schmendeler said:

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I would have loved a lot more on the engineers. that concept fascinates me.

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Yeah this was my beef with the movie, other than the alien CGI. I feel like they tied up the Engineer storyline too quickly. If it's true that the next movie is Shaw and David's journey between Prometheus and Covenant, I guess that's OK, but they should have done that one first. We already know how that ends now.

Are we done with spoiler tags?

The Makers/Engineers were thought to be a long passed race via Promethus. Since they had abandoned their weapons factory planet, or maybe they simply quarantined the planet because the virus got loose. It's left to your imagination. I was sort of surprised to see that David returned their weapon and used it on them. Nice little **** you from the humans and the android they designed. David did protect the human race by eliminating the threat of the Makers.

Then he sat for a decade, alone, calculating at teraflop speeds. Being programmed to create he reached some conclusions that don't bode well for humanity. Going from a protector to deciding all flesh bags gotta go. So he started engineering the virus in a new way.

And he's not done as from what we know, he didn't turn the Covenant around to head back to Earth.

But here's the thing, David engineered the protomorph, which is different from the xenomorph from Alien, at least in incubation and 1st life phase. The Makers didn't create the eggs. Covenant is 10 years after Promethus in 2104. The Nostromo arrives at LV-426 in 2179 to find an engineer's crashed ship laden with eggs. We know the Makers are space faring and that David destroyed a planet. But why can't the Makers have colonized other worlds, exactly as humans are currently doing. We have 2 species bumping into one another and clashing.

It doesn't have to be spelled out but David is not done inteaching with the Makers, it's just for the next movie. And since this is a 3 or 4 part series the rest has yet to come. I fully believe there's more to explore about their civilization but that's not the point of this film.

Promethus is discovering of the Makers. Traveling there to find out they created humans, and then decided their creation had to die. The planet killing virus was so dangerous it got loose and killed the Makers and the crew of the Promethus.

Covenant is Davids revenge to protect his humans before he goes to the dark side. Now he had a ship to be used as a flying lab and weapons factory. Maybe he's out to perfect his creation and hunt more Makers. We don't know. Yet.

Hmmm, in thinking back, there was a mural on the wall of the xenomorph in the head room on LV-223 when the crew opens the door. David said the virus was highly adaptable, but the first generation creates the protomorph. Maybe as it evolves it hits the xenomorph. David may have only designed a version, which would explain the difference in chest burster differences. Ridley did state these films won't be direct prequels to Alien. But it is filling out the origin of the Alien.

I assume he wanted the colonists as lab rats for perfecting and advancing his creation.

Went to see this movie this past weekend. My thoughts --

I enjoyed the movie while in the theater, for the most part. However, the more I think about the movie, the more I dislike what Ridley did. He set up the continuation of the story after Prometheus, and then he skipped over that story entirely. We get a short glimpse of what happened when David and Shaw arrived at the Engineer's planet, but then it's over. ZERO explanation as to what kind of experimentation David was doing, and how exactly he created the facehuggers.

The main theme of the first movie was creation of life, and this movie just skips over all the interesting and important details just to get xenomorphs on the screen. He gave us the dessert and skipped the main course.

I will say that I think the two acts or so, I really enjoyed. I just wish it didn't devolve into basically a remake of Alien in the last act, and a much lesser version of it at that. There was almost zero tension, the ending was predictable, and I saw the "twist" coming a mile away. I knew it the second they skipped over the resolution of the David/Walter fight.

Overall, I don't think the movie is terrible, I give it a 6.5/10 or so. But I wish Ridley had stuck with the great themes set up in Prometheus, rather than reverting to a standard sci-fi horror movie at the end. (Not to mention cheesy tropes like the shower scene. Really? That belongs in an AVP movie, not a Ridley Scott Alien.)

I disagree. It answered a lot of the questions from the first movie, while creating more. He said in order to tell the entire story you need 3 or 4 movies to do it. You're upset because it wasn't explained now. But it may he explained in future movies. All of the Makers aren't dead, only on the one planet.

Besides. They seeded earth before any life existed. Thus they are far and wide throughout the galaxy. There is a lot more to be told and the bigger story is Makers created Man. Man created David (AI). David destroys some Makers to defend Man. David evolved and decided Man has to l die. Each species being destroyed by what it has created. And now David has the Maker's biological weapon to destroy both.

