David Axelrod is still around?

I told you people that you have to flush, twice.

Vestal_Flame said:

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Ultimately though Canada like Europe will be brought kicking and screaming into the new world where they no longer receive unlimited military and economic largesse from America in exchange for nothing but loyalty that they no longer even attempt to pretend they possess

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I fear that you overestimate our leverage and underestimate the value of our traditional allies.

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What leverage? Canada is completely dependent on us for defense and they have no one to sell their O&G or cars to without us. The pipelines go South and not to the coast. No one is going to let them sell their industrial products. They are already in recession and their GDP is smaller than Texas now and falling. We haven't even played rough with them yet.

I don't think anyone is killed. Canada has a little brother complex and they need to show that they can stand up to big bad USA. He's done that. Now he will crawl back and ask for a deal in a few weeks.

aggie93 said:

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Vestal_Flame said:

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Ultimately though Canada like Europe will be brought kicking and screaming into the new world where they no longer receive unlimited military and economic largesse from America in exchange for nothing but loyalty that they no longer even attempt to pretend they possess

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I fear that you overestimate our leverage and underestimate the value of our traditional allies.

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What leverage? Canada is completely dependent on us for defense and they have no one to sell their O&G or cars to without us. The pipelines go South and not to the coast. No one is going to let them sell their industrial products. They are already in recession and their GDP is smaller than Texas now and falling. We haven't even played rough with them yet.

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Oh my.... you are right! I hadn't realized!

We can go from a trade and services deficit to a surplus with one simple move. Ban all Canadian oil imports. They can then export that oil to the rest of the world via pipelines to BC and then via tankers.

Why do I raise this? I think this tariff action will harm a lot of American companies because we export more goods and services to Canada than most people realize. Just think how "bad" the deficit would be if Keystone would have been built which I and many others on here think killing it was a massive screw up by Biden

Kansas Kid said:

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We can go from a trade and services deficit to a surplus with one simple move. Ban all Canadian oil imports. They can then export that oil to the rest of the world via pipelines to BC and then via tankers.

Why do I raise this? I think this tariff action will harm a lot of American companies because we export more goods and services to Canada than most people realize. Just think how "bad" the deficit would be if Keystone would have been built which I and many others on here think killing it was a massive screw up by Biden

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Canada has zero pipelines to BC and likely never will, the oil would have to go over some huge mountains. They have 1 pipeline between the West to the East, all the rest to to the US. They have one proposed NG pipeline in BC but it's just on paper.

We could cut off the flow from us to Ontario and make it $20/gallon gas. Eventually they could figure it out but they wouldn't have an economy left by that time.

infinity ag said:

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aggie93 said:

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Vestal_Flame said:

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Ultimately though Canada like Europe will be brought kicking and screaming into the new world where they no longer receive unlimited military and economic largesse from America in exchange for nothing but loyalty that they no longer even attempt to pretend they possess

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I fear that you overestimate our leverage and underestimate the value of our traditional allies.

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What leverage? Canada is completely dependent on us for defense and they have no one to sell their O&G or cars to without us. The pipelines go South and not to the coast. No one is going to let them sell their industrial products. They are already in recession and their GDP is smaller than Texas now and falling. We haven't even played rough with them yet.

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Oh my.... you are right! I hadn't realized!

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Yep. California is twice their GDP. Texas is leaving them in the dust. NY is larger. Florida will surpass them in the next few years. They are a shadow of what they once were and if AB/SK leave the rest will be 3rd world. They are even with Mexico now in GDP (though Mexico has 3x their population).

I'm about half-way through my third glass of wine, so I'm going to be completely honest about what I really think.

I fully expect to live to see a flight of Xi'An H-6Ks on their way to DC. Most of the short routes from China to DC pass over Canadian air space.

When it comes time to shoot those ChiComs out of the sky, I want our government to be on very friendly terms with Canada's government.

That's all.

I think that it is ****ing stupid to nitpick a $20B trade deficit with the neighbor who is guarding most of the routes into the United States from China and Russia.

Somebody brought up 1950 in this thread.

I was at the Brandenburg Gate, this month, explaining the first Cold War to my kids.

We're now in the second Cold War. It's time to be nice to our neighbors.

