***** The Lord of the Rings: Official Thread *****

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Brian Earl Spilner
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Orome said:

Scotland will have some great scenery to choose from!


I have no doubt, but it does not look like New Zealand.

It just won't be the same. NZ is literally Middle Earth to me. (Still dying to visit; had plans to go March of this year, which became March 2021, which is now tbd.)
redline248
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you know, I love the look of the movies and all that, too...but this isn't a big deal. So much stuff is going to be CG rendered, anyway. Also, the look of the world in the 2nd age is waaaaaaaaaaay different than that of the 3rd.
dave94
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Someone made a great point that Tolkien wrote Middle Earth as England so it will be fine. Like others have said, in the CGI age I'm not worried.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Orome said:

Scotland will have some great scenery to choose from!


I have no doubt, but it does not look like New Zealand.

It just won't be the same. NZ is literally Middle Earth to me. (Still dying to visit; had plans to go March of this year, which became March 2021, which is now tbd.)
This kind of leads me back to the biggest potential pitfall of this production: people's nostalgia for Jacksons LOTR and the expectation that every tale in Middle-earth is like that. This production should feel like a totally different thing; as I said a number of pages back the Second Age is a much more Machiavellian setting, in many respects much more like GOT.

But if it does end up like GOT, many people who have never read LOTR, let alone The Silmarillion and the other incomplete posthumously published works, will balk at this and claim it is inauthentic, even if is actually in line with what Tolkien wrote of this setting. The vast majority of what he wrote is not epic quests and the meek prevailing against the strong and mighty, but that is what is known to most.

I think that nostalgia will render people incapable of imagining middle-earth in any other way than what they have already seen: whether it is the structure of the narrative, the music, or even its filming location. This nostalgia has now become a problem. Those people won't allow the show to succeed - or fail - on its own merits. They'd rather pine for a different experience, one they've already seen.

Amazon will either be forced to yield to those expectations and make something that will feel like a cheap clone of what came before (never mind the authenticity of it) or it will alienate those viewers who can't imagine politics, human sacrifice, and imperialism/colonization in middle-earth: "This sucks! where are the Hobbits and their eating habits!"

This isn't a criticism at you or how you feel about the movies. It's more of a blanket observation of the situation in general.

Brian Earl Spilner
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Well I'd venture a guess that 99% of viewers will have NZ in their heads as Middle Earth as well.

But for me it's more about the seasons actually matching each other than anything else.

But that said, I'm sure they've probably shot a ton of plates of the NZ landscapes and might film in a volume like they did on Mandalorian, and viewers won't be able to tell the difference.

I mean GoT switched countries for King's Landing after S1, and most people couldn't tell, so I'm sure it'll be fine. Still a bit of a bummer though. Especially for the NZ film crews.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Quote:

This nostalgia has now become a problem. Those people won't allow the show to succeed - or fail - on its own merits. They'd rather pine for a different experience, one they've already seen.


As for this, I would challenge a purist such as yourself to take this same advice, and put the source material aside when watching film/tv adaptations and enjoying the show on its own merits.

One does not have to replace the other. (Colbert actually talked about this very thing on the Friendship Onion podcast, part 2 of his interview.)
SpreadsheetAg
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Do we know if it's Quenta Silmarillion or Akallabeth ?

Recap:
Quote:

Quenta Silmarillion, which forms the bulk of the collection, chronicles the history of the events before and during the First Age, including the wars over three jewels, the Silmarils, that gave the book its title. The fourth part, Akallabeth, relates the history of the Downfall of Numenor and its people, which takes place in the Second Age.


Or both; or neither? I guess it has to be Quenta Silmarillion since I saw Morgoth (Melkor) played a role.

Or will this be more based on Children of Hurin?
Brian Earl Spilner
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Fairly sure it's fully taking place in the Second Age. But I'm sure there'll be a prologue of any relevant setup like they did on Fellowship.
redline248
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Quote:

Well I'd venture a guess that 99% of viewers will have NZ in their heads as Middle Earth as well
I'd venture a guess that most people have no idea where Lord of the Rings was filmed
powerbelly
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Well I'd venture a guess that 99% of viewers will have NZ in their heads as Middle Earth as well.

There are big sections of England/Wales/Scotland that look just like NZ. No one really cares where it is shot as long as it feels similar.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Speak for yourself.
Brian Earl Spilner
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redline248 said:

Quote:

Well I'd venture a guess that 99% of viewers will have NZ in their heads as Middle Earth as well
I'd venture a guess that most people have no idea where Lord of the Rings was filmed


Solo Tetherball Champ
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Quote:

This nostalgia has now become a problem. Those people won't allow the show to succeed - or fail - on its own merits. They'd rather pine for a different experience, one they've already seen.


As for this, I would challenge a purist such as yourself to take this same advice, and put the source material aside when watching film/tv adaptations and enjoying the show on its own merits.

Well, when one claims to be something or adapting it, I think they're beholden to what they're sourcing.

As adaptations generally go, if you want to argue that Jacksons flicks (LOTR - let's not get into those other films) are more faithful than the norm, sure. But its also like being the tallest hobbit in the room. Its an awfully low bar considering what passes for adaptations out there (Without Remorse comes to mind).

I can recognize that those are great movies; but they don't hit the spot for me. When my favorite moments from the book are excised so we can have lengthier battles, or needless action sequences (10 minutes on a collapsing stair), well...

