Reopening Schools

222,921 Views | 2236 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by AustinAg2K
P.U.T.U
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Wylie ISD is giving the option of at school or distance. They said 70% of parents said they wanted in school learning. As of right now lunch will still be held in the cafeteria
rojo_ag
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Superintendent for my district sent out an email informing parents they will have two options for next year (obviously subject to change).

Option 1: Five days a week full-time in-person traditional learning on campus, with heightened hygiene and disinfection protocols.
Option 2: Full-time remote learning.

Looks like many districts in Texas have decided the hybrid model would be a challenge. Also, I have not heard about extracurricular activities and participation. He will provide more information next week regarding what "heightened hygiene and disinfection protocols" mean.

We also have had a little bit of information regarding sick leave and personal days. It looks we will receive 14 days for Covid related absences (quarantine, infected, exposed, child care) before we use our personal or sick days. This leave is provided through the CARES Act. There may be exceptions for the percentage of pay one will receive when taking the 14 days.
tylercsbn9
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rojo_ag said:

Superintendent for my district sent out an email informing parents they will have two options for next year (obviously subject to change).

Option 1: Five days a week full-time in-person traditional learning on campus, with heightened hygiene and disinfection protocols.
Option 2: Full-time remote learning.

Looks like many districts in Texas have decided the hybrid model would be a challenge. Also, I have not heard about extracurricular activities and participation. He will provide more information next week regarding what "heightened hygiene and disinfection protocols" mean.

We also have had a little bit of information regarding sick leave and personal days. It looks we will receive 14 days for Covid related absences (quarantine, infected, exposed, child care) before we use our personal or sick days. This leave is provided through the CARES Act. There may be exceptions for the percentage of pay one will receive when taking the 14 days.



That's great to hear with regards to the extra days for COVID19.

Hope my wife's district does the same. I worry since it's the third biggest in the state. Also hope we get those same two options. Full in person or full remote seems like the best to provide parents two workable choices. These options of going every other day just seem like a nightmare logistically.
Keegan99
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3rd Generation Ag
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Not really because we can and I have stayed out of all of the above mentioned places. So have almost all of my fellow English department teachers. I have not been inside a grocery, pharmacy, or big box store since late February. I have eaten in an eatery ONCE at a table far removed from anyone else back when they were at 50 percent the first time. I have been inside an empty Brahms to get bread and milk three times since February, and had my hair done once with masks. That is my total putting myself at risk. Even the APs are using shipt to get things.

A non teacher just does not get how many parents will just give the kids cough medicine and fever reducer and just sick kids to school. Most first year teachers spend a ton of time out sick.

What we are wanting is safety precautions that OTHER businesses are required to have. Temp checks, masks on older kids, and hand sanitizer regularly available. We normally have to buy it if we want it in our classrooms, but it is really hard to find now. My kids even without covid go through a giant bottle frequently. Hopefully they will change the timings but with four minutes between classes and a line for the girls at least to use the bathrooms, and a policy to not let them out of class for same, there simply is not ample time to wash hands so we go through tons of the stuff.

And we want some kind of financial protection for all those 14 day quarantines we will have to sit out every time we have one of our 180 or so kids test positive.

I felt really secure about returning to school when I thought those things would be in place. We are required by the current teaching standards to be in close contact with our students all through the class. That is how we teach today,,we faciltiate while they explore and work in groups. But with no health screening, no masks, and no good cleanliness standards, it is going to be really rough to get through the year. And day care centers are having a marked increase in cases, so even young kids can get it.
aggierogue
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Our district (around 20k students) released parent and teacher surveys.

Slightly more than 50 percent of teachers want online learning. 43 percent of parents want online only learning.

As a teacher, I am disappointed. My choice was to be back in my classroom with heightened safety precautions.
Knucklesammich
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I took the Survey in my ISD to send my kids back full time. I believe the risks of keeping them home across the system far outweigh the risks of sending them back to school.

Speaking to my retired teacher of a mother (44 years) she said it best, "I think back to all the kids whose only meal was the free breakfast and lunch. All the kids who were in abusive home I don't know how keeping them cooped up at home isn't going to be worse"

My mother in law (72 year old elementary school teacher with just short of 40 years in the classroom) who chose to come back for 1-2 more years because she didn't feel right leaving an inexperienced team behind shared similar feedback.

