Wild Card
7 Divisions
2 Pennants
0 Championships

Astros
1 Wild Card
3 Divisions*
2 Pennants*
1 Championship*

A 4 year window is superior your entire history.


FIFY
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Mathguy64
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In reply to hawk1689 • 8:42p, 9/3/20
AG
hawk1689 said:
Farmer1906 said:
tjack16 said:
hawk1689 said:
You guys are pathetic. The Astros got kicked out of the National League and they've only had success since they started cheating. The organization is dirty as hell and their fans are a collection of scum.


Well that's just not nice


Speaking the AL. Let's compare AL only results.

Rangers (entire history)
1 Wild Card
7 Divisions
2 Pennants
0 Championships

Astros
1 Wild Card
3 Divisions*
2 Pennants*
1 Championship*

A 4 year window is superior your entire history.


FIFY


Don't make me mark yours for when your players were busy jamming steroid needles in their butts and the butts of their teammates.
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bearkatag15
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 8:42p, 9/3/20
AG
Farmer1906 said:
tjack16 said:
hawk1689 said:
You guys are pathetic. The Astros got kicked out of the National League and they've only had success since they started cheating. The organization is dirty as hell and their fans are a collection of scum.


Well that's just not nice


Speaking the AL. Let's compare AL only results.

Rangers (entire history)
1 Wild Card
7 Divisions
2 Pennants
0 Championships

Astros
1 Wild Card
3 Divisions
2 Pennants
1 Championship

A 4 year window is superior your entire history.
Now add in the Astros NL results:
+3 Wild Card
+6 Divisions
+1 Pennant

Total:
4 Wild Card
9 Divisions
3 Pennants
1 Championship

Also the Rangers have be in existence 1 year longer than the Astros.
Fightin' Texas Aggie and Sam Houston State Bearkat
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hawk1689
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 8:47p, 9/3/20
AG
Do you honestly think Bagwell and Biggio weren't doing the same damn thing? You don't play more games and hit more home runs in your late 30's after major knee surgery without a little help. Ever heard of a guy named Ken Caminiti?
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Mathguy64
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In reply to hawk1689 • 8:55p, 9/3/20
AG
hawk1689 said:
Do you honestly think Bagwell and Biggio weren't doing the same damn thing? You don't play more games and hit more home runs in your late 30's after major knee surgery without a little help. Ever heard of a guy named Ken Caminiti?


Was bagwell using? He's admitted to using Andro and yes I suspect he was doing something to mask the arthritis in his shoulder. There is absolutely no evidence Biggio did anything from anyone but angry Rangers fans who deflect their own teams documented steroid use. You know, people like Pudge and Arod. And if you had ever watched Biggio from 2000 on you would know he dramatically changed his swing to take advantage of the Crawford boxes. He didn't hit those homers from juice, he hit them because the park let him.

Now, let's see you admit your players were juicing. If you do you would be the first Rangers fan ti ever do so. All the rest bury their heads in the sand the minute the topic comes up.
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hawk1689
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 9:19p, 9/3/20
AG
Mathguy64 said:

And if you had ever watched Biggio from 2000 on you would know he dramatically changed his swing to take advantage of the Crawford boxes.
I'll bet you think O.J. didn't do it too. Biggio tore his ACL and MCL on August 1st at age 34. He played 155 games the following season.

Yes, most of the Rangers were on steroids in the 90's. 95% of MLB was on steroids at that time. Aside from Palmeiro, none of those players ever tested positive. If I apply the Astro* fan think, there is no "proof" they took them. I'm not intellectually dishonest though.

If you guys can't tell the difference between pointing a camera at the catcher's signs and then relaying the pitch to the hitter versus a league wide drug issue...I can't fix your baseball acumen.
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Harry Dunne
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In reply to hawk1689 • 9:24p, 9/3/20
hawk1689 said:
Do you honestly think Bagwell and Biggio weren't doing the same damn thing? You don't play more games and hit more home runs in your late 30's after major knee surgery without a little help. Ever heard of a guy named Ken Caminiti?
This is a stupid argument. Of course they were juicing. They were ALL juicing.

