quote:You have conceded that you have been beaten, so now you're making up your own definitions (and inputs thereto) of excellence. Texas A&M isn't somehow better than other universities simply because you believe their populations don't agree with your political bent.quote:
What the hell does PC culture have to do with academic ranking ?quote:...there's no shortage of quotes on education. Google will kick out thousands of em...
You can teach a student a lesson for a day; but if you can teach him to learn by creating curiosity, he will continue the learning process as long as he lives.
Clay P. Bedford
I don't know how rankings became the end-all metric for quality of education. Maybe it's just an easy/simple thing to reference for comparison and competition?
I will assert that A&M provides a comparably unbeatable environment. One that defies stunted curiosity. ref prev posted examples Mizzou and UW-Madison. Those are places where unconventional (read: anti-PC) thought is punished and dogma substitutes for enlightened thought. (Very unhealthy for developing minds)
I don't know who clay Bedford is, but I'll bet he'd say A&M is relativley a much better place to instill curiosity, thus better preparing students for lifelong learning.
80,000 A&M students in 10 years
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Last: 10 mo ago by Bill Superman
quote:No one believes a ranking to be "the end-all metric for quality education". I've repeatedly stated that on this thread alone. However, they also don't mean nothing, as you have stated.
I don't know how rankings became the end-all metric for quality of education. Maybe it's just an easy/simple thing to reference for comparison and competition?
quote:Compared to who? UT? Harvard? Darmouth? MIT? Texas State? Michigan?
I will assert that A&M provides a comparably unbeatable environment
Regardless of where you believe we are now, nothing is stagnant. The question is "where are we going?"
As I have been exposed to more colleges and universities, my opinion of A&M (and I am an Aggie) had lessened, not deepened. We are as susceptible to group-think as anyone else - perhaps moreso. It just happens to be group-think with which I mostly agree, but it's group-think nonetheless. Just look at all the denigrating remarks about liberal arts on this thread. That alone shows an embarrassing ignorance among some Aggies. And even your seeming to lump together any institution perceived as more "liberal" than us as being the worse for it tends to such group-think.
What happened/is happening at Missouri is a mess.
However, Wisconsin, at least, still has a fantastic track record for producing innovative, forward-thinking, ambitious, and yes, curious graduates.
I realize the student-body in Madison is known to be "progressive", but "progressive" does not equal the smothering of curiosity. In fact, inherent in much progressive thought is the questioning of norms, the questioning of current conditions. In other words, there is a good amount of "curiosity" built into progressive thought.
A segment of modern American progressive thought is questioning racial conditions in the United States. And that is not a bad thing. That means they are questioning the world around them. That is curiosity.
More threatening to curiosity, I think, is the fear of exposure to other viewpoints that you've displayed, Sid Farkas.
Even at Missouri, that a group of people got very angry at what you have to admit were some vile incidents and asked for the wrong things (resignations, certain hiring practices), I don't that it means curiosity has been squandered on the campus. Its surely sparked a lot of debate, a lot of discussion on that campus. It has certainly sparked much thought around the country.
Again, its a mess and when people (on both sides of the issue) feel unsafe, you have a real problem.
However, Wisconsin, at least, still has a fantastic track record for producing innovative, forward-thinking, ambitious, and yes, curious graduates.
I realize the student-body in Madison is known to be "progressive", but "progressive" does not equal the smothering of curiosity. In fact, inherent in much progressive thought is the questioning of norms, the questioning of current conditions. In other words, there is a good amount of "curiosity" built into progressive thought.
A segment of modern American progressive thought is questioning racial conditions in the United States. And that is not a bad thing. That means they are questioning the world around them. That is curiosity.
More threatening to curiosity, I think, is the fear of exposure to other viewpoints that you've displayed, Sid Farkas.
Even at Missouri, that a group of people got very angry at what you have to admit were some vile incidents and asked for the wrong things (resignations, certain hiring practices), I don't that it means curiosity has been squandered on the campus. Its surely sparked a lot of debate, a lot of discussion on that campus. It has certainly sparked much thought around the country.
Again, its a mess and when people (on both sides of the issue) feel unsafe, you have a real problem.
All right...so I point out that A&M has the benefit of not having a culture of punishing political correctness like many other universities and Then I go on to cite two examples...
I get two replies: one asking for examples and another accusing me of political bias (political bias is equivalent to political correctness)
Im now forced to make another assertion...maybe A&M is failing. (assuming Tango also got his degree at A&M)
I get two replies: one asking for examples and another accusing me of political bias (political bias is equivalent to political correctness)
Im now forced to make another assertion...maybe A&M is failing. (assuming Tango also got his degree at A&M)
There is more to creating an academic atmosphere of "curiosity" then not-punishing PC thought. I think that is the point.
