***** Official United States of America vs Belgium World Cup 2026 Thread *****

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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to GIF Reactor • 8:57a, 7/7/26
GIF Reactor said:
Great discussion.

You need a field, a ball, and 2 goals. No pads, no helmet, no bats or gloves for every player, no indoor court. You don't need 10 coaches on staff. You don't need wireless microphones to communicate with your other coaches in the press box.

Why is soccer so expensive in the US?



Because people pay for it? Have you heard that investment firms are buying up youth sports arenas and leagues because they create so much profit. There's a stort out there of a firm buying up a hockey arena in the north east that won't allow parents to take pictures of their kids playing. You want a photo you gotta pay for their photographer to take the picture.

Youth sports is just another squeeze
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Milwaukees Best Light
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In reply to GIF Reactor • 8:58a, 7/7/26
AG
GIF Reactor said:
Great discussion.

You need a field, a ball, and 2 goals. No pads, no helmet, no bats or gloves for every player, no indoor court. You don't need 10 coaches on staff. You don't need wireless microphones to communicate with your other coaches in the press box.

Why is soccer so expensive in the US?


Development and coaching. You can only go so far if your coach is also the JV basketball coach, training with the baseball catcher, and playing against the girls team. The good coaches want to be paid and right now that means that the parents of the players have to pay it. In other countries the big club is helping to subsidize the coaches salaries. The big clubs use these development programs to find their next players, so they are incentivized to find and develop players. They are also using the lower levels to grow their future coaches. That means you get a young motivated coach, not some players dad.

These academies are competitive so the weaker kids get weeded out early, so you are playing with better talent and training with better talent, not just the kids with parents who can afford the team.
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Hey...so.. um
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 9:00a, 7/7/26
Who?mikejones! said:
SECcess12 said:
Soccer also doesn't require "our best athletes" playing for us to be extremely competitive. You think world class players all look like (insert any elite athlete for NFL/NBA)? They don't.

That is a tired and very lazy excuse. Would it help? Sure, but until our midfield stops turning it over 20 times against a better team, or our defense can clear a ball from the box, it doesn't matter who is playing.


Its part of a larger argument. We need more high level kids choosing soccer over other sports. Just more volume. To say it is not a problem is ignorant.


We have about 5 times the volume of 15u players compared to Belgium based on a quick ChatGPT search. 150k to 30k. I don't think volume is the issue.
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Dirt 05
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In reply to fig96 • 9:02a, 7/7/26
AG
Ream didn't need to be on the field - he was directly involved giving up ass on all four of belgium's goals and definitely should have been benched after giving up the first header. He was the only player that looked like he absolutely didn't belong-though wasn't the only one to have a bad night. The team played sloppy and on their heels last night - terrible passing - and then late no one even attempting to make runs into space.

Bemoaning the differences in talent development vs. Europe and LATAM is off in my opinion - we're 12 years removed from the 2018 disaster and clearly developing talent - just a piece or two off from being able to punch through to the next round.
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Bag
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 9:06a, 7/7/26
AG
Who?mikejones! said:
GIF Reactor said:
Great discussion.

You need a field, a ball, and 2 goals. No pads, no helmet, no bats or gloves for every player, no indoor court. You don't need 10 coaches on staff. You don't need wireless microphones to communicate with your other coaches in the press box.

Why is soccer so expensive in the US?



Because people pay for it? Have you heard that investment firms are buying up youth sports arenas and leagues because they create so much profit. There's a stort out there of a firm buying up a hockey arena in the north east that won't allow parents to take pictures of their kids playing. You want a photo you gotta pay for their photographer to take the picture.

Youth sports is just another squeeze

this. its just a grift, parents are easy targets, youth volleyball, baseball, soccer, basketball, football, its all one big grift, fed by parents believing little johnny has was it takes
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oh no
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9:06a, 7/7/26
AG
There's a lot wrong with our system and how your rank or apply a weighting to each contributing factor is subjective. How you prioritize trying to fix them and whether some of them can even be fixed is debatable.

- pay to play is a problem that visibly hurts our soccer development internationally while similar personal expense doesn't visibly hurt us in baseball (even if it truly does) because we don't really have the opposition internationally in baseball to compete with. Little johnny whose mom & dad paid +$40k over the last 5 years for private pitching coaches and private speed & agility coaches and select club travel ball going against some poor kids from Dominican Republic is rare and is different than little johnny club soccer playing against a Mexican side. It just is.

- competition with other sports that have scholarship opportunities in case (when) the sport doesn't work out weeds boys in our country out earlier. Moms and dads will spend so many thousands more per year on baseball when there are more professional opportunities and more scholarship opportunities available. Title IX means most colleges don't have men's soccer.

- even if we did have more scholarships for boys, 1) many of those scholarships will go to foreigners and 2) the international competition has their top talent on professional tracks with constant development in the most crucial formative years for skill development- not going to class.

