PatAg said:

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This show is so good so far.

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I agree and we probably don't say it enough, and admittedly I was a couple Labor Day weekend beers in last night…

But I'm not completely sure I followed that ending. Zoe is definitely the manhunter? And Hal gathered that by… vibes? She straight up told John Stewart and then faked her own death to set up an extremely complex trap that ultimately had very little chance of success? Even if John and Hal bought that the guy at the factory was the manhunter, how long could that ruse have possibly lasted?

bobinator said:

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PatAg said:

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This show is so good so far.

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I agree and we probably don't say it enough, and admittedly I was a couple Labor Day weekend beers in last night…

But I'm not completely sure I followed that ending. Zoe is definitely the manhunter? And Hal gathered that by… vibes? She straight up told John Stewart and then faked her own death to set up an extremely complex trap that ultimately had very little chance of success? Even if John and Hal bought that the guy at the factory was the manhunter, how long could that ruse have possibly lasted?

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If nothing else, Zoe is almost undoubtedly still alive. Her husband has insane technology that neutralized the GL ring, which stopped the cow processing lasers. I imagine there are some type of defensive measures that can keep her alive.

I will say that her "I saved him" line was a little too obvious and on the nose. She had to know that would key him off. Could be a misdirection, as well.

That's sort of what I'm getting at. She wasn't trying to be coy about it, she straight up told him.

Wouldn't she just fake her death and just change to someone new?

nevermind, I'm too dumb for the spoiler tags today apparently

bobinator said:

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PatAg said:

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This show is so good so far.

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I agree and we probably don't say it enough, and admittedly I was a couple Labor Day weekend beers in last night…

But I'm not completely sure I followed that ending. Zoe is definitely the manhunter? And Hal gathered that by… vibes? She straight up told John Stewart and then faked her own death to set up an extremely complex trap that ultimately had very little chance of success? Even if John and Hal bought that the guy at the factory was the manhunter, how long could that ruse have possibly lasted?

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In that convo in the car, they talked about how manhunters will seek power and to manipulate/neutralize threats to that power. Along with other things, is what is leading them to believe she is the manhunter.

Whether she ends up being it, who knows.

Macon did say he met her at the hospital, and then separately said his benefactor cured him, or something to that effect.
I like that its not completely clear

This is sort of my question, is it supposed to be clear or not? Maybe I need to do a rewatch tonight.

Average Joe said:

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bobinator said:

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PatAg said:

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This show is so good so far.

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I agree and we probably don't say it enough, and admittedly I was a couple Labor Day weekend beers in last night…

But I'm not completely sure I followed that ending. Zoe is definitely the manhunter? And Hal gathered that by… vibes? She straight up told John Stewart and then faked her own death to set up an extremely complex trap that ultimately had very little chance of success? Even if John and Hal bought that the guy at the factory was the manhunter, how long could that ruse have possibly lasted?

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If nothing else, Zoe is almost undoubtedly still alive. Her husband has insane technology that neutralized the GL ring, which stopped the cow processing lasers. I imagine there are some type of defensive measures that can keep her alive.

I will say that her "I saved him" line was a little too obvious and on the nose. She had to know that would key him off. Could be a misdirection, as well.

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Because I don't want it to be so obviously her (as we've all guessed from the beginning), I kind of hope what she meant she "saved" her husband by making a deal with the manhunter. Not directly that she saved him because she's the manhunter.

Oooh... that actually makes sense.

There's definitely something weird going on with that character considering it's the only guardian we've seen. I also don't get why she has to use his parents as a go between. She couldn't give John a burner?

Dekker_Lentz said:

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I enjoyed this episode.

This series really hums when it is John and Hal interacting with each other. And Ulrich Thomson plays righteous evil better than anyone.

I'll eat a little crow that perhaps the earlier political points were necessary for the story. I still think it could have been handled/written better, but the mystery of the show is still great and Aaron and Kyle's chemistry is off the charts.

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It really is. They look like they have known each other or worked with each other for years.

I can't even think of a reference to John's race in ep 2.

And to each their own, but it totally tracks that characters of different backgrounds would have different opinions on things like race. And while a few lines in ep 3 were a little heavy handed there were other moments that showed some interesting perspective, like the Guardian not understanding the concept of race in human society.