What happened at Missouri may not have occurred at Texas A&M, but as Cecil pointed out, even this very thread has shown that many at Texas A&M have a strong hostility towards certain degrees and worse, certain viewpoints.
A&M may not be as sensitive as some other student-bodies and faculties to issues of race, but that does not preclude A&M from having other problems that prevent it from being a choice destination for the world's "curious" thinkers.
That could be hostility towards other viewpoints, crowded facilities because the student population has grown faster than we can keep up with, lack of access to professors because we haven't hired enough to keep up with growth of the student body, etc.
What happened at Missouri may not have occurred at Texas A&M, but as Cecil pointed out, even this very thread has shown that many at Texas A&M have a strong hostility towards certain degrees and worse, certain viewpoints.
A&M may not be as sensitive as some other student-bodies and faculties to issues of race, but that does not preclude A&M from having other problems that prevent it from being a choice destination for the world's "curious" thinkers.
That could be hostility towards other viewpoints, crowded facilities because the student population has grown faster than we can keep up with, lack of access to professors because we haven't hired enough to keep up with growth of the student body, etc.
quote:This.
There is more to creating an academic atmosphere of "curiosity" then not-punishing PC thought. I think that is the point.
What happened at Missouri may not have occurred at Texas A&M, but as Cecil pointed out, even this very thread has shown that many at Texas A&M have a strong hostility towards certain degrees and worse, certain viewpoints.
A&M may not be as sensitive as some other student-bodies and faculties to issues of race, but that does not preclude A&M from having other problems that prevent it from being a choice destination for the world's "curious" thinkers.
That could be hostility towards other viewpoints, crowded facilities because the student population has grown faster than we can keep up with, lack of access to professors because we haven't hired enough to keep up with growth of the student body, etc.
It's not just a problem at A&M, of course, but the fact that it's a problem elsewhere should not make it OK here.
I stumbled on a mention of this 2011 book which I will now have to put on my need to read list.
quote:I don't know if A&M was included in the longitudinal study, but my anecdotal sense is that we would be as bad as everyone else. Because the scale issues here make it even harder for us to teach or test critical thinking, analytical reasoning, and writing when you've got sections that drive you to use multiple choice tests. Not all multiple choice tests are equally bad, but there is real no substitute for reading what students write, giving them feedback, and having them rewrite. Or the same for oral presentation.
In its barest bones, Arum and Roksa's empirical message is a simple one. Many young people do not learn as much in the first two years of college as we would hope and expect that they would. They learn relatively little because many don't work very hard at their studies and are more focused on social experiences than they are on academic achievement. The unwillingness of young people to work hard is largely because no one, their professors most of all, expect them to work hard. Moreover, too many of the institutions in which they are enrolled seem to focus more on social life than on academic life. Next, and this aspect of Adrift has received less attention than the findings about learning and expectations, this dynamic helps no one, but it harms students of color and students with lesser financial resources more than it harms majority and more relatively affluent students. Finally, there are many, many instances of professors and their institutions bucking these trends and finding ways to promote the learning of the young people who have been put in their care.
Despite what many legislators, foundation officers, and business representatives often say to the contrary, measuring learning in higher education is hard and problematic. This difficulty, though, is not a warrant for educators to ignore the measurement of learning. How much students learn in college matters, and the value of Arum and Roksa's efforts ultimately rises or falls on how well they resolve this difficulty. Reasoning that students in any institution and in any sort of academic program should be expected to gain critical thinking skills over the first two years of college, the authors build their evidentiary case on an analysis of the Collegiate Learning Assessment (CLA), in particular its measures of critical thinking, analytical reasoning, and writing. They supplement this information with survey and transcript data. Their longitudinal data on over 2,000 traditional-age students enrolled across some two dozen diverse campuses is easily up to the tasks they set for themselves.
My colleagues and I deserve our share of the blame both here and nationally. But we are also responding to the incentive structures and revealed preferences of our environment.
Great quotes and comments.
Also, I have come to learn that an advantage the "elite" schools have (at least they sure seem to) is that they START with more curious students. (or "serious" or "focused" or whatever other adjective you choose)
Also, I have come to learn that an advantage the "elite" schools have (at least they sure seem to) is that they START with more curious students. (or "serious" or "focused" or whatever other adjective you choose)
It can be a wonderful thing to listen along with 300 other undergraduates to a masterful professor lecture on a subject he or she cares deeply about and has done research on. Every college student deserves such a professor.
But college students also deserve to be in classes intimate enough that they can engage in a real give-and-take conversation with their professors concerning the academic subjects of those classes.
