wangus12 said:

---

zgolfz85 said:

---

YouBet said:

---

We were not athleted and we are not out skilled. We simply **** the bed on the biggest stage and did not show up.

We played other teams Belgium has played equal or better than they did. There is not that big of a drop off from our R32 to R16 quality.

Three of those goals were practically own goals because our players just went totally brain dead.

The problem is way more due to mental prep than anything physical. For whatever reason, we weren't mentally ready and that was 100% plain as day.

---

100%. It's being overthunk by most. We laid an egg. The fact we weren't mentally prepared makes me think the Balogun drama played a role.....because alternatively, I just can't picture a world where Poch wouldn't have these guys mentally prepared. The R32 game and R16 games from a mental perspective shouldn't have been monumentally different. Maybe the March friendly played into it as well, as well as the unfortunate history we've had against Belgium. But, more than anything, we just laid an egg. It was our random 30 point loss in a 7 game NBA playoff series. Just outta nowhere.

---

Id also add the other side of the coin. Belgium have looked bang average this tournament. Hell, Trossard and Teilemans nearly fought each other on the fieldbin their last match. But the whole Balogun thing made them all rally around what they feel is a massive grievance by FIFA and by the USA. I think that one thing made them lock in on the one thing they wanted to do to correct that which was whoop our ass. We handed them all the ammunition they needed to finally get their **** together

---

It's obviously impossible to know what would have happened if Balogun wasn't in the squad, or just on the bench. But part of the post mortem for US Soccer has to analyze how and why they were complicit if not encouraging of the conditions and events which turned that story into a front page scandal.

I think it's normal for sports teams to largely quietly appeal issues to their league, but it seems US Soccer was quite happy to accept "outside help" which inevitably was going to make the story blow up.

Danny Vermin said:

---

This is just horse****. There's not one team in any professional sport who wouldn't want one of their best players to be able to play . Period.

---

Yeah, that's not what I said.

YouBet said:

---

We were not athleted and we are not out skilled. We simply **** the bed on the biggest stage and did not show up.

We played other teams Belgium has played equal or better than they did. There is not that big of a drop off from our R32 to R16 quality.

Three of those goals were practically own goals because our players just went totally brain dead.

The problem is way more due to mental prep than anything physical. For whatever reason, we weren't mentally ready and that was 100% plain as day.

---

I don't know. Maybe it's all of the above. We don't have someone that can go toe to toe with a Leandro Trossard, for example, on technical ability with both feet. And we can't go to our bench and pull on a Jeremy Doku and Romelu Lukaku who combine high athleticism with pretty high skill.

And a final thought: Too many American kids who play soccer don't ever watch soccer, in large part because their families don't watch or go to games.

Soccer is an activity, not a passion.

Being a professional athlete these days requires a lot of family support. The era of kids raised by grandma becoming a pro have to a large extent slipped away. We see this even in the NFL, where top players increasingly come from athletic, two-parent families.

Dads are critical in pushing young athletes and making the sport a priority, and lots of American dads hate soccer and call it gay.

That's not a recipe for success in player development.

TXAggie2011 said:

---

wangus12 said:

---

zgolfz85 said:

---

YouBet said:

---

We were not athleted and we are not out skilled. We simply **** the bed on the biggest stage and did not show up.

We played other teams Belgium has played equal or better than they did. There is not that big of a drop off from our R32 to R16 quality.

Three of those goals were practically own goals because our players just went totally brain dead.

The problem is way more due to mental prep than anything physical. For whatever reason, we weren't mentally ready and that was 100% plain as day.

---

100%. It's being overthunk by most. We laid an egg. The fact we weren't mentally prepared makes me think the Balogun drama played a role.....because alternatively, I just can't picture a world where Poch wouldn't have these guys mentally prepared. The R32 game and R16 games from a mental perspective shouldn't have been monumentally different. Maybe the March friendly played into it as well, as well as the unfortunate history we've had against Belgium. But, more than anything, we just laid an egg. It was our random 30 point loss in a 7 game NBA playoff series. Just outta nowhere.