I've tried to make rational economic arguments about this thread, but the truth is that my real opinions are a LOT darker. If I'm China, and I plan to take Taiwan by amphibious assault, I need to kill not less than 200k Americans, Japanese, Philippinos, Australians, and South Koreans on the first day. I will probably target carrier battle groups with nuclear weapons, and I might take out some place like Guam with a nuke, as well.

I want Canada to be doing their damnedest to stop that killing. We're not doing ourselves any favors when we alienate the people who are between us and our enemies.

I wouldn't treat my beagle the way that Trump is treating Carney. Carney and the beagle are sleeping between me and the door. They should be treated with respect. The man who can't respect the sentry should sleep lightly.

If you start from the assumption that we are about to fight the ChiComs on the other side of the Pacific, your estimation of "reasonable foreign policy" changes in a hurry.

Trade is subordinate to the war that I fully believe to be coming.

aggie93 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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We can go from a trade and services deficit to a surplus with one simple move. Ban all Canadian oil imports. They can then export that oil to the rest of the world via pipelines to BC and then via tankers.

Why do I raise this? I think this tariff action will harm a lot of American companies because we export more goods and services to Canada than most people realize. Just think how "bad" the deficit would be if Keystone would have been built which I and many others on here think killing it was a massive screw up by Biden

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Canada has zero pipelines to BC and likely never will, the oil would have to go over some huge mountains. They have 1 pipeline between the West to the East, all the rest to to the US. They have one proposed NG pipeline in BC but it's just on paper.

We could cut off the flow from us to Ontario and make it $20/gallon gas. Eventually they could figure it out but they wouldn't have an economy left by that time.

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Try again. They have had one since 1953 which they have already expanded and there it is one in the works for 1mm bbls per day to increase capacity. Guess what happens to our refiners in the Upper Midwest if Canadian oil stops flowing. We don't have enough oil pipelines and local production to keep those refiners built to run Canadian Heavy running anywhere near capacity. Our countries are linked at the hip economically in many industries and a major trade war will hurt both of us substantially.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_Mountain_pipeline

PS. They also already have nat gas pipelines as well.

And, with respect to the guys who are comparing the GDP of Canada to the GDP of Texas, I say this.

Canada is a great nation.

Texas is an empire, wide and glorious.

Vestal_Flame said:

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I've tried to make rational economic arguments about this thread, but the truth is that my real opinions are a LOT darker. If I'm China, and I plan to take Taiwan by amphibious assault, I need to kill not less than 200k Americans, Japanese, Australians, and South Koreans on the first day. I will probably target carrier battle groups with nuclear weapons, and I might take out some place like Guam with a nuke, as well.

I want Canada to be doing their damnedest to stop that killing. We're not doing ourselves any favors when we alienate the people who are between us and our enemies.

I wouldn't treat my beagle the way that Trump is treating Carney. Carney and the beagle are sleeping between me and the door. They should be treated with respect. The man who can't respect the sentry should sleep lightly.

If you start from the assumption that we are about to fight the ChiComs on the other side of the Pacific, your estimation of "reasonable foreign policy" changes in a hurry.

Trade is subordinate to the war that I fully believe to be coming.

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Yes we get it, you love Commie Carney and want him to succeed in turning Canada into North Korea 2.0 at our doorstep

No. But I liked watching Stalin take 27M casualties while we took 400k.

To be clear, by casualties, I meant, dead.

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Ultimately though Canada like Europe will be brought kicking and screaming into the new world where they no longer receive unlimited military and economic largesse from America in exchange for nothing but loyalty that they no longer even attempt to pretend they possess

And while we can't do much about Europe becoming an IslamoMarxist hell hole allied with China, we absolutely aren't allowing Canada to go that route

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The amount of historical ignorance and incorrect analysis in this post is impressive.

But the reality is: Canada has been a fine ally and tremendous economic partner, and they still would be if not for the threats, insults, juvenile behavior, and hostile actions by Trump.

Canadians are uncertain how long the USA will remain in its current unstable and irrational condition. They know there is a substantial probability things will get far far worse down here before we eventually return to sanity and stability. So they are pursuing rational courses of action to hedge against that.

In war, ideological consistency with your allies is immaterial, as long as there is strategic alignment.

