Either way, it's good entertainment.
General EPL Discussion/Housery Thread
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Last: 23 hrs ago by Texaggie7nine
I just want the punishment to be harsh enough that we can replace "pulling a Leeds" in the vernacular.
Quote:
We put the EPL on the map and you should be thanking us for our benevolence
It's funny you invent elitism coming from me, with words or sentiments I've never said, when there is plenty coming from the red cartel fans here and all over.
"Historic" has no place in a conversation on who gets to spend how much money.
7nine
Though I have spoken with Man U and Liv fans who quicky have ended the debate with me by being reasonable.
They openly admit the rules are pretty unfair, that they stack the cards all in the few historically successful clubs and that they should probably be changed, but, they say, City broke rules and should be punished. They don't cry and say "oh you stole trophies". I have no argument with them.
If the charges stick and the punishment comes through, so be it.
They openly admit the rules are pretty unfair, that they stack the cards all in the few historically successful clubs and that they should probably be changed, but, they say, City broke rules and should be punished. They don't cry and say "oh you stole trophies". I have no argument with them.
If the charges stick and the punishment comes through, so be it.
7nine
As an outsider looking at this, it's hilarious that people are trying to nuke Man City, one of the most popular teams in the world, into a minor league. This ultimately will reduce growth of the sport. It's also why I laugh when people talk about relegation for US sports. The same teams still live in that bubble over and over. How is that entertaining? It's why the NFL is so much better, with its salary cap and revenue sharing.
A much better system would be this: if you are in the Premier League, you must spend $X and no more than $X, no matter what. Hard stop. No wiggle room.
This whole situation is like the NYT bestseller list. Bestsellers are a mix of "blue blood" authors like Stephen King and Malcolm Gladwell and your flavor-of-the-month self-help celebrity or politician. Teams are locked in a cycle: you can't spend more than you earn, so go earn more. But the easiest way to earn more is by winning, and you can't do that without money. So the second group gets there by going out and buying 500,000 copies of their own book. At the end of the day, the book still got sold. If the club had the money, it had the money. If a team can't afford to play the Premier League game, it should win the Championship and opt to stay down, within the budget restrictions at that level.
And if an owner can't afford it, the Premier League should have solvency rules in place to remove the owner, just like in the US.
At the end of the day I'll watch whatever game is on USA Network and move on. I will also laugh if the owners pull billions out of the UK investments in retaliation.
A much better system would be this: if you are in the Premier League, you must spend $X and no more than $X, no matter what. Hard stop. No wiggle room.
This whole situation is like the NYT bestseller list. Bestsellers are a mix of "blue blood" authors like Stephen King and Malcolm Gladwell and your flavor-of-the-month self-help celebrity or politician. Teams are locked in a cycle: you can't spend more than you earn, so go earn more. But the easiest way to earn more is by winning, and you can't do that without money. So the second group gets there by going out and buying 500,000 copies of their own book. At the end of the day, the book still got sold. If the club had the money, it had the money. If a team can't afford to play the Premier League game, it should win the Championship and opt to stay down, within the budget restrictions at that level.
And if an owner can't afford it, the Premier League should have solvency rules in place to remove the owner, just like in the US.
At the end of the day I'll watch whatever game is on USA Network and move on. I will also laugh if the owners pull billions out of the UK investments in retaliation.
In the NFL, are there any consistently bad teams? Yes. Baseball? Yes. Basketball? Yes.
They don't deserve to be in the league because they've been allowed to mismanage themselves into the first pick of the draft more often than not.
They don't deserve to be in the league because they've been allowed to mismanage themselves into the first pick of the draft more often than not.
This is how I imagine an innocent party with irrefutable evidence proving their innocence would act. https://t.co/qgmB5qLvtc
— Alfie (@AlfiePottsH) October 2, 2026
Bull Meachem said:
In the NFL, are there any consistently bad teams? Yes. Baseball? Yes. Basketball? Yes.
They don't deserve to be in the league because they've been allowed to mismanage themselves into the first pick of the draft more often than not.