---

Id also add the other side of the coin. Belgium have looked bang average this tournament. Hell, Trossard and Teilemans nearly fought each other on the fieldbin their last match. But the whole Balogun thing made them all rally around what they feel is a massive grievance by FIFA and by the USA. I think that one thing made them lock in on the one thing they wanted to do to correct that which was whoop our ass. We handed them all the ammunition they needed to finally get their **** together

---

It's obviously impossible to know what would have happened if Balogun wasn't in the squad, or just on the bench. But part of the post mortem for US Soccer has to analyze how and why they were complicit if not encouraging of the conditions and events which turned that story into a front page scandal.

I think it's normal for sports teams to largely quietly appeal issues to their league, but it seems US Soccer was quite happy to accept "outside help" which inevitably was going to make the story blow up.

---

Listen to the podcast that was posted earlier in the thread. They go through several points including there not being any official "bad redcard" appeal process, and not to blame the player or anyone affiliated directly with U.S. Soccer.

rich1232 said:

---

TXAggie2011 said:

---

wangus12 said:

---

zgolfz85 said:

---

YouBet said:

---

We were not athleted and we are not out skilled. We simply **** the bed on the biggest stage and did not show up.

We played other teams Belgium has played equal or better than they did. There is not that big of a drop off from our R32 to R16 quality.

Three of those goals were practically own goals because our players just went totally brain dead.

The problem is way more due to mental prep than anything physical. For whatever reason, we weren't mentally ready and that was 100% plain as day.

---

100%. It's being overthunk by most. We laid an egg. The fact we weren't mentally prepared makes me think the Balogun drama played a role.....because alternatively, I just can't picture a world where Poch wouldn't have these guys mentally prepared. The R32 game and R16 games from a mental perspective shouldn't have been monumentally different. Maybe the March friendly played into it as well, as well as the unfortunate history we've had against Belgium. But, more than anything, we just laid an egg. It was our random 30 point loss in a 7 game NBA playoff series. Just outta nowhere.

---

Id also add the other side of the coin. Belgium have looked bang average this tournament. Hell, Trossard and Teilemans nearly fought each other on the fieldbin their last match. But the whole Balogun thing made them all rally around what they feel is a massive grievance by FIFA and by the USA. I think that one thing made them lock in on the one thing they wanted to do to correct that which was whoop our ass. We handed them all the ammunition they needed to finally get their **** together

---

It's obviously impossible to know what would have happened if Balogun wasn't in the squad, or just on the bench. But part of the post mortem for US Soccer has to analyze how and why they were complicit if not encouraging of the conditions and events which turned that story into a front page scandal.

I think it's normal for sports teams to largely quietly appeal issues to their league, but it seems US Soccer was quite happy to accept "outside help" which inevitably was going to make the story blow up.

---

Listen to the podcast that was posted earlier in the thread. They go through several points including there not being any official "bad redcard" appeal process, and not to blame the player or anyone affiliated directly with U.S. Soccer.

---

I'm aware. But you also just posted about the difficulty of putting the toothpaste in the tube or whatever you said.

They just crapped the bed in the most important game they've ever played. They absolutely need to consider ever equity of that situation and analyze how they could have advocated for Balogun's return without maximizing the distraction and "ammunition" to Belgium, to steal Wangus' term.

EclipseAg said:

---

And a final thought: Too many American kids who play soccer don't ever watch soccer, in large part because their families don't watch or go to games.

Soccer is an activity, not a passion.

Being a professional athlete these days requires a lot of family support. The era of kids raised by grandma becoming a pro have to a large extent slipped away. We see this even in the NFL, where top players increasingly come from athletic, two-parent families.

Dads are critical in pushing young athletes and making the sport a priority, and lots of American dads hate soccer and call it gay.

That's not a recipe for success in player development.

---

Pay to play is putting every American sport under pressure where there is serious international interest and participation.

Showstopper said:

---

I mean, it may be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but if FIFA had an appeal process that was like the Premier League's…. I would expect the card to stand. I thought it could have gone either way and shouldn't have been VAR'ed, but he did catch him high, and once the match decision was to issue a card, I wouldn't expect it to be reversed. And the disciplinary committee did ultimately confirm the card, but suspended enforcement of the suspension, which is frankly odd (although FIFA does bend over backwards to feature Messi and Ronaldo, Balogun isn't Messi or Ronaldo, he's the guy who couldn't pass Eddie Nketieh at Arsenal, let's be a little real).

---

I think it was an unlucky, unfortunate orange card and I think you're right that a normal review process is not overturning it.

