Any time.

And space crews with cowboy hats are cliche.

Titan,

Those are intriguing ideas and parallel to a certain extent what I was thinking, although I'm not thinking that David is the space jockey we see in the original movie.

Alien Covenant is far from a perfect movie, but the more I think about it, the more I think this movie, like Prometheus before it, had some really great ideas and did a halfway-decent job of presenting them. The first two thirds of AC was awesome; the last third was not nearly as good. I think perhaps Ridley Scott forgot what gave Alien so much fright appeal, that is, not ever showing the critter except in brief flashes from different angles and perspectives up until the very end Perhaps in his defense, though, it is probably well known exactly what the alien looks like, so why not just give the audience full body shots of this thing now?

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Titan,

Those are intriguing ideas and parallel to a certain extent what I was thinking, although I'm not thinking that David is the space jockey we see in the original movie.

Yes. On rethinking, I did figure out how to explain how you would be right that it is not him -- "David's design" is not his original, but a "rip-off" of known "xenomorph plans" as it were, that he found and was working on in that evil looking medieval lab he had made. On the other hand, that is the ONLY way to explain why `Alien classic' xenomorph has the David-unique ovoid eggs container for face-huggers. If it is not an Engineer design, it seems to strongly indicate that must be a `David' Engineer ship, perhaps himself. It would be fitting indeed if he was burst and destroyed by one of his own things and crashed. Good riddance.

Alien Covenant is far from a perfect movie, but the more I think about it, the more I think this movie, like Prometheus before it, had some really great ideas and did a halfway-decent job of presenting them. The first two thirds of AC was awesome; the last third was not nearly as good. I think perhaps Ridley Scott forgot what gave Alien so much fright appeal, that is, not ever showing the critter except in brief flashes from different angles and perspectives up until the very end Perhaps in his defense, though, it is probably well known exactly what the alien looks like, so why not just give the audience full body shots of this thing now?

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One thing having a hard time getting a handle on is David's nightmare Covernant ship now ---it doesn't seem to be an issue in Alien or Aliens -- unless that is what they mean by prior experience with `bughunts'. Did some Death Star fortunately destroy whatever David had made of the Origae world, lol? It makes me wonder if the `future' timeline (our past from pov of Aliens) is changing.

titan said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Titan,

Those are intriguing ideas and parallel to a certain extent what I was thinking, although I'm not thinking that David is the space jockey we see in the original movie.

Yes. On rethinking, I did figure out how to explain how you would be right that it is not him -- "David's design" is not his original, but a "rip-off" of known "xenomorph plans" as it were, that he found and was working on in that evil looking medieval lab he had made. On the other hand, that is the ONLY way to explain why `Alien classic' xenomorph has the David-unique ovoid eggs container for face-huggers. If it is not an Engineer design, it seems to strongly indicate that must be a `David' Engineer ship, perhaps himself. It would be fitting indeed if he was burst and destroyed by one of his own things and crashed. Good riddance.

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Cinco,

Code got a little wonky, so simply separating a bit,

Quote:

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Alien Covenant is far from a perfect movie, but the more I think about it, the more I think this movie, like Prometheus before it, had some really great ideas and did a halfway-decent job of presenting them. The first two thirds of AC was awesome; the last third was not nearly as good. I think perhaps Ridley Scott forgot what gave Alien so much fright appeal, that is, not ever showing the critter except in brief flashes from different angles and perspectives up until the very end Perhaps in his defense, though, it is probably well known exactly what the alien looks like, so why not just give the audience full body shots of this thing now?

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On the last, I agree. Since he wasn't radically changing the design, there wasn't much to be gained by hiding them from view. Instead, he used our advance knowledge of how damn scary they are to just make it scary enough. Notice that he used things like:
trapping the medic in the clinic with the burster and it was new and horrible that it was already that strong and killer aggressive.That had been hinted at, but I don't recall seeing proof a burster could kill


I also found morbidly amusing the clear homage to both the original death of Brett by rear tail, and all the `Lambert' speculation about her bare legs dead in Alien -- in that shower scene with the tail. The fact that it refrained from going more cheesy from that, and simply pulled back before the attack kept it in the homage territory.

One thing having a hard time getting a handle on is David's nightmare Covernant ship now ---it doesn't seem to be an issue in Alien or Aliens -- unless that is what they mean by prior experience with `bughunts'. Did some Death Star fortunately destroy whatever David had made of the Origae world, lol? It makes me wonder if the `future' timeline (our past from pov of Aliens) is changing.

I didn't hate it...I wish it did a better job of linking Prometheus to covenant...it didn't...I happen to like the character Shaw...and it did a PISS POOR job explaining her fate...period and end of story on that.

Regarding the Shaw character Other than one briefly glimpsed image, it wasn't clear at all.What made it retroactively more clear was the sheer malevolence by which David told Daniels to her face "I did the same thing I am going to do to you". If not for that, I would be less sure. Anyone else saw the scene clearer or know?

