Side, a post of substance from you would be a treat. Clearly you are articulate enough to do so, if you only respected others enough to do so.

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Side, a post of substance from you would be a treat. Clearly you are articulate enough to do so, if you only respected others enough to do so.

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My sarcasm is the only thing of substance on this thread

Why is this a football topic?

It's rude. I ask you again, would you say these things in A face to face discussion.?

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This is going to put a lot of pressure on future ticket prices.

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Persactly, swat I'm talmbout. Also need our law school to pump 'em out to have our back. Finally I must add, tuck fexas.

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Side, a post of substance from you would be a treat. Clearly you are articulate enough to do so, if you only respected others enough to do so.

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Just ignore him Cecil. He refuses to be accountable for his immature and cowardly actions. It's an embarrassment that an Aggie has to resort to personal attacks and name calling because the majority of people don't agree with him.

I asked a tenured mays professor after my final what they thought about everything. She said it was a joke and the professors are spread too thin. They can't teach their classes the way they're supposed to, and all they want is the students money. So not only is the school going to be getting less qualified kids, it was also have pushed away top quality faculty.

They'll need at least that many to run the labs and grade papers.

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I asked a tenured mays professor after my final what they thought about everything. She said it was a joke and the professors are spread too thin. They can't teach their classes the way they're supposed to, and all they want is the students money. So not only is the school going to be getting less qualified kids, it was also have pushed away top quality faculty.

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The best professors I had were the non PhD'd who had industry experience. The tenured PhD types without industry experience were atrocious.

Your attention please: only 111 days remaining in the 2015 off-season.

I tend to agree but this one was one of two tenured that I really enjoyed. They both were involved in industry too though, so not academia only blowholes.

I agree that A&M should have the same admission standards at Texas (7% with test score qualifiers for business and engineering). Would solve a lot of current problems.

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I asked a tenured mays professor after my final what they thought about everything. She said it was a joke and the professors are spread too thin. They can't teach their classes the way they're supposed to, and all they want is the students money. So not only is the school going to be getting less qualified kids, it was also have pushed away top quality faculty.

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I've heard the same thing from a professor of mathematics. That the university physically isn't able to do that without doing significantly more online stuff.

I just don't see the point in expanding with no details on what the funding will be used for or what it will achieve.

Oh and yeah, the ROI is great. This isn't about NOW, this is preventative.

In addition, I believe it was Sid who mentioned that we're using some issues as a red herring. Really? The seal issue PROVED the BOR wasn't listening to the student body. Which is one of the central issues. In all honestly this is somewhat about enrollment because they ARE, at the very least, increasing enrollment significantly (25 x 25). But it's about more than that. It's about the university not listening to the student body. You know, those guys, who uh.... pay for everything? The convocation is clearly another red herring. I know for some it doesn't mean anything, but at the very least I'd like to not see something get removed (that's actually kind of cool...) due to enrollment being too big.

On a side note, related to the enrollment due to 25 x 25:

I took the engineering scholars class about a year ago. It was filled with some of the brightest people I'd ever met. We had dean Banks come in and her responses were essentially what was on the website with no explanations. One question was even "should I say I went to A&M before 25 x 25?" Kind of hilarious and sad at the same time. Does anyone honestly think more online (flipped) classes are a good thing?

If anyone is in engineering and would like to start a petition or something that'd be great. Not that it would be able to do anything, but it might be able to be used for demonstrative purposes and possibly ammo for the use of department heads (some of which are absolutely against it).

^ Only thing you can really do to try and make a difference is write the Governor and stop donating.

It looks like we are being seen as a great place

Sarcasm

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Are the kids being admitted now unqualified?
Some, top 10% rule guarantees some people will get in that wouldn't in a competitive application system.
Are we turning away high quality kids?
Yes. So are tu and every Ivy League school. Apparently still something to be said for restricting enrollment numbers.

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Yes. I can speak from experience. The 10% rule is screwing a lot of really bright kids.