But at the same time, since FIFA has not explained its decision and we don't have access to VAR audio and video or anything like that, maybe it is a bit hard to fully analyze

TXAggie2011 said:

---

rich1232 said:

---

TXAggie2011 said:

---

wangus12 said:

---

zgolfz85 said:

---

YouBet said:

---

We were not athleted and we are not out skilled. We simply **** the bed on the biggest stage and did not show up.

We played other teams Belgium has played equal or better than they did. There is not that big of a drop off from our R32 to R16 quality.

Three of those goals were practically own goals because our players just went totally brain dead.

The problem is way more due to mental prep than anything physical. For whatever reason, we weren't mentally ready and that was 100% plain as day.

---

100%. It's being overthunk by most. We laid an egg. The fact we weren't mentally prepared makes me think the Balogun drama played a role.....because alternatively, I just can't picture a world where Poch wouldn't have these guys mentally prepared. The R32 game and R16 games from a mental perspective shouldn't have been monumentally different. Maybe the March friendly played into it as well, as well as the unfortunate history we've had against Belgium. But, more than anything, we just laid an egg. It was our random 30 point loss in a 7 game NBA playoff series. Just outta nowhere.

---

Id also add the other side of the coin. Belgium have looked bang average this tournament. Hell, Trossard and Teilemans nearly fought each other on the fieldbin their last match. But the whole Balogun thing made them all rally around what they feel is a massive grievance by FIFA and by the USA. I think that one thing made them lock in on the one thing they wanted to do to correct that which was whoop our ass. We handed them all the ammunition they needed to finally get their **** together

---

It's obviously impossible to know what would have happened if Balogun wasn't in the squad, or just on the bench. But part of the post mortem for US Soccer has to analyze how and why they were complicit if not encouraging of the conditions and events which turned that story into a front page scandal.

I think it's normal for sports teams to largely quietly appeal issues to their league, but it seems US Soccer was quite happy to accept "outside help" which inevitably was going to make the story blow up.

---

Listen to the podcast that was posted earlier in the thread. They go through several points including there not being any official "bad redcard" appeal process, and not to blame the player or anyone affiliated directly with U.S. Soccer.

---

I'm aware. But you also just posted about the difficulty of putting the toothpaste in the tube or whatever you said.

They just crapped the bed in the most important game they've ever played. They absolutely need to consider ever equity of that situation and analyze how they could have advocated for Balogun's return without maximizing the distraction and "ammunition" to Belgium, to steal Wangus' term.

---

My comment was in regards to the wasted time, effort, energy and preparation for one set of variables only to be told to disregard all of that work and pivot 180 degrees for a new set of variables.

We were clearly not talented enough or mentally tough enough to handle that, who knows how much of the outside noise compounded itself on to the strictly competitive logistics if it all.

There isn't a scenario where what you're advocating for can actually exist. There is no formal appeal process, outside of us benching our own player who was cleared to play by the powers that be, which is going to create its own noise.

EclipseAg said:

---

One factor that is overlooked in the whole exhausting "best athletes" discussion is that many young players self-select out of soccer in 7th grade to play football, then wind up quitting football after 8th grade because they realize they don't like getting beat to hell by kids who have matured earlier and/or are far bigger than them.

Then they never go back to soccer because after two years, they've fallen way behind their peers who kept playing. Some of those kids just might have developed into real players.

---

Absolutely this.

TXAggie2011 said:

---

EclipseAg said:

---

And a final thought: Too many American kids who play soccer don't ever watch soccer, in large part because their families don't watch or go to games.

Soccer is an activity, not a passion.

Being a professional athlete these days requires a lot of family support. The era of kids raised by grandma becoming a pro have to a large extent slipped away. We see this even in the NFL, where top players increasingly come from athletic, two-parent families.

Dads are critical in pushing young athletes and making the sport a priority, and lots of American dads hate soccer and call it gay.

That's not a recipe for success in player development.

---

Pay to play is putting every American sport under pressure where there is serious international interest and participation.

---

baseball is significantly cheaper than soccer to play, which is wild given the equipment needs in Baseball is A LOT more.

