Wow, that surprises me.Charpie said:
69 percent of Round Rock ISD will keep their kids home after the 1st 3 weeks of school
Reopening Schools
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Last: 4 yr ago by AustinAg2K
Charpie said:
69 percent of Round Rock ISD will keep their kids home after the 1st 3 weeks of school
Wow that is crazy. Poor kids
As one of those parents, I'm not. The plan was just dumb.
Sending kids back to school after the first three weeks to ONE classroom where they have to spend ALL day in, not being allowed going to any extra curricular class, and being forced to work on a laptop attending their classes virtually is just dumb. My daughter is better off doing that crap from home, where she can at least interact with us.
Sending kids back to school after the first three weeks to ONE classroom where they have to spend ALL day in, not being allowed going to any extra curricular class, and being forced to work on a laptop attending their classes virtually is just dumb. My daughter is better off doing that crap from home, where she can at least interact with us.
I think the suprise is having a population where 70% have single income families that can accomodate.
Not the fact that even the in-class is going to be a terrible format...
Not the fact that even the in-class is going to be a terrible format...
Good point ; I guess I'm more surprised that that many parents have capability to be home with their kids. Forgot that Round Rock is probably a more white-collar school district than most, and white collar workers are the ones at home now.
jenn96 said:
Good point ; I guess I'm more surprised that that many parents have capability to be home with their kids. Forgot that Round Rock is probably a more white-collar school district than most, and white collar workers are the ones at home now.
I don't know about our district as a whole, but I have no doubt that >90% of the kids that attend the 3 elementary schools and 1 jr high that serve my neighborhood could stay home.
That's a big part of the reason I've been so frustrated by the decisions being made - I think a lot of people (parents and administrators) have lost their perspective.
This is the attitude of many parents of MS/JH and HS kids with whom we have spoke. The health concerns are secondary to the mitigation procedures and plan. Might as well just find a pod of like minded parents or even let the kids go over to a friends house and let them work from home together.Charpie said:
As one of those parents, I'm not. The plan was just dumb.
Sending kids back to school after the first three weeks to ONE classroom where they have to spend ALL day in, not being allowed going to any extra curricular class, and being forced to work on a laptop attending their classes virtually is just dumb. My daughter is better off doing that crap from home, where she can at least interact with us.
That was a convesation we are starting to have too at my house.
I feel like my wife and i are being more flexible and having more discussions that those in charge.
Another option will be to find a few kids in the same elementary and have them go to different homes on occasion and let a single parent watch over multiple kids so the other parents can work, have a break, etc.
I feel like my wife and i are being more flexible and having more discussions that those in charge.
Another option will be to find a few kids in the same elementary and have them go to different homes on occasion and let a single parent watch over multiple kids so the other parents can work, have a break, etc.
The families with multigenerational living arrangements are going to be able to handle these in-home virtual issues better as they have more options if one or more parents needs to work. An irony considering one of the concerns many of posed is that kids may get sick at school and bringing it home to their elderly family but instead families with elderly and extended family at home may have better options for at home learning.jenn96 said:
Good point ; I guess I'm more surprised that that many parents have capability to be home with their kids. Forgot that Round Rock is probably a more white-collar school district than most, and white collar workers are the ones at home now.
A Pre-K in our neighborhood is looking to create it own pod for teachers and staff. I imagine lots of employers will offer unused office space, boardrooms, etc for parents of school age kids
tysker said:The families with multigenerational living arrangements are going to be able to handle these in-home virtual issues better as they have more options. An irony considering one of the concerns many of posed is that kids may get sick at school and bringing it home to their elderly family but instead families with elderly and extended family at home may have better options for at home learning.jenn96 said:
Good point ; I guess I'm more surprised that that many parents have capability to be home with their kids. Forgot that Round Rock is probably a more white-collar school district than most, and white collar workers are the ones at home now.
I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption. Low income multi-generational families may have extra adults at home who can keep an eye on the kids, but I wouldn't expect that many of them can actually help with virtual learning. Language barriers, health issues, and lack of experience with technology are just a few of the issues I can think of.
Heck, I'm NOT low-income, and of the two grandparents who could theoretically stay home with my kid (assuming we lived in the same geographic area), I wouldn't trust either of them to help him with his online school! One doesn't have any technology newer than a flip phone, and the other just realized what the "home button" on an iPhone is a couple Of weeks ago (her mind is going to be blown when she realizes that new iPhones don't even have a home button.