- we only only have one somewhat viable tier of domestic professional opportunities. MLS clubs have youth academies and bring in young talent on a professional track and do occasionally end up promoting "home grown" talent to the first team. But our international competition has multiple professional leagues spanning multiple tiers so there are a lot more opportunities for the talented youth players to stay with it- like baseball here.

- making things worse for that one domestic professional league we have, it's waning in popularity. Celebrities and wealthy people buy partial ownership in them as tax offsets because they lose money. No one watches MLS because most matches are on a higher subscription tier on Apple TV+ only.

- jurgen klinsmann attempted to bridge the vast geographical expanse here with a lot of organization from US Soccer Federation to develop a youth development academy. High standards for clubs to have a DA team, sponsorship / money / investment, and detailed national programming for all clubs nationwide to implement or incorporate into their DA teams by birth year / age group with tournaments and showcases that made it easier for USSF to scout nationwide. When they pull players from across the country in for USYNT camps, they already have the tactical awareness that US soccer expects. Well, USSF is bankrupt and broken politically, so several years ago, they got rid of the DA. They depend on MLS academies to develop players in all different systems and they rely on MLS Next showcases for scouting. Problem is that MLS academies are getting more and more full of foreign players and the MLS first teams are mostly foreign designated players. They have different priorities that don't align with USSF.

- the politics in youth leagues are a disgusting political fuster cluck. Besides MLS Next academies, there are US Club Soccer leagues whose top tier is ECNL and US Youth Soccer leagues whose top tier is something else and includes state ODP teams. They all have their own showcases and tournaments and all have to be scouted separately. They are all in all major cities and they fight with each other, clubs poach coaches from each other, clubs switch leagues, clubs merge and divest with each other and they're all expensive.

I can keep going, but these are some of the biggest factors.

ETA another big factor. Soccer culture is a counter culture here. When the best U14 boys soccer players get to high school here, they can play in club and school soccer games where some moms and dads are cheering.. or they can play football where there are pep rallies, homecoming festivities, the entire town in the stands on friday night, cheer leaders in short skirts, etc. etc. etc. To stick with club soccer through high school, when there are such few professional and scholarship opportunities, you just have to love it.
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South Platte
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In reply to zgolfz85 • 9:10a, 7/7/26
zgolfz85 said:
the fix is NIL. NIL for youth soccer to scout, sponsor and promote the best youth talent. If the USSF figures that out, we're a legit WC title contender within 2-3 cycles.

I love the USMNT and have been obsessed since the 94 cycle. That fire really started raging after 2002. While it's been really fun to be a rare underdog as Americans in a sport, I was really looking forward to finally making a QF and hopefully closing the underdog chapter forever. I think we all thought we were there. Last night is so devastating because now we don't know. Was it a one game fluke? Did we get Paraguay at their worst? Was Australia beating Turkiye a fluke? Just so frustrating. Honestly kept me up most of the night. Heck, TAMU football losses don't even do that.

I commend you for your interest in the MNT, that's quite a long run. Until essentially our starting lineup plays meaningful minutes for EPL, top La Liga, Ligue 1, etc., we are a long way off.

As someone who doesn't follow American soccer but follows the EPL pretty well, I recognize many of the Belgian players. And then of course world class keeper Courtois with RM.

I don't blame the players for last night. Not the keeper for the atrocious blunder, or Ream for getting shoved to the ground by a skinny striker. These guys laid it out there the best they could. They're just nowhere near good enough.

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AgLiving06
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 9:13a, 7/7/26
Who?mikejones! said:
Our culture is youth sports->high school->college->pro. Relatively low cost with the best player moving to the next level based on takeng

It's a merit based system, or has been for most of its life. The pay to play element has been there for a long time but maybe only the last 20 years in earnest.

Europe/world basically takes the best kids from high school onward in to professional organizations.

Baseball is the most similar here, or was, with it being open to high end high school graduates at 18. But, even that is a late start for euro/world soccer.

I cannot foresee the united states ever creating a program where kids as young as 12 or 13 are pulled into professional development programs ala Europe in enough numbers to make much a difference.

So we've got to figure out a way to interrupt the youth sports-> college conveyor belt and its probably right there between youth sports and high school. It cannot happen without discovery fees or a substantial developmental league.

But, what's the incentive for a family to choose that route?


Again, my kids are in elementary, so I'm blending my youth vs what I know of theirs.

High School soccer (think like 1990's/early 2000) NEVER dictated anything about player success. It was really just a fun break from club and I was on a team that made 5A state finals.

Club soccer was how I got scholarship offers, and where I got good. The high school coach was far more a reminder of the old coach who fell into the job and simply just followed the positioning of the club teams.

------
But is youth soccer merit based? No it's not. It's money based. Outside of the most extreme cases, any kid, whether they've played soccer or not, could join a "youth academy" team if their $2,000 check clears.

My sons team was in 7v7 league and they had 14 players at the high point, with a bench consisting of kids who were "just trying out soccer." Had no experience or talent, but did have money.

That's not merit based.

We did play a Pre-ECNL team, and they weren't materially better. Their strength was their bench didn't have the drop off that our bench had, and that was the difference in the game. But as I said, to get to that team (and 3 practices/week), parents are dropping $3,000 per year. That just seems ridiculous.