TXAggie2011 said:

---

Showstopper said:

---

I mean, it may be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but if FIFA had an appeal process that was like the Premier League's…. I would expect the card to stand. I thought it could have gone either way and shouldn't have been VAR'ed, but he did catch him high, and once the match decision was to issue a card, I wouldn't expect it to be reversed. And the disciplinary committee did ultimately confirm the card, but suspended enforcement of the suspension, which is frankly odd (although FIFA does bend over backwards to feature Messi and Ronaldo, Balogun isn't Messi or Ronaldo, he's the guy who couldn't pass Eddie Nketieh at Arsenal, let's be a little real).

---

I think it was an unlucky, unfortunate orange card and I think you're right that a normal review process is not overturning it.

But at the same time, since FIFA has not explained its decision and we don't have access to VAR audio and video or anything like that, maybe it is a bit hard to fully analyze

---

Maybe you haven't seen it, but they issued this:

https://media.fifa.com/en/tournaments/mens/fwc2026/news/statement-from-the-chairperson-of-the-fifa-disciplinary-committee-6-july-2026

I took this to mean they confirmed the card:
3. On 5 July 2026, the FIFA Disciplinary Committee found Balogun guilty of both infringements, imposed a one-match suspension (suspended on probation for one year) and a USD 40,000 fine, and notified the parties of the decision.
(I mean, if you want the underlying evidence, that's fine, but we do have them confirming the result).

Showstopper said:

---

TXAggie2011 said:

---

Showstopper said:

---

I mean, it may be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but if FIFA had an appeal process that was like the Premier League's…. I would expect the card to stand. I thought it could have gone either way and shouldn't have been VAR'ed, but he did catch him high, and once the match decision was to issue a card, I wouldn't expect it to be reversed. And the disciplinary committee did ultimately confirm the card, but suspended enforcement of the suspension, which is frankly odd (although FIFA does bend over backwards to feature Messi and Ronaldo, Balogun isn't Messi or Ronaldo, he's the guy who couldn't pass Eddie Nketieh at Arsenal, let's be a little real).

---

I think it was an unlucky, unfortunate orange card and I think you're right that a normal review process is not overturning it.

But at the same time, since FIFA has not explained its decision and we don't have access to VAR audio and video or anything like that, maybe it is a bit hard to fully analyze

---

Maybe you haven't seen it, but they issued this:

https://media.fifa.com/en/tournaments/mens/fwc2026/news/statement-from-the-chairperson-of-the-fifa-disciplinary-committee-6-july-2026

I took this to mean they confirmed the card:
3. On 5 July 2026, the FIFA Disciplinary Committee found Balogun guilty of both infringements, imposed a one-match suspension (suspended on probation for one year) and a USD 40,000 fine, and notified the parties of the decision.

---

We get fined for an unintentional foul? I would tell them to pound sand.

EclipseAg said:

---

And a final thought: Too many American kids who play soccer don't ever watch soccer, in large part because their families don't watch or go to games.

Soccer is an activity, not a passion.

Being a professional athlete these days requires a lot of family support. The era of kids raised by grandma becoming a pro have to a large extent slipped away. We see this even in the NFL, where top players increasingly come from athletic, two-parent families.

Dads are critical in pushing young athletes and making the sport a priority, and lots of American dads hate soccer and call it gay.

That's not a recipe for success in player development.

---

Someone else brought this up, but this is where more USL teams being created could help. There are now multiple lower cost options to see professional soccer with the family, like the new stadium in mansfield

YouBet said:

---

Showstopper said:

---

TXAggie2011 said:

---

Showstopper said:

---

I mean, it may be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but if FIFA had an appeal process that was like the Premier League's…. I would expect the card to stand. I thought it could have gone either way and shouldn't have been VAR'ed, but he did catch him high, and once the match decision was to issue a card, I wouldn't expect it to be reversed. And the disciplinary committee did ultimately confirm the card, but suspended enforcement of the suspension, which is frankly odd (although FIFA does bend over backwards to feature Messi and Ronaldo, Balogun isn't Messi or Ronaldo, he's the guy who couldn't pass Eddie Nketieh at Arsenal, let's be a little real).

---

I think it was an unlucky, unfortunate orange card and I think you're right that a normal review process is not overturning it.

But at the same time, since FIFA has not explained its decision and we don't have access to VAR audio and video or anything like that, maybe it is a bit hard to fully analyze

---

Maybe you haven't seen it, but they issued this:

https://media.fifa.com/en/tournaments/mens/fwc2026/news/statement-from-the-chairperson-of-the-fifa-disciplinary-committee-6-july-2026

I took this to mean they confirmed the card:
3. On 5 July 2026, the FIFA Disciplinary Committee found Balogun guilty of both infringements, imposed a one-match suspension (suspended on probation for one year) and a USD 40,000 fine, and notified the parties of the decision.

