***** The Lord of the Rings: Official Thread *****

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Lathspell
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 10:31a, 9/3/22
AG
Definitely Not A Cop said:
DallasTeleAg said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
Can I ask a dumb question here? Why didn't Sauron make another ring after he was defeated the first time? Would he not be able to even with Sauramon helping him?
Because he poured his power into the One Ring. When he lost it, he lost a lot of his power. He doesn't have an unlimited amount of power.

Call it soul, spirit, mana, power, or whatever you would like. Pretty standard among fantasy that a being has a certain amount of power to draw from. If it is some form of renewable energy, that's one thing. If it is part of your being, then you are investing that part of your being into an artifact or spell, and must recover it to be whole.


Got you. Kind of like Sandman with his **** then. The artifact let's you focus your power more specifically in ways that you couldn't do if you didn't have it.

So were the other rings part of his power too? And the idea was he was just setting them up to be enslaved once he made the one ring?
Someone else more read on the the deeper history would have to answer this. It is my understanding that the other rings were more magical artifacts that were created. The One Ring was created in secret to rule over the others. This is why Sauron poured his own essence into this ring. It was a different kind of power than the other rings.

At least, that is how I have always understood it. At the end of the day, LotR has a very soft magic system, so a lot of it is left up to interpretation.

EDIT: This is why the One Ring was inherently evil/corrupting. The other rings provided their bearers power, as long as they didn't abuse it. Gandalf and Galadriel famously used the power of their rings throughout their lives.
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Claude!
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 11:05a, 9/3/22
Definitely Not A Cop said:
DallasTeleAg said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
Can I ask a dumb question here? Why didn't Sauron make another ring after he was defeated the first time? Would he not be able to even with Sauramon helping him?
Because he poured his power into the One Ring. When he lost it, he lost a lot of his power. He doesn't have an unlimited amount of power.

Call it soul, spirit, mana, power, or whatever you would like. Pretty standard among fantasy that a being has a certain amount of power to draw from. If it is some form of renewable energy, that's one thing. If it is part of your being, then you are investing that part of your being into an artifact or spell, and must recover it to be whole.


Got you. Kind of like Sandman with his **** then. The artifact let's you focus your power more specifically in ways that you couldn't do if you didn't have it.

So were the other rings part of his power too? And the idea was he was just setting them up to be enslaved once he made the one ring?
You got it. From the books and the original movies:

Quote:
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
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Claude!
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In reply to Lathspell • 11:13a, 9/3/22
DallasTeleAg said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
DallasTeleAg said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
Can I ask a dumb question here? Why didn't Sauron make another ring after he was defeated the first time? Would he not be able to even with Sauramon helping him?
Because he poured his power into the One Ring. When he lost it, he lost a lot of his power. He doesn't have an unlimited amount of power.

Call it soul, spirit, mana, power, or whatever you would like. Pretty standard among fantasy that a being has a certain amount of power to draw from. If it is some form of renewable energy, that's one thing. If it is part of your being, then you are investing that part of your being into an artifact or spell, and must recover it to be whole.


Got you. Kind of like Sandman with his **** then. The artifact let's you focus your power more specifically in ways that you couldn't do if you didn't have it.

So were the other rings part of his power too? And the idea was he was just setting them up to be enslaved once he made the one ring?
Someone else more read on the the deeper history would have to answer this. It is my understanding that the other rings were more magical artifacts that were created. The One Ring was created in secret to rule over the others. This is why Sauron poured his own essence into this ring. It was a different kind of power than the other rings.

At least, that is how I have always understood it. At the end of the day, LotR has a very soft magic system, so a lot of it is left up to interpretation.

EDIT: This is why the One Ring was inherently evil/corrupting. The other rings provided their bearers power, as long as they didn't abuse it. Gandalf and Galadriel famously used the power of their rings throughout their lives.
That's pretty on the nose. Some minor spoilers from the books:

The Nine Rings for Men wound up enslaving their bearers, ultimately turning them into the Ringwraiths we know and love due to the corrupting power of Sauron. The Dwarf-lords, however, were mostly immune to that sort of corruption, but their rings wound up enhancing the Dwarf's greed for gold and treasure and may also have attracted dragons (though that may have been the gold).