It's silly to think that Bagwell put up that 1.200 OPS season in which he hit more homers than Bonds and was not juicing. If he was that much better clean than all of the guys that were roiding, that should be considered the greatest baseball season of all time. Biggio was juicing too. So were Pudge and obviously A-Rod, Canseco and Juan Gonzalez and Palmeiro. Didn't Sammy Sosa start off with the Rangers?

Lee Stevens had five 20 HR seasons in a row and no one even knows who he is, because in that era a first baseman could hit .300 with 21 bombs like he did in '97 and only have a 1.0 WAR. He was probably juicing too.

I even think Brad Ausmus was juicing but was just that ishtty of a hitter.



You can definitely get that jacked without steroids if you have good genetics, lift hard and have a great diet...but it's not easy. If it were, you'd see more guys that look like that. Now that baseball is clean again, someone as ripped as Ausmus is above would really stand out. You don't have to hit a ton of homers to be a juicer. Julio Franco juiced like a champ and hardly hit any, but he looked like a bodybuilder and was still playing at 48.

Franco is 62 and is probably still rocking the TRT clinic and would probably still hit better than Odor.

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Grapesoda2525
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In reply to Harry Dunne • 9:27p, 9/3/20
Harry Dunne said:
hawk1689 said:
Do you honestly think Bagwell and Biggio weren't doing the same damn thing? You don't play more games and hit more home runs in your late 30's after major knee surgery without a little help. Ever heard of a guy named Ken Caminiti?
This is a stupid argument. Of course they were juicing. They were ALL juicing.

It's silly to think that Bagwell put up that 1.200 OPS season in which he hit more homers than Bonds and was not juicing. If he was that much better clean than all of the guys that were roiding, that should be considered the greatest baseball season of all time. Biggio was juicing too. So were Pudge and obviously A-Rod, Canseco and Juan Gonzalez and Palmeiro. Didn't Sammy Sosa start off with the Rangers?

Lee Stevens had five 20 HR seasons in a row and no one even knows who he is, because in that era a first baseman could hit .300 with 21 bombs like he did in '97 and only have a 1.0 WAR. He was probably juicing too.

I even think Brad Ausmus was juicing but was just that ishtty of a hitter.



You can definitely get that jacked without steroids if you have good genetics, lift hard and have a great diet...but it's not easy. If it were, you'd see more guys that look like that. Now that baseball is clean again, someone as ripped as Ausmus is above would really stand out. You don't have to hit a ton of homers to be a juicer. Julio Franco juiced like a champ and hardly hit any, but he looked like a bodybuilder and was still playing at 48.

Franco is 62 and is probably still rocking the TRT clinic and would probably still hit better than Odor.

The last part is true sadly.

Odor is probably the worst 2nd baseman in rangers history.
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hawk1689
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In reply to Harry Dunne • 9:28p, 9/3/20
AG
You just said I have a stupid argument and then agreed completely with my argument.
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Marvin
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In reply to hawk1689 • 9:28p, 9/3/20
AG
hawk1689 said:
Mathguy64 said:

And if you had ever watched Biggio from 2000 on you would know he dramatically changed his swing to take advantage of the Crawford boxes.
I'll bet you think O.J. didn't do it too. Biggio tore his ACL and MCL on August 1st at age 34. He played 155 games the following season.

Yes, most of the Rangers were on steroids in the 90's. 95% of MLB was on steroids at that time. Aside from Palmeiro, none of those players ever tested positive. If I apply the Astro* fan think, there is no "proof" they took them. I'm not intellectually dishonest though.

If you guys can't tell the difference between pointing a camera at the catcher's signs and then relaying the pitch to the hitter versus a league wide drug issue...I can't fix your baseball acumen.