---

We get fined for an unintentional foul? I would tell them to pound sand.

---

Intent isn't necessary for a red card. It sounds like maybe you just don't like the rules, which is fine. Not everyone has to like everything.

Edit: I think the $40K, to the extent that upsets you, was for coming back on the pitch at the end for the celebration after the red. I don't really care about that.

Showstopper said:

---

TXAggie2011 said:

---

Showstopper said:

---

I mean, it may be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but if FIFA had an appeal process that was like the Premier League's…. I would expect the card to stand. I thought it could have gone either way and shouldn't have been VAR'ed, but he did catch him high, and once the match decision was to issue a card, I wouldn't expect it to be reversed. And the disciplinary committee did ultimately confirm the card, but suspended enforcement of the suspension, which is frankly odd (although FIFA does bend over backwards to feature Messi and Ronaldo, Balogun isn't Messi or Ronaldo, he's the guy who couldn't pass Eddie Nketieh at Arsenal, let's be a little real).

---

I think it was an unlucky, unfortunate orange card and I think you're right that a normal review process is not overturning it.

But at the same time, since FIFA has not explained its decision and we don't have access to VAR audio and video or anything like that, maybe it is a bit hard to fully analyze

---

Maybe you haven't seen it, but they issued this:

https://media.fifa.com/en/tournaments/mens/fwc2026/news/statement-from-the-chairperson-of-the-fifa-disciplinary-committee-6-july-2026

I took this to mean they confirmed the card:
3. On 5 July 2026, the FIFA Disciplinary Committee found Balogun guilty of both infringements, imposed a one-match suspension (suspended on probation for one year) and a USD 40,000 fine, and notified the parties of the decision.
(I mean, if you want the underlying evidence, that's fine, but we do have them confirming the result).

---

I did not see the full release. Thanks.

Yeah, I guess I mean they did not point to anything except the vague "this is consistent with our principles" rather than give any specific reason as to why this warranted extraordinary action.

Showstopper said:

---

YouBet said:

---

Showstopper said:

---

TXAggie2011 said:

---

Showstopper said:

---

I mean, it may be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but if FIFA had an appeal process that was like the Premier League's…. I would expect the card to stand. I thought it could have gone either way and shouldn't have been VAR'ed, but he did catch him high, and once the match decision was to issue a card, I wouldn't expect it to be reversed. And the disciplinary committee did ultimately confirm the card, but suspended enforcement of the suspension, which is frankly odd (although FIFA does bend over backwards to feature Messi and Ronaldo, Balogun isn't Messi or Ronaldo, he's the guy who couldn't pass Eddie Nketieh at Arsenal, let's be a little real).

---

I think it was an unlucky, unfortunate orange card and I think you're right that a normal review process is not overturning it.

But at the same time, since FIFA has not explained its decision and we don't have access to VAR audio and video or anything like that, maybe it is a bit hard to fully analyze

---

Maybe you haven't seen it, but they issued this:

https://media.fifa.com/en/tournaments/mens/fwc2026/news/statement-from-the-chairperson-of-the-fifa-disciplinary-committee-6-july-2026

I took this to mean they confirmed the card:
3. On 5 July 2026, the FIFA Disciplinary Committee found Balogun guilty of both infringements, imposed a one-match suspension (suspended on probation for one year) and a USD 40,000 fine, and notified the parties of the decision.

---

We get fined for an unintentional foul? I would tell them to pound sand.

---

Intent isn't necessary for a red card. It sounds like maybe you just don't like the rules, which is fine. Not everyone has to like everything.

---

Yeah, I'm aware but then getting fined on top of it is b.s. if it doesn't factor intent.

So, yes, I don't like that rule. Thanks for giving me permission?

oh no said:

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wangus12 said:

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oh no said:

---

Enrico Pallazzo said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

---

Yeah, I'd agreem but we gotta get the kids into the system right around their fish year in high school. And not a glorified club team with a licensed logo. A real, actual professional development system focused on player, skill and knowledge development over wins and losses.

---

MLS is doing this and it starts earlier. But it's still relatively new (in the grand scheme). We're seeing some players come out of it.