The science is pretty clear, the social ramifications are clear to me. I know it's scary but education is about the most essential field in normal times. That hasn't changed.
3rd Generation Ag
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I agree, but I am amazed that they are not putting any safeguards in place. I am 71 with 38 years, but really need two more years to get my low paying central texas school off my record.
Keegan99
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SpringAg92
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I hear you 3rd Generation. I still have several years until retirement, but I am one of the older teachers in my building and am quite concerned. Many of my fellow teachers are feeling quite anxious as well. Too many unknowns.

I understand the parents who want and need their children to go back. 60% of the parents In the district where I teach responded to our survey and want all online. Some teachers will be needed to facilitate online learning. I don't think that will be an option for me as I'm a visual arts teacher. Not quite sure if art is even going to be an option this Fall.

I suppose I have to trust the district to take care of all of us. I have not heard how that will be done...so I'm not there yet.

As far as free breakfasts and lunches go - our district offers that to all students. They pick up days of food at a time.
culdeus
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I think from watching the way things unfolded in summer camps has me thinking this will be an utter disaster.

There is nearly no thought into how you should protect teachers from the virus, or how to manage extended sustained absences or lack of subs.

I mean what sub are you gonna get to go into a contaminated case with contacted kids, lol good luck.
Bonfired
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culdeus said:

I think from watching the way things unfolded in summer camps has me thinking this will be an utter disaster.

There is nearly no thought into how you should protect teachers from the virus, or how to manage extended sustained absences or lack of subs.

I mean what sub are you gonna get to go into a contaminated case with contacted kids, lol good luck.


Not only that, but just think about some of the things we do just by instinct that we may have to reconsider. For instance, helping someone with an assignment in class. Kind of hard to discreetly assist from 6' away, provided those mandates are in place. I'm used to going to their desk and quietly helping.

Plus other things...
* Do I have to screen kids' temperature every period?
* Do I have to have extra masks on hand if a kid blows a giant snotwad into theirs?
* I have a class set of graphing calculators. Do I have to wipe them all down between class periods? Not having them available isn't an option at times.
* Library: What is the cleaning protocol going to be for books that get removed from a shelf, thumbed through and then put back? I don't think that risk of transmission is very high that way, but I never underestimate the ability of a school board to put completely unfeasible mandates in place, either.
* Buses: Do you have an aide on every bus to enforce social distancing? The driver can't drive and monitor keep-away simultaneously.
* One that has weighed on me some: What constitutes a proper mask? Does a face shield count? Given my choice, if I'm going to be forced to wear one or the other to be in a classroom, I'd rather wear a welder's helmet sort of thing. Easier air flow and my voice won't be muffled. When I'm in the store, my nose starts running inside my mask within a few minutes, and my glasses repeatedly fog up. I detest the damn things.

I am anticipating a lot of frustration this coming year.
planoaggie123
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I don't know for sure but to me I would think the entire class either gets tested or has to co-quarantine and thus no subs for "infected" classrooms.
SpringAg92
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I'm also wondering who they will find to take those sub jobs. Most of our substitutes are retired teachers.
tylercsbn9
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planoaggie123 said:

I don't know for sure but to me I would think the entire class either gets tested or has to co-quarantine and thus no subs for "infected" classrooms.
There's zero point of even opening schools if we have to basically send kids home if just one in the class gets the sniffles from COVID. All that will do it just make parents not get their kids tested unless they actually show symptoms beyond a simple fever or cough.
et98
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Education for the masses can't exist unless it's face-to-face. As a teacher, I value education more than anything else. The mortality rate of Covid is statistically insignificant. I don't believe in sacrificing the education of a generation for the safety of 2% of their grandparents...and those very same grandparents agree. If we don't ignore Covid and proceed with education as we always do, we will essentially be squandering this generation's education for no real reason.
nai06
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Greg Abbott dropped this gem a few days ago.
https://abc13.com/amp/when-does-school-start-texas-schools-virtual-classes-gov-abbott-education/6295266/

TL;DR
Abbott says be prepared for students to be at home if things don't start trending downwards
3rd Generation Ag
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Sorry this grandparent teaches AND wants to live a little longer.

One or two semesters does NOT sacrifice a generation's education. First of all, teachers can catch kids up if the state will stay out of our way with time lost to state testing. Get this mess over and in a year kids will be caught up. Older kids like juniors and seniors need the big events they would miss, and that is what I teach, but they really have learned most of what they need already. That is why so many of them move into dual credit classes by those two year.