Are you sure? I think that was an Engineer. Daniels did not react to that, but instead to the b/w watercolor that was paged through with a startled pause, but went too quick for me to be sure. It had the look of her face. But it was that watercolor that made Daniels react--not the body. Daniels turns from those water-colors with the most accusation in her.

I could be wrong, but I didn't have any doubt when watching it.

schmendeler said:

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I could be wrong, but I didn't have any doubt when watching it.

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Same...didn't second guess it

schmendeler said:

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I could be wrong, but I didn't have any doubt when watching it.

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That's the impression I had as well.

Well the question Daniel's asked seems kind of unnecessary if you have seen that? I don't know. A still from that scene would help. I am sure one one of the standing cadavers was an Engineer.

Okay.

Am I remembering right (saw it only once) that Daniels starts flipping through the Giger-esque black-and-white watercolors after inspecting the various cadavers ?

I thought it was Shaw on the table as well but I thought it was a throw back to alien resurrection where there were multiple ripley clones with grotesque malformations. This version of Shaw had some crazy boney projections on the neck. Like exaggerated transverse processes.

So I assumed David was experimenting with his only human subject over and over again...

HeardAboutPerio,

Ah-ha!

That could explain what recall best of all.She was in both places more than one lying around, and also the subject of one or two of those graytone watercolors.Okay.And lining David up as a form of that mad scientist that Brad Douriff played in Alien IV is all too appropriate.With a similar goal as that gang had

Thanks. Just something to watch with more focus second time see it.


Big Edit: The discrepancy is solved. I now even remember the scene, because had mis-identified it.
The gutted Shaw is the figure Walter, not Oram, comes across, before the flute scene. It had not clicked that it was definitely real, or Shaw, because I had been wondering if there were female Engineers, and the things on the side of the head made me think of that.The black and white watercolor is definitely her, so I got the message, just misinterpreted the most overt view and had to learn a few minutes later.You see her again here in still from the trailer.In the upper middle a bit to left.

I saw it last night. I found it pretty boring. I'll be honest, in a lot of ways, I enjoyed Prometheus more than Alien (blasphemy!!). I really didn't like Aliens - too hokey for my tastes.

I think Scott is just making it up as he goes. Clearly this whole backstory was not something he thought of when he made Alien. Alien was simple: it was a scary creature in a space horror.

I get lost with all the protomorphs, xenomorphs and all the other stuff. Where do the xenomorphs come from, is there another evolutionary step between the protomorphs and the xenomorphs? When? It's all pretty interesting but the backstory falls apart for me.

titan said:

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HeardAboutPerio,

Ah-ha!

That could explain what recall best of all.She was in both places more than one lying around, and also the subject of one or two of those graytone watercolors.Okay.And lining David up as a form of that mad scientist that Brad Douriff played in Alien IV is all too appropriate.With a similar goal as that gang had

Thanks. Just something to watch with more focus second time see it.


Big Edit: The discrepancy is solved. I now even remember the scene, because had mis-identified it.
The gutted Shaw is the figure Walter, not Oram, comes across, before the flute scene. It had not clicked that it was definitely real, or Shaw, because I had been wondering if there were female Engineers, and the things on the side of the head made me think of that.The black and white watercolor is definitely her, so I got the message, just misinterpreted the most overt view and had to learn a few minutes later.You see her again here in still from the trailer.In the upper middle a bit to left.

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I just finished reading the book of the movie (I had read every other book of the previous movies, all written by the same author, so I figured perhaps there may be additional explanation to be found there as was the case with the other books). The eviscerated figure on the table was in fact Shaw. David is described as wanting to create, to be a Creator, and has spent the 10 years since Prometheus creating all these drawings, carving the flutes, and doing genetic experimentation. It did not truly explain where the eggs came from. Aliens shows the eggs to come from a queen, but there was no queen in Covenant so I am thinking David engineered the eggs.

Like a novelization? I read the Rambo novelezation when I was a kid. I'm assuming though there was a book before the movie

Yeah, novelization. Figured I'd continue a sort-of tradition of reading the novelizations of these movies, which for me started way back in 6th grade when I bought the book of the first movie through the Scholastic order form that we always got in school.

What always amused me about that book was that in one regard, it had been edited to a PG audience. In the movie and the non-Scholastic version of the book, when Parker knocks off Ash's head, he exclaims "It's a g******m robot!" That was changed to, "It's a genuine robot!"

Great literature these books are not.

Edit - First Blood was indeed a novel before it was a movie, but neither of the sequels were

Saw it this week. I thought it was ok and can't decide if Scott is simply playing this series by ear and adding a mythos that was never really intended with the original Alien or if that was always the plan. Between Blade Runner and this, he obviously has an interest in creation paradoxes and myth.

I think the other movie tie ins are fun to contemplate as well. I assume AvP is not considered canon by Scott, so I wonder about his thoughts on the universe tie-ins to Terminator that Cameron threw in with Aliens. In the Cameron movie, the android's are products of Cyberdyne Systems and the aircraft that the Marines take to planet side is one of the same human hunting aircraft in the Terminator future.

Taking this even a crazy step further the original Cyberdyne T-800 was based on Arnold's character in Predator because he was seen as the ultimate warrior / fighter as was played out in a stand up video game.

