wbt5845 said:

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Why are y'all so forgiving of a police department failing at finding this murderer? I bet if someone you know gets murdered you wouldn't be so cavalier about it.

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Not forgiving so much as realizing that, as I stated several years ago, 25-50 percent of ALL murders (sometimes more) depending on the jurisdiction go unsolved. If there's a single person, no witness, the perp disposes of the evidence, doesn't talk, and leaves a scarce trail of bread crumbs both before and after the murder itself, the chances of getting away with the crime are very good.

If someone kills someone that they'd become an immediate suspect for their murder, then yeah, the likelihood of them getting caught is significantly high. But in cases like this where the police have no idea who did it or why, and the perp doesn't make a mistake (like trying to move the body or messing with blood everywhere), then its not really hard for me to believe they could get away with it.

I do think Midlothian should have brought in the Rangers or the FBI much sooner. Like the day they found out.

Thread bump. I have no idea why but I randomly thought about this case yesterday. Maybe because of the murder in the news and the manhunt for the hiker guy. For a while I thought it was just a matter of time before we heard that there was an arrest in Midlothian. Now, over 5 years later, seems like someone literally got away with murder.

As was said earlier in this thread, Midlothian seems like a great place to commit murder.

A stone cold whodunnit. Impressive in a way.

Get Chris Lambert to do a podcast on this murder.

Drove by there a few weeks ago and it got me thinking about the case too.

Just so odd to have video of the perp and nothing. And video of a car as I recall at a nearby business

Drove by there a few weeks ago and it got me thinking about the case too.

Just so odd to have video of the perp and nothing. And video of a car as I recall at a nearby business

fc2112 said:

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As was said earlier in this thread, Midlothian seems like a great place to commit murder.

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So, you did it!

Thought about this case tonight again for some reason. Going to be next to impossible to get a conviction now unless someone talks or confesses. Evidence is long gone and whatever the police have doesn't link to anyone, otherwise they'd have them -- UNLESS there's DNA, blood/hair/etc. that they don't have a match for.

Surely the weapon and the clothing have been disposed of. So the question becomes, does a short person with that walk, with known purchases of that type of clothing (through electronic records, if they exist), evidence of ownership of a similar type of vehicle seen at the time, and no confirmed alibi of the morning in question, get convicted of murder on that circumstantial evidence? This assumes the police luck into someone by happenstance and get these records.

Its a lot of coincidences, and it obviously depends on the defense, but enough to overcome reasonable doubt? Without evidence of a motive, I'd say no.

Would really want to know what they aren't telling us.

Southlake said:

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Would really want to know what they aren't telling us.

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Im closely related to a Midlothian detective. And I don't believe there's really anything they aren't telling you.

The crazy truth is this. If you plan it out solo and keep your mouth shut, you've got a good chance of getting away with murder.

Looking for weather updates and saw this bumped...

I've always wondered why the police or FBI couldn't zero in on the uniqueness of the murder weapon. I can't confirm, but based on the murder weapon description of a "pointed hammer" it sounded to me like the perp used a rock hammer. How many rock hammers are sold?
I'd venture to guess there wouldn't be that many sold compared to reg hammers in a short few month time period before the murder happened.

Does anyone know if the police tried look into that?

It seems like most murders are solved by someone talking or someone being outrageously sloppy. It just so happens that most murderers are dumbasses that mess up one of these factors, so a lot of them get solved. But this killer had his or her stuff locked down. The car on video was the closest to solving this, but even modern security cams seem to do a poor job of catching plate #s

I've got a couple of nest cams at my house and acknowledge they'll likely never be useful for a damn thing even if some sort of crime happened

There's a 4 hour deep dive video on YouTube that I got sucked into last week and the guy does talk about the hammer quite a bit. Seems to think it has a fairly unique white band around the handle, among other things.

Edit: I'm also curious about cell phone data that was requested. Apparently there was a subpoena issued to AT&T to get a list of phones that registered on their network within 5 miles of the church, in a hour or two window before/after the murder. The guy who made the video raised some very good questions about why apparently only AT&T was considered. What about Verizon, T-Mobile, etc.

I would at least have wanted to see the data from other carriers, and also ask if they could provide details on any handsets that were in a much larger surrounding area (say a 25 mile radius), powered down before the crime, then re- registered on the network some period of time afterward. This is a classic data mining problem that I'm not sure the Midlothian PD were equipped to handle.

Fair, but only asking AT&T for records is just mind boggling.

akaggie05 said:

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Fair, but only asking AT&T for records is just mind boggling.

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Maybe, or maybe they had a suspect with an ATT phone and that is what they are checking.

That church where the murder was is right on US 287. I'm guessing many thousands of cell phones passed through there in the 2 hours before and after.