---

it's tough though. one of my sons played on a USDA team in it's final years and played with a bunch of players that moved over to MLS Next Plus academy teams after DA went under. He had a teammate whose whole family moved from Laredo to Houston just be on the DA team, then the kid made the Austin FC MLS academy so the whole family moved to Austin. Then the kid got cut the next year because Austin FC brought in some teenagers from Argentina and Chile. Even if that kid had made it to the level of making a youth international team, he would have chosen Mex over USA anyway. I think most of Houston Dynamo's MLS Next + teams would choose Mexico.

---

Will never happen, but MLS should implement home grown quotas like England does. They require a certain amount of players on pro teams to be English. Require especially the MLS academy systems to develop mostly American youth players rather than international

---

i think they have that.. there is a limit to designated players in MLS.. but the challenges remain.

---

They limited DPs but thats not necessarily foreign vs domestic

I think the 40K is for coming back on the pitch for the celebration after he was excluded by the red card. That was the second violation. Not really a big deal (easy for me to say, he'd probably say)

Edit: it is 50/50 for the card and then the celebration… my bad. I still don't care. If you are really upset about the money… you care more about the fines than me I guess.

My kid went to football in 7th grade because there isn't a soccer class in jr high and he didn't want to be in regular PE class. He kept up club soccer for a few years while playing football at school. Loves both sports, but spring of 8th grade, he was in offseason workouts for football and prepping for 7v7 football summer season, while playing club soccer at an elite travel level, on the state ODP soccer team, and playing on the school's soccer team. It was too much and he ended up with a fractured vertebrae from all the pounding after multiple concussions from soccer and none from football. Football had cheerleaders, pep rallies, and locker room camaraderie that club soccer cannot come close to replicating, plus frustrating politics at the club, plus a grueling training and match schedule that prevents a social life. In the end, he was happy going thru high school playing school football and school soccer, making deep 6A playoff runs in both as well as winning state in football 7v7 and had a lot of fun, but it's hard to do both even without club soccer. The elite soccer development slowed but he was still plenty good enough to play on varsity for multiple years on the school team. Can't do both in most of the country because they're both fall sports for school, but in Texas with a spring season for soccer, it was possible if working with coaches and counselors to change his schedule every spring.

The culture and popularity and experience has to change for soccer to make it more worthwhile and beyond a counter culture for more really good athletes to want to stay and develop in soccer. …and i don't see it happening enough. It's a unique thing that boys just have to really love doing.

Both your thoughts are spot on, though I think your second one has gotten a lot better over the past 10-15 years.


Lost in the best athlete argument is the fact that Big 3 sports (particularly football and basketball) prioritize height. So there's a ton of 5'9" guys who could be really good at soccer who play absolutely no sports past high school.

The American Messi isn't playing pro football or basketball right now. He's playing nothing. He wrecked shop in football or basketball until high school and then was simply too small to keep playing.

AgLiving06 said:

---

EclipseAg said:

---

One factor that is overlooked in the whole exhausting "best athletes" discussion is that many young players self-select out of soccer in 7th grade to play football, then wind up quitting football after 8th grade because they realize they don't like getting beat to hell by kids who have matured earlier and/or are far bigger than them.

Then they never go back to soccer because after two years, they've fallen way behind their peers who kept playing. Some of those kids just might have developed into real players.

---

Absolutely this.

---

and we don't have coaches that recognize this and then have an avenue for sending kids into soccer. that would be ginormous if we did. I got sized out of basketball in 8th/9th grade, but definitely had the athleticism to play soccer and a way more appropriate size. It wasn't even an option for me back then. Ultimately got sized out of football at the end too.

Some of y'all need to get out more. Go to a country like Brazil or Argentina or England and watch an academy practice there. It will be a revelation, a sobering one, though, when you see how far behind the US is in relation to other countries' soccer academies. I mentioned it before being cultural but when you can see with your own eyes the difference between the US and soccer-first countries, it hits home. We will never be a consistent top 10 soccer country because our youth don't live, eat, breath and bleed soccer. And that's fine but we have to adjust our expectations. Belgium was a technically superior team across all 11 players. That happens because their players are developed properly from a very young age (5 years old in many instances). We can compete against top 25 teams and win consistently against teams outside the top 25 but to be competitive against the very best, our players have to be technically developed from the outset, and that isn't happening in our domestic academies. I'll suggest that starts and ends with USSF.

honestly, it wouldn't take much. Put free or sponsor academies in the inner city regions of NYC, Chicago and LA....and we'd have our own golden generation in 3 WC cycles.