In the EPL are the constantly bad teams? Yes the same 5-6 of them but they just take turns being terrible and playing the minor leagues.
Look if you think relegation is a must have fine. Using some pretend numbers, teams in Championship League must spend a minimum of $25 million and a max of $50 million each season to qualify for revenue share. If you advance into EPL you must maintain a minimum of $50 million and no more than $200million regardless of team value. If you cannot maintain that you don't move up.
The idea that you throttle how much money you can pour into a club to turn it around is wild. Look at the Dodgers. Turned into a joke in the early 2000s. New owner comes in and is aggressive in spending and creative in financing player deals and turns them into a juggernaut and massively increases their appeal. That's good for baseball.
For all the complaints about tanking teams US sports leagues like the NFL have massive parity in championships and playoff berths compared other setups.
Lol at using the Dodgers as an example of what is good about MLB. They are going to have an extended work stoppage to fix their problems in MLB. Are we all getting trolled on this thread?
Good lord. The dodgers are aggressively spending? WOW.
The dodgers are literally cheating. Their owner got caught falsifying be media revenue because he was inflating it artificially with money from an insurance company.
Media revenue that MLB lets them keep that no other club gets to keep because they were about to be bankrupt.
So they used their bankruptcy to ultimately cheat and spend money they didn't actually have or earn.
By all means use them to prop up City.
The dodgers are literally cheating. Their owner got caught falsifying be media revenue because he was inflating it artificially with money from an insurance company.
Media revenue that MLB lets them keep that no other club gets to keep because they were about to be bankrupt.
So they used their bankruptcy to ultimately cheat and spend money they didn't actually have or earn.
By all means use them to prop up City.
CrockerAg98 said:
I just want the punishment to be harsh enough that we can replace "pulling a Leeds" in the vernacular.
I assure you that City fans don't understand what that means. They don't even acknowledge their own owners pre-Mansour. They certainly aren't going to know anything about Leeds. Such is the way of things when you think the EPL started around 2010.
PJYoung said:This is how I imagine an innocent party with irrefutable evidence proving their innocence would act. https://t.co/qgmB5qLvtc
— Alfie (@AlfiePottsH) October 2, 2026
This is about to turn from soccer into blackmailball.
The irony here is overwhelming.
City fans buy into the insane conspiracy that the whole reason why FFP exists is because the evil "red cartel" manipulated and forced the EPL into it so that the "red cartel" could maintain their status.
And now? City is actually attempting to manipulate and force the EPL into reversing their decision so that they can maintain their status and City fans will declare themselves heroic martyrs fighting for sporting justice.
Embarrassment of a club. Embarrassment of a fan base.
City fans buy into the insane conspiracy that the whole reason why FFP exists is because the evil "red cartel" manipulated and forced the EPL into it so that the "red cartel" could maintain their status.
And now? City is actually attempting to manipulate and force the EPL into reversing their decision so that they can maintain their status and City fans will declare themselves heroic martyrs fighting for sporting justice.
Embarrassment of a club. Embarrassment of a fan base.
The "red cartel" stuff has to be a Saudi psyop right?
Yeah where would the red cartel idea even come from???
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/jan/14/premier-league-split-financial-fair-play
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/jan/14/premier-league-split-financial-fair-play
7nine
Damn. The Crown Prince over here got my ass.
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AG
Oasis should tell the post- Abu Dhabi crowd to piss off and delete their albums.Dre_00 said:
The irony here is overwhelming.
City fans buy into the insane conspiracy that the whole reason why FFP exists is because the evil "red cartel" manipulated and forced the EPL into it so that the "red cartel" could maintain their status.
And now? City is actually attempting to manipulate and force the EPL into reversing their decision so that they can maintain their status and City fans will declare themselves heroic martyrs fighting for sporting justice.
Embarrassment of a club. Embarrassment of a fan base.
This is exactly right
Finish this Premier League season, but impose a points deduction sufficient to guarantee relegation and, subject to acceptance, allow the EFL to place them wherever they see fit.