The success of virtual/online education is heavily dependent on having relatively affluent and educated parents.
Yes. It will be catastrophic for those who don't have multiple resources - time, money, engaged parents, other social interactions, etc. Especially for elementary.Quote:
The success of virtual/online education is heavily dependent on having relatively affluent and educated parents.
I didnt mean to suggest elderly family would be able to meaningfully assist with learning or the classroom experience but instead they can offer an option for parents that have to work. Luckily kids are flexible and learn quickly. I'm not sure we parents will do much better in certain situations but we're going to be tasked with it in some ways.
But more importantly:
But more importantly:
There is it. I'm glad someone is willing to admit that online/virtual learning only further hurts the already marginalizedQuote:
The success of virtual/online education is heavily dependent on having relatively affluent and educated parents.
I sit here amazed that teacher unions don't seem to realize how close they are to being replaced by a laptop, software and a babysitter.
tysker said:
I didnt mean to suggest elderly family would be able to meaningfully assist with learning or the classroom experience but instead they can offer an option for parents that have to work. Luckily kids are flexible and learn quickly. I'm not sure we parents will do much better in certain situations but we're going to be tasked with it in some ways.
But more importantly:There is it. I'm glad someone is willing to admit that online/virtual learning only further hurts the already marginalizedQuote:
The success of virtual/online education is heavily dependent on having relatively affluent and educated parents.
I've been saying that since the very beginning (maybe just not explicitly on this thread).
Being able to stay home and supervise your kids while they do online learning because schools are closed (and not suffer financially for it) is the very definition of privilege.
Hate to distract from the drum banging, but I did want to share what my family is thinking of what to do during the initial 6 week period where we will be online only at our elementary school. We will have a 1st grader and 2nd grader and we are lucky my wife does not work and is a former high school teacher.
There has been a lot of discussion about learning pods in the parent community and it looks like that's what we're going to pursue, once we understand who our teachers will be. The likely idea is that we'll have 2 other families with kids in the same grade that we do a pod with. All kids go to a different house 3 days a week and do their schooling work together. This will help encourage some of the social aspect of school and also helps spread out the load on home schooling duties for parents. And from a disease spreading perspective, it's not as wide open of interaction as school. My kids are excited about the idea.
As mentioned before, this type of option is not available to all parents, especially those with two working parents. But, if you have the ability, it's something to look into.
There has been a lot of discussion about learning pods in the parent community and it looks like that's what we're going to pursue, once we understand who our teachers will be. The likely idea is that we'll have 2 other families with kids in the same grade that we do a pod with. All kids go to a different house 3 days a week and do their schooling work together. This will help encourage some of the social aspect of school and also helps spread out the load on home schooling duties for parents. And from a disease spreading perspective, it's not as wide open of interaction as school. My kids are excited about the idea.
As mentioned before, this type of option is not available to all parents, especially those with two working parents. But, if you have the ability, it's something to look into.
A funny aspect about pods is that depending on the number of families/kids within any given pod versus the in-school population is that you and your child may have much more exposure to covid in your pod(s) compared to being in-school. Especially if you have different kids in different pods or even multiple pods.
Given Charpie's RRISD figure of 31% in-school, a normal classroom of 28 will be reduced to ~9 kids. Not much exposure there for sure.
Given Charpie's RRISD figure of 31% in-school, a normal classroom of 28 will be reduced to ~9 kids. Not much exposure there for sure.
planoaggie123 said:
I sit here amazed that teacher unions don't seem to realize how close they are to being replaced by a laptop, software and a babysitter.
Nobody thinks that will work or is the best type of teaching when conditions are optimal.
There is no clear reason for the current non-optimal scenario to change. The proposed benchmarks and standards (edit: that I've come across) to produce the previous "optimal condition" in some ways will be difficult to meet for a significant length of time, if ever. This may not be a monthly adjustment, it may go on for the rest of the calendar year, maybe the rest of the school year and forward. Accordingly we as parents have to consider that there may be a seismic shift in the way our schools function for our kids.