They deserve to be in classes that force them to write early and often and at some length. As the old quote goes, "How do I know what I mean until I see what I say?" Writing, done correctly, is a form of intellectual discovery.
That isn't going to happen very often in a university with 50+ thousand students and a large ratio of students to professors. In that sense, A&M is already too big.
Cecil has a good point when he notes that more selective schools select students who are, in general, more curious, focused, and willing to accept difficult and demanding classes early on.
None of this means that all Aggies have to be stereotyped nerds or bookworms or socially inept.
But college students also deserve to be in classes intimate enough that they can engage in a real give-and-take conversation with their professors concerning the academic subjects of those classes.
They deserve to be in classes that force them to write early and often and at some length. As the old quote goes, "How do I know what I mean until I see what I say?" Writing, done correctly, is a form of intellectual discovery.
That isn't going to happen very often in a university with 50+ thousand students and a large ratio of students to professors. In that sense, A&M is already too big.
Cecil has a good point when he notes that more selective schools select students who are, in general, more curious, focused, and willing to accept difficult and demanding classes early on.
None of this means that all Aggies have to be stereotyped nerds or bookworms or socially inept.
Hell, one of my Bonfire crew chiefs was a nuke-E and rocked a 4.0 his chief semester. He was a rail-thin super nerd and about as red ass as anyone who's been through this school. There's all types out there, but part of what matters is if they embrace the school.
Talk about a school's academic progress coming to a screeching halt.
How the hell is nuke?!
I haven't talked to him in about 3 years!
I haven't talked to him in about 3 years!
So while A&M has been plummeting in the rankings John Sharp has been getting fat raises.
quote:https://www.texastribune.org/2016/04/29/their-pay-grows-some-texas-university-leaders-beco/
A&M System Chancellor John Sharp received a raise from $507,000 per year to $900,000 per year in 2015. His total compensation, including non-salary benefits, was reported as $1.1 million.
The insane growth of administrative bureaucracy roles has primarily driven the cost of higher education. You could hire 4-5 professors with that raise...
John Sharp will be remembered as the guy that destroyed a great institution while lining his own pockets.
Last of the good old boys club.
Last of the good old boys club.
quote:
John Sharp will be remembered as the guy that destroyed a great institution while lining his own pockets.
Last of the good old boys club.
Yep
And he'll probably get the regents to name a building after him when he's done.
Texas A&M building $150 million research campus on old air base
quote:
A key part of the ambitious project will be a new education center that will offer a four-year college degree path for students who didn't make the cut for admission to A&M's College Station campus, but still want to live in Bryan-College Station. Students could start their degrees at the center and could graduate from the center or transfer to main campus.
quote:More good info re: the new campus on the 'construction' thread here:
Texas A&M building $150 million research campus on old air basequote:
A key part of the ambitious project will be a new education center that will offer a four-year college degree path for students who didn't make the cut for admission to A&M's College Station campus, but still want to live in Bryan-College Station. Students could start their degrees at the center and could graduate from the center or transfer to main campus.
https://texags.com/forums/25/topics/2650619
I advise everyone here to keep up with that thread. Nice to see how our great university is becoming even greater. Thanks Pres Sharp for all you do for the A&M community. Nice work!
Slight correction : Sharp is System Chancellor and Young is flagship campus President.
quote:So this is a fall back plan for those who aren't qualified to get into Blinn?
Students could start their degrees at the center and could graduate from the center or transfer to main campus.
quote:He had it right the first time.
Slight correction : Sharp is System Chancellor and Young is flagship campus President.
quote:quote:More good info re: the new campus on the 'construction' thread here:
Texas A&M building $150 million research campus on old air basequote:
A key part of the ambitious project will be a new education center that will offer a four-year college degree path for students who didn't make the cut for admission to A&M's College Station campus, but still want to live in Bryan-College Station. Students could start their degrees at the center and could graduate from the center or transfer to main campus.
https://texags.com/forums/25/topics/2650619
I advise everyone here to keep up with that thread. Nice to see how our great university is becoming even greater. Thanks Pres Sharp for all you do for the A&M community. Nice work!
Sid, you obviously are closely related to Sharp, so I'll ask you:
What will the graduates from the new education center have on their diploma?
"Texas A&M University - well sorta"
"Almost Texas A&M University"
"Texas A&M Lite"
Just curious...
quote:
The university will spend $25 million to demolish 32 old buildings on the air base tract, rebuild roads and upgrade utilities.
Could they PUL-eeze set aside some $$$ to rebuild the road over by Beutel on the main campus? I think the sinkhole is going to swallow a bus if it gets any larger. Their patch job only provides a little rubble for the cars so they don't fall in....