Then:
- No parachute payments.
- 30 point deduction the following season.
- 20 points the season after that.
- 10 points the season after that.
- Three years of severe transfer spending restrictions.
- Strip the domestic honours directly affected, including those after the initial investigatory period, and leave them vacant. No retrospective champions.
- Pay compensation where rival clubs can demonstrate genuine financial loss.
And finally, any owners, directors or senior executives implicated in the wrongdoing (potentially: Sheikh Mansour, Khaldoon Al Mubarak, Ferran Soriano, Danny Wilson, Claire Catlin, Txiki Begiristain etc.) should face the regulator's suitability process and, where they fail it, be banned from English football.
I don't want Manchester City Football Club destroyed forever. City supporters, Liam Gallagher included, didn't devise financial schemes or sit around boardroom tables constructing sham arrangements.
I want the competitive advantage gained through years of rule breaking destroyed, and those responsible held accountable.
One enormous points deduction followed by promotion and business as usual wouldn't cut it.
The consequences should follow City for years.
Because if nine seasons of serious financial wrongdoing can ultimately be overcome with one bad season and a large cheque, what deterrent is there?
Make the punishment hurt. Make it last. Make sure nobody ever considers doing it again.
‼️ City Are Guilty. Now Make the Punishment Fit the Crime
— Eddie Gibbs (@eddiegibbs) October 4, 2026
I’ve written a lot about the Manchester City case over the years and people have often asked me the same question:
What punishment would you impose if the findings survive appeal?
Well, here it is.
Finish this Premier… pic.twitter.com/tqb4iLzkaT
Finish this Premier League season, but impose a points deduction sufficient to guarantee relegation and, subject to acceptance, allow the EFL to place them wherever they see fit.
Then:
- No parachute payments.
- 30 point deduction the following season.
- 20 points the season after that.
- 10 points the season after that.
- Three years of severe transfer spending restrictions.
- Strip the domestic honours directly affected, including those after the initial investigatory period, and leave them vacant. No retrospective champions.
- Pay compensation where rival clubs can demonstrate genuine financial loss.
And finally, any owners, directors or senior executives implicated in the wrongdoing (potentially: Sheikh Mansour, Khaldoon Al Mubarak, Ferran Soriano, Danny Wilson, Claire Catlin, Txiki Begiristain etc.) should face the regulator's suitability process and, where they fail it, be banned from English football.
I don't want Manchester City Football Club destroyed forever. City supporters, Liam Gallagher included, didn't devise financial schemes or sit around boardroom tables constructing sham arrangements.
I want the competitive advantage gained through years of rule breaking destroyed, and those responsible held accountable.
One enormous points deduction followed by promotion and business as usual wouldn't cut it.
The consequences should follow City for years.
Because if nine seasons of serious financial wrongdoing can ultimately be overcome with one bad season and a large cheque, what deterrent is there?
Make the punishment hurt. Make it last. Make sure nobody ever considers doing it again.
In 2023, Gary Neville admitted that the “Establishment Elite” ie, Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool pushed through the FFP rules because they don’t like the idea of clubs like Blackburn, Chelsea and Manchester City pumping money into football and challenging them.
— Lea (@Lea_EFC) October 4, 2026
Gary… https://t.co/xJTdXTEfKw
Of course he's mum on this today.
Neville didn't "admit" to anything because he's offering an opinion and had no part in the decision. I'm not even sure if that video is real, but I do know he's been quite vocal for years about his dislike of FFP. Not surprising since Salford have been stuck in League 2 for 8 years now that he can't Abu Dhabi his way up the EFL (where they have their own version of FFP) like he did in non-league football (no FFP).
I think he's adopted the opinion that FFP is wrong, but that doesn't mean you can break the rules. Which is a sane position to take. Unlike the "it's OK to break a rule that I think is dumb' mantra. But the most important thing here is I personally don't give a crap about his (or most of the other former United players turned pundits) opinion on this or thing else. See, you don't actually have to blindly follow your owners, current players or former players just because they are attached to the club you happen to support.