The Three rings for elven-kings were not crafted with Sauron's aid or knowledge; the elf-smith Celebrimbor crafted them alone, and the bearers were not corrupted by wearing them. However, because Sauron taught Celebrimbor the magic of ring-making, the Three were still connected to the One Ring. When Sauron completed the One Ring, the elves immediately sensed it and removed their rings. When Sauron was defeated in the Last Alliance of Elves and Men and the One Ring lost, it was once again safe for the elves to wield the Three.
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redline248
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11:43a, 9/3/22
AG
So, show talk. What do we think the dwarves have? Mithril? Is this the time frame of its discovery?
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The Debt
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In reply to PatAg • 11:58a, 9/3/22
PatAg said:
The Debt said:
Havent watched it yet, but heard a writer critiquing it saying characters spoke the words "okay" multiple times in the first episode, so it wasnt just a bad take that snuck in during editing, someone had to write this a number of times it was used. The writer asked if the people working on this even realize how lazy their writing is. Throwing modern phrases into a fantasy world, one that takes place before the Jackson films in these lands, you would try and emulate the success of Jacksons script, because you sure AF wont approach the level of dialogue from Tolkien.
You love forming strong opinions about shows you dont watch, huh

Where did I give you my opinion?

Siskel and Ebert made a career of watching films before they were released and telling people if the writing was bad or the cinematography was great. People are allowed to listen to critics.

Speaking of which, no critic has come out and commended the writing so far. In fact, I have seen plenty of mainstream sources saying the dialogue is pedestrian. So are you going to interact with this criticism or just be a child?
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PatAg
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In reply to The Debt • 1:03p, 9/3/22
AG
You've typed multiple paragraphs about a show you arent watching.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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2:42p, 9/3/22
AG
New theory just occurred to me. What if the giant is the Balrog?

We know he began as Maiar, same as the other wizards. And there was the mention of the fire around him not being hot, which reminds me of Galadriel mentioning they're in a place so evil that their torches give off no warmth.

And also a cool little reference to the One Ring not getting hot in the fire in FOTR. "It's quite cool."
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Lathspell
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 2:45p, 9/3/22
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
New theory just occurred to me. What if the giant is the Balrog?

We know he began as Maiar, same as the other wizards. And there was the mention of the fire around him not being hot, which reminds me of Galadriel mentioning they're in a place so evil that their torches give off no warmth.
That would be a huge rewrite. The Balrogs were corrupted by Morgoth, not Sauron.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Lathspell • 2:50p, 9/3/22
AG
Could be he was already corrupted before being sent to Middle Earth, and he will slowly corrupt/transform as his memories return to him.
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redline248
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2:56p, 9/3/22
AG
I think that is a reach
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AgE2theBONE
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In reply to redline248 • 3:20p, 9/3/22
AG
redline248 said:
So, show talk. What do we think the dwarves have? Mithril? Is this the time frame of its discovery?

I took it to be obvious it was the Arkenstone?

Is there any reason that might not be the case?
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redline248
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In reply to AgE2theBONE • 3:21p, 9/3/22
AG
AgE2theBONE said:
redline248 said:
So, show talk. What do we think the dwarves have? Mithril? Is this the time frame of its discovery?

I took it to be obvious it was the Arkenstone?

Is there any reason that might not be the case?
Dwarves haven't gone to the lonely mountain yet to find it

(at least I think)
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CondensedFogAggie
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3:25p, 9/3/22
Read about a theory, prob been posted here, that Saurons mark may be a map.

Its also interesting how the show has to deliberately obfuscate things as they only own the rights to parts of lotr. Guess thats why the history lessons are quite abstract
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AgE2theBONE
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In reply to redline248 • 3:26p, 9/3/22
AG
redline248 said:
AgE2theBONE said:
redline248 said:
So, show talk. What do we think the dwarves have? Mithril? Is this the time frame of its discovery?

I took it to be obvious it was the Arkenstone?

Is there any reason that might not be the case?
Dwarves haven't gone to the lonely mountain yet to find it

(at least I think)

If that's where it was found, I didn't know that.

Interesting.
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JJxvi
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3:27p, 9/3/22
AG
Did anybody else but the harfoots see the meteor? In modern tv writing style I guess theres a possibility that its Gandalf but its not happening at the same time as the rest of the story.
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AgE2theBONE
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In reply to JJxvi • 3:30p, 9/3/22
AG
JJxvi said:
Did anybody else but the harfoots see the meteor? In modern tv writing style I guess theres a possibility that its Gandalf but its not happening at the same time as the rest of the story.

I'm gonna have to go with Harfeet. I just can't say Harfoots.

If it's Gandalf, that would be predictable (from a fan service, writer's perspective) but I hope it's not.
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redline248
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In reply to JJxvi • 3:30p, 9/3/22
AG
They showed the elves and maybe humans watching it fly. Apparently none of them cared about it after that, though.
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Mathguy64
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3:34p, 9/3/22
AG
I haven't watched the shows yet but the Istari don't come to ME until TA1000. It can't be Gandalf. If it is they are just destroying the timeline.
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AgE2theBONE
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In reply to redline248 • 3:34p, 9/3/22
AG
redline248 said:
They showed the elves and maybe humans watching it fly. Apparently none of them cared about it after that, though.