What will be the standard for students to be able to transfer from the Education Center to Main Campus?
Would a more efficient use of those funds be to improve existing campuses in the A&M system, in hopes of getting more students to attend those campuses?
Would a more efficient use of those funds be to improve existing campuses in the A&M system, in hopes of getting more students to attend those campuses?
quote:quote:More good info re: the new campus on the 'construction' thread here:
Texas A&M building $150 million research campus on old air basequote:
A key part of the ambitious project will be a new education center that will offer a four-year college degree path for students who didn't make the cut for admission to A&M's College Station campus, but still want to live in Bryan-College Station. Students could start their degrees at the center and could graduate from the center or transfer to main campus.
https://texags.com/forums/25/topics/2650619
I advise everyone here to keep up with that thread. Nice to see how our great university is becoming even greater. Thanks Pres Sharp for all you do for the A&M community. Nice work!
So now anyone who lives in CStat can go to these centers and transfer in? Why do we have system schools at all? Next they'll be selling videos you can watch that come with a degree.
This thread needs to go, btw. It's pretty much set in stone what they want. The best we can do is sit back and watch it become mediocre.
What can be done to change Sharp's mind or, failing that, limit the damage?
quote:
What can be done to change Sharp's mind or, failing that, limit the damage?
Sharp needs to be replaced by someone who knows how to run a Tier 1 university, not an Aggie politician.
This is getting out of control. Sharp needs to go now.
Agree. He's in the job long enough, time to go.
I have to believe that Chancellor Sharp cares about Texas A&M. Maybe he just doesn't know better.
He has done some good things. But it does appear on the surface that his view of what it means to be numbered among the best is different from what is expected from someone overseeing institutions of higher learning. I want to believe he cares about all the member institutions in the system. Maybe there are substantial efforts in process at those campuses to make them stronger and more desirable. I really hope so.
He has done some good things. But it does appear on the surface that his view of what it means to be numbered among the best is different from what is expected from someone overseeing institutions of higher learning. I want to believe he cares about all the member institutions in the system. Maybe there are substantial efforts in process at those campuses to make them stronger and more desirable. I really hope so.
quote:quote:quote:More good info re: the new campus on the 'construction' thread here:
Texas A&M building $150 million research campus on old air basequote:
A key part of the ambitious project will be a new education center that will offer a four-year college degree path for students who didn't make the cut for admission to A&M's College Station campus, but still want to live in Bryan-College Station. Students could start their degrees at the center and could graduate from the center or transfer to main campus.
https://texags.com/forums/25/topics/2650619
I advise everyone here to keep up with that thread. Nice to see how our great university is becoming even greater. Thanks Pres Sharp for all you do for the A&M community. Nice work!
So now anyone who lives in CStat can go to these centers and transfer in? Why do we have system schools at all? Next they'll be selling videos you can watch that come with a degree.
This thread needs to go, btw. It's pretty much set in stone what they want. The best we can do is sit back and watch it become mediocre.
I see it as now we have another school, in close proximity, that we can use to build our main campus student body with.
Also, I hope this is an "SEC" move. In that we are able to utilize this campus to bring in sports talents that we can enroll for a short period, Keep them close to A&M, and pluck from to utilize their talents on the main campus.
My goodness I hope you're being sarcastic.
quote:Oy vey.
Also, I hope this is an "SEC" move. In that we are able to utilize this campus to bring in sports talents that we can enroll for a short period, Keep them close to A&M, and pluck from to utilize their talents on the main campus.
Sh****Texas is having a laugh at our expense FYI.
Every happy meal will come with a degree and an Aggie ring.
Ugh.
Every happy meal will come with a degree and an Aggie ring.
Ugh.
quote:
Sh****Texas is having a laugh at our expense FYI.
Every happy meal will come with a degree and an Aggie ring.
Ugh.
Anyone remember the stat on actual graduates to fan ratio?
You are reading comments from a bunch of Walmart shoppers.
There are some strategies that probably should be adjusted. On the whole Chancellor Sharp has done a number of good things. I am confident that President Young will help calibrate things. He has a sterling reputation in academic circles. Texas A&M is a great institution. I see bigger things ahead. Just have to be mindful to want to continually strive for greatness.
Not settle for mediocrity.
And as far as what gets posted on a sip message board, they will act like that regardless. I thought that A&M was irrelevant to them. They seem to always find time in their day for A&M. Telling.
Not settle for mediocrity.
And as far as what gets posted on a sip message board, they will act like that regardless. I thought that A&M was irrelevant to them. They seem to always find time in their day for A&M. Telling.
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