CharleyKerfeld said:

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To clarify my comments last night, I have zero problem with the storyline of John's dad being chosen and them training him from one day be chosen.

It would be like being told your baby would someday be the first Black president or the first Hispanic astronaut or anything else.

Just the heavy-handed way they went about it was a turn off. Being upset that the Guardians who rule the universe don't know about the plight of Black people. Telling him he's going to be a superhero while his 2 older brothers just have to stand there feeling like crap, etc.

Did anyone else pick up the fact that the Guardian was saying that they had noticed that humans (plural) had bad reactions to the choosing process, which would imply that Hal Jordan also wasn't their second choice?

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I did pick up on the general humans reacting poorly but wasn't sure about Hal. I think Hal was truly unique among humans because the humans reacting poorly was AFTER Hal had the ring and they were looking for his replacement

About the brothers, Van Lathan said this was very common in black families where one of the siblings is the athlete. He said some siblings are very supportive because that one athlete could elevate the family out of poverty. Others react poorly obviously. It was an interesting insight and I probably am not fully getting his thoughts on the matter on the page

The show being heavy-handed was just a matter of time considering its Lindelof (hence my earlier posts on him). He created and wrote The Watchmen after all, and since that heavy-handed approach to race garnered him a bunch of awards he's just going back to the same well. That aspect of the show was expected and he's not disappointing, so no point in harping on it further.

It is good to know he's actually explaining some questions and odd moments from earlier episodes, though. That's of more concern to me.

The timeline on this was pretty fuzzy, but the more I think about it the more I think you're right.

It kind of made it sound like he was considered before Hal Jordan, would make more sense why he shot the TV when he saw him on there, kind of a "it could have been me" deal. But then by the time the guardian visited the mom, the mom knew about Sinestro so obviously Hal has been around a while and John wasn't much older.

I am just grateful we got the inevitable prestige tv series grind to a halt flashback bottle episode was episode 3 and not episode 6 or 7

I agree on the timing of the flashback character flushing out episode being earlier in the season instead of the third to last episode like many series do. I think the inspiration of True Detective and their pacing has helped in that regard

CharleyKerfeld said:

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Did anyone else pick up the fact that the Guardian was saying that they had noticed that humans (plural) had bad reactions to the choosing process, which would imply that Hal Jordan also wasn't their second choice?

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I did, but I initially took it to mean the John Sr and his wife.

Max Power said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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They even went so far as to have Hal to call John's parents the Huxtables to their faces, I mean come on. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but it felt like the show runners were telling me, and plenty of others, this show isn't for you.

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I think you're being overly sensitive. Hal Jordan isn't speaking for you or for the audience, he's speaking as a superhuman annoyed with his bosses that he's having to train a replacement for himself. For the first two episodes again and again we see him try to get under John's skin, why would the first time they met be any different.

The show is heavy handed, but it's a mystery box show involving alien murders, I don't think it's exactly intended as a nuanced discussion on racism or parenting. It is very similar to Watchmen, trying to just fairly quickly set the stakes for the various people and parties involved with the plot.

I also think the main thing they're wanting to explore later with Hal and John is what kind of human is a human without fear, and whether a fearless human is even possible. So a lot of this episode was just laying that groundwork with John.

Agreed with other that parts of this were a little heavy handed with the messaging.

That said, I really enjoyed the ep and origin on John. On the postshow one of the writers talked about how he's had a few slightly different backstories and they felt he deserved an origin story, and as a whole I thought that was really interesting (especially the interview and John's mission).

One question for those who know the comic characters better, we've covered how there's only one Lantern per sector at a time but both John and Hal have coexisted in the comics (and it looks like we're also getting Guy Gartner at some point which may be a deviation). How is that explained in Marvel canon?

Its definitely the first real 'flaw' so far in the show. More talented writers could have gotten the same point across better, but the overall message is still good knowledge within the context of the shows story.