Salty!
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Harry Dunne
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In reply to hawk1689 • 9:29p, 9/3/20
hawk1689 said:
You just said I have a stupid argument and then agreed completely with my argument.
Sorry I was not clear. I do agree. I meant that this is a stupid argument to be having.
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Ag_07
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In reply to hawk1689 • 9:36p, 9/3/20
AG
No one is arguing the Astros were clean during the steroid boom.

The point being made is don't act like the Rangers were choir boys and God's gift to baseball and all the division titles and pennants you listed were completely free of any scandal or shadyness.

No organization is playing it straight up 100% clean. So throw around all the astericks you want. We ain't taking the banner down. Get over it

Oh...While we're talking scum don't forget Matt Bush. You know the guy who out drunkenly running over people was a Texas Ranger.
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dvldog
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In reply to Ag_07 • 9:42p, 9/3/20
AG
Ag_07 said:
Oh...While talking scum don't forget Matt Bush. You know the guy who actually killed people was a Texas Ranger.


Which has everything to do with winning a baseball game...
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Harry Dunne
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In reply to hawk1689 • 9:44p, 9/3/20
hawk1689 said:
Mathguy64 said:

And if you had ever watched Biggio from 2000 on you would know he dramatically changed his swing to take advantage of the Crawford boxes.
I'll bet you think O.J. didn't do it too. Biggio tore his ACL and MCL on August 1st at age 34. He played 155 games the following season.

Yes, most of the Rangers were on steroids in the 90's. 95% of MLB was on steroids at that time. Aside from Palmeiro, none of those players ever tested positive. If I apply the Astro* fan think, there is no "proof" they took them. I'm not intellectually dishonest though.

If you guys can't tell the difference between pointing a camera at the catcher's signs and then relaying the pitch to the hitter versus a league wide drug issue...I can't fix your baseball acumen.
There's not much of a difference at all. It's two different forms of cheating.

The difference is that you think that steroids were league-wide but sign stealing was isolated to the Astros (or maybe Astros, Red Sox & Yankees). It's as naive to think that as it is to think that Biggio had a HOF career in an era filled with roiders but was somehow clean.

I think the Astros were probably more egregious than most, just like Jose Canseco was more egregious than Biggio, but it is, to borrow your words, intellectually dishonest to think that the Astros with all of that talent and with such an enormous advantage wouldn't have blown everyone else away.

It would be dishonest to say that I'm not trying to make myself feel better - I'm an Astros fan and I do want everyone else to have also cheated so that I can enjoy the title, just the roidy 88 A's or 01 DBacks can enjoy theirs...and maybe it wasn't as prevalent as steroids but it is truly dumb to think it was not widespread at all.

I do think the Rangers were innocent though - the W-L record shows that. Maybe y'all can hang some sort of sportsmanship banner up.
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hawk1689
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In reply to Harry Dunne • 9:49p, 9/3/20
AG
It's simple logic. The sign stealing thing couldn't have been wide spread or it wouldn't have worked. If you know someone's stealing your signs...you find a new way to signal.
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Harry Dunne
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In reply to hawk1689 • 9:54p, 9/3/20
Teams have been stealing signs since the beginning of baseball. This was just more advanced (dirty).

Every player that played for the Astros knew. The team had a ton of movement every season. You think Fiers is the only one that talked?

It was cheating, talk trash - I would...but don't play dumb just so you can be right.
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hawk1689
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In reply to Harry Dunne • 10:13p, 9/3/20
AG
Harry Dunne said:
Teams have been stealing signs since the beginning of baseball. This was just more advanced (dirty).

Every player that played for the Astros knew. The team had a ton of movement every season. You think Fiers is the only one that talked?

It was cheating, talk trash - I would...but don't play dumb just so you can be right.
Again. There's a huge difference between a guy on second base waving his arms to signal a pitch versus zooming in cameras every at bat and using technology to break codes and then signal that to a hitter. That's the baseball equivalent of listening in on the playcalls from an opposing offensive coordinator.