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On a side note, related to the enrollment due to 25 x 25:

I took the engineering scholars class about a year ago. It was filled with some of the brightest people I'd ever met. We had dean Banks come in and her responses were essentially what was on the website with no explanations. One question was even "should I say I went to A&M before 25 x 25?" Kind of hilarious and sad at the same time. Does anyone honestly think more online (flipped) classes are a good thing?

If anyone is in engineering and would like to start a petition or something that'd be great. Not that it would be able to do anything, but it might be able to be used for demonstrative purposes and possibly ammo for the use of department heads (some of which are absolutely against it).

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I was in the same class maybe two years ago and got the same pitch from Robin Autenreith from the CivE department. One girl raised her hand and told a long story about how her professor really helped her learn programming one on one, and how she didn't think she would make it through without a small class size and non-online learning. Dr. Autenreith's response? "You are not an active learner, and you need to change." I couldn't believe the lack of compassion for the students. It's also worth noting that the administration is trying to get the honors and high performing students on board to sell the idea better.

I would definitely sign a petition, and I think engineering students will do the legwork to make themselves heard.

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Fighting entrenched interests in the public education biz will be the hard part in getting A&M to that desireable level...meanwhile in the real world we innovate and embrace progress - lifting an ever-growing population higher and higher.

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You can always depend on Sid to know the Perry playbook.

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Fighting entrenched interests in the public education biz will be the hard part in getting A&M to that desireable level...meanwhile in the real world we innovate and embrace progress - lifting an ever-growing population higher and higher.

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You can always depend on Sid to know the Perry playbook.

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Actually it's the Milton Friedman playbook.

Click. Read. Learn. Free your mind.

He's a sip and doesn't give a sheet about TAMU.

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Fighting entrenched interests in the public education biz will be the hard part in getting A&M to that desireable level...meanwhile in the real world we innovate and embrace progress - lifting an ever-growing population higher and higher.

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You can always depend on Sid to know the Perry playbook.

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Actually it's the Milton Friedman playbook.

Click. Read. Learn. Free your mind.

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Nah. I know lots of publicly funded professors. They aren't the bogeyman. Keep your propaganda to yourself. You, specifically, are the reason our university is being made a laughing stock.

That's absolutely horrible. And yeah, but I don't think a petition now would be any good. I think when the semester starts. Nobody wants to be actively involved in anything right now. Other than those hilarious Bevel A&M Guys...

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The acceptance rate also includes Blinn team and Gateway - these kids aren't even on the CS campus.

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Not sure about Blinn Team, but Gateway students most definitely are on the CS campus.

Blinn team members are on campus for one of their classes each semester. They can live on campus, be in th Corps, run for class office, etc. There's only two things they can't do 1) Play an NCAA sport 2) join a sorority

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Get rid of Blinn Team and the TAMU/Blinn Engineering Academy. Quit trying to make A&M accessible to anybody and everybody. That's what UH, Tech, UT-Arlington and all the other 3rd tier schools are for. Texas needs A&M and UT-Austin to be top 20 universities.

Sharp has to go and the regents need to be kept in line by the alumni.

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Congratulations upon acquiring the psycic foresight which allows you the ability to say your kids will go to tu. No doubt this abilty will serve you well in other aspects of life and raising children.

Meanwhile, please allow us mere mortals the hope that A&M remains steadfast to the ideals upon which it was founded...... as a land grant college, A&M was established to provide higher education to students who, for reasons financial or related to academic preparation, could not obtain admission to Baylor, tu, Haavod, Yale, or the "top 10" or "top 20" universities of the day.

In the course of developing the minds and character of these students, and through the work ethic and capabilities demonstrated by its faculty and former students, A&M acquired a reputation as the best place in Texas to obtain a degree in agriculture and engineering. This reputation, or "ranking" was not conferred, or possibly even shared, by the likes of USN&WR, DMN, or the WSJ. It was conferred by the PARENTS of the sons and daughters whom they could afford to send to A&M, together with the individuals, companies, and organizations which hired the Former Students.