It's not a perfect story and I think we've been spoiled by Marvel where an entire story arch will be plotted out and kept to. Which makes them very coherent. Alien is one movie being made after the other and stories being jig-sawed together to make it work.

Ideally getting a 2 or 3 movie commitment to have the writers do a larger intact arc is better than different writers for each script. But they are telling the story of how the virus is capable of creating the "morphs" and they were always a weapon, not just an errant species.

Nice analysis of some of the themes and references to other allegories.
http://screenrant.com/alien-covenant-movie-easter-eggs/

Saw it last night. Just a bunch of "meh" for me. Like others said, the themes of Prometheus that I loved were abandoned and replaced with lacking alien scenes. Logic, what little character logic there was, from Prometheus (not allowing infected person on ship) was abandoned in Covenant.

I was somewhat entertained, but not more than I was in Prometheus.

Alien
Aliens

Prometheus


Covenant

all others

dan87 said:

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Saw it last night. Just a bunch of "meh" for me.

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Same here. I'm enjoying reading about the themes/thoughts/recaps/easter eggs more than the actual movie. All this shows that the movie could of been executed much better.

I really liked Prometheus, even though it had a bunch of gaps/shortcomings/bad reviews, which made me think I would love this movie because it seemed like it was getting the same feedback as its predecessor.

dan87 said:

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Saw it last night. Just a bunch of "meh" for me. Like others said, the themes of Prometheus that I loved were abandoned and replaced with lacking alien scenes. Logic, what little character logic there was, from Prometheus (not allowing infected person on ship) was abandoned in Covenant.

I was somewhat entertained, but not more than I was in Prometheus.

Alien
Aliens

Prometheus


Covenant

all others

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I would shoe horn the end of Predator 2 somewhere above Prometheus in there.

Just saw it. I'd rank it third behind Aliens then Alien. Yeah a lot of parts were predictable, but I enjoyed the experience.

They did complain about the terrain as to why they couldn't land closer to the signal. Did they talk at all about the atmosphere? because as soon as they landed they opened the hatch and walked out assuming the air was breathable, however, I could have missed that part.

OasisMan said:

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Just saw it. I'd rank it third behind Aliens then Alien. Yeah a lot of parts were predictable, but I enjoyed the experience.

They did complain about the terrain as to why they couldn't land closer to the signal. Did they talk at all about the atmosphere? because as soon as they landed they opened the hatch and walked out assuming the air was breathable, however, I could have missed that part.

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They talked about how perfect it was for life when they spotted it.

I thought the same thing, but then assumed that they were able to tell the composition of the atmosphere within their ship's computer system.

After so much build up, this was a disappointment...lots of blood and killing, but so much it felt disjointed and contrived. So many scenes that were obviously meant to be just promos, omitted from the final cut. What a let down!

I personally rank Prometheus higher than this...

Alien
Aliens
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Prometheus
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Covenant
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Aliens 3/Ressurection

The movie had its issues but the main idea is David was created by Man who decides humans are a dying species and engineers the virus into the neomorph intone xenomorph. Because he thinks he is a god. I hope we don't have to wait 5 years but the idea the alien is an engineered weapon based on a weaponized virus made by the Makers/Engineers is incredible.

And it's highly adaptable which explains in later movies why the xenomorph can take some traits of the host, like the dog. It's defining and explaining the entire series.

What isn't explained is when the Predators discover Davids creation and start using them as sporting games. All in all, I think it's a great job of explaining how all the movies fit together even though there is a lot of disjointed storytelling. Somethings aren't complete, such as the AvP antartic temple, but eh, whatever.

AlaskanAg99 said:

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The movie had its issues but the main idea is David was created by Man who decides humans are a dying species and engineers the virus into the neomorph intone xenomorph. Because he thinks he is a god. I hope we don't have to wait 5 years but the idea the alien is an engineered weapon based on a weaponized virus made by the Makers/Engineers is incredible.

And it's highly adaptable which explains in later movies why the xenomorph can take some traits of the host, like the dog. It's defining and explaining the entire series.

What isn't explained is when the Predators discover Davids creation and start using them as sporting games. All in all, I think it's a great job of explaining how all the movies fit together even though there is a lot of disjointed storytelling. Somethings aren't complete, such as the AvP antartic temple, but eh, whatever.