I agree, there was smoke around MLB about the dirty Astros* organization way before Fiers. Hamels and Lucroy both declined trades. Trevor Bauer called them out publicly. I would argue that was evidence that other teams weren't cheating.
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Harry Dunne
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In reply to hawk1689 • 10:33p, 9/3/20
I mean if a respectable guy like Trevor Bauer that never pops off like an idiot said it then it must be true.

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Mathguy64
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In reply to hawk1689 • 10:46p, 9/3/20
AG
Just stop it with the cheating Astros nonsense. That team wasn't the only one doing it.

First there is documented evidence of the Yankees and Red Sox. Both teams were caught doing it with the watches. There's documented evidence of Dodgers players in the 2017 WS wearing banned watches under wristbands. Second there is a metric ton of player evidence of what is generally believed to be roughly 10 teams that were more advanced than others in using video and computer technology to break down pitchers. That includes the Dodgers and Rangers. Teams were all trying many things and it was an outgrowth of the analytics movement. They were analyzing video data and breaking pitchers sets and motions down looking for tells. We were very good at it, as we should have been. We had the best analytics group in baseball.

We weren't stealing the signs with Darvish. We broke his tell on the mound and every batter knew exactly what he was throwing in every pitch. The live feed was info was just one more piece. I'm convinced the real story was the video analysis of pitching motions. The trashcan deal just sounds juicy and makes a better story than a bunch of nerds designing a program to analyze motion and video looking for unique differences in positions and motions. And Fiers was too busy hooking up with underage girls to know what went on in the computer room with the nerds.

Listen to Gerrit Cole this week complain about hitters knowing what he's throwing. Baier really complains about it. It's still going on because that's not done in real time. And it's perfectly legal. The cool thing about watching Greinke is he doesn't seem to even care if the hitter knows. Hell, he's openly signalling to the catcher what pitch he's throwing.

Teams cheat in sports. They are all trying to get an edge to win in every team sport and most solo ones. Everyone is cheating in some way. If you are lucky what you find stays with you for a season before it gets around and others copy it. If you don't want to admit that I don't know what to tell you.
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cc10106
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 11:59p, 9/3/20
Rangers fans admitting their teams likely used similar cheating methods and still sucked? Good luck with that. Hell, Red Sox/Yankee/Dodger fans pretend the Astros were the only ones really pushing the envelope which is absurd.
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hawk1689
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In reply to Harry Dunne • 3:57a, 9/4/20
AG
Harry Dunne said:
I mean if a respectable guy like Trevor Bauer that never pops off like an idiot said it then it must be true.

It was true. Your team admitted it.
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hawk1689
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 4:17a, 9/4/20
AG
So let me get this straight:

1) After admitting to cheating in 2017, I'm supposed to believe that the Astros* didn't cheat in 2018 and 2019 because I can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. All of this despite multiple instances of photographic, video, and audio showing suspicious activity, as well as documented player claims.

2) I'm supposed to believe that all other teams were cheating (including the Rangers), despite no proof at all. Keep in mind that while all of these other teams are cheating, they are simultaneously not protecting themselves from getting cheated on.

3) I'm supposed to believe the enhanced performance of the players was in fact due to superior analytics and not in fact the cheating. These same analytics are in place this year and there has been a 100 point drop in team OPS despite largely the same roster.

I'd appreciate confirmation of this because i'd hate to sound ridiculous or something.
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hawk1689
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4:30a, 9/4/20
AG
Do you guys still think Johnny Manziel didn't take $$ for those autographs? Just curious?
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tjack16
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6:53a, 9/4/20
AG
Rangers suck so bad that we have now gotten away from this season and into 2013 Johnny Manziel
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03_Aggie
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8:01a, 9/4/20
So let me get this straight, It won't work if people know...

hawk1689 said:
It's simple logic. The sign stealing thing couldn't have been wide spread or it wouldn't have worked. If you know someone's stealing your signs...you find a new way to signal.


But people knew and it still worked?

hawk1689 said:
I agree, there was smoke around MLB about the dirty Astros* organization way before Fiers. Hamels and Lucroy both declined trades. Trevor Bauer called them out publicly. I would argue that was evidence that other teams weren't cheating.