I think he's adopted the opinion that FFP is wrong, but that doesn't mean you can break the rules. Which is a sane position to take. Unlike the "it's OK to break a rule that I think is dumb' mantra. But the most important thing here is I personally don't give a crap about his (or most of the other former United players turned pundits) opinion on this or thing else. See, you don't actually have to blindly follow your owners, current players or former players just because they are attached to the club you happen to support.
This is just a silly response by Man City and their fans. They signed up to be part of the league and accepted the rules as they were written. They didn't manipulate the wording of the rules to find a loophole; they blatantly broke them with no regard. Their revenue went up by 1200% in five years? They paid how much for Halland? C'mon, don't give me the after-the-fact complaint that the rules favor the big clubs because you really don't care.
Take your medicine and move on.
Take your medicine and move on.
That's not the convo being had. The convo being had is "city are the worst cheaters ever, everything all their best players have done is invalid because of how horrible the cheating was". All with fully knowing that a Man U could have legally spent the same $, got the same players, won the same trophies and all would be "legal", but City doing it makes it all horribly immoral.
If the conversation were "yeah FFP rules are unfair because they protect the historical winning clubs, but even though city voted against those rules, the Abu Dhabi group bought the club BEFORE the FFP type rules existed, the FFP type rules were very likely pushed BECAUSE City owners were so cash rich, the unfair rules passed and they broke them, so they should get some punishment"
Then there wouldn't be much arguing here other than "they still have their appeal and we should wait to see what if its overturned."
If the conversation were "yeah FFP rules are unfair because they protect the historical winning clubs, but even though city voted against those rules, the Abu Dhabi group bought the club BEFORE the FFP type rules existed, the FFP type rules were very likely pushed BECAUSE City owners were so cash rich, the unfair rules passed and they broke them, so they should get some punishment"
Then there wouldn't be much arguing here other than "they still have their appeal and we should wait to see what if its overturned."
Texaggie7nine said:
That's not the convo being had. The convo being had is "city are the worst cheaters ever, everything all their best players have done is invalid because of how horrible the cheating was". All with fully knowing that a Man U could have legally spent the same $, got the same players, won the same trophies and all would be "legal", but City doing it makes it all horribly immoral.
If the conversation were "yeah FFP rules are unfair because they protect the historical winning clubs, but even though city voted against those rules, the Abu Dhabi group bought the club BEFORE the FFP type rules existed, the FFP type rules were very likely pushed BECAUSE City owners were so cash rich, the unfair rules passed and they broke them, so they should get some punishment"
Then there wouldn't be much arguing here other than "they still have their appeal and we should wait to see what if its overturned."
Well, they are the worst cheaters ever, according to the rules that they signed up for. But as always, the cover-up is always worse than the crime. It's not the spending, it the blatant disregard for the system in place that they agreed to follow and then fighting tooth and nail to cover it up.
And if everything was on the up and up, why hide it? As I tell my kids, when you hide it, you know that you aren't supposed to be doing it. When you lie about it and hide it, you really know that you shouldn't be doing it.
If they get off with a slap on the wrist, it will open the floodgates and damage the EPL's reputation. There would be no reason for any team to follow the rules anymore and we'll see a similar absurdity to what has happened to college sports.
Oh no if city aren't punished severely, other teams might start spending more of their own money and making the league fill up with more talent and making the playing field even more competitive across the top meaning the historical winning clubs will have an even harder time getting back to the top. How terrible.
7nine
Texaggie7nine said:
Oh no if city aren't punished severely, other teams might start spending more of their own money and making the league fill up with more talent and making the playing field even more competitive across the top meaning the historical winning clubs will have an even harder time getting back to the top. How terrible.
That's what you got from what I wrote? Or did you just decide to ignore everything else that was written?
