Man Dhabi cheated as we all have known. Pep's entire career has been marred by cheating. Every Man Dhabi fan knows it. You just don't care.
General EPL Discussion/Housery Thread
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Last: 10 hrs ago by Texaggie7nine
7nine
The word you are looking for is envy. But good at least you stopped the denials.
Also, I'm not going to speak to Peps involvement in his playing and Barca days. Those charges involved ACTUAL cheating rules on the field that applied to everyone. Not, elitist rules that are applied that advantage bigger clubs and forbid new owners of smaller clubs from ever really competing against them.
7nine
Only thing worse than breaking the rules is the statement that City just put out in response to the EPL formally announcing the verdict.
Dre_00 said:
Only thing worse than breaking the rules is the statement that City just put out in response to the EPL formally announcing the verdict.
If they had "irrefutable evidence" they really should have brought that during the trial/hearing. But I'm no barrister.
I think a key point here is that people like this aren't used to ever being told no. They are going to continue to stamp their feet and refuse to admit they are being held accountable.
To be honest, I kind of wonder if The CEO of City is basically like the Iraqi Information Minister. Perhaps that is just a cultural thing in the Middle East. Deny anything is bad no matter what.
Maybe they just know they have so much $ that they can tie up this thing even in high court for years.
I mean, there is no doubt, the rules they are accused of violating are elitist and unfair overall, but I don't think you can leverage the legal system to get them overturned.
Maybe they just know they have so much $ that they can tie up this thing even in high court for years.
I mean, there is no doubt, the rules they are accused of violating are elitist and unfair overall, but I don't think you can leverage the legal system to get them overturned.
7nine
This is the problem with a sovereign as owner of a team. They arent used to being told they have to follow rules. 100 years ago if you told the King/Queen/Emir they could not do things and they had to follow rules or else, they would just cut your head off and keep doing what they wanted to do.
I mean, IF they did fraudulently create sponsorship revenue and other sources of revenue to conceal their own money, then I'm happy they did.
The past 14 years would have been a depressing sludge, watching the usual red suspects win everything, not much different than we see how Villa and Newcastle are getting along being forced to not be able to invest in their team like they want.
The past 14 years would have been a depressing sludge, watching the usual red suspects win everything, not much different than we see how Villa and Newcastle are getting along being forced to not be able to invest in their team like they want.
7nine
ChipFTAC01 said:Dre_00 said:
Only thing worse than breaking the rules is the statement that City just put out in response to the EPL formally announcing the verdict.
If they had "irrefutable evidence" they really should have brought that during the trial/hearing. But I'm no barrister.
I think a key point here is that people like this aren't used to ever being told no. They are going to continue to stamp their feet and refuse to admit they are being held accountable.
It's the Lance Armstrong defense. Just deny and gaslight all the way to your grave. And why not, what do they care? I guarantee some City fans will believe the owners because they already buy into the notion that there is a conspiracy against them. The owners lose nothing by just continuing to blatantly lie and misrepresent. In fact, they probably gain a measure of support from their own fans for doing so.
A large portion of the charges are not directly related to the financial improprieties but rather that they weren't forthright/lied about them when asked about the improprieties. No reason why they'd stop lying now.
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Dre_00 said:ChipFTAC01 said:Dre_00 said:
Only thing worse than breaking the rules is the statement that City just put out in response to the EPL formally announcing the verdict.
If they had "irrefutable evidence" they really should have brought that during the trial/hearing. But I'm no barrister.
I think a key point here is that people like this aren't used to ever being told no. They are going to continue to stamp their feet and refuse to admit they are being held accountable.
It's the Lance Armstrong defense. Just deny and gaslight all the way to your grave. And why not, what do they care? I guarantee some City fans will believe the owners because they already buy into the notion that there is a conspiracy against them. The owners lose nothing by just continuing to blatantly lie and misrepresent. In fact, they probably gain a measure of support from their own fans for doing so.
A large portion of the charges are not directly related to the financial improprieties but rather that they weren't forthright/lied about them when asked about the improprieties. No reason why they'd stop lying now.
This is why I'm on board with something draconian. You have to rip the thing out root and stem.
We got hosed for 6 points for 1 violation and were generally cooperative.
If that's the standard, then Man City needs to be dropped from the EPL and barred from return until new ownership is in place.
Don't hate, Blue together strong!
The Blue cartel must join forces and rise to slay the Red cartel's hold of the system.
The Blue cartel must join forces and rise to slay the Red cartel's hold of the system.
7nine
My guess is that the appeals process will take ages but if it doesn't lead to an overturn, I would guess that the EPL would drop the hammer on them. The tone of that statement, and the degree to which City breached the rules, suggests they will.
I would not be surprised if the owners were forced to divest and the club was thrown out of the EPL altogether. The EFL has supposedly supported the idea of barring them from their leagues meaning that City would be playing non-league football.
I would not be surprised if the owners were forced to divest and the club was thrown out of the EPL altogether. The EFL has supposedly supported the idea of barring them from their leagues meaning that City would be playing non-league football.