So is it merit based? Sure in the sense they can identify the better players. But are those better players receiving the best coaching? The best playing together? Only if the check clears.
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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to Hey...so.. um • 9:14a, 7/7/26
Hey...so.. um said:
Who?mikejones! said:
SECcess12 said:
Soccer also doesn't require "our best athletes" playing for us to be extremely competitive. You think world class players all look like (insert any elite athlete for NFL/NBA)? They don't.

That is a tired and very lazy excuse. Would it help? Sure, but until our midfield stops turning it over 20 times against a better team, or our defense can clear a ball from the box, it doesn't matter who is playing.


Its part of a larger argument. We need more high level kids choosing soccer over other sports. Just more volume. To say it is not a problem is ignorant.


We have about 5 times the volume of 15u players compared to Belgium based on a quick ChatGPT search. 150k to 30k. I don't think volume is the issue.


Yeah, but that 5x volume doesn't include some of our most gifted young athletes that instead chose football, basketball or baseball and a lot of the one there are because they can afford it.

You'll never convince me that a kid like achane choosing soccer instead of football and then growing up in that wouldn't be a huge upgrade over jsut abiut anyone we have today
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zgolfz85
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In reply to AgRyan04 • 9:16a, 7/7/26
AG
AgRyan04 said:
zgolfz85 said:
From someone on Reddit and I can't disagree. It was a distraction and honestly a gift to Belgium more than it was a gift to us. It was the definition of locker room material and something to rally around. :

"I'm just going to say it, and I don't care if I get downvoted to oblivion. The decision to let Trump lobby Gianni Infantino to suspend Folarin Balogun's red card is exactly why we just got embarrassed 4-1 by Belgium.

Think about the mental toll this put on the squad. For days, Mauricio Pochettino and the boys were preparing to play without Balogun. Ricardo Pepi had to be completely locked in. He was prepping to start in a do-or-die World Cup knockout match. Then, literally 24 hours before kickoff, FIFA magically invents a one-year "probation" loophole because of a phone call from the White House?

Imagine being Pepi. I'm sure he's a team player and happy Balogun was cleared, but getting completely rug-pulled at the eleventh hour after training as the starter all week is a massive blow to the locker room. You can't just flip a tactical switch like that the day before the Round of 16 and expect the team to be cohesive.

And then there's the absolute media circus. Instead of focusing on Belgium's defense, our guys were thrown into a massive political firestorm. The entire world was calling us corrupt. UEFA called it "incomprehensible." The Belgian FA was practically foaming at the mouth and threatening legal action. It created a massive distraction and an insane amount of unnatural pressure.

Worse, it completely tainted the vibe of the match. If we won, the victory would forever have a massive asterisk next to it. Half the internet was saying it was rigged, and I literally saw actual Americans commenting that they were rooting for Belgium just so Trump wouldn't get the credit for "saving" the tournament. You think the players didn't see that toxic noise on social media? You think that didn't mess with their heads when they stepped onto the pitch in Seattle?

We should have just taken the red card on the chin, maintained our dignity, and let Pepi cook. Instead, we turned the USMNT into a global controversy, blew our focus, and laid a massive egg on the pitch. Absolutely disgraceful way to go out."


Pepi could have prepared for a month and it wouldn't change the fact that he gets pushed around on the field like a boy among men.....he's just not strong enough to maintain possession at this level.

he lost too much weight. he gets bodied way too easily. dude needs to bulk up a bit.
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ccaggie05
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In reply to South Platte • 9:17a, 7/7/26
AG
South Platte said:
zgolfz85 said:
the fix is NIL. NIL for youth soccer to scout, sponsor and promote the best youth talent. If the USSF figures that out, we're a legit WC title contender within 2-3 cycles.

I love the USMNT and have been obsessed since the 94 cycle. That fire really started raging after 2002. While it's been really fun to be a rare underdog as Americans in a sport, I was really looking forward to finally making a QF and hopefully closing the underdog chapter forever. I think we all thought we were there. Last night is so devastating because now we don't know. Was it a one game fluke? Did we get Paraguay at their worst? Was Australia beating Turkiye a fluke? Just so frustrating. Honestly kept me up most of the night. Heck, TAMU football losses don't even do that.

I commend you for your interest in the MNT, that's quite a long run. Until essentially our starting lineup plays meaningful minutes for EPL, top La Liga, Ligue 1, etc., we are a long way off.

As someone who doesn't follow American soccer but follows the EPL pretty well, I recognize many of the Belgian players. And then of course world class keeper Courtois with RM.

I don't blame the players for last night. Not the keeper for the atrocious blunder, or Ream for getting shoved to the ground by a skinny striker. These guys laid it out there the best they could. They're just nowhere near good enough.


Unless MLS or this upcoming USL Premier ends up being on par with the top European leagues (I higly doubt it), the only real hope is for the US to focus on getting our most talented players to Europe by the time they are 18 and competing in the top leagues.