And like above, I have a chrome cart for kids to share all day...and would need a protocol for disinfecting between classes. But then who monitors the halls?

And where will teh subs come. If my second period has a case and is sent home, I have six other groups of kids who would need a teacher.

I am so hoping this has spiked and is headed way down by mid August.

My son tried to get the school to let my granson just repeat kinder for what he missed this year and they said no. So if first is in any way struggle or an in and out year, they are prepared to fight to just have him do the year over.
planoaggie123
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tylercsbn9 said:

planoaggie123 said:

I don't know for sure but to me I would think the entire class either gets tested or has to co-quarantine and thus no subs for "infected" classrooms.
There's zero point of even opening schools if we have to basically send kids home if just one in the class gets the sniffles from COVID. All that will do it just make parents not get their kids tested unless they actually show symptoms beyond a simple fever or cough.
So what do you propose?

No school?

If 1 kid in a room has it, just have him quarantine at home and the rest of the class just goes about as normal and only send others home as they develop symptoms / test positive?
tommyjohn
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My thing about school is if not now then when?

Online for August? Then what happens in January? Send everyone back at the peak of flu season + COVID?

Crap or get off the pot. Give people an option for online open the schools back up and state your procedure for handling a positive case. People can make their own decision from there.

A 14 day quarantine for a positive test is not possible. You will just have to shut it down again in a few weeks.

Kids will get sick and they will get better. It happens all the time.
tylercsbn9
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planoaggie123 said:

tylercsbn9 said:

planoaggie123 said:

I don't know for sure but to me I would think the entire class either gets tested or has to co-quarantine and thus no subs for "infected" classrooms.
There's zero point of even opening schools if we have to basically send kids home if just one in the class gets the sniffles from COVID. All that will do it just make parents not get their kids tested unless they actually show symptoms beyond a simple fever or cough.
So what do you propose?

No school?

If 1 kid in a room has it, just have him quarantine at home and the rest of the class just goes about as normal and only send others home as they develop symptoms / test positive?
This kid with the sniffles stays home. The rest go to school. If a parent is worried they keep their kid home to learn online.The seasonal flu is more dangerous to kids than this and we don'e go through quarantine and **** for when a kid in school gets the flu.
culdeus
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Not sure what the toughest issue(s) are to solve, trying to list them here.

  • How to manage substitute teaching where school continues while a teacher is recovering. Main issue being the students had contact with the teacher, and you are asking someone to enter that environment. This seems unrealistic.

  • What caseload, or situation would cause school to be shut down/cancelled for a period of time? Is it student based or teacher based?

  • What are the requirements for a student to return post positive test? If they show no symptoms will they join online programs? Or just sit it out?

  • High.School.Football. How? One proposal is move this to the spring. This makes the most sense.

  • If the idea is to keep kids somewhat in homerooms how do you mange selected classes like foreign languages and clubs/extracurricular?

  • After school programs. How?
planoaggie123
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Ok i am 100% on board. I didnt check your post history (maybe should have) to see where you stand.

I initially was for the quarantine of classes (quasi what we do here at my work) but honeslty as I think through it more I am 100% ok with the COVID kid staying home and everyone else continuing...
rojo_ag
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tommyjohn said:

My thing about school is if not now then when?

Online for August? Then what happens in January? Send everyone back at the peak of flu season + COVID?

Crap or get off the pot. Give people an option for online open the schools back up and state your procedure for handling a positive case. People can make their own decision from there.

A 14 day quarantine for a positive test is not possible. You will just have to shut it down again in a few weeks.

Kids will get sick and they will get better. It happens all the time.
What you are suggesting is for a fundamental shift in how we are responding to this virus. For districts to treat this infection and disease like any normal sickness, governments at all levels will need to admit that we have "lost" the battle and will be resigned to fact that at least 70% will be infected within 2 years. Since the risk is for most minimal, we will stomach a small percentage of people requiring hospitalizations and a handful even dying.

Extreme mitigation strategies such as shutting down schools for outbreaks, quarantining students, faculty, and staff after exposure for 14 days, limiting classes sizes, enforcing masking compliance, ensuring social distancing, eating in the classroom, creating one way hallways, staggering passing periods, keeping students in one class all day, and many others that have been suggested will sadly be ineffective. Many of us are going to be sick.