Also, the idea of the next movie covering David and Shaw's time after Prometheus and before covenant seems really dumb to me and I have no interest in seeing that now that we know what happens.

Quote:

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Taking this even a crazy step further the original Cyberdyne T-800 was based on Arnold's character in Predator because he was seen as the ultimate warrior / fighter as was played out in a stand up video game.

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Say what? The original Terminator movie came out in 1984; Predator came out in 1987.

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Quote:

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Taking this even a crazy step further the original Cyberdyne T-800 was based on Arnold's character in Predator because he was seen as the ultimate warrior / fighter as was played out in a stand up video game.

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Say what? The original Terminator movie came out in 1984; Predator came out in 1987.

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I don't know. I saw it on the internet. It was an interesting read...and a stretch. Google it and you will probably run across it.

YouBet said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Quote:

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Taking this even a crazy step further the original Cyberdyne T-800 was based on Arnold's character in Predator because he was seen as the ultimate warrior / fighter as was played out in a stand up video game.

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Say what? The original Terminator movie came out in 1984; Predator came out in 1987.

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I don't know. I saw it on the internet. It was an interesting read...and a stretch. Google it and you will probably run across it.

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Well then, duh, it's gotta be true. I must have been living in a fantasy land back then.

I assume you mean this.

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperdyne_Systems

Max Power said:

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So I decided to give Alien: Covenant another go since it's up on HBO and it's just not good. I can't remember the last time I was so let down by a film I was so psyched for. It's really a shame Franco died before getting out of his pod, he might have been the only crew member on this ship to understand protocol because no one that came after him acted in the interest of the mission. I don't think Katherine Waterston was a good fit for Daniels. Fassbender was great though.

Ridley Scott said he wants to do 2 more to complete the franchise. One film that fills the gap between Prometheus and Covenant, and another that fills in between Covenant and Alien. Not sure how well this one did financially but I'm fairly certain it didn't break even. They really need to up their game, Alien and Aliens are two of my favorite films of all time, would like a quality film to round it out.

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I'm fairly certain you're wrong. Cost $97M to make, raked in $238M worldwide.

Not a perfect movie but I loved it and I hope the last 2 movies are green lit.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I assume you mean this.

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperdyne_Systems

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Hyperdyne, cyberdyne, potato potato

Completely agree. Aliens was the last decent film in this franchise. Classic.

I was on the treadmill tonight and it was on HBO and I had the same thought I had when I saw it in the theater. It's 100 years or so in the future and they are on inter-stellar exploration carrying the same weaponry available in 2017. That just seemed to lazy and lame to me.

Was just not a good movie. Worse than Prometheus IMO, and at least Prometheus was visually outstanding.

Do agree that Fassbender was the only thing keeping it relevant.

Urban Ag said:

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Completely agree. Aliens was the last decent film in this franchise. Classic.

I was on the treadmill tonight and it was on HBO and I had the same thought I had when I saw it in the theater. It's 100 years or so in the future and they are on inter-stellar exploration carrying the same weaponry available in 2017. That just seemed to lazy and lame to me.

Was just not a good movie. Worse than Prometheus IMO, and at least Prometheus was visually outstanding.

Do agree that Fassbender was the only thing keeping it relevant.

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If you are going to be travelling interstellar, I would want simple and basic so that maintenance and care can be handled with minimal resources.

Sure, have your primary systems all be digital and whatnot, but have analog backups for when the **** hits the fan.

Like with the guns. The basics work. Why change it up too much.
It is not like they would have laser/photon guns or something like that. Those would consume too much power and require a ridiculous power source.

Urban Ag said:

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Completely agree. Aliens was the last decent film in this franchise. Classic.

I was on the treadmill tonight and it was on HBO and I had the same thought I had when I saw it in the theater. It's 100 years or so in the future and they are on inter-stellar exploration carrying the same weaponry available in 2017. That just seemed to lazy and lame to me.

Was just not a good movie. Worse than Prometheus IMO, and at least Prometheus was visually outstanding.

Do agree that Fassbender was the only thing keeping it relevant.

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In Aliens, the marines moved around in an armored personnel carrier that rode around on basic circular things we call wheels. They carried what they called pulse rifles that seemed to work like modern rifles. Was that lazy and lame?

These movies have worked, I think, precisely because they have been grounded in a reality that appears functional, and bears at least some resemblance to things that are familiar.

Alien Covenant was a pretty good movie for the first two-thirds of it. It was well designed, beautifully photographed, and all of that. It does suffer from a cast of bland, forgettable characters, who make head-scratchingly stupid decisions (of course, Brett in the original movie did go alone searching for the chest burster).

^
I can certainly agree with that take.

David as God is basically as good at killing humans as Homer Simpson was at killing buffalo, though he took way more steps to do it.

Just watched on HBO for the first time.

What was the white, bibedal alien that Oran killed and set David off? Was it the result of the spore infecting the bearded soldier, or something else?

For some reason, I don't get the feeling David attacked the engineers to protect humanity. I could just have been reading that incorrectly, though.