DeschutesAg said:

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Ultimately though Canada like Europe will be brought kicking and screaming into the new world where they no longer receive unlimited military and economic largesse from America in exchange for nothing but loyalty that they no longer even attempt to pretend they possess

And while we can't do much about Europe becoming an IslamoMarxist hell hole allied with China, we absolutely aren't allowing Canada to go that route

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The amount of historical ignorance and incorrect analysis in this post is impressive.

But the reality is: Canada has been a fine ally and tremendous economic partner, and they still would be if not for the threats, insults, juvenile behavior, and hostile actions by Trump.

Canadians are uncertain how long the USA will remain in its current unstable and irrational condition. They know there is a substantial probability things will get far far worse down here before we eventually return to sanity and stability. So they are pursuing rational courses of action to hedge against that.

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Sanity and Stability? You mean letting in millions of illegals to overthrow the citizens of your nation and install permanent t Leftist tyranny? Because both Biden and Carney pursued that strategy to the ruin of their countries.

But again, you support that and so you want us to make sure Carney stays in power and can bring Canada to that same "stability"

Leftism is destroying Canada and you are desperate for us to subsidize it and keep the cancer going until it kills the host

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you are desperate for us to subsidize it and keep the cancer going until it kills the host

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I suspect that he just wants to put maple syrup on his pancakes.

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Leftism is destroying Canada

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I was there for 10 days last month. It's about the same as it ever was.

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You mean letting in millions of illegals to overthrow the citizens of your nation and install permanent t Leftist tyranny

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It looks like there are less than a million people who have overstayed a Canadian visa or arrived without passing a checkpoint. It is going to be hard to establish permanent leftist tyranny on those numbers.

Vestal_Flame said:

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You mean letting in millions of illegals to overthrow the citizens of your nation and install permanent t Leftist tyranny

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It looks like there are less than a million people who have overstayed a Canadian visa or arrived without passing a checkpoint. It is going to be hard to establish permanent leftist tyranny on those numbers.

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No they just mass import them and call them "refugees"

That's something like a million people … since 1980. Again, it's hard to build permanent leftist tyranny on those numbers.

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. BTW, I absolutely think part of this is about driving a bigger wedge between AB/SK and Ontario/Quebec. AB/SK isn't going to be excited about losing their O&G revenue and killing their economy so Quebec can get French labels on imports.

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This idea deserves a separate thread.

Vestal_Flame said:

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I've tried to make rational economic arguments about this thread, but the truth is that my real opinions are a LOT darker. If I'm China, and I plan to take Taiwan by amphibious assault, I need to kill not less than 200k Americans, Japanese, Philippinos, Australians, and South Koreans on the first day. I will probably target carrier battle groups with nuclear weapons, and I might take out some place like Guam with a nuke, as well.

I want Canada to be doing their damnedest to stop that killing. We're not doing ourselves any favors when we alienate the people who are between us and our enemies.

I wouldn't treat my beagle the way that Trump is treating Carney. Carney and the beagle are sleeping between me and the door. They should be treated with respect. The man who can't respect the sentry should sleep lightly.

If you start from the assumption that we are about to fight the ChiComs on the other side of the Pacific, your estimation of "reasonable foreign policy" changes in a hurry.

Trade is subordinate to the war that I fully believe to be coming.

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What sort of nonsense is this?
If China opens with nuclear weapons the world will be done. Retaliatory strikes will end with full exchanges.

And Canada is a footnote, exactly how (and with what influence) will they have any leverage?

Vestal_Flame said:

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That's something like a million people … since 1980. Again, it's hard to build permanent leftist tyranny on those numbers.

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They've imported half a million in just the last 9 years. In a country where almost 3/4ths of your population lives in just 3 cities already loyal to leftist tyranny it's very easy to use those numbers to change the demographics of the provinces that are resisting you

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If China opens with nuclear weapons the world will be done. Retaliatory strikes will end with full exchanges.

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I tend to agree, but I might try it … as a tactical strike against a naval target at sea. The distinction between tactical and strategic use of nuclear weapons is a distinction that exists only in the mind of amateurs. I am an amateur. The danger lies in the fact that China's officer corps is completely staffed with amateurs whose most significant engagement was the use of armor against a crowd of civilians.

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They've imported half a million in just the last 9 years. In a country where almost 3/4ths of your population lives in just 3 cities already loyal to leftist tyranny it's very easy to use those numbers to change the demographics of the provinces that are resisting you

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You're assuming that these people are a lot better organized than I have observed them to be. You may be right, but I have honest doubts.