I think of the biggest things holding Mexico back from breaking out to a higher tier is that Liga MX essentially refuses to sell their players to Europe. A player like Gilberto Mora should already be at a top club in Europe. The US should learn from their mistakes.
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zgolfz85
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In reply to South Platte • 9:22a, 7/7/26
AG
South Platte said:
zgolfz85 said:
the fix is NIL. NIL for youth soccer to scout, sponsor and promote the best youth talent. If the USSF figures that out, we're a legit WC title contender within 2-3 cycles.

I love the USMNT and have been obsessed since the 94 cycle. That fire really started raging after 2002. While it's been really fun to be a rare underdog as Americans in a sport, I was really looking forward to finally making a QF and hopefully closing the underdog chapter forever. I think we all thought we were there. Last night is so devastating because now we don't know. Was it a one game fluke? Did we get Paraguay at their worst? Was Australia beating Turkiye a fluke? Just so frustrating. Honestly kept me up most of the night. Heck, TAMU football losses don't even do that.

I commend you for your interest in the MNT, that's quite a long run. Until essentially our starting lineup plays meaningful minutes for EPL, top La Liga, Ligue 1, etc., we are a long way off.

As someone who doesn't follow American soccer but follows the EPL pretty well, I recognize many of the Belgian players. And then of course world class keeper Courtois with RM.

I don't blame the players for last night. Not the keeper for the atrocious blunder, or Ream for getting shoved to the ground by a skinny striker. These guys laid it out there the best they could. They're just nowhere near good enough.


I don't agree there. I think Belgium was the more quality team and that's reflected in FIFA rankings, but I don't think we're light years apart. I think it was a combination of a bad game, as well as a major distraction with the Balogun stuff amongst a roster that follows social media more than any other team we've fielded before. It might sound like an excuse, but it makes more sense to me than these guys just forgot how to play soccer all of a sudden after looking like a very quality side all tourney.

There's more meaningful minutes than I think we give credit for. Weah is playing a lot at Marseille, obviously CP and Weston are starting in Serie A, Aaronson and Jedi are starting in PL, Tillman is playing a ton in Bundesliga, Dest is playing a lot at PSV, etc. I honestly think the Balo **** affected this team a lot more than it's being credited for.
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fig96
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 9:23a, 7/7/26
AG
Who?mikejones! said:
Hey...so.. um said:
Who?mikejones! said:
SECcess12 said:
Soccer also doesn't require "our best athletes" playing for us to be extremely competitive. You think world class players all look like (insert any elite athlete for NFL/NBA)? They don't.

That is a tired and very lazy excuse. Would it help? Sure, but until our midfield stops turning it over 20 times against a better team, or our defense can clear a ball from the box, it doesn't matter who is playing.


Its part of a larger argument. We need more high level kids choosing soccer over other sports. Just more volume. To say it is not a problem is ignorant.


We have about 5 times the volume of 15u players compared to Belgium based on a quick ChatGPT search. 150k to 30k. I don't think volume is the issue.


Yeah, but that 5x volume doesn't include some of our most gifted young athletes that instead chose football, basketball or baseball and a lot of the one there are because they can afford it.

You'll never convince me that a kid like achane choosing soccer instead of football and then growing up in that wouldn't be a huge upgrade over jsut abiut anyone we have today

Again, we didn't get out athleted last night.
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Max Power
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9:24a, 7/7/26
AG
I know there's probably plenty of the posters here that understand how the system works better than I do, and I'm sure things vary geographically, but we've seen an unintended impact of how some of this works. My daughter is 10 and we basically had to stop playing soccer because it's no longer fun for her anymore. Even at the recreational level where I live in the Midwest teams with girls like her, who just want to play for fun and have practice once a week, have to play against teams with girls who play on multiple leagues on multiple teams. These other girls play every single day, so they've left kids like my daughter far behind in skill, which I understand but the local leagues will let anyone play that pays the fee. It's not recreational soccer anymore here, it doesn't exist. Soccer was my favorite sport growing up, I loved it, and my daughter is never going to play it again. I know we're not alone in this, plenty of other girls she started playing with at 4 years old are also done with the sport now. I don't blame them, what should be a fun weekend game turned totally disheartening for the girls and the parents. There's nothing fun for you or your kid watching them get destroyed week after week, it just made me sad. Luckily she has another activity to keep her busy but I never thought when I was playing with her in the backyard she'd be done with soccer before she hit middle school.

Sorry, I didn't mean to pivot away from the topic at hand as much as I did, but it goes to show you that the families with the money to participate at a high level are contributing to an unintended consequence.
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JimJonesAg11
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In reply to byfLuger41 • 9:26a, 7/7/26
byfLuger41 said:
I'll be glad when all of the extra WC traffic leaves the soccer board(s).

The hoi polloi posts make my head hurt.

Oh, heaven forbid more people fall in love with the beautiful game. Soccer snobs are the worst.