I wonder if they know it means dragons.

Oh wait, that was a comet. This was a meteorite
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redline248
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In reply to AgE2theBONE • 3:39p, 9/3/22
AG
Durin is the REAL Prince who was promised!
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Lathspell
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3:42p, 9/3/22
AG
Did the dwarves have a Silmaril? Or was it too small?
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CondensedFogAggie
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In reply to JJxvi • 3:48p, 9/3/22
JJxvi said:
Did anybody else but the harfoots see the meteor? In modern tv writing style I guess theres a possibility that its Gandalf but its not happening at the same time as the rest of the story.

Yeah too early for him

99% sure it's one of the blue wizards. The history about them is very scant, but one of Tolkiens writing says they may have accomplished a lot of unreported heroics by disrupting the east/southern areas from joining Sauron in full force. A nice area for some new creative story telling from Amazon.

Which aligns pretty well with the location of Arondir
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Lathspell
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In reply to CondensedFogAggie • 3:50p, 9/3/22
AG
I have always been under the impression the Istari all came over at the same time. The Blue wizards definitely were together, I thought.
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CondensedFogAggie
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In reply to Lathspell • 3:53p, 9/3/22
DallasTeleAg said:
I have always been under the impression the Istari all came over at the same time. The Blue wizards definitely were together, I thought.

Yeah it seems disputed, and I know Tolkien kinda flip flopped on what exactly they did. Earlier writings suggest they failed, or even became evil. But other writings say otherwise.

And apparently:

The time that the Blue Wizards arrived in Middle-earth is uncertain. In Unfinished Tales, Tolkien wrote that the five Istari came to Middle-earth together in TA 1000. However, in The Peoples of Middle-earth, they are said to have arrived in the Second Age, around the year SA 1600, the time of the forging of the One Ring.Their mission was directed at weakening Sauron's forces in the eastern and southern parts of Middle-earth, whereas the other Istari were focused on the west.

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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Lathspell • 3:54p, 9/3/22
AG
Tolkien himself apparently reconned them though. Check out my earlier post about them.
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AmarilloBQ02
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In reply to PatAg • 4:02p, 9/3/22
AG
Quote:
You've typed multiple paragraphs about a show you arent watching.

Child it is...
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Brian Earl Spilner
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4:02p, 9/3/22
AG
Also heard a theory that Theo might eventually become one of the Ringwraiths, although he'd have to become a king first. Lots of seasons to get there though.
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Lathspell
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4:04p, 9/3/22
AG
But didn't all the Istari sail across the sea? Gandalf definitely did. The Valar didn't send them over in a fireball, basically as newborns with no knowledge of the language or what they're even doing here.
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Mathguy64
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5:59p, 9/3/22
AG
I gave up after 30 minutes. They flipped the characters. They made Galadriel a warrior and Elrond into a wimp. Whatever they are trying to tell as a story seemed at odds with the history Tolkien created.
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CondensedFogAggie
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In reply to Lathspell • 6:12p, 9/3/22
DallasTeleAg said:
But didn't all the Istari sail across the sea? Gandalf definitely did. The Valar didn't send them over in a fireball, basically as newborns with no knowledge of the language or what they're even doing here.


Well clearly his oven exploded and knocked him across the ocean. I'd probably have some memory issues too after that landing.

Seriously speaking though yeah no clue. Some say what he was muttering about may mean he's looking for Sauron
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Brian Earl Spilner
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8:25p, 9/3/22
AG
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CondensedFogAggie
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In reply to Lathspell • 9:07p, 9/3/22
DallasTeleAg said:
But didn't all the Istari sail across the sea? Gandalf definitely did. The Valar didn't send them over in a fireball, basically as newborns with no knowledge of the language or what they're even doing here.

Also as I recall, Gandalf also kinda temporarily lost his memory after fighting that balrog and leveling up. The Gods do have a rough way of sending their wizards back to earth.
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powerbelly
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9:27p, 9/3/22
AG
I did love khazad dum
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MaroonStain
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9:42p, 9/3/22
AG
I'm dubious about what's going on.

Galadriel is swimming and on a boat chasing Sauron. Elron is hanging out with a dwarf clan. A man has dropped from the stars and a boy with his Mother fought a goblin.

How does all of this tie into together?

Edit: Nm. Watched above video. GTG.
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Lathspell
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In reply to MaroonStain • 9:52p, 9/3/22
AG
MaroonStain said:
How does all of this tie into together?
I'm pretty sure she's going to end up in Numenor to enlist the help of the Numenorians in some way...
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