Honestly, I don't understand what your point is. My post never addressed the most effective pedagogical methods to teach the hard sciences. But, if you want to go there, I will oblige. Do you think effective instruction can be reduced to sit and get, mechanical applications? Effective teaching is much more than transferring knowledge from one expert to a novice regardless if it is English or calculus. I think you are truly underestimating the power of human engagement and peer to peer learning. I suggest that you review Vygotsky's notions about socialcultural theory. Learning is social. Children learn best when engaging with their peers in a complex conversation and investigation about a subject. We will never eliminate the social aspect of learning.Most students do not advocate for themselves, and they believe their voice is marginalized. They need to be encouraged to develop self-agency and that does not occur without a expert apprenticing and mentoring them. Dehumanizing education so that it is efficient and sterile is absolutely the wrong tact. I feel more than confident that I will have a job for as long as I want one. In my opinion, you took issue to the notion that I posited that if you are not in the classroom, you do not understand. I stand by this emphatically.tysker said:This post has been bothering me since yesterday.Quote:
In addition, when you use "fear" it carries a negative connotation. I contend that when you make a flawed argument valuing the head over the heart, you are failing to acknowledge that all decisions logical or not are tinged with emotion. Whether you believe that the virus creates a risk or not, the fear is real and the mitigation nightmare that awaits teachers when face-to-face instruction occurs is a cause for concern. I don't know if you have been in the classroom and recognize the complexities and challenges required to be an effective teacher. Now, add the myriad of measures that are in place to ensure the safety of everyone on campuses.
For a profession that advocates so much for STEM there are a lot of people within this profession that don't actually seem to believe in Science, Technology, Engineering or Math.
Every time someone from the non-education community questions the science or math, they are dismissed as being as being blinded by facts. Every time someone from the non-education community poses a solution using engineering or technology, they are dismissed as not understanding the needs of the classroom. If the system is so very set to teach our kids STEM, why not use the applications when it matters. Practice what youpreachteach.
Educators should feel privileged that they have an occupation that by its construction is not easily downsized, outsourced, offshored or automated. If we continue down this path your occupation will be tested just like all the others in the country have been over the last 20+ years. You can handwave all you want to the people trying to help but you're whistling past the graveyard of of the current system.
Finally, my post clearly stated that all of us need to simply acknowledge the challenges we face without dismissing our concern.
Much of your response is in direct contradiction to the proposed solutions of isolation and heightened sterility. Parents are concerned, rightfully or wrongfully, that schools were already closer to juvenile hall and daycare than facilities of learning and exceptionalism. Would you characterize the solutions by ISDs as more humanizing to students or less? Would you characterize the proposals as more social and engaging for students or less? Would you argue students will have more or less self-agency at the end of this term than in previous years? The health concerns of the teachers and staff come across as being of higher concern and importance than the mental, physical and emotional education of the students.
I'm sure you've studied all of Bonetti's defense (for the rocky terrain), Capo Ferro, Thibault and Agrippa. From Socrates' academy through Montessori's directed workflow and passion development, learning in groups isn't just important but necessary to better oneself and to challenge ones ideas. Deliberation pushes us but so does getting our hands dirty and making a mess of things. John Dewey, an advocate for problem-based or themed learning would say: "Education is not an affair of 'telling' and being told but an active and constructive process." I very much agree that education is not something we can do separate from others over the long run. Which is why it's so very important to get kids back into the classroom! (edit to comment that if I've mischaracterized Montessori or Dewey I apologize as its been a while since my Philosophy of Education class)
We will find out if children sitting physically alone in front of a computer for hours at a time produces similar educational responses as does being present in a classroom. Also we will see if pods work or other classroom formation strategies. For some classes and subjects, I think the new platforms will work fine. For others, probably not so much. However, If it becomes clear to parents and children (and taxpayers) that at-home, online or small group pod instruction (i.e. micro schools) is just as effective as the current public school classroom setup, it could drastically effect the perceived importance of schools.
I'm sure you've studied all of Bonetti's defense (for the rocky terrain), Capo Ferro, Thibault and Agrippa. From Socrates' academy through Montessori's directed workflow and passion development, learning in groups isn't just important but necessary to better oneself and to challenge ones ideas. Deliberation pushes us but so does getting our hands dirty and making a mess of things. John Dewey, an advocate for problem-based or themed learning would say: "Education is not an affair of 'telling' and being told but an active and constructive process." I very much agree that education is not something we can do separate from others over the long run. Which is why it's so very important to get kids back into the classroom! (edit to comment that if I've mischaracterized Montessori or Dewey I apologize as its been a while since my Philosophy of Education class)
We will find out if children sitting physically alone in front of a computer for hours at a time produces similar educational responses as does being present in a classroom. Also we will see if pods work or other classroom formation strategies. For some classes and subjects, I think the new platforms will work fine. For others, probably not so much. However, If it becomes clear to parents and children (and taxpayers) that at-home, online or small group pod instruction (i.e. micro schools) is just as effective as the current public school classroom setup, it could drastically effect the perceived importance of schools.