There will always be a majority who believe this is the only ranking which matters.

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Get rid of Blinn Team and the TAMU/Blinn Engineering Academy. Quit trying to make A&M accessible to anybody and everybody. That's what UH, Tech, UT-Arlington and all the other 3rd tier schools are for. Texas needs A&M and UT-Austin to be top 20 universities.

Sharp has to go and the regents need to be kept in line by the alumni.

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Congratulations upon acquiring the psycic foresight which allows you the ability to say your kids will go to tu. No doubt this abilty will serve you well in other aspects of life and raising children.

Meanwhile, please allow us mere mortals the hope that A&M remains steadfast to the ideals upon which it was founded...... as a land grant college, A&M was established to provide higher education to students who, for reasons financial or related to academic preparation, could not obtain admission to Baylor, tu, Haavod, Yale, or the "top 10" or "top 20" universities of the day.

In the course of developing the minds and character of these students, and through the work ethic and capabilities demonstrated by its faculty and former students, A&M acquired a reputation as the best place in Texas to obtain a degree in agriculture and engineering. This reputation, or "ranking" was not conferred, or possibly even shared, by the likes of USN&WR, DMN, or the WSJ. It was conferred by the PARENTS of the sons and daughters whom they could afford to send to A&M, together with the individuals, companies, and organizations which hired the Former Students.

There will always be a majority who believe this is the only ranking which matters.

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There is a lot of nostalgia in this post, and it sounds perfectly well and good for the world that existed 40 years ago when simply having a college degree was enough to set graduates apart from their high-school diploma wielding competition for jobs.

But the reality is that the operational model you are advocating would be detrimental to the state and to A&Ms graduates in the modern day economy and job market.

The job market is flooded with college graduates who can't find decent employment, and end up working in jobs they could have gotten straight out of high school, except they're $25,000 in debt, and lost four years worth of earning money and gaining work experience. Starting people's working lives 4 years late and $25k in the hole isn't doing anyone any favors, and that exactly where your mentality, and those who share it, are leading us. College is essentially the new high school, except it costs a lot of money that those attending generally don't have

If you want to do your graduates a favor, make sure that your education is valuable enough, and your reputation prestigious enough, to make your graduates stand out from their competition. Thats what is going to keep A&M's value high going forward. And it's the exact opposite of the path the BOR is on.

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You have to keep in mind that some posters attended A&M when it was a 4 year community college (early 70's and prior), and their comments reflect that.

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The condescension of many younger Ags toward older Ags is incomprehensible. This statement could not be further from the truth. The value of the A&M degree of today was earned on the merits of those past generations of graduates! What is true is that A&M of earlier years took rich and poor, rural and urban - and suburban - some "provisional" students - and weeded them out through the toothpaste tube of "Aggie Culture" and intense student classwork matriculation process (often with a high dropout rate) into responsible leaders of industry, commerce, and the military - especially in the state of Texas. As A&M has grown over the years and diversified its reputation has become more national and international in scope and nature.

My view of "rankings" are from a totally different perspective.

A degree from A&M is meaningful today because Ags who graduated in past generations were/are successful and have established a reputation for being resourceful, knowledgeable, hard working, dependable, and just plain old "good folks" with whom everyone from an elitist to the common working man could communicate, interact, and talk plainly and openly and still be a friend. This is win-win in the working world!!

The idea that engineers should not know how to use basic mechanical shop equipment or architects should not know how to drive a nail with a hammer is nonsense. Without the rudimentary knowledge of basic mechanics and real life social interaction skills how can one be a knowledgeable professional and thus produce fundamentally practical and sound solutions to complex theoretical as well as real world design problems? We are all familiar with the "4-eyed genius who has no common sense" discussion. Historically, Aggies are NOT that type of individual and generally are practical in their professional and every day lives and activities...