It really makes you wonder if John is just all talk about not holding a grudge against Hal, or his parents really did successfully raise a robot

PatAg said:

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Its definitely the first real 'flaw' so far in the show. More talented writers could have gotten the same point across better, but the overall message is still good knowledge within the context of the shows story.

It really makes you wonder if John is just all talk about not holding a grudge against Hal, or his parents really did successfully raise a robot

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Both I think. He clearly holds a grudge and thinks Hal is worthless. But he knows how to follow orders, which seems really to be the Guardians main issue and want in a GL.

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or his parents really did successfully raise a robot

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My guess is actually the other way. I think this episode was more about showing that underneath his "robot-ness" there's layers of emotion and humanity involved. "You can't really love without fear" seemed to me to be the biggest point of the episode. Fear of failure, fear of losing your loved ones, etc. John isn't afraid to be the green lantern, but he does have some things he fears inside that guide him that were built on the fears his parents had.

CharleyKerfeld said:

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fig96 said:

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Agreed with other that parts of this were a little heavy handed with the messaging.

That said, I really enjoyed the ep and origin on John. On the postshow one of the writers talked about how he's had a few slightly different backstories and they felt he deserved an origin story, and as a whole I thought that was really interesting (especially the interview and John's mission).

One question for those who know the comic characters better, we've covered how there's only one Lantern per sector at a time but both John and Hal have coexisted in the comics (and it looks like we're also getting Guy Gartner at some point which may be a deviation). How is that explained in Marvel canon?

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DC, not Marvel

They give a few reasons in the comics - one being that humans have uniquely high willpower and creative thinking, making them good candidates for the ring. Another being that the sectors they are assigned to are massive, so backups do exist, and a third being that crap keeps happening on Earth once the superheroes start showing up in droves, so they need more than 1.

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That's what I get for posting before coffee.

And gotcha, thanks. I did find the Guardians not really understanding how humans work to be an interesting perspective.

Mathguy64 said:

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PatAg said:

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Its definitely the first real 'flaw' so far in the show. More talented writers could have gotten the same point across better, but the overall message is still good knowledge within the context of the shows story.

It really makes you wonder if John is just all talk about not holding a grudge against Hal, or his parents really did successfully raise a robot

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Both I think. He clearly holds a grudge and thinks Hal is worthless. But he knows how to follow orders, which seems really to be the Guardians main issue and want in a GL.

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In Episode 1 John does tell the sheriff he actually respects Hal because Hal is fearless. I think he was being honest when he said that.

Do we have any idea how long he's been training with Hal yet? Maybe there's been clues but I couldn't figure out how much time has supposedly passed from the end of this episode to where things "currently" (in 2016) are.

Because I actually don't think he respects Hal at all, but that's the answer he's expected to give.

"Yes Sir."

"See you say Sir but I think you really mean something else."

John respects the idea of fearless. Its probably all he respects. He respects that in Hal, but he has no respect for Hal himself.

I sort of wonder if that's where this is heading. That Hal isn't actually fearless and discovering that will lead John to actually respect him. Question is what will Hal be afraid of? Irrelevance?

In ep 1 they mention it's been around two months since they started training, so "real time" 2016 we're no more than a few weeks past that.

I'd assume the end of this ep is no more than a few weeks or at most a couple months before the start of John's training.

It will be interesting to see how they handle the idea of "fear". I would argue most anger, outside of righteous anger, is based in some form of fear.

Hal's outburst at John demonstrates a "fear" of losing the Ring to someone else. Is it ultimately not the idea of no fear but moreso the idea of not letting fear control your actions?

I would consider a complete lack of fear to be a horrible trait.

As for the show writer stating John has no origin story in the comics thats absolutely not true. You can just google it and see he's wrong. Thats just an excuse for the show to rewrite his origin to fit the plot.

And yes, you can respect certain aspects of a person without fully respecting or "liking" them. There are people in life who are a******* but I'll at least respect the fact they admit they're a*******, as opposed to people who are a******* but fake being nice to your face.

