***** The Lord of the Rings: Official Thread *****

238,422 Views | 1956 Replies | Last: 9 days ago by Brian Earl Spilner
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Easy, Rod said:

Yeah, no thanks to this garbage:
Quote:

Amazon's series will also broaden the notion of who shares the world of Middle-earth. One original story line centers on a silvan elf named Arondir, played by Ismael Cruz Crdova, who will be the first person of color to play an elf onscreen in a Tolkien project. He is involved in a forbidden relationship with Bronwyn, a human village healer played by Nazanin Boniadi, a British actor of Iranian heritage.

On the other hand, I am very curious what Moria and Lindon look like. Numenor too. Might be best to watch with the sound off and fast forwarding to geographic scenes.

I don't really care about Jeff Bezos financing Middle Earth fan fiction, which is exactly what this is.

Moria is going to look a lot like what we've seen in the films: Very geometric. Gold (IE, not mithril) is going be wrought into geometric, almost nordic designs in column/walls.

Source: I've seen set leaks.

We'll see if any of it makes its way into the teaser at the superbowl.
Lathspell
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Yay... LOTR woke fan fiction.

No thanks.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Can't wait to see Moria.
PatAg
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powerbelly said:

Easy, Rod said:

Yeah, no thanks to this garbage:
Quote:

Amazon's series will also broaden the notion of who shares the world of Middle-earth. One original story line centers on a silvan elf named Arondir, played by Ismael Cruz Crdova, who will be the first person of color to play an elf onscreen in a Tolkien project. He is involved in a forbidden relationship with Bronwyn, a human village healer played by Nazanin Boniadi, a British actor of Iranian heritage.

On the other hand, I am very curious what Moria and Lindon look like. Numenor too. Might be best to watch with the sound off and fast forwarding to geographic scenes.

I don't really care about Jeff Bezos financing Middle Earth fan fiction, which is exactly what this is.
So much source material already there and we get a dumbass rom-com story line.
I'm thinking that whatever they bought the rights to doesnt include all of the Silmarilion, or large parts of it were excluded.
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PatAg said:

powerbelly said:

Easy, Rod said:

Yeah, no thanks to this garbage:
Quote:

Amazon's series will also broaden the notion of who shares the world of Middle-earth. One original story line centers on a silvan elf named Arondir, played by Ismael Cruz Crdova, who will be the first person of color to play an elf onscreen in a Tolkien project. He is involved in a forbidden relationship with Bronwyn, a human village healer played by Nazanin Boniadi, a British actor of Iranian heritage.

On the other hand, I am very curious what Moria and Lindon look like. Numenor too. Might be best to watch with the sound off and fast forwarding to geographic scenes.

I don't really care about Jeff Bezos financing Middle Earth fan fiction, which is exactly what this is.
So much source material already there and we get a dumbass rom-com story line.
I'm thinking that whatever they bought the rights to doesnt include all of the Silmarilion, or large parts of it were excluded.
If you have a twitter, give Fellowshipoffans (@fansfellowship) a follow.

I'm involved in the group on the backend, so I'm privy to a number of details that haven't been released yet. If you ever watch one of his livestreams of podcasts, I'm the jackass called penguin.

We've broken a number of scoops about the show: directors, castings, roles, etc. Unlike a group like theonering.net, we're not on Amazons distribution list so we're not privy to official PR type stuff.

Anyways, one of the things we were able to do was track down and identify a rejected show runner who had pitched his concept of the second age to Bezos and other members of Amazons leadership. We were able to interview him and put it up on YouTube, before Amazon sent out a cease and desist letter to take it down. At the time, the only rights that they thought they could access we're LOTR (plus appendices), and The Hobbit, so they constructed the outline of their narrative from those materials.

This was in the fall of last year. However, we've known since about early 2019 that Amazon had contracted directly with the Tolkien Estate, who still held onto the television rights to LOTR and The Hobbit, as well as the rights to all other materials. The working assumption of everyone paying attention is that Amazon must have paid for some of these materials as well.

I'm still taking these reports that they're exclusively drawing from the Appendices with a grain of salt. For one, they're already working with the Estate. Secondly, we know that they have filmed something to do with the two trees in Valinor, as well as relating the crossing of the helcraxe. Third, it probably keeps the general audience calmer by claiming to pull from the Appendices rather than primarily sourcing Unfinished Tales. Most of the general audience hasn't read the books, so for all they know this material may be in there. But creating a narrative out of "Unfinished Tales"? That's how you create angst and anxiety.

We'll see.
Fightin TX Aggie
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The Collective
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Taking Disney's approach.
Chipotlemonger
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I Have Spoken said:

Taking Disney's approach.
I had the exact same thought
Brian Earl Spilner
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Of course there was bound to be backlash about the multicultural casting, but can you imagine if they DIDN'T put in a single POC in the entire cast?

