quote:This is often ignored.
Liberal arts are part of a well rounded university. Just because they don't get recruited at the same level, doesn't mean there isn't inherent value.
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as a land grant college, A&M was established to provide higher education to students who, for reasons financial or related to academic preparation, could not obtain admission to Baylor, tu, Haavod, Yale, or the "top 10" or "top 20" universities of the day.
quote:Ding Ding Ding
USC and Darmouth both were land grand colleges. That historical fact shouldn't drive what we strive for today.
quote:--- John Adams
I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.
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Other colleges that outgrew their landgrant mission:
UC-Berkeley (the top ranked public university)
MIT
Cornell
Most state Flagships ( University of Florida, University of Georgia, University of Arizona, University of Illinois Urban-Champagne, University of Maryland, UMass, Ohio State, Penn State, LSU, University of Wisconsin, etc.)
quote:I'm not entirely sure what you're saying in this post. But my primary point was that there was a time when having a college degree was a much less common thing, and having it let people know that you were smart enough, hard working enough, and dedicated enough to having a successful career. That definitely helped raise college graduates above the crowd.quote:Ok, I agree with a lot of what I think you are saying. What you call nostalgia I call life in the real world after leaving high school. I had counsel and encouragement from A&M graduates from the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, and 60's.quote:quote:
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My concept of the "value" of a degree from a university is determined by the cost of the degree as well as the opportunities (social and economic) the degree affords the recipient. I think some have posted a concern that the value of their degree is diminished if A&M increases enrollment and affords more students the opportunity to obtain a degree in the same field as they. Maybe it will be cause for concern...that is life, this is Texas, USA, and there is not a better place on earth for them to deal with such a problem than right here.....they are indeed fortunate.
I can most certainly assure you the concern you express regarding graduates leaving A&M with lots of debt and no job prospects is not the result of the mentality of folk like myself. I acquired enuff maths in high school to figure what four years at A&M would cost, what I could earn with a bs in civil engineering, and what I could earn working without the degree. I determined the degree had VALUE. I determined other degrees had no value to me as I could go to work and earn more. Somewhere between then and now the student loan program easy money enabled stupidity to flourish. I suspect some schools were as stupid as some students. I always heard that A&M had the lowest student loan default numbers in the nation. That may have been nostalgia, however, as I did not have internet access back then to verify the accuracy of the statement.
I did not know just any college degree would help get a job for an applicant over another without it. I know in times past a 21 yr old with a few years work experience and modest ability supervised guys who had their masters and doctorate degrees. These were not pleasant times, and as I write this I've wondered if any had doubts as to the value of their degree. Thing is, it wasn't that the degree was insignificant, it just wasn't relevant at the time and the task at hand. But times change.
Lastly, consider this if you will please. What would be the response or reaction if the universities, or state legislatures, determined which degrees were valuable? For example, to achieve the 25 x 25 initiative with the engineering college or STEM curriculum, say resources were redistributed at the A&M main campus to achieve the goal. You know, do away with those programs or departments which are determined to add no real value to what Texas really needs today and in the future. Yeah, that's the ticket.....I dare say the resulting ****storm would turn my nostalgia to wisdom in a heartbeat.
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Quote:Meanwhile, please allow us mere mortals the hope that A&M remains steadfast to the ideals upon which it was founded...... as a land grant college, A&M was established to provide higher education to students who, for reasons financial or related to academic preparation, could not obtain admission to Baylor, tu, Haavod, Yale, or the "top 10" or "top 20" universities of the day.
Not really. A&M was created to turn out engineers and agriculturalists during a period of mass-industrialization and a massively under educated populace. It wasn't created to be and forever be the bargain education.
While we still need to increase access, A&M was created at a time when there were literally too few universities to grow. Further, Congress reasoned growing current universities wasn't the solution- Texas A&M was created for similar reasons we are now using to argue against growing the flagship A&M campus. Sometimes growing the main campus isn't the right thing to do. Sometimes the better solution is growing another campus (or perhaps creating a new campus)
Times have changed. And as has been noted, several other land grant colleges have realized times were a-changing and their mission was no longer- or probably never was- to try to cater to masses of kids who couldn't get in/afford better colleges.
Our mission was once defined as providing that engineering and agricultural education to white males who wanted to join the military. Do you want us to go back to those times, too?
In the course of developing the minds and character of these students, and through the work ethic and capabilities demonstrated by its faculty and former students, A&M acquired a reputation as the best place in Texas to obtain a degree in agriculture and engineering. This reputation, or "ranking" was not conferred, or possibly even shared, by the likes of USN&WR, DMN, or the WSJ. It was conferred by the PARENTS of the sons and daughters whom they could afford to send to A&M, together with the individuals, companies, and organizations which hired the Former Students.
