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So, they named it the "Lightening II" as an inside joke?

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While I have no definitive answer, I will say that there have been several jet fighters with names such as Corsair II, Thunderbolt II, and now Lightning II that were derivatives of WWII fighter names.

GAC06 said:

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Not arguing the point about upgrades over the life of a platform but that's not even a picture of a night attack harrier. The "B" in AV-8B refers to an almost completely different plane than the AV-8A. The further developments were the "Night attack" and adding the APG-65 for the final variant

Also, "Phantom II" refers to it being the second Phantom after this one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_FH_Phantom

Much like how the F-35 is the Lightning II referring to both the P-38 and English Electric Lightning, not another development of the F-35.

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No argument with those points. I could not find images of the advertisements for "All Weather Attack" that used to run monthly in the Marine Corps Gazette in the 1990s. That picture was just 1st MAW using the advertising language on their own public affairs material.

fka ftc said:

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Russians probably pulled that plane out and put it back into service.

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Well, about 20 ms later, that MiG-29 was a big old fireball...so probably not.

But, look at the pilot. He's maybe 50 ft up and chute not fully deployed. He only had minor injuries though.

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Quote:

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So, they named it the "Lightening II" as an inside joke?

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While I have no definitive answer, I will say that there have been several jet fighters with names such as Corsair II, Thunderbolt II, and now Lightning II that were derivatives of WWII fighter names.

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Named for the P-38 Lightning of WWII fame.

Ulysses90 said:

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12542479/f35-crash-south-carolina-storms-bad-weather.html

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A F-35 jet could have crashed on Sunday due to poor weather in South Carolina, new audio suggests - as questions mount as to why the disastrous training exercise was allowed to proceed.

The F-35B Lightning II which the unnamed Marine pilot was flying is believed to be at risk of malfunctions if it flies in thunderstorms, according to a Forbes investigation in November.

Its sister jet, the F-35A, is more severely affected and cannot fly within 25 miles of lightning.

The issue lies within the F-35's OBIGGS (Onboard Inert Gas Generation) system, which pumps nitrogen-enriched air into its fuel tanks to inert them, preventing the aircraft from exploding if it is struck by lightning.

'F-35B and C variants have some of the same OBIGGS issues as the F-35A, but have been able to alleviate operational impacts,' said Chief Petty Officer Matthew Olay, spokesman for the F-35 Joint Program Office, in an email to Forbes last year.

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So, they named it the "Lightening II" as an inside joke? More like "STFA from Lightening."

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But questions are now being asked as to why it was allowed to fly, given the proximity to storms and the concerns about its sister planes.

The National Weather Service issued a 'special weather statement' for the Charleston region, warning of 55mph winds.

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Could it be that a command slated senior pilot said, "Weather-schmether, I'm the senior guy on deck in Charleston today and we're going to fly"? Sadly, that would not entirely surprise me.

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This guy.

Actually, the F-35 is still not yet at full rate production because of some things not signed off. And LM is losing a ton of money over that. The idea that LM likes it this way is simply untrue.

aTmAg said:

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Actually, the F-35 is still not yet at full rate production because of some things not signed off. And LM is losing a ton of money over that. The idea that LM likes it this way is simply untrue.

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Found the LM employee

Ulysses90 said:

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Industry never gives the government (taxpayer) a feature for free. If it is not explicitly included in the acquisition program baseline as a key performance parameter, key system attribute, or additional system attribute then it's not going to be in the spec for the deliverable.

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I'll beg to disagree here.

Scope creep is a VERY common phenomenon in the defense business...

There's been a joke about it since before I started my career in the 80s:

Q: What is an elephant?

A: A mouse built to government specs.

I've seen the push for more stuff for free from the DoD many times.

And if you're trying to win a contract you damn well better add the free stuff or you're one more step behind in the bidding.

aTmAg said:

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Actually, the F-35 is still not yet at full rate production because of some things not signed off. And LM is losing a ton of money over that. The idea that LM likes it this way is simply untrue.

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That's a factual statement in technical terms. There has been no formal FRP decision by the PEO. That means that it is ineligible for multi-year procurement delivery orders. Lockheed is not happy about that.

On the other hand, the F-35 has been at its peak production level as agreed to by both Lockheed Martin and the PEO for over two years. When/if the F-35 does get an FRP decision, production will continue at the same rate of 156 planes per year. Lockheed Martin is quite happy to have a production line cranking out $12.5B a year in products (plus repair parts!). The LRIP will probay continue indefinitely.