This case reminds me a lot of the Delphi Murders which is also mind blowing in terms of they had a short video of the perp taken by one of two girls that he murdered and a short sound clip of his voice. It's been five years since that happened but there's some really good podcasts about it, and I really hope it get's solved.

I'm fairly ignorant to cell phones/networks, but is it possible that AT&T owned all of the network equipment in the area? so even if it was another provider (like T-Mobile), AT&T would stil have access to the phones that connected since if it there is some level of sharing b/w the companies?

I have no idea if that is even a thing nor did I watch the video.

Garrelli 5000 said:

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I'm fairly ignorant to cell phones/networks, but is it possible that AT&T owned all of the network equipment in the area? so even if it was another provider (like T-Mobile), AT&T would stil have access to the phones that connected since if it there is some level of sharing b/w the companies?

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That's definitely not the case. AT&T doesn't have customer info for other carriers' towers. The only exception would be if T-Mobile for example didn't have local coverage, and T-Mobile's customers roamed on AT&T's towers.

But that's pretty rare, especially within Texas.

This is a haunting case, and like Mark Davis disappearing in Tyler one I think about periodically.

I just can't shake the feeling it's a professional hit.

akaggie05 said:

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There's a 4 hour deep dive video on YouTube that I got sucked into last week and the guy does talk about the hammer quite a bit. Seems to think it has a fairly unique white band around the handle, among other things.

Edit: I'm also curious about cell phone data that was requested. Apparently there was a subpoena issued to AT&T to get a list of phones that registered on their network within 5 miles of the church, in a hour or two window before/after the murder. The guy who made the video raised some very good questions about why apparently only AT&T was considered. What about Verizon, T-Mobile, etc.

I would at least have wanted to see the data from other carriers, and also ask if they could provide details on any handsets that were in a much larger surrounding area (say a 25 mile radius), powered down before the crime, then re- registered on the network some period of time afterward. This is a classic data mining problem that I'm not sure the Midlothian PD were equipped to handle.

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After seeing your post I decided to watch that YouTube video. I just finished it. I always like watching true crime stuff, this guy blew my mind with the sheer amount of time he spent researching everything, and the deep dives he did into so many random things that could be even tangentially related to the case. But I also think that he was quick to dismiss a lot of theories based on things like "I don't think a woman would go out for revenge in the pouring rain" and equally flimsy reasons. But otherwise he did a really thorough job. I'm going to watch his video about the Delphi murders next. I've read some about that case on Reddit so I'll be curious to see what he thinks about it.

Haven't seen the video On Delphi. Post the link with your thoughts after!

I just got done watching the Delphi one (working from home has it's perks!). It's pretty interesting and very thorough, but not quite as thorough as the almost 5 hour long Missy Bevers one. Side note- the guy is a bit weird but his videos are interesting for sure. Here are the links to both:

There's actually been some movement in the Delphi case over the last year or so that I'm sure isn't on that video.

Redstone said:

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This is a haunting case, and like Mark Davis disappearing in Tyler one I think about periodically.

I just can't shake the feeling it's a professional hit.

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A short, overweight, duck-footed assassin doesn't scream "professional hit". Although I suppose the tactical gear does.

A hired hit is just gonna shoot her. I think this was a stalker or jealous spouse. This was personal. Probably comes across all types of crazy at these gladiator camps, or people married to crazy. If it was a jealous spouse, it might not have even been a guy she was actually messing around with. Maybe some in person flirtation leading to suspicions, and some crazy wife or gf goes off the rails which would explain there not being a text or messaging trail. Or maybe some dude who she flirted with at a camp, took it the wrong way, got rejected, then loses it and comes back for her

DannyDuberstein said:

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A hired hit is just gonna shoot her. I think this was a stalker or jealous spouse. This was personal. Probably comes across all types of crazy at these gladiator camps, or people married to crazy. If it was a jealous spouse, it might not have even been a guy she was actually messing around with. Maybe some in person flirtation leading to suspicions, and some crazy wife or gf goes off the rails which would explain there not being a text or messaging trail

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This has always been my thought is. I think it is a personal jealousy of some sort...jealous spouse or stalker being the two that seem to fit the most.

Jimmy McNulty said:

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There's actually been some movement in the Delphi case over the last year or so that I'm sure isn't on that video.

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Yeah after the video ended another more recent YouTube video about it started and I ended up watching that too. It talked about the guy with the fake profile he used to catfish people, and a couple of other leads. They interviewed the local police chief and he wouldn't elaborate but he kept hinting that they are getting closer and would eventually be able to reveal everything.

There's a podcast called "Murder Sheet" that did a few updates this week. They've had several episodes over the past several months regarding the guy who was behind the fake profile and his father, of whom both are suspected.

It's crazy.