The reputation of Aggies in the business world is polar opposite to our counterparts at t.u., Baylor, etc., who in many ways like to denigrate and condescendingly look down their noses at everyone else as they set themselves up as entitled, narcissistic and somehow more special whilst generally being" progressive" in their culture. I, for one, do not want to lose the reputation that has been established for A&M for grass roots down-to-earth honesty and leadership - and for the most part - are called "boss" by many of those who graduated from those other institutions of learning.

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics top ten occupations are listed at:
http://www.military.com/veteran-jobs/career-advice/job-hunting/top-10-paying-jobs-in-the-us.html
I believe A&M has excelled in every one of these areas of study in the past and continues to aim for excellence - and growth - in these sorts of careers and should be commended for doing so. One of the reasons lesser campuses in the A&M System cannot provide the same level of education is because there has to be a nucleus of education/research/development that only comes with numbers and excellence.

As the state of Texas grows and many other campuses are simply blocked in from expansion A&M has a lot of room to expand. To say that A&M will fall behind, say, UTDallas and at the same time say that UTDallas is 90% engineering just shows that they have focused on a particular segment of education. And, UTAustin still has much of its reputation based on Liberal and Fine Arts that it must maintain that A&M does not, so if they want to limit growth at 45,000 they are simply watering down some of the areas A&M wants to build up...

I don't believe anyone is a proponent of growth without maintaining selectivity, proper infrastructure and support. To do so would be foolish - but IF the entrance requirements remain rigid (or moreso) and the infrastructure and support can be provided, why not - so long as the culture can also be retained so that future generations can know how special being an Aggie really is?

There has been a lot of criticism of Chancellor Sharp on this thread. Perhaps much of it is deserved; however, without a President for several months, Sharp has been the focus of much discussion and he has spoken openly. The 25x25 initiative is not his (in fact started before he came to A&M?) - but he supports it. It will be interesting how our new president takes on these challenges. He is known as a big R&D supporter and thus it would appear be in favor of stronger academic levels to increase reputation and graduate levels of study.

It will be interesting to watch.
Not everyone who comes to A&M and puts on a maroon sport coat and says "Gig 'em" knows what the A&M culture really is all about - this is true of administrators, educators - and coaches - and alas, many "new army" students - who like it or not are riding the coattails of generations of Former students, If a student wants to go to t.u. or others instead of A&M, let 'em - A&M does not need to be like everyone else and has its own unique character. I for one want to keep it that way - and let the new Ags who want to be here carry on the proud traditions that make A&M special!

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Get rid of Blinn Team and the TAMU/Blinn Engineering Academy. Quit trying to make A&M accessible to anybody and everybody. That's what UH, Tech, UT-Arlington and all the other 3rd tier schools are for. Texas needs A&M and UT-Austin to be top 20 universities.

Sharp has to go and the regents need to be kept in line by the alumni.

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Congratulations upon acquiring the psycic foresight which allows you the ability to say your kids will go to tu. No doubt this abilty will serve you well in other aspects of life and raising children.

Meanwhile, please allow us mere mortals the hope that A&M remains steadfast to the ideals upon which it was founded...... as a land grant college, A&M was established to provide higher education to students who, for reasons financial or related to academic preparation, could not obtain admission to Baylor, tu, Haavod, Yale, or the "top 10" or "top 20" universities of the day.

In the course of developing the minds and character of these students, and through the work ethic and capabilities demonstrated by its faculty and former students, A&M acquired a reputation as the best place in Texas to obtain a degree in agriculture and engineering. This reputation, or "ranking" was not conferred, or possibly even shared, by the likes of USN&WR, DMN, or the WSJ. It was conferred by the PARENTS of the sons and daughters whom they could afford to send to A&M, together with the individuals, companies, and organizations which hired the Former Students.

There will always be a majority who believe this is the only ranking which matters.

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There is a lot of nostalgia in this post, and it sounds perfectly well and good for the world that existed 40 years ago when simply having a college degree was enough to set graduates apart from their high-school diploma wielding competition for jobs.

But the reality is that the operational model you are advocating would be detrimental to the state and to A&Ms graduates in the modern day economy and job market.