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/f-35-production-set-156-per-year-until-completion/

Ag with kids said:

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Ulysses90 said:

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Industry never gives the government (taxpayer) a feature for free. If it is not explicitly included in the acquisition program baseline as a key performance parameter, key system attribute, or additional system attribute then it's not going to be in the spec for the deliverable.

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I'll beg to disagree here.

Scope creep is a VERY common phenomenon in the defense business...

There's been a joke about it since before I started my career in the 80s:

Q: What is an elephant?

A: A mouse built to government specs.

I've seen the push for more stuff for free from the DoD many times.

And if you're trying to win a contract you damn well better add the free stuff or you're one more step behind in the bidding.

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So damn true. Especially on large projects, scope creep is rampant. Either manage it and choose your battles or expect to be out of the running on the next bid.

I heard the hurdle to going FRP is the gov wants to pull the simulator part of the initial contract more in house, and LMT isn't wanting to sign off on that change...so stay in LRIP for the foreseeable future

mosdefn14 said:

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I heard the hurdle to going FRP is the gov wants to pull the simulator part of the initial contract more in house, and LMT isn't wanting to sign off on that change...so stay in LRIP for the foreseeable future

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Translation please? TIA.

That's not how source selection and the contract award process works. Unless the government states in the request for proposal in Section L (specifications) and Section M (evaluation criteria) exactly what will be used for awarding points in a "best value trade-off" competition, there are no points for additional "free" features.

In a cost reimbursable contract (such as JSF), only the features that are included in the government's work breakdown structure (WBS) can be invoiced for payment and those costs for elements in the WBS must be documented according to "cost accounting standards" that are audited by the Defense Contracts Management Agency (DCMA).

If a contractor wanted to put a giant gold winged victory hood ornament on a JSF because he knew that the chair of the source selection committee would love it, they could not invoice for it because it's not in the WBS and it would not pass audit as a G&A.

The source selection committee's rationale for their selection goes through legal review before the award is announced. If the rationale were to say, "lots of cool features that we forgot to list in Section L", the lawyers are going to recommend further evaluation and a better rationale based on Sections L&M because the award would be protested by the losing bidders.

Mission creep is absolutely real, but it's the government that creeps the mission by adding KPPs, KSAs, and ASAs to the spec, not industry throwing in features that the government didn't ask for.

Program Managers trade between cost, schedule, and performance. Getting faster delivery schedule almost always means higher price and lower performance (such as vulnerability to lightning). Conversely, better performance usually means higher cost and slipping the delivery schedule to the right.

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"We got a pilot in the house, and I guess he landed in my backyard, and we're trying to see if we could get an ambulance to the house, please," the resident said.

The pilot, who said he was 47, reported feeling "OK" after falling what he estimated was 2,000 feet. Only his back hurt, he said. The resident said the pilot looked fine.

"Ma'am, a military jet crashed. I'm the pilot. We need to get rescue rolling," the pilot said. "I'm not sure where the airplane is. It would have crash landed somewhere. I ejected."

The Marines said features that erase a jet's secure communications in case of an ejection a feature designed to protect both the pilot's location and the plane's classified systems may also have complicated efforts to find it.

"Normally, aircraft are tracked via radar and transponder codes," the Marines said. "Upon pilot ejection, the aircraft is designed to erase (or 'zeroize') all secure communication ."

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I understand all that, I'm coming from the contractor's side where the mission creep comes into play and whether the project gets stopped or slowed down for significant changes. Most all contractors determine whether they are going to change order or not. And that will follow you around. Some govt workers are very fair and understand, others are indifferent, and then there are plenty who don't care or understand.

I'm also talking to fixed price predominantly, which is likely more uncommon in these types of builds, but there are definitely considerations made in that area.

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Quote:

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So, they named it the "Lightening II" as an inside joke?

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While I have no definitive answer, I will say that there have been several jet fighters with names such as Corsair II, Thunderbolt II, and now Lightning II that were derivatives of WWII fighter names.

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seeing as how Lockheed manufactured the original P-38 Lightning and is manufacturing this one, I don't think there is some inside joke.

it's just honoring their legacy

I believe I stated that it is likely the Lightning II was named after its grandfather aircraft from WWII. And named a couple of other WWII aircraft that have had their names re-used for earlier gen jet aircraft.

So I agree with your assessment about honoring the legacy.

LMCane said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Quote:

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So, they named it the "Lightening II" as an inside joke?

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While I have no definitive answer, I will say that there have been several jet fighters with names such as Corsair II, Thunderbolt II, and now Lightning II that were derivatives of WWII fighter names.