At the national level and state level, leaders have to admit that we are waving the white flag. For true traditional school to happen in the fall, we will have to take the regular precautions that we take for a flu outbreak: stay home when sick, wash hands often, and use hand sanitizer. We will no longer attempt to slow the spread.

Now, what evidence have you seen that leads you to believe that our leaders and the general public will support this?
planoaggie123
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rojo_ag said:

tommyjohn said:

My thing about school is if not now then when?

Online for August? Then what happens in January? Send everyone back at the peak of flu season + COVID?

Crap or get off the pot. Give people an option for online open the schools back up and state your procedure for handling a positive case. People can make their own decision from there.

A 14 day quarantine for a positive test is not possible. You will just have to shut it down again in a few weeks.

Kids will get sick and they will get better. It happens all the time.
What you are suggesting is for a fundamental shift in how we are responding to this virus. For districts to treat this infection and disease like any normal sickness, governments at all levels will need to admit that we have "lost" the battle and will be resigned to fact that at least 70% will be infected within 2 years. Since the risk is for most minimal, we will stomach a small percentage of people requiring hospitalizations and a handful even dying.

Extreme mitigation strategies such as shutting down schools for outbreaks, quarantining students, faculty, and staff after exposure for 14 days, limiting classes sizes, enforcing masking compliance, ensuring social distancing, eating in the classroom, creating one way hallways, staggering passing periods, keeping students in one class all day, and many others that have been suggested will sadly be ineffective. Many of us are going to be sick.

At the national level and state level, leaders have to admit that we are waving the white flag. For true traditional school to happen in the fall, we will have to take the regular precautions that we take for a flu outbreak: stay home when sick, wash hands often, and use hand sanitizer. We will not longer attempt to slow the spread.

Now, what evidence have you seen that leads you to believe that our leaders and the general public will support this?
The government has shown to be pretty amazing at changing the story / narrative to fit whatever it needs. I see no reason they cannot do it again...
amercer
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And that's why nobody (at least in public schools) will be going in the fall.

It's a failure of leadership at the national level, and an unfortunate side effect of our decentralized system.

You know why other countries are back in school? Because people believe the government both when they say "wear a mask" AND "it's not very dangerous for kids".
River Bass
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Quote:

What you are suggesting is for a fundamental shift in how we are responding to this virus. For districts to treat this infection and disease like any normal sickness, governments at all levels will need to admit that we have "lost" the battle and will be resigned to fact that at least 70% will be infected within 2 years.........
.........At the national level and state level, leaders have to admit that we are waving the white flag.

Losing what battle?
The goal all along was avoid overwhelming the medical system.
We have been successful in that goal and I think we can continue to be successful with some common sense practices.
The virus wont go away if we do online learning.
Everyone will come into contact with COVID 19. Its not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when". With the advances that we have made I see no reason to keep kicking the can down the road.
amercer
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If they kick the can until next March, you can get the vaccine (probably)

I'm not advocating for that approach, but the longer this goes on, the more reasonable that will seem. If we are doing online school for the fall it wouldn't make much sense to send the kids back in Jan if the vaccine is just around the corner.
culdeus
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River Bass said:

Quote:

What you are suggesting is for a fundamental shift in how we are responding to this virus. For districts to treat this infection and disease like any normal sickness, governments at all levels will need to admit that we have "lost" the battle and will be resigned to fact that at least 70% will be infected within 2 years.........
.........At the national level and state level, leaders have to admit that we are waving the white flag.

Losing what battle?
The goal all along was avoid overwhelming the medical system.
We have been successful in that goal and I think we can continue to be successful with some common sense practices.
The virus wont go away if we do online learning.
Everyone will come into contact with COVID 19. Its not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when". With the advances that we have made I see no reason to keep kicking the can down the road.


Instead of thinking of the impact this has on kids, shift the focus to teachers. Anyone who follows this thing for 30 seconds knows the risk to kids is near zero.

We've already lost 700+ medical professionals to this, how many teachers are you willing to sacrifice? How many teachers died doing distance learning?

How many before teachers simply walk off the job? Texas does not have a strong teacher union, but other states do and they are taking note of this "not if but when" stuff and they aren't going for it.

River Bass
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Daycares have been open now for a long time.
They do temp checks for every kid entering the building.