tysker, I have appreciated your contributions to this thread and the thoughtfulness of your posts. I fear we are talking around each other. Are you suggesting that I don't want to be in the classroom immediately? Please revisit any of my posts since I started this thread in April. I know that virtual learning is detrimental to student growth intellectually, socially, and emotionally. College students will be able to navigate the nuances of virtual learning. Younger students will not be able to. In addition, the biggest impact this reality will have will be on the marginalized and special needs.tysker said:
Much of your response is in direct contradiction to the proposed solutions of isolation and heightened sterility. Parents are concerned, rightfully or wrongfully, that schools were already closer to juvenile hall and daycare than facilities of learning and exceptionalism. Would you characterize the solutions by ISDs as more humanizing to students or less? Would you characterize the proposals as more social and engaging for students or less? Would you argue students will have more or less self-agency at the end of this term than in previous years? The health concerns of the teachers and staff come across as being of higher concern and importance than the mental, physical and emotional education of the students.
I'm sure you've studied all of Bonetti's defense (for the rocky terrain), Capo Ferro, Thibault and Agrippa. From Socrates' academy through Montessori's directed workflow and passion development, learning in groups isn't just important but necessary to better oneself and to challenge ones ideas. Deliberation pushes us but so does getting our hands dirty and making a mess of things. John Dewey, an advocate for problem-based or themed learning would say: "Education is not an affair of 'telling' and being told but an active and constructive process." I very much agree that education is not something we can do separate from others over the long run. Which is why it's so very important to get kids back into the classroom! (edit to comment that if I've mischaracterized Montessori or Dewey I apologize as its been a while since my Philosophy of Education class)
We will find out if children sitting physically alone in front of a computer for hours at a time produces similar educational responses as does being present in a classroom. Also we will see if pods work or other classroom formation strategies. For some classes and subjects, I think the new platforms will work fine. For others, probably not so much. However, If it becomes clear to parents and children (and taxpayers) that at-home, online or small group pod instruction (i.e. micro schools) is just as effective as the current public school classroom setup, it could drastically effect the perceived importance of schools.
My plea is that we don't condemn teachers for wanting to have a plan for returning to campus safely. It is so easy to blame teachers for the myriad of problems this crisis has caused, but we are not making the decisions. Nobody wants to be in this situation, and yes students will suffer. Of, course this is not ideal, and I hate it. I'm ready to mask up and teach, but there are so many unknowns and too many leaders not willing to have the cajones enough to make the tough decisions that justify their pay. I am "just" a teacher who has committed my life to helping students realize their fullest potential. I am not compensated enough to make the tough decisions. Consider this. Would you want to be the superintendent of a district that has a student die?
Non sequitur (sort of): I've seen fear in the faces of my students. When we have lock down drills, they are legitimately afraid. My students have asked me many times, "What would happen if a shooter broke down the door?" My response has and will always be, "He chose the wrong classroom." I believe fully that I would take a bullet to protect my students. I want to now. Let's get back to work.
Also off topic, I wish they'd stop doing lockdown drills. Have one for the teachers, but reinforcing the the idea of shooting up the school is a dumb idea IMO
I agree totally.GAC06 said:
Also off topic, I wish they'd stop doing lockdown drills. Have one for the teachers, but reinforcing the the idea of shooting up the school is a dumb idea IMO
We actually had a real lockdown on my campus six years ago. We were in lockdown for four hours because there was an apparent shooter. I later learned that students were using trashcans to relieve themselves. The lockdown occurred during my conference period, so I had no students. I positioned myself to the left of the door against the wall. Little did I know that the lock to my door did not work. When the sheriff's department conducted their sweep of classrooms, a deputy opened my classroom and took several steps in front of me with his assault rifle drawn. I was at his six about six feet away when he turned and pointed his rifle at me. He hesitated, took a deep breath, and lowered his weapon. I've never been at the business end of a rifle before. I will never forget the look of terror he had when he realized I was a teacher. I was holding my badge up as he turned. This is the reality we live in.
GAC06 said:
Also off topic, I wish they'd stop doing lockdown drills. Have one for the teachers, but reinforcing the the idea of shooting up the school is a dumb idea IMO
Same with fire and tornado drills.