2001 was a long time ago. If you put that trilogy out in 2022, there would be a massive uproar about the fact that the only black/brown actors played orcs / Uruk-Hai.

While I certainly don't love every single change they're making, I don't mind it, nor am I surprised by it.

If the characters are well-written and their stories are good, I personally don't mind deviating from Tolkien a bit.

My biggest thing that makes me a bit nervous is that they're condensing thousands of years worth of history into a "human" time period, for the sake of their human characters. But again, if it's done well, it doesn't matter much.
Fightin TX Aggie
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I don't care at all about the multicultural casting. They could make Elrond black or Asian for all I care. Irrelevant to me.

What I am concerned about is all these new invented key characters with new, non-Tolkien story lines and character arcs.

PDWT_12
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I think Galadriel looks cool and that shot of her and Elrond is pretty. Interested in those nomadic folks. Passed that I don't really put a lot of stock in VF photos.

I hope this thing can be semi successful. I know there is some debate on what Amazon actually had access to but I feel like there is just no way they were going to be allowed to do something like Beren and Luthien right out of the box. But if they can do something halfway decent here, maybe that's something that gets unlocked in the future.
The Collective
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Yea, what I see is Amazon trying to put all people casting any doubts in the same box. That's what I was comparing to Disney.
Quincey P. Morris
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Of course there was bound to be backlash about the multicultural casting, but can you imagine if they DIDN'T put in a single POC in the entire cast?

2001 was a long time ago. If you put that trilogy out in 2022, there would be a massive uproar about the fact that the only black/brown actors played orcs / Uruk-Hai.

While I certainly don't love every single change they're making, I don't mind it, nor am I surprised by it.

If the characters are well-written and their stories are good, I personally don't mind deviating from Tolkien a bit.

My biggest thing that makes me a bit nervous is that they're condensing thousands of years worth of history into a "human" time period, for the sake of their human characters. But again, if it's done well, it doesn't matter much.


There was criticism of that even then.
powerbelly
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Am I the only one upset that the dwarf women don't have beards?
The Collective
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powerbelly said:

Am I the only one upset that the dwarf women don't have beards?


I thought there were no dwarf women.
powerbelly
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I Have Spoken said:

powerbelly said:

Am I the only one upset that the dwarf women don't have beards?


I thought there were no dwarf women.
It's true you don't see many dwarf women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for dwarf men.
Fightin TX Aggie
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powerbelly said:

Am I the only one upset that the dwarf women don't have beards?
Everyone is upset, other than that actress.
Quad Dog
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Of course there was bound to be backlash about the multicultural casting, but can you imagine if they DIDN'T put in a single POC in the entire cast?

2001 was a long time ago. If you put that trilogy out in 2022, there would be a massive uproar about the fact that the only black/brown actors played orcs / Uruk-Hai.

While I certainly don't love every single change they're making, I don't mind it, nor am I surprised by it.

If the characters are well-written and their stories are good, I personally don't mind deviating from Tolkien a bit.

My biggest thing that makes me a bit nervous is that they're condensing thousands of years worth of history into a "human" time period, for the sake of their human characters. But again, if it's done well, it doesn't matter much.
Also there are only 3 female speaking parts in LOTR and they never talk to each other.
Fightin TX Aggie
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The Porkchop Express
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They can make me a lifetime fan if they use LZ's "Ramble On" for the opening credits.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Battle of Evermore would actually be perfect.
AtlAg05
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Just finished the article.

Call me an optimist, but it really seems like these guys get it. They get the love and adoration for this world, and are fans themselves.

I think we're in for a treat in September.


I think that line has been said about most of not all directors using source material. But what else are they suppose to say, "He really hates LoTR but wanted to direct it. ".
amercer
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Are they really spending 60 million an episode?

If nothing else, it should be a glorious, rich, engrossing dumpster fire.
Ulrich
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I hope this is good.
Quincey P. Morris
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I'm on a few LOTR Facebook pages and there are a significant number of people losing their minds over the article. From black dwarves and elves to nothing looking right in the images. It's amazing how much they've already decided with next to nothing to go on.
Ulrich
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

2001 was a long time ago. If you put that trilogy out in 2022, there would be a massive uproar about the fact that the only black/brown actors played orcs / Uruk-Hai.

Not true. The Haradrim were also brownish.

I don't really care about changing a race to be a different color as long as they don't outright subvert the source material or become internally inconsistent. For example, Galadriel is blonde and that's a plot point in Tolkien's world. You can't make her brunette or you lose the inspiration for the silmarils and some thematic stuff regarding light.

If by sylvan elf they are encoding dark elf, Eol is the main example… he wasn't a good guy and his son was a creep.
CondensedFogAggie
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I'm glad Amazon is investing a ton of money into LOTR, but wonder why they bothered to pick up WOT. Roughly similar background and fantasy themes, but less than 1/10 the budget of LOTR.
Lathspell
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As a fan of many fantasy novels and series, worldbuilding is a huge and critical part to all of my favorite fantasy series. The authors I read take great care to create a world with history, culture, and geography. In these stories, there are generally different races and ethnicities, as well. However, there is usually a history to each of these races and religions, explaining where they are from and how they get to different places.