FFP is unfair to smaller clubs but if you want those rules changed, get the votes. It takes fourteen clubs to make a change and FFP was adopted by more than just the Red Cartel. If you don't like the system, then choose not to be in it. But if you are in the system, you choose to follow those rules.
I don't really get what is so hard about that.
Manchester City's actions have, I think, developed exactly 0 sympathy for the plight of "small clubs" and have not in anyway advanced the argument for financial parity.
That's just not a cause for a corrupt nation state willing to lie and cover up actions to take on. And no one, umm, buys that they were just trying to improve the game and champion the small guys.
That's just not a cause for a corrupt nation state willing to lie and cover up actions to take on. And no one, umm, buys that they were just trying to improve the game and champion the small guys.
TXAggie2011 said:
Manchester City's actions have, I think, developed exactly 0 sympathy for the plight of "small clubs" and have not in anyway advanced the argument for financial parity.
That's just not a cause for a corrupt nation state willing to lie and cover up actions to take on. And no one, umm, buys that they were just trying to improve the game and champion the small guys.
No one is saying that Abu Dhabi is fighting for the small guys.
They came into the league seeing what Blackburn had done in the past, what Chelsea was in the middle of doing. They came in with a plan to invest just as other big money owners have done in the past and take a struggling club with some history and turning them into a big elite club like the Red teams. They start that process which there were no rules against at the time, then suddenly the league elites push in spending rules and convince enough other clubs that it's in their best interests so that they can keep City and any other big investors from coming in and challenging their dominance.
It's anti competitive.
7nine
This thread is greatness. I love that the LA Dodgers were worked in as an example in support of Man City as being good for the sport.
I love this thread.
I love this thread.
Texaggie7nine said:TXAggie2011 said:
Manchester City's actions have, I think, developed exactly 0 sympathy for the plight of "small clubs" and have not in anyway advanced the argument for financial parity.
That's just not a cause for a corrupt nation state willing to lie and cover up actions to take on. And no one, umm, buys that they were just trying to improve the game and champion the small guys.
No one is saying that Abu Dhabi is fighting for the small guys.
They came into the league seeing what Blackburn had done in the past, what Chelsea was in the middle of doing. They came in with a plan to invest just as other big money owners have done in the past and take a struggling club with some history and turning them into a big elite club like the Red teams. They start that process which there were no rules against at the time, then suddenly the league elites push in spending rules and convince enough other clubs that it's in their best interests so that they can keep City and any other big investors from coming in and challenging their dominance.
It's anti competitive.
Wasn't Man City also accused of violating UEFA rules as well?
Quote:
Yes, Manchester City was previously accused and found guilty by UEFA of violating its Financial Fair Play (FFP) regulations.
In February 2020, UEFA's Club Financial Control Body concluded that the club had committed "serious breaches" by overstating its sponsorship revenue in its accounts between 2012 and 2016 and failing to cooperate with the investigation.
UEFA initially issued a two-year ban from European club competitions (like the Champions League) and a 30 million fine.
The Appeal to CAS
However, Manchester City immediately appealed the decision to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).
In July 2020, CAS overturned the European ban and reduced the fine to 10 million (purely for non-cooperation). CAS ruled that:
Most of the alleged breaches were "time-barred" because they fell outside of UEFA's strict 5-year statute of limitations.
The remaining charges were "not established" based on the evidence UEFA had at the time.
eiggA2002 said:
This thread is greatness. I love that the LA Dodgers were worked in as an example in support of Man City as being good for the sport.
I love this thread.
It's truly incredible. Fraud and cheating is not only ok, it's to be lauded and thanked dangit!
I was hoping there was no Ag tags associated with this, but alas....
I'm not sure what's more hilarious. Continuing to refer to a 2/3 majority of the league as "the elites" or using Blackburn Rovers as an example of how high spending owners who run their clubs at annual losses year after year is a good thing.
Texaggie7nine said:TXAggie2011 said:
Manchester City's actions have, I think, developed exactly 0 sympathy for the plight of "small clubs" and have not in anyway advanced the argument for financial parity.