Dre_00 said:
My guess is that the appeals process will take ages but if it doesn't lead to an overturn, I would guess that the EPL would drop the hammer on them. The tone of that statement, and the degree to which City breached the rules, suggests they will.
I would not be surprised if the owners were forced to divest and the club was thrown out of the EPL altogether. The EFL has supposedly supported the idea of barring them from their leagues meaning that City would be playing non-league football.
as a Real Madrid fan, I have to say Perez is probably licking his chops at this idea. Super League 2.0 here we come.
Yeah I agree and it's what I said previously.
The big problem here isn't really the financial games. Those obviously aren't great, but to me the refusal to cooperate with the investigation is the much bigger problem.
I think at a minimum, this has to result in a failure of the FA owner's and director's test and everyone associated with ownership and management should be barred from clubs in England for life.
And then yeah - for the Draconian stuff - you gotta make that asset damn near worthless so when these clowns are forced to sell, they can't make a dime.
The big problem here isn't really the financial games. Those obviously aren't great, but to me the refusal to cooperate with the investigation is the much bigger problem.
I think at a minimum, this has to result in a failure of the FA owner's and director's test and everyone associated with ownership and management should be barred from clubs in England for life.
And then yeah - for the Draconian stuff - you gotta make that asset damn near worthless so when these clowns are forced to sell, they can't make a dime.
remember, the cover up is what gets most in the end.
Mathguy64 said:
This is the problem with a sovereign as owner of a team. They arent used to being told they have to follow rules. 100 years ago if you told the King/Queen/Emir they could not do things and they had to follow rules or else, they would just cut your head off and keep doing what they wanted to do.
Pretty sure that still happens in the Middle East.
Premier League Statement: Manchester City FC
Statement from the PL about the findings from the independent commission. No new news. Just a broad overview of the situation as we sit. Says they are committed to quickly moving to the consequences phase. If its anything like the inquest it will take years.
City planning to go scorched earth on this appeals process (which they have until Friday to file) is going to make their situation worse I am afraid. Also, the damage claims by the other clubs haven't even begun yet. Billions more to be litigated there. I am sure the barristers in Manchester and London are picking out their new ski chalets and beach houses as I type.
Also - been a Gooner for 33 years. I had never heard the term "red cartel" prior to this week.
Statement from the PL about the findings from the independent commission. No new news. Just a broad overview of the situation as we sit. Says they are committed to quickly moving to the consequences phase. If its anything like the inquest it will take years.
City planning to go scorched earth on this appeals process (which they have until Friday to file) is going to make their situation worse I am afraid. Also, the damage claims by the other clubs haven't even begun yet. Billions more to be litigated there. I am sure the barristers in Manchester and London are picking out their new ski chalets and beach houses as I type.
Also - been a Gooner for 33 years. I had never heard the term "red cartel" prior to this week.
This man is trying to sell seats on the Titanic after it already hit the iceberg. lol.
Furlock Bones said:Dre_00 said:
My guess is that the appeals process will take ages but if it doesn't lead to an overturn, I would guess that the EPL would drop the hammer on them. The tone of that statement, and the degree to which City breached the rules, suggests they will.
I would not be surprised if the owners were forced to divest and the club was thrown out of the EPL altogether. The EFL has supposedly supported the idea of barring them from their leagues meaning that City would be playing non-league football.
as a Real Madrid fan, I have to say Perez is probably licking his chops at this idea. Super League 2.0 here we come.
On the bright side, Haaland to Madrid expedited due to City's tsk, tsk.
Vamooosss!
Gotta love City. They are going with the "didntdonuffin" defense.
Bold strategy Cotton. Let's see how it plays out.
Bold strategy Cotton. Let's see how it plays out.
Mathguy64 said:
Gotta love City. They are going with the "didntdonuffin" defense.
Bold strategy Cotton. Let's see how it plays out.
It's like city management are in a different universe from the league. Even if you buy the "Red Cartel" argument that the rules were unfair so who cares, these were the rules and the rest of the league followed them or were punished.
Sadly a lot of people will be hurt both in the club and community by the punishment assuming the punishment fits the scale of the charges.
Read a few articles today that basically said Al Mubarak is in too deep at City to let it fail. He's too powerful politically and UAE won't tolerate anything that paints it in a bad light. More or less said they'll try and use geopolitical leverage to get out of this (as in "Hey, would be a shame if that fancy arms deal we just agreed to suddenly went to someone else, wouldn't it?").
Honestly, it's the only card they can play that makes sense when you compare it to what they have publicly declared. Continue to profess your innocence while in the background, you lean on certain people to get the outcome you want.
Honestly, it's the only card they can play that makes sense when you compare it to what they have publicly declared. Continue to profess your innocence while in the background, you lean on certain people to get the outcome you want.
Furlock Bones said:
remember, the cover up is what gets most in the end.
I'm still mad that Chelsea got away with their bs cheating last year because the "cooperated". I understand that it was under prior ownership, but they got a tiny fine and that was it.
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Dre_00 said:
Read a few articles today that basically said Al Mubarak is in too deep at City to let it fail. He's too powerful politically and UAE won't tolerate anything that paints it in a bad light. More or less said they'll try and use geopolitical leverage to get out of this (as in "Hey, would be a shame if that fancy arms deal we just agreed to suddenly went to someone else, wouldn't it?").