Quote:

One does not have to replace the other. (Colbert actually talked about this very thing on the Friendship Onion podcast, part 2 of his interview.)
But that's the problem. It usually does replace the other in the cultural zeitgeist. I see you're someone who browses r/lotrmemes. Have yo looked at any the other related middle-earth subs? 99% of the fan art you'll see is directly sourced from the movies. Very rarely do you see anything actually original. Every now and again you see something like this and it takes my breath away:



Anyways:

Quote:

Fairly sure it's fully taking place in the Second Age. But I'm sure there'll be a prologue of any relevant setup like they did on Fellowship.
I actually hope they don't do a prologue.

OpeningFellowship with an epic prologue made perfect sense. For one, you need to get the audience invested and give them a taste of what is to come, as well as establish the threat. Could you imagine opening up with the Concerning Hobbits sequence and all that frivolity? However, showing the threat and then what is threatened totally works.

I don't think it was needed in The Hobbit, but it ties into what I feel i one of the key flaws of those films: Jackson was trying to recreate LOTR rather than allow that film(s) be its own thing.

Jumping back to Amazon here: they're going to have anywhere from 6-10 hours in the first season alone. I hope they take their time with the backstory; establish context through some cold opens depicting a key sequence (as distinct from an expeditionary prologue), dialogue, and perhaps even flashback a la "I was there Gandalf...". Its 2021. Big Budget fantasy is not the gamble it was 20 years ago. Be patient and trust the audience to stay invested.

Brian Earl Spilner
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I have seen and love that image as well. And yes I browse other Tolkien subs.

Why is this becoming a Tolkien dick contest though?
redline248
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My tower is bigger than yours
Solo Tetherball Champ
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

I have seen and love that image as well. And yes I browse other Tolkien subs.

Why is this becoming a Tolkien dick contest though?
I must have picked up some pedantry when I hung out on tolkienfans.

If you ever go onto lotr_on_prime, I'm much more of playful smartass...
PatAg
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Hard pass
Brian Earl Spilner
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https://variety.com/2021/global/asia/new-zealand-shame-amazon-lord-of-the-rings-1235041077/amp/
Lathspell
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Don't know if this was already posted, and I'm too lazy to go through this entire thread to check.

Came across this, the other day. Apparently others have done something like this. He provides links you can go to for the download. Basically, cuts the Hobbit up into a 4-hour long single film, which more closely follows the book.

I have always held that the 9 hours of the Hobbit movies had 1 good movie in there, somewhere. This may end up making it rewatchable, for me.

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YouBet
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FAT SEXY said:

Denethor's last supper always makes me hungry man


That scene is so disturbing to me.
AgBQ-00
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YouBet said:

FAT SEXY said:

Denethor's last supper always makes me hungry man


That scene is so disturbing to me.
Seriously the most menacing and gross tomato eating ever.
Brian Earl Spilner
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The helicopter story at the 1 hour mark. So good.
wangus12
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YouBet said:

FAT SEXY said:

Denethor's last supper always makes me hungry man


That scene is so disturbing to me.
In reality, this is how I picture 95% politicians.
YouBet
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wangus12 said:

YouBet said:

FAT SEXY said:

Denethor's last supper always makes me hungry man


That scene is so disturbing to me.
In reality, this is how I picture 95% politicians.


Ha. No doubt.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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DallasTeleAg said:

Don't know if this was already posted, and I'm too lazy to go through this entire thread to check.

Came across this, the other day. Apparently others have done something like this. He provides links you can go to for the download. Basically, cuts the Hobbit up into a 4-hour long single film, which more closely follows the book.

I have always held that the 9 hours of the Hobbit movies had 1 good movie in there, somewhere. This may end up making it rewatchable, for me.


It also would have made a good 2.5 hour movie.
Take out all the wink/nods to the LOTR movies probably would have cut the run time in half.

I posit that Ronan the Accuser telling Legolas about Aragorn is possibly the worst thing in a movie ever.

"You should go seek this guy in the North. I know his name, but I am not going to tell you what it is, for no reason at all. I'm also not going to tell you his heritage, although that would give you a great reason to go meet him. Yep, just going to be cryptic about it. Oh, they call him Strider.
Lathspell
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I downloaded his cuts and actually like the Hobbit now!

Did a great job of removing all the crap. However, I do dislike that he took out the scene with the Dwarves waiting for the charging orcs, only to have the elves jump over them and start attacking. That was a cool cinematic scene.
SpreadsheetAg
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Is the "Misty Mountains Cold" song still in it? That might be my 2nd favorite non-Star Wars cinema score... definitely #2 Men's Chorus behind the Russian National Anthem sung by the submariners in THFRO
Lathspell
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Yes. That was one of the best parts of the entire trilogy. Really, he did a good job of removing all the extra crap and only really kept parts from the book itself. Every once in a while, the cut is noticeably jarring, but is generally something I can look past.

Now, I really want to get an editing program and edit myself a 4K version of a cut like this one, for my personal Hobbit movie.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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SpreadsheetAg said:

Is the "Misty Mountains Cold" song still in it? That might be my 2nd favorite non-Star Wars cinema score... definitely #2 Men's Chorus behind the Russian National Anthem sung by the submariners in THFRO
Hearing the Misty Mountain song in the first trailer (or maybe the second) had me so jazzed for that movie.




If you had told me that this movie was going to be anything less than 100000% spectacular from seeing this trailer, I would have killed you where you stood back in 2012.
Quincey P. Morris
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I don't think I saw it here so forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I just downloaded The Hobbit audiobook narrated by Andy Serkis. I've listened to the original audiobook and I'm definitely enjoying Serkis' version better. He's also done the Lord of the Rings books with those being released on 9/16.
Lathspell
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This made my day:

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Lathspell
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It still would have sucked. It's 2 movies too long.
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