Also, Belgium railed us in a friendly leading up to the WC and have way more talent than we do all across the pitch. I am not sure why anyone is shocked by this and even blaming Trump, lots of clown takes on this thread.
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fig96
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In reply to Dirt 05 • 9:27a, 7/7/26
AG
Dirt 05 said:
Ream didn't need to be on the field - he was directly involved giving up ass on all four of belgium's goals and definitely should have been benched after giving up the first header. He was the only player that looked like he absolutely didn't belong-though wasn't the only one to have a bad night. The team played sloppy and on their heels last night - terrible passing - and then late no one even attempting to make runs into space.

Bemoaning the differences in talent development vs. Europe and LATAM is off in my opinion - we're 12 years removed from the 2018 disaster and clearly developing talent - just a piece or two off from being able to punch through to the next round.

For better or worse Ream is one of our two best options centerbacks right now. That'll change in the next few years as McKenzie and others develop, but no one we put out there would've been an improvement. We were chasing the game against the better team all night.

Our big players didn't show up and our pool at keeper has somehow really regressed. We're at the point where it's any given Sunday against the better teams and on the right night we can beat one, but last night was the opposite of that night.
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zgolfz85
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In reply to fig96 • 9:30a, 7/7/26
AG
fig96 said:
Dirt 05 said:
Ream didn't need to be on the field - he was directly involved giving up ass on all four of belgium's goals and definitely should have been benched after giving up the first header. He was the only player that looked like he absolutely didn't belong-though wasn't the only one to have a bad night. The team played sloppy and on their heels last night - terrible passing - and then late no one even attempting to make runs into space.

Bemoaning the differences in talent development vs. Europe and LATAM is off in my opinion - we're 12 years removed from the 2018 disaster and clearly developing talent - just a piece or two off from being able to punch through to the next round.

For better or worse Ream is one of our two best options centerbacks right now. That'll change in the next few years as McKenzie and others develop, but no one we put out there would've been an improvement. We were chasing the game against the better team all night.

Our big players didn't show up and our pool at keeper has somehow really regressed. We're at the point where it's any given Sunday against the better teams and on the right night we can beat one, but last night was the opposite of that night.

we were chasing because we came out flat. that match felt lost in the first 5 minutes when we allowed Belgium to press and set the tone. It's just really discouraging and confusing. As I've said before, I think the fact this team went from being a global and beloved underdog to hated by every non American overnight due to the Flo stuff (whether valid or not) really impacted this team of primarily 21-26 year olds.
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birdman
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9:35a, 7/7/26
People want relegation in American soccer. It's never going to happen. When the EPL was founded, they were in serious discussions to have no relegation. The US market is too vast to make relegation work.

All of the teams in English Premiere League would fit in the size of Louisiana.
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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to fig96 • 9:37a, 7/7/26
We will have to agree to disagree there. It wasn't our primary issue for sure but we looked like we had concrete in our shoes most of the night.

Our back line was way too slow. Pulisica speed and quickness was totally negated.

Ream was posterized. In fact, our entire teams' speed was neutered.

I'm not making the argument that if you put lebron in goal that we'd be 1000x better. I'm saying that we need more of the most promising young athletes to choose soccer over football etc, when they are 7, 8, 9.

In Belgium, England, Germany, Spain, brazil and so on, the get 100% of the best, most promising atheltes to choose from. Us soccer maybe gets 10% of the same?

It's a part of the bigger equation to make the product better
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AgLiving06
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 9:41a, 7/7/26
Who?mikejones! said:
Hey...so.. um said:
Who?mikejones! said:
SECcess12 said:
Soccer also doesn't require "our best athletes" playing for us to be extremely competitive. You think world class players all look like (insert any elite athlete for NFL/NBA)? They don't.

That is a tired and very lazy excuse. Would it help? Sure, but until our midfield stops turning it over 20 times against a better team, or our defense can clear a ball from the box, it doesn't matter who is playing.


Its part of a larger argument. We need more high level kids choosing soccer over other sports. Just more volume. To say it is not a problem is ignorant.


We have about 5 times the volume of 15u players compared to Belgium based on a quick ChatGPT search. 150k to 30k. I don't think volume is the issue.


Yeah, but that 5x volume doesn't include some of our most gifted young athletes that instead chose football, basketball or baseball and a lot of the one there are because they can afford it.

You'll never convince me that a kid like achane choosing soccer instead of football and then growing up in that wouldn't be a huge upgrade over jsut abiut anyone we have today


Exactly. Our best players (though no fault of their own) are chasing the sports that pay the big bucks and gets the big spotlight.

I'd bet that most, if not all, of our soccer team could more or less walk anywhere in the US without being noticed or recognized. Even after this world cup.

Tack on the pay disparity and it's really not a touch decision.
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ccaggie05
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In reply to birdman • 9:47a, 7/7/26
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birdman said:
People want relegation in American soccer. It's never going to happen. When the EPL was founded, they were in serious discussions to have no relegation. The US market is too vast to make relegation work.

All of the teams in English Premiere League would fit in the size of Louisiana.