My school doesn't do lockdown drills, but I agree, fire and tornado drills are a waste of time.
https://thetexan.news/after-austin-isd-delays-in-person-classes-ymca-to-provide-virtual-learning-support-at-aisd-campuses/
I just can't with this. So, it's not safe for AISD to open schools, but it's safe to let the YMCA operate child-care at schools they have leased from AISD. From 715 am- 630 pm. For $195/week per child.
I just can't with this. So, it's not safe for AISD to open schools, but it's safe to let the YMCA operate child-care at schools they have leased from AISD. From 715 am- 630 pm. For $195/week per child.
COVID is the first virus to be transmitted by the impartation of knowledge.
It attacks large brains full of knowledge.
If you want to be in the classroom and believe online learning is detrimental to children, are willing to take a stand against ISD requiring virtual mandates? How about social distancing and mask requirements that can cause unnecessary mental and emotional fatigue, confusion and fear (not unlike lockdown drills). I am unable to understand how the current 'safety' proposals square with providing the best education to students especially given the science, data and knowledge we have gained over the last several months. I think some have admitted fear has taken hold even in the face of data. That is not how science works and it's unfortunate that fear is being promoted, even advocated, by the same people and system that we have asked to teach our kids how to use and understand science, analytical thinking and fact-based decision making.
Clearly many want to be in the classroom but it kind of comes across that they will do so only in the manner preferable to themselves, not in a way the best suits the needs and development of the students. Believe me when I say, I appreciate your efforts and passion and I completely understand you are not in charge of the framework and are working within limited choices. Poor choices at that. However, the system and leadership doesn't appear to be putting the educational needs of the students first and any business or organization that has employees putting themselves ahead of its clients is easily corrupted and ultimately doomed to fail.
Clearly many want to be in the classroom but it kind of comes across that they will do so only in the manner preferable to themselves, not in a way the best suits the needs and development of the students. Believe me when I say, I appreciate your efforts and passion and I completely understand you are not in charge of the framework and are working within limited choices. Poor choices at that. However, the system and leadership doesn't appear to be putting the educational needs of the students first and any business or organization that has employees putting themselves ahead of its clients is easily corrupted and ultimately doomed to fail.
I believe rojo and others on this forum want to be in school and want what's best for our kids.
I think there is some over-reliance by teachers on "safety" that most people in other industries have had to already deal with. Kids are low transmitters seems to be fairly certain. It's easier for teachers to avoid other adults than most of us.
Teachers need to be more vocal and demanding.
Parents need to be more vocal and demanding
I told my wife this may be the first time in my life I protest.
I think there is some over-reliance by teachers on "safety" that most people in other industries have had to already deal with. Kids are low transmitters seems to be fairly certain. It's easier for teachers to avoid other adults than most of us.
Teachers need to be more vocal and demanding.
Parents need to be more vocal and demanding
I told my wife this may be the first time in my life I protest.
The optics of that YMCA plan are just bad, especially for teachers.
No YMCA staff member is going to make what a teacher makes.
So, once again, the risk and responsibility of dealing with this virus is being passed down to lower-paid, minimum-wage workers. It's class warfare.
No YMCA staff member is going to make what a teacher makes.
So, once again, the risk and responsibility of dealing with this virus is being passed down to lower-paid, minimum-wage workers. It's class warfare.
It shows that people will work where required as required.
Unfortunately we have a spineless governor who is allowing teachers to work from home so why wouldn't they???
Unfortunately we have a spineless governor who is allowing teachers to work from home so why wouldn't they???
Quote:
If you want to be in the classroom and believe online learning is detrimental to children, are willing to take a stand against ISD requiring virtual mandates?
planoaggie123 said:
It shows that people will work where required as required.
Unfortunately we have a spineless governor who is allowing teachers to work from home so why wouldn't they???
At least one of the districts in my area is requiring teachers to come to school, even if they are doing virtual/online teaching. They can't do it from home.
But it's more than that. It's not just about who wants to work and who doesn't.
It's about who we (and by "we", I mean society as a whole) expect to put themselves at higher risk and keep working so that the rest of us aren't "inconvenienced".
It's not acceptable to put teachers at risk, but it is acceptable to put YMCA staff at risk. The implication is that it's ok because the YMCA staff are less educated and lower paid.
I know people who want schools to be kept closed but have gotten on a plane to get the heck out of TX for the summer. So, it's expected that flight attendants will put themselves at risk, but it's unacceptable to ask teachers to do the same.
Dealing with the virus has come at a great cost to a lot of people, but it's clear to me that a disproportionate share of that cost is being pushed onto the people who can least afford it. And that really upsets me.
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