I get that if you're locked into comic-book driven characterizations of Hal and John, the plot so far can really be upsetting. Suggesting one would even consider killing the other flies in the face of everything the comics are about other than times where one of them is possessed or an evil clone or whatever.

But DC really needs a show like this and a story line like The Batman that are set in a real world and have grounded feelings to them. That's why Superman got a pretty meh reaction last year. I really liked it in the theater, and I've watched most of the GL parts many times, but it was very safe and predictable:

The plot of: Lex Luthor kidnaps Superman's dog and makes a clone of Superman could have been the plot from a Superfriends episode in the 70s. More mature plots please.

PatAg said:

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YouBet said:

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Been busy and haven't watched this show since the pilot came out. Caught up on E2 and E3 tonight.

Gunn has totally lost me at this point. He won't survive his own DC reboot. I was so pumped about this show and all I got with these two episodes was racial, whiny b.s. It's just exhausting at this point and ruins the show.

I love Pierre in this role and hope we see him elsewhere. But the story around him is total crap. Moving on. Looking forward to the Reevesverse because the Gunn version sucks.

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You're entitled to your own opinion, but this is doing very well for HBO.

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Well, that's totally fine if it's doing well for HBO. But, yes, IMO it's fatiguing.

I really disliked new Superman because it way over the top comic book mode ridiculous and agree this feels so much better in a more grounded setting.

CharleyKerfeld said:

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I get that if you're locked into comic-book driven characterizations of Hal and John, the plot so far can really be upsetting. Suggesting one would even consider killing the other flies in the face of everything the comics are about other than times where one of them is possessed or an evil clone or whatever.

But DC really needs a show like this and a story line like The Batman that are set in a real world and have grounded feelings to them. That's why Superman got a pretty meh reaction last year. I really liked it in the theater, and I've watched most of the GL parts many times, but it was very safe and predictable:

The plot of: Lex Luthor kidnaps Superman's dog and makes a clone of Superman could have been the plot from a Superfriends episode in the 70s. More mature plots please.

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The counter to that is that they're making comic book movies and shows that kids can't watch. Other than the Superman movie Gunn's DCU is dark, depressing, and has orgies, male organs (damn filters), and a lot of the F word. Great for adults (I guess, if you like male nudity), not so great for the audience that superheroes are generally made for....kids.

**** James Gunn. He's done more damage to DC than Snyder ever did.

And the Lanterns weekly audience is a big dropoff from the House of the Dragons Sunday viewership, (and the audience % outside of the U.S. is small), but HBO is likely fine with it and just killing time until they can fire up the new Harry Potter show in December and pull in monster ratings with that.

The Lanterns audience has held steady or grown each week. Even after the backlash of episode 3, episode 4 held steady.

Considering it's a lot more niche and didn't have the built in base of House of Dragons, that's not bad.

This show has a lot of potential to grow. It's a good story.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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CharleyKerfeld said:

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I get that if you're locked into comic-book driven characterizations of Hal and John, the plot so far can really be upsetting. Suggesting one would even consider killing the other flies in the face of everything the comics are about other than times where one of them is possessed or an evil clone or whatever.

But DC really needs a show like this and a story line like The Batman that are set in a real world and have grounded feelings to them. That's why Superman got a pretty meh reaction last year. I really liked it in the theater, and I've watched most of the GL parts many times, but it was very safe and predictable:

The plot of: Lex Luthor kidnaps Superman's dog and makes a clone of Superman could have been the plot from a Superfriends episode in the 70s. More mature plots please.

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The counter to that is that they're making comic book movies and shows that kids can't watch. Other than the Superman movie Gunn's DCU is dark, depressing, and has orgies, male organs (damn filters), and a lot of the F word. Great for adults (I guess, if you like male nudity), not so great for the audience that superheroes are generally made for....kids.

**** James Gunn. He's done more damage to DC than Snyder ever did.

And the Lanterns weekly audience is a big dropoff from the House of the Dragons Sunday viewership, (and the audience % outside of the U.S. is small), but HBO is likely fine with it and just killing time until they can fire up the new Harry Potter show in December and pull in monster ratings with that.

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What makes you think kids aren't watching this?