I don't personally understand why so many think pro/reg will suddenly fix all of our problems.
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In reply to Max Power • 9:49a, 7/7/26
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Max Power said:
I know there's probably plenty of the posters here that understand how the system works better than I do, and I'm sure things vary geographically, but we've seen an unintended impact of how some of this works. My daughter is 10 and we basically had to stop playing soccer because it's no longer fun for her anymore. Even at the recreational level where I live in the Midwest teams with girls like her, who just want to play for fun and have practice once a week, have to play against teams with girls who play on multiple leagues on multiple teams. These other girls play every single day, so they've left kids like my daughter far behind in skill, which I understand but the local leagues will let anyone play that pays the fee. It's not recreational soccer anymore here, it doesn't exist. Soccer was my favorite sport growing up, I loved it, and my daughter is never going to play it again. I know we're not alone in this, plenty of other girls she started playing with at 4 years old are also done with the sport now. I don't blame them, what should be a fun weekend game turned totally disheartening for the girls and the parents. There's nothing fun for you or your kid watching them get destroyed week after week, it just made me sad. Luckily she has another activity to keep her busy but I never thought when I was playing with her in the backyard she'd be done with soccer before she hit middle school.

Sorry, I didn't mean to pivot away from the topic at hand as much as I did, but it goes to show you that the families with the money to participate at a high level are contributing to an unintended consequence.


That's sports in the US now. Baseball is the same way. It's all club and no longer recreational. That's the catch 22. We would likely still be god awful in soccer if not for all of the club crap that has come about in the last 20-30 years. I think it sucks too and has removed the fun from the game, but you are going to need intense life-long programs for these kids if we want to compete on the national stage.

My nephew is a badass soccer player for his age. Plays on multiple teams. Would score 4-5 goals per game on his rec team because he just can't be stopped. Scores 1-2 goals per game on his FC Dallas feeder team. But then he doesn't get to play at all on his high school team because (1) he's the only white kid on the team with an all Hispanic team and coach and (2) the coach is playing everyone else because nephew already on the club team. He's likely going to quit playing high school and just focus on the club team because of it.

Would likely help his school go to state but can't do that while sitting on the bench.
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In reply to zgolfz85 • 9:49a, 7/7/26
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zgolfz85 said:
fig96 said:
Dirt 05 said:
Ream didn't need to be on the field - he was directly involved giving up ass on all four of belgium's goals and definitely should have been benched after giving up the first header. He was the only player that looked like he absolutely didn't belong-though wasn't the only one to have a bad night. The team played sloppy and on their heels last night - terrible passing - and then late no one even attempting to make runs into space.

Bemoaning the differences in talent development vs. Europe and LATAM is off in my opinion - we're 12 years removed from the 2018 disaster and clearly developing talent - just a piece or two off from being able to punch through to the next round.

For better or worse Ream is one of our two best options centerbacks right now. That'll change in the next few years as McKenzie and others develop, but no one we put out there would've been an improvement. We were chasing the game against the better team all night.

Our big players didn't show up and our pool at keeper has somehow really regressed. We're at the point where it's any given Sunday against the better teams and on the right night we can beat one, but last night was the opposite of that night.

we were chasing because we came out flat. that match felt lost in the first 5 minutes when we allowed Belgium to press and set the tone. It's just really discouraging and confusing. As I've said before, I think the fact this team went from being a global and beloved underdog to hated by every non American overnight due to the Flo stuff (whether valid or not) really impacted this team of primarily 21-26 year olds.

i agree, the whole vibe changed and the soccer gods essentially said " oh no you didnt "
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9:50a, 7/7/26
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ultimately, a lot of this falls on the USSF. Now, one can argue that we've made huge strides in soccer growth in this country, especially when you compare back to 94, when is realistically the modern cornerstone for the USMNT as we know it. Anything prior to that was more like an intramural team.

But, one can also argue that while we've grown a lot, there's still been a bit of a failure with USSF marketing to the US masses, as well as figuring out the ever so broken youth system in this nation. These youth pay to play issues have plagued this sport domestically for decades now. This isn't new.
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Enrico Pallazzo
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9:52a, 7/7/26
My wife's best friend has a son who has been interesting to follow. 19 year old 6'5" centerback, very talented. Played in FC Dallas academy from 7th to 10th grade, then shifted to FC Cincinnati for his last 2 years of HS. It was like going off to college at 16; one of the aims was that there is better college recruiting exposure there than Texas to help keep both college and pro avenues open. He's playing for a Big10 school now and had plans to pursue professional after this upcoming college season (would be his soph), but then as some of these stories sometimes go, tore his ACL in the spring. So now unknown ahead. But it's been interesting to see how these academies manage their business and where the focus is. They are producing talent, but I don't see some untapped big step-up for us out there that will take the USMNT to another level.
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Bag
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In reply to AgLiving06 • 9:52a, 7/7/26
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AgLiving06 said:
Who?mikejones! said:
Hey...so.. um said:
Who?mikejones! said:
SECcess12 said:
Soccer also doesn't require "our best athletes" playing for us to be extremely competitive. You think world class players all look like (insert any elite athlete for NFL/NBA)? They don't.

