Never drove anything with a vertical steering column, I see.

TexasRebel said:

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Never drove anything with a vertical steering column, I see.

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Show me a Tesla Model 3/Y with a vertical steering column. My post was helping someone driving a Tesla remember which button to press without looking at the steering wheel, therefore the upper button matches up on a turn stalk in an equivalent Tesla

I problem solve instead of trolling with extreme edge cases

Do Tesla drivers use their indicators?

I saw a BMW properly signal the other day, so maybe they changed places.

Yes the FSD will signal too

Top reason for me is 1000hp in some models.

tk for tu juan said:

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Collision numbers from Tesla's side:
https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety

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Charts like this are specious, but since it is a marketing piece it is designed to be.

Most modern vehicles have active safety features, compare to that, not the US average, which includes all vehicles on the road. So again, w/out FSD, Tesla is just a good EV, but not particularly remarkable.

Also, if a vegan, cyclist Tesla drive meets someone, which do they mention first?

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So again, w/out FSD, Tesla is just a good EV, but not particularly remarkable.

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So again, even without FSD the Tesla Model Y was and is one of, if not the, best selling car in the world.

That's remarkable in anyone's book.

That chart compares a Tesla on FSD to a Tesla with active safety features, to a Tesla without active safety features, to the average vehicle. Independent testing of Tesla's active safety features rate their system highly compared to peers with similar features. FSD enabled vs not enabled with active safety features results in a halving of the rate of accidents.

hph6203 said:

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That chart compares a Tesla on FSD to a Tesla with active safety features, to a Tesla without active safety features, to the average vehicle. Independent testing of Tesla's active safety features rate their system highly compared to peers with similar features. FSD enabled vs not enabled with active safety features results in a halving of the rate of accidents.

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FSD is no doubt awesome. However, the active safety features in many modern automobiles will have similar rates to Tesla, but as would be expected Tesla doesn't show that. It's the FSD that's the differentiator.



Yes it's right there between two Toyotas, so the Rav4 is even more awesome, I guess. If FSD is 14%, sans FSD it would be below the F-150 and above a Honda CRV. So hardly cult status. It's also the most capable EV right now, so EV desire inflates it's sales. As others catch Tesla (and they will, especially in the non FSD space) the popularity will probably dilute a bit.

Still not cult worthy.

So which would be mentioned first? Vegan? Cyclist? Tesla? Quite a quandary I think.

Crossfitter? People who are boycotting the NFL?

What point do you think you're making? Your critique of the chart was that it didn't show a comparison to vehicles with active safety systems. It does. It uses Tesla with active safety systems and with FSD to demonstrate the safety advantage of FSD. That is the point of the chart.

There are already cars in China that on paper do pure EV stuff better than Tesla at a price lower than Tesla. Know what happens there? People pay the premium for Tesla.

Catching Tesla is catching them in self driving technology. "Excluding FSD" is a stupid qualifier. That is the future of transportation. In AI data is king. Tesla as of the beginning of June is accumulating 1 billion miles on FSD every 37 days. Waymo after 6 years of operation is at ~180 million cumulative. They do around 4 million miles a week. Meaning it takes them 5 years at their current rate to match the data collection that Tesla does in a month. The gap in data collection is growing, not shrinking, as Tesla expands into more countries while Waymo is focused on expanding into more U.S. cities.

Really don't understand why people with limited knowledge in a topic feel the need to interject an uninformed opinion about it.

My point is the point I started with and the one you are making. Tesla is fsd. The car part is secondary.

cecil77 said:

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My point is the point I started with and the one you are making. Tesla is fsd. The car part is secondary.

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Which has proven to be ridiculous. The car has no issues selling without it. It has never and does not currently drive sales for Tesla vehicles. The ecosystem of vehicle goes further than FSD. It gets everything right with what an EV needs to be.

Teslag said:

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cecil77 said:

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My point is the point I started with and the one you are making. Tesla is fsd. The car part is secondary.

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Which has proven to be ridiculous. The car has no issues selling without it. It has never and does not currently drive sales for Tesla vehicles. The ecosystem of vehicle goes further than FSD. It gets everything right with what an EV needs to be.

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I C WUT U DID THAIR!

cecil77 said:

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My point is the point I started with and the one you are making. Tesla is fsd. The car part is secondary.

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Cecil you done got everybody riled up.

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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So again, w/out FSD, Tesla is just a good EV, but not particularly remarkable.

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So again, even without FSD the Tesla Model Y was and is one of, if not the, best selling car in the world.

That's remarkable in anyone's book.

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Calling it "the best" because it's the top seller in its category only works if buyers were actually choosing it over comparable alternatives. They weren't - it's really the only product of its kind in the "auto" category. There really are no other competitors. So "#1 seller" here doesn't mean it beat the competition; it means there is no competition. It's a category of one. It's not being compared against ICE vehicles but against other EVs by those that purchase it.

Yup, and w/out the cachet of FSD, it wouldn't sell as well. Even those who don't buy FSD know that they can. It's just not a remarkable car. FSD is incredibly close to magic.

Although the Mercedes system, if they cant get it adapted to all roads (as sizeable "if"), will arguably be superior.

So… I am as of today one of the ones who swore off EVs and said I'd never buy one. I did not believe in the technology, thought the infrastructure where we live would prevent practical use, etc. For ****s & giggles, as I was in the market for a new SUV or pickup, I swung by the Tesla dealership last week to see what all the fuss was about (along with the fact that comparable SUVs to what I wanted were in the 75-100k price point).