John liking Hal and respecting Hal are two different things. Disliking someone doesn't mean you don't respect them. Don't mix emotions up with logic.

I'd probably go a slightly different direction and say that a complete absence of fear is impossible for a human. But yeah they've hammered this fearless thing so much that I think that it's the primary emotional crux of the plot that they're going to explore. Are John and Hal actually fearless? Is that even good? Do the guardians understand why fear is important? etc. etc.

In the comic books fear is a crucial plot point for many of the GL stories, for example Sinestro's eventual group that he forms (Sinestro Corp) draws their power by instilling fear in others.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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As for the show writer stating John has no origin story in the comics thats absolutely not true. You can just google it and see he's wrong. Thats just an excuse for the show to rewrite his origin to fit the plot.

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I did and there doesn't seem to be much other than vague references to his past?

Him being preselected as a child to be a Lantern is certainly new, but other than a backstory that's shifted a bit from architect to Marine (and that's from the comics) I didn't see much other detail.

I have a question about the "selected as a lantern" thing. Is there anything at all like this in the comics?

Because this show talks about being chosen by the ring, but they're also choosing a replacement? How exactly is that supposed to work if the ring chooses someone else? (Which is kind of my theory on where this is ultimately headed)

bobinator said:

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I have a question about the "selected as a lantern" thing. Is there anything at all like this in the comics?

Because this show talks about being chosen by the ring, but they're also choosing a replacement? How exactly is that supposed to work if the ring chooses someone else? (Which is kind of my theory on where this is ultimately headed)

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My thought is the Guardians think the ring would likelly present itself to John given it did to his father. And if raised ''correctly " it would select him, so they are attempting to train him to have him ready to hit the ground running.
Could set up 2 interesting scenarios. How does.John react if the ring doesn't choose him? Is this how Guy gets the ring?

Is this guardian actually setting up some power move and has ulterior motives?

bobinator said:

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I have a question about the "selected as a lantern" thing. Is there anything at all like this in the comics?

Because this show talks about being chosen by the ring, but they're also choosing a replacement? How exactly is that supposed to work if the ring chooses someone else? (Which is kind of my theory on where this is ultimately headed)

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Laura Linney intimated that they were trying a different tactic seeing as how the ring chose Sinestro and then he killed one of them.

In the comics, the Guardians very rarely select someone, usually if there is some huge catastrophe going on. I think Kyle Rayner gets his ring without it actually choosing him. In the comics, the Guardians also have complete control over the rings in that they can freeze the Lantern in place from millions of miles away or take it off their finger over the same distance.

If any of that lore is true in the show, than how Sinestro was able to kill a Guardian must be one heck of a story. I have read a lot of GL, and he never does that in the comics.

On a couple of different occasions, they bench Hal Jordan (and activate Stewart), almost always because Hal doesn't want to give up spending most/all of his time on Earth. I know it happens in an arc where Green Arrow and he team up and GA convinces him that he can do the most good on Earth solving smaller problems.

fig96 said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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As for the show writer stating John has no origin story in the comics thats absolutely not true. You can just google it and see he's wrong. Thats just an excuse for the show to rewrite his origin to fit the plot.

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I did and there doesn't seem to be much other than vague references to his past?

Him being preselected as a child to be a Lantern is certainly new, but other than a backstory that's shifted a bit from architect to Marine (and that's from the comics) I didn't see much other detail.

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Well, ok, I don't believe the comics are go into details of his childhood, do in that regard he ain't wrong. But most comic books don't give a very detailed backstory. The depth of his backstory in this show is unusual yes, except for well fleshed out popular heroes like Bruce Wayne.

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My thought is the Guardians think the ring would likelly present itself to John given it did to his father.

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This is something that everyone seems to not be sure about. Did the show actually confirm if the ring tried to select his father or was that the guardians trying to select him as a potential replacement for Hal Jordan after the ring chose Jordan?