Landon and Tim discuss the game and other issues surrounding the USMNT. In the first segment, they discuss Pulisic and it was brutal. They reviewed how he has been in poor form leading up to the world cup. They also talked about his inability to show up in the big games. They said there were rumors has asked to be subbed out and neither could understand that mentality.

PatAg said:

---

oh no said:

---

wangus12 said:

---

oh no said:

---

Enrico Pallazzo said:

---

Who?mikejones! said:

---

Yeah, I'd agreem but we gotta get the kids into the system right around their fish year in high school. And not a glorified club team with a licensed logo. A real, actual professional development system focused on player, skill and knowledge development over wins and losses.

---

MLS is doing this and it starts earlier. But it's still relatively new (in the grand scheme). We're seeing some players come out of it.

---

it's tough though. one of my sons played on a USDA team in it's final years and played with a bunch of players that moved over to MLS Next Plus academy teams after DA went under. He had a teammate whose whole family moved from Laredo to Houston just be on the DA team, then the kid made the Austin FC MLS academy so the whole family moved to Austin. Then the kid got cut the next year because Austin FC brought in some teenagers from Argentina and Chile. Even if that kid had made it to the level of making a youth international team, he would have chosen Mex over USA anyway. I think most of Houston Dynamo's MLS Next + teams would choose Mexico.

---

Will never happen, but MLS should implement home grown quotas like England does. They require a certain amount of players on pro teams to be English. Require especially the MLS academy systems to develop mostly American youth players rather than international

---

i think they have that.. there is a limit to designated players in MLS.. but the challenges remain.

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They limited DPs but thats not necessarily foreign vs domestic

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There are limited foreign roster spots as well. You're allocated I believe 8 per team and those slots can be traded as well.

Worth noting that international players in MLS often get a green card after a few years, thus no longer taking up an international slot.

zgolfz85 said:

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Put free or sponsor academies in the inner city regions of NYC, Chicago and LA...

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nothing is free. who is paying for that?

MLS academies and their MLS Next+ teams are doing it, but the pool is already so small because that's it. ...and if they start at U12 or whatever, they're scouting the players that have already invested a lot in pay to play club soccer to get to that point.

USSF probably never should have punted youth development to the MLS academies but they had to because they themselves are bankrupt.

fig96 said:

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PatAg said:

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oh no said:

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wangus12 said:

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oh no said:

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Enrico Pallazzo said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

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Yeah, I'd agreem but we gotta get the kids into the system right around their fish year in high school. And not a glorified club team with a licensed logo. A real, actual professional development system focused on player, skill and knowledge development over wins and losses.

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MLS is doing this and it starts earlier. But it's still relatively new (in the grand scheme). We're seeing some players come out of it.

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it's tough though. one of my sons played on a USDA team in it's final years and played with a bunch of players that moved over to MLS Next Plus academy teams after DA went under. He had a teammate whose whole family moved from Laredo to Houston just be on the DA team, then the kid made the Austin FC MLS academy so the whole family moved to Austin. Then the kid got cut the next year because Austin FC brought in some teenagers from Argentina and Chile. Even if that kid had made it to the level of making a youth international team, he would have chosen Mex over USA anyway. I think most of Houston Dynamo's MLS Next + teams would choose Mexico.

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Will never happen, but MLS should implement home grown quotas like England does. They require a certain amount of players on pro teams to be English. Require especially the MLS academy systems to develop mostly American youth players rather than international

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i think they have that.. there is a limit to designated players in MLS.. but the challenges remain.

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They limited DPs but thats not necessarily foreign vs domestic

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There are limited foreign roster spots as well. You're allocated I believe 8 per team and those slots can be traded as well.

Worth noting that international players in MLS often get a green card after a few years, thus no longer taking up an international slot.