Mark Carney thinks he can win trade wars with press conferences and slogans, but he is using his citizens as collateral for domestic messaging. He clearly hates President Trump more than he loves Canada.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

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Mark Carney thinks he can win trade wars with press conferences and slogans, but he is using his citizens as collateral for domestic messaging. He clearly hates President Trump more than he loves Canada.

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Carney has a lot in common with the American left. TDS is a pandemic that clearly does not respect national borders.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

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Mark Carney thinks he can win trade wars with press conferences and slogans, but he is using his citizens as collateral for domestic messaging. He clearly hates President Trump more than he loves Canada.

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Just the opposite actually. His record for the past two decades has been that of a methodical, rational, objective, trained capitalist with extensive experience and understanding of economics and international capital markets.

Carney has been groomed to carry the America-hating globalists. Things were going swimmingly to take our Republic down until DJT busted the doors down.

A Marxist defending Carney really says it all, doesn't it?

Kansas Kid said:

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aggie93 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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We can go from a trade and services deficit to a surplus with one simple move. Ban all Canadian oil imports. They can then export that oil to the rest of the world via pipelines to BC and then via tankers.

Why do I raise this? I think this tariff action will harm a lot of American companies because we export more goods and services to Canada than most people realize. Just think how "bad" the deficit would be if Keystone would have been built which I and many others on here think killing it was a massive screw up by Biden

---

Canada has zero pipelines to BC and likely never will, the oil would have to go over some huge mountains. They have 1 pipeline between the West to the East, all the rest to to the US. They have one proposed NG pipeline in BC but it's just on paper.

We could cut off the flow from us to Ontario and make it $20/gallon gas. Eventually they could figure it out but they wouldn't have an economy left by that time.

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Try again. They have had one since 1953 which they have already expanded and there it is one in the works for 1mm bbls per day to increase capacity. Guess what happens to our refiners in the Upper Midwest if Canadian oil stops flowing. We don't have enough oil pipelines and local production to keep those refiners built to run Canadian Heavy running anywhere near capacity. Our countries are linked at the hip economically in many industries and a major trade war will hurt both of us substantially.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_Mountain_pipeline

PS. They also already have nat gas pipelines as well.

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The average Canadian has never looked at a map of their own country.

Line 9, which supplies nearly all of Ontario and Quebec with their oil, runs through the United States before re-entering Canada through Southern Ontario.

Years ago, the Canadians had an opportunity to… https://t.co/EaXsy1Lsvn pic.twitter.com/L25NrTL4jb

— Christian Heiens 🏛 (@ChristianHeiens) August 24, 2026

So what is your point other than your own map shows they have a pipeline to BC that you previously claimed doesn't exist? Yes, Enbridge runs through the US to their Eastern refineries. If those pipelines were shut down, their Eastern refineries can import oil via water along with moving Alberta oil via rail cars as well. It isn't as cost effective but it isn't a case of gasoline will go to US$20/gal.

Now, can you tell me how the Montana, Minnesota, and other Northern tier refineries that import oil from Canada will get all of their requirements met if Canada is no longer exporting to the US? Once again I will state, the Canadian will absolutely be hurt but so with the US.

ETA. If you think the US doesn't need Canadian imported oil, please explain to me why Trump has exempted the largest import from Canada, oil, from his tariffs.

Kansas Kid said:

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So what is your point other than your own map shows they have a pipeline to BC that you previously claimed doesn't exist? Yes, Enbridge runs through the US to their Eastern refineries. If those pipelines were shut down, their Eastern refineries can import oil via water along with moving Alberta oil via rail cars as well. It isn't as cost effective but it isn't a case of gasoline will go to US$20/gal.

Now, can you tell me how the Montana, Minnesota, and other Northern tier refineries that import oil from Canada will get all of their requirements met if Canada is no longer exporting to the US? Once again I will state, the Canadian will absolutely be hurt but so with the US.

ETA. If you think the US doesn't need Canadian imported oil, please explain to me why Trump has exempted the largest import from Canada, oil, from his tariffs.

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The point is Canada can hurt the US economy….but the US can turn off the Canadian economy

Canada is being a petulant child from a position of weakness all because the Canadian left refuses to be seen as "helping" Trump