That is a tired and very lazy excuse. Would it help? Sure, but until our midfield stops turning it over 20 times against a better team, or our defense can clear a ball from the box, it doesn't matter who is playing.


Its part of a larger argument. We need more high level kids choosing soccer over other sports. Just more volume. To say it is not a problem is ignorant.


We have about 5 times the volume of 15u players compared to Belgium based on a quick ChatGPT search. 150k to 30k. I don't think volume is the issue.


Yeah, but that 5x volume doesn't include some of our most gifted young athletes that instead chose football, basketball or baseball and a lot of the one there are because they can afford it.

You'll never convince me that a kid like achane choosing soccer instead of football and then growing up in that wouldn't be a huge upgrade over jsut abiut anyone we have today


Exactly. Our best players (though no fault of their own) are chasing the sports that pay the big bucks and gets the big spotlight.

I'd bet that most, if not all, of our soccer team could more or less walk anywhere in the US without being noticed or recognized. Even after this world cup.

Tack on the pay disparity and it's really not a touch decision.

i think it was pretty clear we didnt get out athleted last night, we got drilled by a fundamentally sound team that just stuck to the plan and let us self destruct
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In reply to birdman • 9:58a, 7/7/26
birdman said:
People want relegation in American soccer. It's never going to happen. When the EPL was founded, they were in serious discussions to have no relegation. The US market is too vast to make relegation work.

All of the teams in English Premiere League would fit in the size of Louisiana.

This makes no sense, they have Pro/Rel in places like Brazil for example which is a huge country land wise.
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tboag
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In reply to Bag • 9:58a, 7/7/26
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Bag said:
AgLiving06 said:
Who?mikejones! said:
Hey...so.. um said:
Who?mikejones! said:
SECcess12 said:
Soccer also doesn't require "our best athletes" playing for us to be extremely competitive. You think world class players all look like (insert any elite athlete for NFL/NBA)? They don't.

That is a tired and very lazy excuse. Would it help? Sure, but until our midfield stops turning it over 20 times against a better team, or our defense can clear a ball from the box, it doesn't matter who is playing.


Its part of a larger argument. We need more high level kids choosing soccer over other sports. Just more volume. To say it is not a problem is ignorant.


We have about 5 times the volume of 15u players compared to Belgium based on a quick ChatGPT search. 150k to 30k. I don't think volume is the issue.


Yeah, but that 5x volume doesn't include some of our most gifted young athletes that instead chose football, basketball or baseball and a lot of the one there are because they can afford it.

You'll never convince me that a kid like achane choosing soccer instead of football and then growing up in that wouldn't be a huge upgrade over jsut abiut anyone we have today


Exactly. Our best players (though no fault of their own) are chasing the sports that pay the big bucks and gets the big spotlight.

I'd bet that most, if not all, of our soccer team could more or less walk anywhere in the US without being noticed or recognized. Even after this world cup.

Tack on the pay disparity and it's really not a touch decision.

i think it was pretty clear we didnt get out athleted last night, we got drilled by a fundamentally sound team that just stuck to the plan and let us self destruct


Their tactic, skill was MILES better. Athletically we are fine. We just aren't skilled. At all
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In reply to Bag • 9:59a, 7/7/26
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Bag said:
i think it was pretty clear we didnt get out athleted last night, we got drilled by a fundamentally sound team that just stuck to the plan and let us self destruct

extremely disappointing to witness. if you watched Belgium draw 0-0 with Iran and 1-1 with Egypt a few weeks ago and really struggle vs Senegal last week, and compare that to USA easily handling Senegal a few weeks ago and look really strong against Germany, not to mention the rout of Paraguay, you would have expected a much tighter match..

the effort on the first two goals conceded were really bad moments but we did know this squad was susceptible defensively and that reared it's ugly head. the goalkeeper howler and the final one where Richards gave the ball to Lukaku were uncharacteristic mistakes that can never happen. but the whole squad was also off in possession last night too. not connected, not on the same page. Pulisic always wanting to dribble and never play 1 and 2 touch soccer and combine with teammates was awful. The moment / pressure was just too much for those dudes I'm afraid.
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In reply to tboag • 10:03a, 7/7/26
tboag said:
Bag said:
AgLiving06 said:
Who?mikejones! said:
Hey...so.. um said:
Who?mikejones! said:
SECcess12 said:
Soccer also doesn't require "our best athletes" playing for us to be extremely competitive. You think world class players all look like (insert any elite athlete for NFL/NBA)? They don't.

That is a tired and very lazy excuse. Would it help? Sure, but until our midfield stops turning it over 20 times against a better team, or our defense can clear a ball from the box, it doesn't matter who is playing.


Its part of a larger argument. We need more high level kids choosing soccer over other sports. Just more volume. To say it is not a problem is ignorant.


We have about 5 times the volume of 15u players compared to Belgium based on a quick ChatGPT search. 150k to 30k. I don't think volume is the issue.