You sound ridiculous.


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Harry Dunne
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In reply to hawk1689 • 8:47a, 9/4/20
hawk1689 said:
Do you guys still think Johnny Manziel didn't take $$ for those autographs? Just curious?
Of course he took the money! You sound just like average Joe longhorn fan who acts like just because "lesser" programs have overtaken them, their program is clean. Of course the Astros cheated. They are probably still cheating! This is the game that brought us spitballs and steroids. The last clean champion was probably the 1918 Red Sox. Last clean CFB national champ? Probably WW2-era Army.

The biggest fools of all are the ones that act like this is seminary and are crushed when their heroes get caught trying to get an edge. The more money involved, the more cheating there is going to be...and when there are insane amounts of cheating going on, the winners are usually the best cheaters. Listen to Charles Barkely: This is the wrong place to be looking for role models.

If the Rangers are too stupid to trade away assets and rebuild despite half the league giving them a blueprint, then they are definitely too stupid to have a complicated cheating system. If you like ishtty teams that don't cheat, it sounds like a great fit for you.

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South Platte
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8:54a, 9/4/20
I think this qualifies as thread derail. I guess this is what happens when you have a day game.
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Ag_07
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In reply to South Platte • 9:00a, 9/4/20
AG
South Platte said:
I think this qualifies as thread derail. I guess this is what happens when you have a crappy team going absolutely nowhere.


FIFY
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Harry Dunne
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In reply to South Platte • 9:05a, 9/4/20
South Platte said:
I think this qualifies as thread derail. I guess this is what happens when you have a day game.
I consider arguing with Ranger fans a type of community service. It helps them take their mind off their terrible team and also reminds me to be thankful for what we've got.
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South Platte
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In reply to Harry Dunne • 3:22p, 9/4/20
Harry Dunne said:
South Platte said:
I think this qualifies as thread derail. I guess this is what happens when you have a day game.
I consider arguing with Ranger fans a type of community service. It helps them take their mind off their terrible team and also reminds me to be thankful for what we've got.
Thankful? Wow, I didn't know this was that important to you.
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Farmer1906
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10:11p, 9/15/20
AG
You're welcome for helping you tank.
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Grapesoda2525
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 10:14p, 9/15/20
Farmer1906 said:
You're welcome for helping you tank.
Think you guys can win the next 6 against us?

Our draft guy Kip ***g is a big moron. we probably need to be in the top 2 to get a good player. We need the choice to be obvious.

The last time we had a top 5 pick, we took Dillon Tate and he didn't do *****


Oh and don't act like you're just doing us a favor. You guys need the wins right now. Record isn't looking too hot.
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Grapesoda2525 • 10:16p, 9/15/20
AG
One can hope.

Also, it is wrong to tank. You are ruining the integrity of the game. Its shameful. How dare?1
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bearkatag15
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In reply to Grapesoda2525 • 10:17p, 9/15/20
AG
Grapesoda2525 said:
Farmer1906 said:
You're welcome for helping you tank.
Think you guys can win the next 6 against us?

Our draft guy Kip ***g is a big moron. we probably need to be in the top 2 to get a good player. We need the choice to be obvious.

The last time we had a top 5 pick, we took Dillon Tate and he didn't do *****


Oh and don't act like you're just doing us a favor. You guys need the wins right now. Record isn't looking too hot.
Seattle has the hardest schedule in baseball the final 2 weeks while the Astros have the easiest... and Houston already has the lead and tie breaker over Seattle. They'll be fine
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Grapesoda2525
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 10:18p, 9/15/20
Farmer1906 said:
One can hope.

Also, it is wrong to tank. You are ruining the integrity of the game. Its shameful. How dare?1
That argument won't go anywhere with me.

I realize that if teams aren't going to trade their prospects to us that we have to try and develop young talent. The best way to do that is the draft.

Jon Daniels plan of rebuilding while still trying to maintain a respectable team has been a massive failure and we need to change strategies.

I want new owners and a new GM asap
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