There will always be a majority who believe this is the only ranking which matters.
I'm not exactly sure what that all means, but our concern is A&M will lose its place as the "best" agriculture and engineering institute in the state. I think for many, that's already happened and I'm sure for many, they don't see A&M as providing any better an education in those two areas than they can get in Austin and other towns around this state.
If you think A&M is providing a great education, I don't see why you want to risk it by growing the campus rapidly. There are so many other campuses around this state that have the ability to grow.
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The 25 x 25 initiative is ambitious to the extent it is difficult to imagine how it can succeed without negatively affecting A&M. It is likely considered by some to be comparable to admitting women and allowing voluntary Corps membership. Only with great leadership can it be accomplished.
quote:25 years ago, A&M was 6th in research funding in the nation.quote:
Other colleges that outgrew their landgrant mission:
UC-Berkeley (the top ranked public university)
MIT
Cornell
Most state Flagships ( University of Florida, University of Georgia, University of Arizona, University of Illinois Urban-Champagne, University of Maryland, UMass, Ohio State, Penn State, LSU, University of Wisconsin, etc.)
A lot of those listed are AMAZING academic institutions that pump out excellent research across the board. I'm most concerned with the 25x25 crap and growing the student population without the necessary infrastructure in place both on campus and off.
quote:It is my opinion that 25 x 25 is perceived by many to be a detriment to A&M, just as the Rudder changes were.quote:
The 25 x 25 initiative is ambitious to the extent it is difficult to imagine how it can succeed without negatively affecting A&M. It is likely considered by some to be comparable to admitting women and allowing voluntary Corps membership. Only with great leadership can it be accomplished.
Please explain how 25x25 and the Rudder changes are similar.
TIA
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Using that logic, all those mediocre "B" student athletes should just go to Tech and UofH too? You can't have it both ways.
I for one was 'Given a shot' and have out performed most of my high-school classmates who had higher GPAs than me. In fact, I made it all the way to grad-school despite some of the standards you 4.0 students have set for everyone else.
quote:quote:It is my opinion that 25 x 25 is perceived by many to be a detriment to A&M, just as the Rudder changes were.quote:
The 25 x 25 initiative is ambitious to the extent it is difficult to imagine how it can succeed without negatively affecting A&M. It is likely considered by some to be comparable to admitting women and allowing voluntary Corps membership. Only with great leadership can it be accomplished.
Please explain how 25x25 and the Rudder changes are similar.
TIA
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Using that logic, all those mediocre "B" student athletes should just go to Tech and UofH too? You can't have it both ways.
I for one was 'Given a shot' and have out performed most of my high-school classmates who had higher GPAs than me. In fact, I made it all the way to grad-school despite some of the standards you 4.0 students have set for everyone else.
quote:Quit being defensive about your low GPA
For those of you crowing about high GPAs, I can assure you that sometimes that doesn't mean those individuals are necessarily "high quality" students. I know several students who got higher grades just by memorizing old exams in some classes and didn't learn a damn thing.
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For those of you crowing about high GPAs, I can assure you that sometimes that doesn't mean those individuals are necessarily "high quality" students. I know several students who got higher grades just by memorizing old exams in some classes and didn't learn a damn thing.
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When you're looking that far in the future there is another school which needs to be considered. Today, Texas State **pause for eye roll and/or laughing** has an acceptance rate of 73.8% and is in a geographically advantageous location between two growing cities. In 5-10 years it should easily pass Tech as the #3 public university in the state (it already has a larger enrollment than Tech). If A&M continues to move down it will likely meet Texas State in the middle as it moves up in the world.
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When you're looking that far in the future there is another school which needs to be considered. Today, Texas State **pause for eye roll and/or laughing** has an acceptance rate of 73.8% and is in a geographically advantageous location between two growing cities. In 5-10 years it should easily pass Tech as the #3 public university in the state (it already has a larger enrollment than Tech). If A&M continues to move down it will likely meet Texas State in the middle as it moves up in the world.
quote:quote:
When you're looking that far in the future there is another school which needs to be considered. Today, Texas State **pause for eye roll and/or laughing** has an acceptance rate of 73.8% and is in a geographically advantageous location between two growing cities. In 5-10 years it should easily pass Tech as the #3 public university in the state (it already has a larger enrollment than Tech). If A&M continues to move down it will likely meet Texas State in the middle as it moves up in the world.
I would agree regarding Texas State. That school has made great strides over the last 10 years or so.