CharleyKerfeld said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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CharleyKerfeld said:

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I get that if you're locked into comic-book driven characterizations of Hal and John, the plot so far can really be upsetting. Suggesting one would even consider killing the other flies in the face of everything the comics are about other than times where one of them is possessed or an evil clone or whatever.

But DC really needs a show like this and a story line like The Batman that are set in a real world and have grounded feelings to them. That's why Superman got a pretty meh reaction last year. I really liked it in the theater, and I've watched most of the GL parts many times, but it was very safe and predictable:

The plot of: Lex Luthor kidnaps Superman's dog and makes a clone of Superman could have been the plot from a Superfriends episode in the 70s. More mature plots please.

---

The counter to that is that they're making comic book movies and shows that kids can't watch. Other than the Superman movie Gunn's DCU is dark, depressing, and has orgies, male organs (damn filters), and a lot of the F word. Great for adults (I guess, if you like male nudity), not so great for the audience that superheroes are generally made for....kids.

**** James Gunn. He's done more damage to DC than Snyder ever did.

And the Lanterns weekly audience is a big dropoff from the House of the Dragons Sunday viewership, (and the audience % outside of the U.S. is small), but HBO is likely fine with it and just killing time until they can fire up the new Harry Potter show in December and pull in monster ratings with that.

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What makes you think kids aren't watching this?

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You're right, lol, there could be some 11 year olds out there who're watching and will forever have the images etched into their brain of Peacemaker in an orgy and John Stewart screwing a gross old lady then sketching her naked husband. Thank God James Gunn is creating great hero role models out of these kid's comic book characters.

Average Joe said:

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YouBet said:

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PatAg said:

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YouBet said:

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Been busy and haven't watched this show since the pilot came out. Caught up on E2 and E3 tonight.

Gunn has totally lost me at this point. He won't survive his own DC reboot. I was so pumped about this show and all I got with these two episodes was racial, whiny b.s. It's just exhausting at this point and ruins the show.

I love Pierre in this role and hope we see him elsewhere. But the story around him is total crap. Moving on. Looking forward to the Reevesverse because the Gunn version sucks.

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You're entitled to your own opinion, but this is doing very well for HBO.

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Well, that's totally fine if it's doing well for HBO. But, yes, IMO it's fatiguing.

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One out of four episodes mentioned race in a 2 minute scene and we continue to hear non-stop complaints about it. Why don't y'all just stop watching if you can't handle hearing that racism exists.

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Because it's fatiguing. They won't shut up about it even when it's not real or relevant - we had a laughably absurd comment by mom that aliens don't even recognize the black plight from space. LOL!!!

And I did stop watching. See my post above.

Average Joe said:

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YouBet said:

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Average Joe said:

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YouBet said:

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PatAg said:

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YouBet said:

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Been busy and haven't watched this show since the pilot came out. Caught up on E2 and E3 tonight.

Gunn has totally lost me at this point. He won't survive his own DC reboot. I was so pumped about this show and all I got with these two episodes was racial, whiny b.s. It's just exhausting at this point and ruins the show.

I love Pierre in this role and hope we see him elsewhere. But the story around him is total crap. Moving on. Looking forward to the Reevesverse because the Gunn version sucks.

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You're entitled to your own opinion, but this is doing very well for HBO.

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Well, that's totally fine if it's doing well for HBO. But, yes, IMO it's fatiguing.

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One out of four episodes mentioned race in a 2 minute scene and we continue to hear non-stop complaints about it. Why don't y'all just stop watching if you can't handle hearing that racism exists.

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Because it's fatiguing. They won't shut up about it even when it's not real or relevant - we had a laughably absurd comment by mom that aliens don't even recognize the black plight from space. LOL!!!

And I did stop watching. See my post above.

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That message is almost straight from the comics. Except the original comment came from John Stewart himself.

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And it's still stupid and absurd. And that actually makes it worse if he said it in comics because that means he said it in more modern era.

They can make these stories without injecting race wars into everything. It's very easy to do.

I wanted to watch a show about the Green Lanterns solving / fighting an alien predicament. Instead, we got that overlaid with the stereotypical, sitcom dumb and subtlety racist white guy bitter about having to train the smarter and physically superior black man. Hal's Midwest Huxtables comment? GTFO of here. lol.

Again, I love Pierre in the role so if Gunn doesn't get fired, which seems ever more likely at this point, we get to see him as GL in a different setting.