The job market is flooded with college graduates who can't find decent employment, and end up working in jobs they could have gotten straight out of high school, except they're $25,000 in debt, and lost four years worth of earning money and gaining work experience. Starting people's working lives 4 years late and $25k in the hole isn't doing anyone any favors, and that exactly where your mentality, and those who share it, are leading us. College is essentially the new high school, except it costs a lot of money that those attending generally don't have

If you want to do your graduates a favor, make sure that your education is valuable enough, and your reputation prestigious enough, to make your graduates stand out from their competition. Thats what is going to keep A&M's value high going forward. And it's the exact opposite of the path the BOR is on.

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Ok, I agree with a lot of what I think you are saying. What you call nostalgia I call life in the real world after leaving high school. I had counsel and encouragement from A&M graduates from the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, and 60's.

My concept of the "value" of a degree from a university is determined by the cost of the degree as well as the opportunities (social and economic) the degree affords the recipient. I think some have posted a concern that the value of their degree is diminished if A&M increases enrollment and affords more students the opportunity to obtain a degree in the same field as they. Maybe it will be cause for concern...that is life, this is Texas, USA, and there is not a better place on earth for them to deal with such a problem than right here.....they are indeed fortunate.

I can most certainly assure you the concern you express regarding graduates leaving A&M with lots of debt and no job prospects is not the result of the mentality of folk like myself. I acquired enuff maths in high school to figure what four years at A&M would cost, what I could earn with a bs in civil engineering, and what I could earn working without the degree. I determined the degree had VALUE. I determined other degrees had no value to me as I could go to work and earn more. Somewhere between then and now the student loan program easy money enabled stupidity to flourish. I suspect some schools were as stupid as some students. I always heard that A&M had the lowest student loan default numbers in the nation. That may have been nostalgia, however, as I did not have internet access back then to verify the accuracy of the statement.

I did not know just any college degree would help get a job for an applicant over another without it. I know in times past a 21 yr old with a few years work experience and modest ability supervised guys who had their masters and doctorate degrees. These were not pleasant times, and as I write this I've wondered if any had doubts as to the value of their degree. Thing is, it wasn't that the degree was insignificant, it just wasn't relevant at the time and the task at hand. But times change.

Lastly, consider this if you will please. What would be the response or reaction if the universities, or state legislatures, determined which degrees were valuable? For example, to achieve the 25 x 25 initiative with the engineering college or STEM curriculum, say resources were redistributed at the A&M main campus to achieve the goal. You know, do away with those programs or departments which are determined to add no real value to what Texas really needs today and in the future. Yeah, that's the ticket.....I dare say the resulting ****storm would turn my nostalgia to wisdom in a heartbeat.

Whichever of you are writing more than the paragraphs, I can assure you your posts aren't being read.

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Meanwhile, please allow us mere mortals the hope that A&M remains steadfast to the ideals upon which it was founded...... as a land grant college,

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USC and Darmouth both were land grand colleges. That historical fact shouldn't drive what we strive for today.

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. You know, do away with those programs or departments which are determined to add no real value to what Texas really needs today and in the future.

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I disagree. This comment is the "training model" which isn't what a great university is supposed to be.

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Lastly, consider this if you will please. What would be the response or reaction if the universities, or state legislatures, determined which degrees were valuable? For example, to achieve the 25 x 25 initiative with the engineering college or STEM curriculum, say resources were redistributed at the A&M main campus to achieve the goal. You know, do away with those programs or departments which are determined to add no real value to what Texas really needs today and in the future. Yeah, that's the ticket.....I dare say the resulting ****storm would turn my nostalgia to wisdom in a heartbeat.

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I don't understand this part of your post. Are you saying that it would be a good idea to get rid of or gut programs that aren't "valuable"?

Aggie1 - blue star for you

Cecil's position is the one I'd advocate. Things I say are too inflammatory. Thanks Cecil.

Liberal arts are part of a well rounded university. Just because they don't get recruited at the same level, doesn't mean there isn't inherent value.