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and Inter-Miami's starting/best 11 last MLS season was all foreign. Who knows what their academy teams look like, but the balance between growing the sport, making $ for the club, and developing home grown American talent might not really be in the USSF's best interest there.

carl spacklers hat said:

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Some of y'all need to get out more. Go to a country like Brazil or Argentina or England and watch an academy practice there. It will be a revelation, a sobering one, though, when you see how far behind the US is in relation to other countries' soccer academies. I mentioned it before being cultural but when you can see with your own eyes the difference between the US and soccer-first countries, it hits home. We will never be a consistent top 10 soccer country because our youth don't live, eat, breath and bleed soccer. And that's fine but we have to adjust our expectations. Belgium was a technically superior team across all 11 players. That happens because their players are developed properly from a very young age (5 years old in many instances). We can compete against top 25 teams and win consistently against teams outside the top 25 but to be competitive against the very best, our players have to be technically developed from the outset, and that isn't happening in our domestic academies. I'll suggest that starts and ends with USSF.

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The US model for developing athletes for world competition is another reason why we don't do well against in international competition.

For the Olympics, the model works because a lot of those competitions are individually based.

The basketball dream team is a great example of this and how the world ended up catching up to us. We had been sending the best NBA players to the World Championships and the Olympics only to be beaten by countries whose team rosters were filled with guys who had played with each other long enough to have established team chemistry. Once the NBA committed to sending players that had been playing for longer than one tournament, we started consistently winning again.

We send the best players in their designated sport rather than sending the best team to compete. I believe Mauricio Pochettino was trying to change some of this thinking.

The pay for play system is also hurting the sport big time.

And lastly, the US as a country doesn't really care for futbol as much as it care about football. Right now there are hundreds of shows and podcasts breaking down the NFL and NCAA seasons and we're still roughly 2 months away from the start of their seasons. I just don't see how that's going to change any time soon, but the interest level in US soccer needs to increase more so than just throw money at the situation hoping that it leads to success.

So, while most of the US fans are disappointed with the outcome, it will become a footnote to their hopes of a Super Bowl/NCAA championship for their favorite team in the next few weeks.

tboag said:

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Bag said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

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Hey...so.. um said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

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SECcess12 said:

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Soccer also doesn't require "our best athletes" playing for us to be extremely competitive. You think world class players all look like (insert any elite athlete for NFL/NBA)? They don't.

That is a tired and very lazy excuse. Would it help? Sure, but until our midfield stops turning it over 20 times against a better team, or our defense can clear a ball from the box, it doesn't matter who is playing.

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Its part of a larger argument. We need more high level kids choosing soccer over other sports. Just more volume. To say it is not a problem is ignorant.

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We have about 5 times the volume of 15u players compared to Belgium based on a quick ChatGPT search. 150k to 30k. I don't think volume is the issue.

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Yeah, but that 5x volume doesn't include some of our most gifted young athletes that instead chose football, basketball or baseball and a lot of the one there are because they can afford it.

You'll never convince me that a kid like achane choosing soccer instead of football and then growing up in that wouldn't be a huge upgrade over jsut abiut anyone we have today

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Exactly. Our best players (though no fault of their own) are chasing the sports that pay the big bucks and gets the big spotlight.

I'd bet that most, if not all, of our soccer team could more or less walk anywhere in the US without being noticed or recognized. Even after this world cup.

Tack on the pay disparity and it's really not a touch decision.

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i think it was pretty clear we didnt get out athleted last night, we got drilled by a fundamentally sound team that just stuck to the plan and let us self destruct

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Their tactic, skill was MILES better. Athletically we are fine. We just aren't skilled. At all

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Hard to argue against this. Way too many passes out of bounds, wrong speed/touch, wrong timing, the guy that missed controlling the chip from Adams in the box.

I think those two teams could play 10 times and USA would be fortunate to win 1.

Someone else brought it up earlier, but you have to have marquee player. Balogun doesn't count. He doesn't have to be Messi, but you need a guy that wills your team to wins and at times can be borderline unstoppable.

Norway is doing well with primarily just a really good CAM, CF, and GK. ...but they're going to run into an England squad in which 24 of 26 players are in the EPL and the other two are Kane and Bellingham at two of the biggest clubs in the world. Let's see what happens. but you can make it far if you have that king ding-a-ling like Norway and a really good GK.

Look at USMNT's quarterfinal run in 2002 where they hung with and could have beaten Germany.. young Landon Donovan and a really good GK in Friedel. We didn't have near the developed roster depth we have now, but made it further.

Really massive disappointment performance by Freese, Ream, Pulisic especially last night. but Freese and Ream being in our best 11 is sort of an indictment on the whole thing.