We are keeping my current SUV as I'll likely pass this down to one of my younger sons when they start driving, but I thought: why not, let's try a Model Y and a Model 3 to see how they handle. To quickly summarize, I was absolutely blown away by the handling, blown away by the FSD, and blown away by the economics of it all.

For half the price of what I was looking at in my targeted ICE options, I am a new owner of a 2026 Model 3 with FSD, free super charging for the next year, a payment that is a 3rd of what I would be paying for the ICE purchase, and no $100+ weekly gas purchases.

This will strictly be my commuter/work car, but ladies & gentlemen, if you have never considered this I would highly recommend you explore this for yourself. Literally the most streamlined/purchase I have ever been a part of, and again, the FSD is most certainly the future of automobile travel.

Picking up at 11 today, could not be more excited!

Edit: spelleing bee harde

Wait for the tire bill.

You didn't actually choose it over a different $75-100k vehicle, because it has no competitors or something. I learned that a couple posts up.

Different point, but the Model Y is a very small SUV. I would think those $75-100K SUVS were significantly larger than a Y or Model 3. So great purchase for your stated use, but it doesn't directly compare to those expensive SUVs. And, of course, the FSD is the thing. If that $75K SUV was $85K with Tesla FSD, the decision matrix would have been different.

You know so incredibly little about this topic that it actually makes you confidently wrong, whereas if you knew nothing you'd be less wrong because you wouldn't provide an opinion (maybe, you actually seem like the type that would say stuff while knowing nothing).

Mercedes is abandoning the system (DrivePilot) you're talking about, because it was and is a parlor trick designed to impress people like you that follow the topic just closely enough to know it exists, but not closely enough to know what it actually does. They introduced their new driving assistance system at the beginning of this year. It works on all roads. It's roughly as good as where Tesla was 3 years ago, which is to say it will never be as good as Tesla's system is at the same time. They do not have the vehicle fleet or infrastructure necessary to do that.

Between 2022 and 2025 FSD was only available in the U.S. and Canada (~1/3 of Tesla's consumers). Between 2022 and late 2023 it was not a system the average person would spend $8,000/$200 a month for. When Tesla does free FSD trials half of their consumers never use it even though it's free.



FSD does not move units. You know it doesn't move units because 86% of their consumers don't buy it, and yet it's still among the best selling vehicles in the world despite being 30% more expensive than the next closest vehicle in price.

TexasRebel said:

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Wait for the tire bill.

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Yeah, it'll go up, but hugely offset by gas savings & other maintenance items. Good thing I have strong connections to tire distributors in our area, might save me a couple bucks more than the average consumer.

cecil77 said:

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Different point, but the Model Y is a very small SUV. I would think those $75-100K SUVS were significantly larger than a Y or Model 3. So great purchase for your stated use, but it doesn't directly compare to those expensive SUVs. And, of course, the FSD is the thing. If that $75K SUV was $85K with Tesla FSD, the decision matrix would have been different.

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Did he say he bought a Model Y?

TexasRebel said:

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Wait for the tire bill.

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"Gas" bill and reduced maint will more than make up for it.

Maybe, but I'm getting rid of my very new ram 2500 for a cybertruck mostly to get FSD. Put FSD in my ram and I'd keep it

GAC06 said:

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cecil77 said:

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Different point, but the Model Y is a very small SUV. I would think those $75-100K SUVS were significantly larger than a Y or Model 3. So great purchase for your stated use, but it doesn't directly compare to those expensive SUVs. And, of course, the FSD is the thing. If that $75K SUV was $85K with Tesla FSD, the decision matrix would have been different.

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Did he say he bought a Model Y?

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You make a good point. Its an even worse comparison when you realize he compared luxury SUV's to a sedan and then bragged about the cost savings of models that are not comparable.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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GAC06 said:

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cecil77 said:

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Different point, but the Model Y is a very small SUV. I would think those $75-100K SUVS were significantly larger than a Y or Model 3. So great purchase for your stated use, but it doesn't directly compare to those expensive SUVs. And, of course, the FSD is the thing. If that $75K SUV was $85K with Tesla FSD, the decision matrix would have been different.

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Did he say he bought a Model Y?

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You make a good point. Its an even worse comparison when you realize he compared luxury SUV's to a sedan and then bragged about the cost savings of models that are not comparable.

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You also missed the part where I said I'm keeping my current SUV and saving money

TexasRebel said:

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Wait for the tire bill.

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I love how all your arguments are based on old data. Unless you buy a high performance version and/or gumming it everywhere the tire issue is nonexistent.

I don't know…

A 5-figure battery change could buy a lot of oil & filters.

Your car weighs more than my pickup. That's not old data.

TexasRebel said:

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Your car weighs more than my pickup. That's not old data.

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Doesn't matter. Still doesn't chew through tires unless you have a performance version and/or taking off hard.

TexasRebel said:

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Wait for the tire bill.

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I know now you are just trolling.

We have a MX at 20K miles and tires still have thick treads.
Have a MY at 92K miles and had a 2nd set put on at 90K miles. Prob had 10K more miles but with all the rain, didn't want to risk it. Getting 45K miles/set is better than my X5 in the past.

Cost was $225/tire which was in line with X5 so the tire issue is way overblown.

Most who gives Tsla a real change, it is just a different experience. Flawless buying, close to zero maintenance, tech that an ICE car feels like 10 yrs behind.

Im shocked that cars still do not have OTA updates. It is 2026 and companies still can't figure it out.

I have a chevy and needed a software update. Took dealer 3 dys to do it b.c the software guy was too busy, for a software update.

TexasRebel said:

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I don't know…

A 5-figure battery change could buy a lot of oil & filters.

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Let me remind you of your post since you can't seem to keep up with it...

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Wait for the tire bill.

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