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seeing as how Lockheed manufactured the original P-38 Lightning and is manufacturing this one, I don't think there is some inside joke.

it's just honoring their legacy

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Admiral Yamamoto disliked this post!!!!!

JB!98 said:

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LMCane said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Quote:

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So, they named it the "Lightening II" as an inside joke?

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While I have no definitive answer, I will say that there have been several jet fighters with names such as Corsair II, Thunderbolt II, and now Lightning II that were derivatives of WWII fighter names.

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seeing as how Lockheed manufactured the original P-38 Lightning and is manufacturing this one, I don't think there is some inside joke.

it's just honoring their legacy

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Admiral Yamamoto disliked this post!!!!!

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I went to high school with his grandson...who is a LTC in the US Army National Guard.

Ulysses90 said:

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JB!98 said:

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LMCane said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Quote:

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So, they named it the "Lightening II" as an inside joke?

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While I have no definitive answer, I will say that there have been several jet fighters with names such as Corsair II, Thunderbolt II, and now Lightning II that were derivatives of WWII fighter names.

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seeing as how Lockheed manufactured the original P-38 Lightning and is manufacturing this one, I don't think there is some inside joke.

it's just honoring their legacy

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Admiral Yamamoto disliked this post!!!!!

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I went to high school with his grandson...who is a LTC in the US Army National Guard.

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That is damn interesting. I wonder what the story behind it is?

JB!98 said:

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Ulysses90 said:

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JB!98 said:

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LMCane said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Quote:

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So, they named it the "Lightening II" as an inside joke?

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While I have no definitive answer, I will say that there have been several jet fighters with names such as Corsair II, Thunderbolt II, and now Lightning II that were derivatives of WWII fighter names.

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seeing as how Lockheed manufactured the original P-38 Lightning and is manufacturing this one, I don't think there is some inside joke.

it's just honoring their legacy

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Admiral Yamamoto disliked this post!!!!!

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I went to high school with his grandson...who is a LTC in the US Army National Guard.

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That is damn interesting. I wonder what the story behind it is?

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In a nutshell, Tom's father was in the US occupation force and was assigned to guard Yamamoto's family. He fell in love with and married the Admiral's youngest daughter and brought he to the US. There's more than a bit of family resemblance, wouldn't you say?

Ulysses90 said:

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JB!98 said:

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Ulysses90 said:

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JB!98 said:

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LMCane said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Quote:

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So, they named it the "Lightening II" as an inside joke?

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While I have no definitive answer, I will say that there have been several jet fighters with names such as Corsair II, Thunderbolt II, and now Lightning II that were derivatives of WWII fighter names.

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seeing as how Lockheed manufactured the original P-38 Lightning and is manufacturing this one, I don't think there is some inside joke.

it's just honoring their legacy

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Admiral Yamamoto disliked this post!!!!!

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I went to high school with his grandson...who is a LTC in the US Army National Guard.

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That is damn interesting. I wonder what the story behind it is?

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In a nutshell, Tom's father was in the US occupation force and was assigned to guard Yamamoto's family. He fell in love with and married the Admiral's youngest daughter and brought he to the US. There's more than a bit of family resemblance, wouldn't you say?

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Wow. That's really cool. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks! Great story

Late to the party, but I can contribute:

The most scatter-brained 911 operator of all time.

Lol at this.

911 call reminds me of the Phil Hendrie show.

Lol if this is real.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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The most scatter-brained 911 operator of all time.

Lol at this.

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Why does the 911 caller sound mexican?

Ag with kids said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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The most scatter-brained 911 operator of all time.

Lol at this.

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Why does the 911 caller sound mexican?

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Maybe he is Mexican.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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The most scatter-brained 911 operator of all time.

Lol at this.

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So funny. She's reading from a script that doesn't exactly fit a fighter pilot ejecting at 2000 ft.

Mary Bailey said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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The most scatter-brained 911 operator of all time.

Lol at this.

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Why does the 911 caller sound mexican?

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Maybe he is Mexican.

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Could be...

Just not my idea of the average rural South Carolinian...

I was expecting the callers first language to be hillbilly...

Mary Bailey said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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The most scatter-brained 911 operator of all time.

Lol at this.

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So funny. She's reading from a script that doesn't exactly fit a fighter pilot ejecting at 2000 ft.

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911: How far did he fall?

Pilot: 2000 ft

911 (to herself): WTF????

Quick question...has a debris field been located?

Confirmation parts found (if any) were F-35?

Gone pretty quiet on this front. Surprised nothing has leaked.