When they discover a positive case for a student inside the school then that one person quarantines for 14 days and the school closes for 2-3 days for cleaning.

If that student has had contact with a positive case outside of the school then the student quarantines for 14 days, but the school does not close.

Our day care has not had to close yet in the last 8 weeks or so.
I see no reason that public schools cant follow the same program for a couple of months.

Eventually they may find that its not even necessary to close for 2-3 days.
River Bass
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Quote:

Instead of thinking of the impact this has on kids, shift the focus to teachers. Anyone who follows this thing for 30 seconds knows the risk to kids is near zero.

We've already lost 700+ medical professionals to this, how many teachers are you willing to sacrifice? How many teachers died doing distance learning?

How many before teachers simply walk off the job? Texas does not have a strong teacher union, but other states do and they are taking note of this "not if but when" stuff and they aren't going for it.
I have to go to work in my industry.
I work for a construction company and each of our job sites has hundreds of workers that have to show up each day.
Police, fire fighters, doctors, nurses, mail carriers, auto mechanics, manufacturing employees, grocery store workers, etc. etc. all have to take the risk and go to work each day to keep our nation running.

Why are teachers exempt from this risk?
rojo_ag
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River Bass said:

Quote:

What you are suggesting is for a fundamental shift in how we are responding to this virus. For districts to treat this infection and disease like any normal sickness, governments at all levels will need to admit that we have "lost" the battle and will be resigned to fact that at least 70% will be infected within 2 years.........
.........At the national level and state level, leaders have to admit that we are waving the white flag.

Losing what battle?
The goal all along was avoid overwhelming the medical system.
We have been successful in that goal and I think we can continue to be successful with some common sense practices.
The virus wont go away if we do online learning.
Everyone will come into contact with COVID 19. Its not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when". With the advances that we have made I see no reason to keep kicking the can down the road.

I'm glad we both agree. I put "lost" in quotations, but perhaps I was unclear. Even our president said at one time the he was a wartime president. We have often used war rhetoric during this pandemic. Many people see this is a battle to slow or stop the spread.
culdeus
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River Bass said:

Quote:

Instead of thinking of the impact this has on kids, shift the focus to teachers. Anyone who follows this thing for 30 seconds knows the risk to kids is near zero.

We've already lost 700+ medical professionals to this, how many teachers are you willing to sacrifice? How many teachers died doing distance learning?

How many before teachers simply walk off the job? Texas does not have a strong teacher union, but other states do and they are taking note of this "not if but when" stuff and they aren't going for it.
I have to go to work in my industry.
I work for a construction company and each of our job sites has hundreds of workers that have to show up each day.
Police, fire fighters, doctors, nurses, mail carriers, auto mechanics, manufacturing employees, grocery store workers, etc. etc. all have to take the risk and go to work each day to keep our nation running.

Why are teachers exempt from this risk?
Because there is no requirement for the job to be conducted in person.
culdeus
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River Bass said:

Daycares have been open now for a long time.
They do temp checks for every kid entering the building.

When they discover a positive case for a student inside the school then that one person quarantines for 14 days and the school closes for 2-3 days for cleaning.

If that student has had contact with a positive case outside of the school then the student quarantines for 14 days, but the school does not close.

Our day care has not had to close yet in the last 8 weeks or so.
I see no reason that public schools cant follow the same program for a couple of months.

Eventually they may find that its not even necessary to close for 2-3 days.

Daycares are for all intents 0 risk. You can't even get a firm figure on the kids under 5 data because HIPPA rules are tight when you can't count the cases on one hand.

Apples/Oranges.

The point where things start to get dicey is probably 8th grade. Somewhere between 8th and 10th grade for sure you can actually manifest an outbreak. Below that there's truly no risk at all, yet for some reason we continue to treat the level of risk as equal from 0 to 21.
P.U.T.U
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Trained educators do a much better job of training in person than virtual for elementary aged kids. With many parents going back to work virtual will not be an option for a lot of them since they have to leave for their jobs. I like the option of in person or virtual, especially with those with high risk individuals in the family.

I know a lot of people that have not missed a day of being at work due to being "essential". With several countries not stopping in class education for kids elementary aged with no outbreaks in kids or adults is something we need to study more to get their practices implemented in our schools.

Waiting for a vaccine is overly optimistic, there is zero guaranty we will ever have one. We still miss with current vaccines with viruses with multiple strains.
 
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