Honestly, it's the only card they can play that makes sense when you compare it to what they have publicly declared. Continue to profess your innocence while in the background, you lean on certain people to get the outcome you want.
I've seen some of that today as well. The other one I've seen is something along the lines of "we're too big to fail! Could you imagine the EPL WITHOUT Manchester City??? It would be like La Liga without Real Madrid or the Bundesliga without Bayern Munich! The fallout for English football would be massive!"
It'll be interesting because I think one of the minimum punishments should be a forced sale of the club. Every violation is an example of a reason a prospective owner would fail the Premier League's Owners' and Directors' Test. Reasons for failing the test include things like serious breaches of football regulations and failure to be transparent.
And we all know this didn't just magically stop in 2018. Its almost certainly continued all the way to present day.
And we all know this didn't just magically stop in 2018. Its almost certainly continued all the way to present day.
Also I find the red cartel thing a bit ironic. Both Liverpool and Arsenal wandered the desert for 30 and 20 years between titles because City came in and spent more money than either could.
I watched Arsenal sell their best players year after year back in the late 2000s and 2010s to stay in line with financial regulations while they built the Emirates. Wenger was bargain bin shopping for youth players and still managed to stay in the Top 4 for 20 straight years while doing it
I watched Arsenal sell their best players year after year back in the late 2000s and 2010s to stay in line with financial regulations while they built the Emirates. Wenger was bargain bin shopping for youth players and still managed to stay in the Top 4 for 20 straight years while doing it
Speaking of geopolitics, when I put my tin foil hat on - l find it very interesting that this investigation wrapped up while there's a blockade of Hormuz.
Seriously though, I've long thought that the reason for the slow investigation was exactly the situation you describe… some PMs tell folks at FA to drag their feet because some deal is needed with UAE.
But truly - it might actually be that his clout has run out, now that Europe has figured out how to supply themselves with energy from other sources for half a year.
I'm probably imagining things, but I do find the timing interesting.
Seriously though, I've long thought that the reason for the slow investigation was exactly the situation you describe… some PMs tell folks at FA to drag their feet because some deal is needed with UAE.
But truly - it might actually be that his clout has run out, now that Europe has figured out how to supply themselves with energy from other sources for half a year.
I'm probably imagining things, but I do find the timing interesting.
wangus12 said:
Also I find the red cartel thing a bit ironic. Both Liverpool and Arsenal wandered the desert for 30 and 20 years between titles because City came in and spent more money than either could.
I watched Arsenal sell their best players year after year back in the late 2000s and 2010s to stay in line with financial regulations while they built the Emirates. Wenger was bargain bin shopping for youth players and still managed to stay in the Top 4 for 20 straight years while doing it
Yeah, sorry. Arsenal weren't restricted by any rules. The owners just didn't want to operate at a big loss. They could have spent much more in the FFP years as well.
7nine
If you want a good illustration of why it's the Red Cartel, all you have to do is look at who would have won the years City did. If City didn't win. United, Liverpool amd Arse. The financial rules guarantee their continued dominance with no hope of any contenders other than a random miracle run like Leicester but even then, the big teams would just buy away their big players.
7nine
Dre_00 said:
My guess is that the appeals process will take ages but if it doesn't lead to an overturn, I would guess that the EPL would drop the hammer on them. The tone of that statement, and the degree to which City breached the rules, suggests they will.
I would not be surprised if the owners were forced to divest and the club was thrown out of the EPL altogether. The EFL has supposedly supported the idea of barring them from their leagues meaning that City would be playing non-league football.
They have to have a legal reason to appeal the decision though. It can't just be that they don't like, in their words, "the commission's opinion". There has to be specific legal reasons for the appeal. They say they have irrefutable evidence in their favor. Why would that evidence have not been presented during the initial trial. It won't be quick, but I think the appeals process will be quicker than the 3 year wait we had for this.
Texaggie7nine said:
If you want a good illustration of why it's the Red Cartel, all you have to do is look at who would have won the years City did. If City didn't win. United, Liverpool amd Arse. The financial rules guarantee their continued dominance with no hope of any contenders other than a random miracle run like Leicester but even then, the big teams would just buy away their big players.
In all those years you cheated Arsenal would never have won. They were a perennial 4th place team. It was Wenger's speciality. I'm no Arsenal fan but they didn't benefit from your team lying their assss off and falsifying their financial records.
Stuff like this got Italian teams relegated.
I'm also curious if this eventually boils over into actual criminal charges as well. If this wasn't a football team and just a regular company, it going into corporate fraud pretty quick. Also HMRC is probably gonna show up wanting to look into tax evasion and if City (and possibly also their players) owe the government a **** ton of money.
They didn't benefit because they are a protected team by the rules. As a top 3 revenue team.
7nine
Whatever evidence is allegedly irrefutable is almost certainly already in the record; the independent commission that heard the case just didn't reach the conclusion City felt should have been reached from the evidence. Appeals are generally not an invitation to present new evidence that you didn't present to the lower tribunal; quite the opposite (normally, and presumably here as well).
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