Yeah, but that 5x volume doesn't include some of our most gifted young athletes that instead chose football, basketball or baseball and a lot of the one there are because they can afford it.

You'll never convince me that a kid like achane choosing soccer instead of football and then growing up in that wouldn't be a huge upgrade over jsut abiut anyone we have today


Exactly. Our best players (though no fault of their own) are chasing the sports that pay the big bucks and gets the big spotlight.

I'd bet that most, if not all, of our soccer team could more or less walk anywhere in the US without being noticed or recognized. Even after this world cup.

Tack on the pay disparity and it's really not a touch decision.

i think it was pretty clear we didnt get out athleted last night, we got drilled by a fundamentally sound team that just stuck to the plan and let us self destruct


Their tactic, skill was MILES better. Athletically we are fine. We just aren't skilled. At all


For sure we were out skilled. Last night our guys looked like they never played soccer before for at least the first 30 mins.

But, we were out athleted as well.

It's an all the above option.
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txags92
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In reply to Bag • 10:04a, 7/7/26
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Bag said:
AgLiving06 said:
Who?mikejones! said:
Hey...so.. um said:
Who?mikejones! said:
SECcess12 said:
Soccer also doesn't require "our best athletes" playing for us to be extremely competitive. You think world class players all look like (insert any elite athlete for NFL/NBA)? They don't.

That is a tired and very lazy excuse. Would it help? Sure, but until our midfield stops turning it over 20 times against a better team, or our defense can clear a ball from the box, it doesn't matter who is playing.


Its part of a larger argument. We need more high level kids choosing soccer over other sports. Just more volume. To say it is not a problem is ignorant.


We have about 5 times the volume of 15u players compared to Belgium based on a quick ChatGPT search. 150k to 30k. I don't think volume is the issue.


Yeah, but that 5x volume doesn't include some of our most gifted young athletes that instead chose football, basketball or baseball and a lot of the one there are because they can afford it.

You'll never convince me that a kid like achane choosing soccer instead of football and then growing up in that wouldn't be a huge upgrade over jsut abiut anyone we have today


Exactly. Our best players (though no fault of their own) are chasing the sports that pay the big bucks and gets the big spotlight.

I'd bet that most, if not all, of our soccer team could more or less walk anywhere in the US without being noticed or recognized. Even after this world cup.

Tack on the pay disparity and it's really not a touch decision.

i think it was pretty clear we didnt get out athleted last night, we got drilled by a fundamentally sound team that just stuck to the plan and let us self destruct

Last night just drove me crazy watching how much better Belgium was playing fundamentally sound soccer than we were. I have not seen very many of the US games so far this world cup just because my schedule hasn't allowed for it, but what I saw last night was just lazy and sloppy play by our midfielders in particular. When we were trying to bring the ball forward, nobody was moving to give the player with the ball options. It was 9 guys standing relatively still and watching one guy dribble. When we did get an attack or a breakaway going, it was 8-9 guys trotting along behind waiting to see how it turned out instead of racing forward to be there for a cross, rebounded save, etc. There were so many 2nd opportunities there after a shot or cross that turned into nothing because the midfielders who should have been moving forward to take advantage were still at midfield slowly trotting forward. I don't know if that is typical of how the team played in all of our games, but if so, we clearly had the luck of a weak group to get us this far, because we looked sloppy and unprofessional last night.
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In reply to oh no • 10:04a, 7/7/26
Very much a snowball like from the movie replacements.
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In reply to JimJonesAg11 • 10:07a, 7/7/26
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JimJonesAg11 said:
birdman said:
People want relegation in American soccer. It's never going to happen. When the EPL was founded, they were in serious discussions to have no relegation. The US market is too vast to make relegation work.

All of the teams in English Premiere League would fit in the size of Louisiana.

This makes no sense, they have Pro/Rel in places like Brazil for example which is a huge country land wise.

The investments and structure of MLS don't allow for pro/rel, all the teams are controlled centrally by the league and teams wouldn't be sustainable bouncing between divisions.
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In reply to birdman • 10:09a, 7/7/26
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birdman said:
People want relegation in American soccer. It's never going to happen. When the EPL was founded, they were in serious discussions to have no relegation. The US market is too vast to make relegation work.

All of the teams in English Premiere League would fit in the size of Louisiana.


Geographic size has nothing to do with it.

It's the franchise model that MLS (and every other pro sports league in the US) uses.

No ownership group would be ok with paying $500MM -$1B in franchise fees to buy into a league to suddenly be kicked down.

Pro/Rel just isn't ever happening here.
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tysker
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In reply to La Bamba • 10:14a, 7/7/26
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La Bamba said:

Thoughts on this?

The line that matters is this one:
Quote:
US Soccer refuses to enforce those rules.

Why is this the case? I suspect it's multifactorial - MLS clubs keeping the funds, legal issues with kickbacks, and even the provenance of a player's 'training authentication' (which Gupta mentions in regard to Dempsey and Bradley).

Should a player's club get credit money or should the coach? Or should that player's outside trainer get paid more than a game-managing coach who does little for skill development?
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