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lol I don't think we consider AvP part of this canon... I mean, the guy that does the resident evil movies directed it after all.

True true, I really shouldn't consider it part other than the alien which busted forth from a predator carcass had the same mandibles. That's all I was really getting at.

stridulent said:

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lol I don't think we consider AvP part of this canon... I mean, the guy that does the resident evil movies directed it after all.

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Yep, and the AvP movies have a completely different Weyland.

No spoilers yet please. Seeing it tonight.

Haven't read it but thanks for the heads up yo.

VanZandt92 said:

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Haven't read it but thanks for the heads up yo.

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then don't post in it. ripley dies.

GiveEmHellBill said:

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VanZandt92 said:

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No spoilers yet please. Seeing it tonight.

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Billy Cruddup dies......

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It's space horror...everyone dies.

[Sp][/sp]

God made man in his own image.

Peter Weyland made David in his own image. Way too much hubris. Way too much arrogance. Obsessed with being a "creator".

And of course David exhibited the same qualities, eventually.

It was ok but no more. They need to quit trying to explain things. And spaceships that hit things aren't going to fly. Just stop that ***** The sound effects sounded like every other comic book movie.

AlaskanAg99,

Quote:

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What isn't explained is when the Predators discover Davids creation and start using them as sporting games. All in all, I think it's a great job of explaining how all the movies fit together even though there is a lot of disjointed storytelling. Somethings aren't complete, such as the AvP antartic temple, but eh, whatever.

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I agree that it does explain alot, and very much like how it kind of explains the whole series and the features of the xenomorphs/aliens as they manifest. The adaptability tracing back to the original Engineers pathogen properties makes perfect sense.

However, I think you will find Ridley doesn't think he has to explain anything in AvP or the Predator scenarios. I think they may go the way of Vulcan and many other things in the Abrams Star Trek. Just retconned out of existence. That means the corporate beginnings seen in AvP and AvP 2 are no longer valid.

By the way, forgot how --- how to make the spoiler black box texts? I have a few ideas want to mention. I have now seen the movie.

Bracket ([) "spoiler" closer bracket (])

Bracket ([) "/spoiler" closer bracket (])

actually it's

[ sp ]
text you want to hide
[ /sp ]

just remove the white spaces


like so


FYI you can always hit the quote reply (the literal " button at the bottom of each post) and see the text of any post and see how it is done.

VanZandt92 said:

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It was ok but no more. They need to quit trying to explain things. And spaceships that hit things aren't going to fly. Just stop that ***** The sound effects sounded like every other comic book movie.

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Thanks for telling us how spaceships work

OnlyForNow, Zombie Jon Snow,

Thanks a lot for the tips. Especially the trick with the literal quotes. Easy way to check similar questions as they arise on one's own.

Here goes,

Test to see. Will then edit to write what had in mind.

It works. Thanks again. Okay, here's the thought.

That world that David attacked is NOT the Engineer's capital, not their Coruscant. It was literally the place "the Engineer came from" to use Shaw's words of what she asked David to do. The place that sent the original pathogen expedition. We still don't know if the `pathogen wipe-out' of man was "authorized" by the main group of Engineers, or even if the whole thing might have been rogue. It has a skulking, and hiding feel to it. Kind of like Tora Bora. The other reason is -- didn't those Engineers not look as advanced or equipped as earlier, again more like a colony or outcpost? Bottom line, the Engineers, or some are now saying `Makers' main world is still out there. We know an Engineer's ship with the pathogen crashes on Acheron to become the original `Alien' set.--- is that a fossilized David having been "shot down" by Engineer warships???

Spoiler part aside, we must remember that Dallas and Lambert did not examine super closely the fossilied `jockey' in the Engineer's suit. Could it be David and not an Engineer at all? If David really wiped out the Maker colony that created the pathogen, that means only those ships on the Prometheus world still have stocks of it, as well as David himself. Ergo, the `jockey' may be David himself. The reason I say this is we now know David, not the Maker-Engineers, created the egg-variant with the face-hugger. Only his ship would have them. Alternatively, it is indeed ancient, a `try at Earth' was actually made earlier, and some happy event caused it to crash. I am just having trouble believing the world in Covenant is the Engineer capital. And the more I think about it -- we saw that David, with his knowledge and study, specifically created the horror variant we see in `Alien' classic. Unless maybe David revived an earlier design. Am I missing something?