Just deciding a random character or group of characters has to be a certain race without any historical reason within the story as to why they are so different from everyone else around them is hamfisted and poor worldbuilding.

Therefore, I immediately have a critique for the story. In Middle Earth, the men of the east are different races from the men of the west. I'm sorry people see parallels between this and our world, thinking Tolkien is racist for painting those cultures in Middle Earth as evil for having fallen in with Sauron, but that is his world and story.

If you wanted to have a black character who happened to be a traveler from the East, then I could accept that. However, just sprinkling in various people of color everywhere is absolutely ridiculous from a worldbuilding perspective. To be honest, I found this exact thing to be one of the biggest distractions in The Witcher Netflix series.

TLDR: Forcing different races into a fully realized world simply to be inclusive is not true to the world of the author and will immediately draw an antagonistic response from me.
PatAg
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DallasTeleAg said:

As a fan of many fantasy novels and series, worldbuilding is a huge and critical part to all of my favorite fantasy series. The authors I read take great care to create a world with history, culture, and geography. In these stories, there are generally different races and ethnicities, as well. However, there is usually a history to each of these races and religions, explaining where they are from and how they get to different places.

Just deciding a random character or group of characters has to be a certain race without any historical reason within the story as to why they are so different from everyone else around them is hamfisted and poor worldbuilding.

Therefore, I immediately have a critique for the story. In Middle Earth, the men of the east are different races from the men of the west. I'm sorry people see parallels between this and our world, thinking Tolkien is racist for painting those cultures in Middle Earth as evil for having fallen in with Sauron, but that is his world and story.

If you wanted to have a black character who happened to be a traveler from the East, then I could accept that. However, just sprinkling in various people of color everywhere is absolutely ridiculous from a worldbuilding perspective. To be honest, I found this exact thing to be one of the biggest distractions in The Witcher Netflix series.

TLDR: Forcing different races into a fully realized world simply to be inclusive is not true to the world of the author and will immediately draw an antagonistic response from me.
What is wrong with your brain?
Madmarttigan
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DallasTeleAg said:

As a fan of many fantasy novels and series, worldbuilding is a huge and critical part to all of my favorite fantasy series. The authors I read take great care to create a world with history, culture, and geography. In these stories, there are generally different races and ethnicities, as well. However, there is usually a history to each of these races and religions, explaining where they are from and how they get to different places.

Just deciding a random character or group of characters has to be a certain race without any historical reason within the story as to why they are so different from everyone else around them is hamfisted and poor worldbuilding.

Therefore, I immediately have a critique for the story. In Middle Earth, the men of the east are different races from the men of the west. I'm sorry people see parallels between this and our world, thinking Tolkien is racist for painting those cultures in Middle Earth as evil for having fallen in with Sauron, but that is his world and story.

If you wanted to have a black character who happened to be a traveler from the East, then I could accept that. However, just sprinkling in various people of color everywhere is absolutely ridiculous from a worldbuilding perspective. To be honest, I found this exact thing to be one of the biggest distractions in The Witcher Netflix series.

TLDR: Forcing different races into a fully realized world simply to be inclusive is not true to the world of the author and will immediately draw an antagonistic response from me.


I guess I'm a ****** because I barely noticed it with the Witcher. The wheel of time was the show I did notice it with but they just did a poor job with the show overall so their casting choices were the least of my worries.

Sounds to me like you are going out of your way to get distracted. Casting people of different race here and there shouldn't destroy your "fantasy"
The Porkchop Express
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Really want dallasteleag in a roomful of black and Asian actors telling them that they're all fired because he finds their skin color distracting.
jeffk
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The dude pops into just about every show or movie thread to make sure everyone knows why he's displeased or not watching. It's kind of hilarious now that I notice it.
chase128
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That picture with Elrond and the blond elf, is that his wife Celebrian? It didn't look like Galadriel (and it doesn't make sense to have Elrond and Galadriel posing like that together).
Lathspell
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helloimustbegoing said:

Really want dallasteleag in a roomful of black and Asian actors telling them that they're all fired because he finds their skin color distracting.
I would never have hired Asian or black actors in the first place, to fire them. If the world we were adapting was based on a more asian culture, I wouldn't hire a bunch of white, indian, or black actors. If the world was based on a middle eastern culture, I would cast based on that.

If I was adapting The Stormlight Archive, for instance, I wouldn't cast a white guy as Dalinar or Kaladin.

I don't see how there is anything wrong with that opinion. If you want to just cast a random group of races for random characters, go for it. It is obviously an attempt to force in diversity and is noticed by myself because I actually appreciate good worldbuilding.
 
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