That's just not a cause for a corrupt nation state willing to lie and cover up actions to take on. And no one, umm, buys that they were just trying to improve the game and champion the small guys.
No one is saying that Abu Dhabi is fighting for the small guys.
They came into the league seeing what Blackburn had done in the past, what Chelsea was in the middle of doing. They came in with a plan to invest just as other big money owners have done in the past and take a struggling club with some history and turning them into a big elite club like the Red teams. They start that process which there were no rules against at the time, then suddenly the league elites push in spending rules and convince enough other clubs that it's in their best interests so that they can keep City and any other big investors from coming in and challenging their dominance.
It's anti competitive.
Then city owners need to push for changes to the rules not just say we do not like the rules so we can ignore them.
City net transfer spend was the same as all 3 members of your "Red Cartel" combined between 2008 and 2018. City's Net spend look better now because they over pay for academy players
Liverpool: -250.61m
Arsenal: -216.26
Man Utd: -659.14m
Man City: -1.192b
Red Cartel total: -1.126b
Man City: -1.192b
City's Net spend look better now because they have also over paid for academy players for years and have been able to benefit from the Homegrown rules. If City had been willing to be patient, this is one area an owner can overspend to help finance future transfer spending since academy salaries and scholarships do not impact PSR.
PJYoung said:Quote:
Yes, Manchester City was previously accused and found guilty by UEFA of violating its Financial Fair Play (FFP) regulations.
In February 2020, UEFA's Club Financial Control Body concluded that the club had committed "serious breaches" by overstating its sponsorship revenue in its accounts between 2012 and 2016 and failing to cooperate with the investigation.
UEFA initially issued a two-year ban from European club competitions (like the Champions League) and a 30 million fine.
The Appeal to CAS
However, Manchester City immediately appealed the decision to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).
In July 2020, CAS overturned the European ban and reduced the fine to 10 million (purely for non-cooperation). CAS ruled that:
Most of the alleged breaches were "time-barred" because they fell outside of UEFA's strict 5-year statute of limitations.
The remaining charges were "not established" based on the evidence UEFA had at the time.
EPL rules also require compliance with UEFA rules in years that a club is in UEFA competitions. This is why the findings mention UEFA rules violations as well.
Bull Meachem said:
Wasn't Man City also accused of violating UEFA rules as well?
The G14 which previously pushed for FFP type regulations in the UEFA before they disbanded to a larger organization got their wish when UEFA implemented the FFP type rules in 2009 which cemented the top teams.
The G14 were
Real Madrid
Barcelona
Manchester United
Liverpool
Internazionale
Juventus
AC Milan
Marseille
Paris Saint-Germain
Bayern Munich
Borussia Dortmund
Ajax
PSV Eindhoven
Porto
Arsenal
Bayer Leverkusen
Lyon
Valencia
Let's look at UCL winners by year
| 1996 | Juventus |
| 1997 | Borussia Dortmund |
| 1998 | Real Madrid |
| 1999 | Manchester United |
| 2000 | Real Madrid |
| 2001 | Bayern Munich |
| 2002 | Real Madrid |
| 2003 | AC Milan |
| 2004 | Porto |
| 2005 | Liverpool |
| 2006 | Barcelona |
| 2007 | AC Milan |
| 2008 | Manchester United |
| 2009 | Barcelona |
| 2010 | Inter Milan |
| 2011 | Barcelona |
| 2012 | Chelsea |
| 2013 | Bayern Munich |
| 2014 | Real Madrid |
| 2015 | Barcelona |
| 2016 | Real Madrid |
| 2017 | Real Madrid |
| 2018 | Real Madrid |
| 2019 | Liverpool |
| 2020 | Bayern Munich |
| 2021 | Chelsea |
| 2022 | Real Madrid |
| 2023 | Manchester City |
| 2024 | Real Madrid |
| 2025 | Paris Saint-Germain |
| 2026 | Paris Saint-Germain |
I wonder why they wanted FFP in UEFA...
7nine
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