SteveA said:

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The amount of people that are "Never EV" guys crack me up. If you don't want one, cool. Why **** on people who do....lol

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To be fair, there's not a lot of Never EV types on these threads compared to say 4 years ago. Seems to actually be more considering them and/or owning them than the Never EV'ers on these threads now.

The common theme is usually always "I hated them until I drove one..."

SteveA said:

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The amount of people that are "Never EV" guys crack me up. If you don't want one, cool. Why **** on people who do....lol

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My law partner has to travel to our Alpharetta, GA office a couple of days a week. 1 to 2 hours each way depending on traffic in ATL. I think he's starting to get very curious about FSD. It's a no-brainer for me.

You can fully focus on making calls, responding to emails, reading documents, etc. without compromising your safety.

Our tailor (Tom James guy) is a huge Tesla fan. He drives all over Atlanta and plans his day and supercharger stops the night before. He actually likes the Supercharger stops so he can focus on work. He has a desk attachment he sets his laptop up on.

YouBet said:

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SteveA said:

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The amount of people that are "Never EV" guys crack me up. If you don't want one, cool. Why **** on people who do....lol

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Because this all goes back to Democrats mandating EVs for the populace. If they had let the market work organically along the way, you would never have seen this much vitriol towards them.

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110%, and I would add in the smugness/'good for you' attitude of the early adopters.

Teslag said:

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SteveA said:

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The amount of people that are "Never EV" guys crack me up. If you don't want one, cool. Why **** on people who do....lol

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To be fair, there's not a lot of Never EV types on these threads compared to say 4 years ago. Seems to actually be more considering them and/or owning them than the Never EV'ers on these threads now.

The common theme is usually always "I hated them until I drove one..."

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The FSD tech four years ago wasn't like it was now. Brother and I are trying to get my Dad to trade in his SUV for a Tesla because they are early 80s. His reaction time is **** now and so are his motor skills.

This wasn't an option four years ago.

First experience in a Tesla this week in my brother's Model Y.

And yes, it's the FSD which makes it a Tesla. The EV part (other than the awesome acceleration) is inconsequential, and what's holding it back from more massive sales. Also, it's not a "luxury" car in fit and finish. My Black Label Lincoln is a much nicer vehicle.

Put that FSD in a top tier brand (Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Lincoln/Cadillac/Lexus/Genesis and they'd far surpas Tesla as vehicles.

CanyonAg77 said:

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YouBet said:

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SteveA said:

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The amount of people that are "Never EV" guys crack me up. If you don't want one, cool. Why **** on people who do....lol

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Because this all goes back to Democrats mandating EVs for the populace. If they had let the market work organically along the way, you would never have seen this much vitriol towards them.

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110%, and I would add in the smugness/'good for you' attitude of the early adopters.

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You're just jealous we single-handedly staved off global warming. Al Gore (not only invented the internet) but predicted global catastrophe by now. Obviously, we prevented that.

Also that @!#%$& DEF I have to put in my diesel truck or the computer shuts me down. Thank God for that. I love that SOOO much.

You're welcome.

cecil77 said:

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First experience in a Tesla this week in my brother's Model Y.

And yes, it's the FSD which makes it a Tesla. The EV part (other than the awesome acceleration) is inconsequential, and what's holding it back from more massive sales. Also, it's not a "luxury" car in fit and finish. My Black Label Lincoln is a much nicer vehicle.

Put that FSD in a top tier brand (Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Lincoln/Cadillac/Lexus/Genesis and they'd far surpas Tesla as vehicles.

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Agreed. The one time I've been inside a Tesla it was the cheapest feeling car I've been in. And drab as hell.

Conversely, go look at the Cadillac lineup right now. Beautiful damn vehicles but I have zero clue if they have anything remotely like FSD. So that's the current tradeoff.

I'm not saving the planet with my electric pickup truck. I'll rip cigarettes in the cab, mag dump my ARs in the bed, and burn rubber on the streets …and I know when I charge the truck up, that juice was generated mostly from natural gas or coal fired power plants!

cecil77 said:

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First experience in a Tesla this week in my brother's Model Y.

And yes, it's the FSD which makes it a Tesla. The EV part (other than the awesome acceleration) is inconsequential, and what's holding it back from more massive sales. Also, it's not a "luxury" car in fit and finish. My Black Label Lincoln is a much nicer vehicle.

Put that FSD in a top tier brand (Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Lincoln/Cadillac/Lexus/Genesis and they'd far surpas Tesla as vehicles.

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I couldn't own one. Every time I see a Lincoln I think of this guy:

Model X plaid for 2 years now. We put on around 30k miles a year chasing youth sports, wanted the mobile living room & cheaper operating costs originally.

Started as the family minivan, but FSD improvements about a year ago make it the choice almost every time we go anywhere. Had a choice recently between a 10 hour ICE trip in the Land Cruiser, a 11.5 in the Tesla or 9 in flights and rental cars.

To us, that's a no brainer. Legitimately makes you complain and frustrates you when you have to actually do something while in FSD - like press the lane change signal, or choose a different route it didn't automatically. 20 seconds of activity over a 5 minute, 20 or 100 minute ride but it really does make you audibly complain... How quickly you get used to it and then expect perfection is incredible.

Only regret was not buying 2 Ys instead of 1 X. We live in a city, but anyone that has less than 200 miles of daily driving or towing needs should look past biases. And even then, towing needs could be complimented well I imagine to improve cost per mile on the heavy duty activity.

If Elon hits his $0.20/mile operating cost on cybercabs, this will be moot for anyone in metro areas anyways.

I had to self-drive (like a damn savage) in my pickup truck to the airport last night to pick up four friends. They wouldn't all fit and had too much luggage for the Tesla.

It was terrible.

cecil77 said:

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First experience in a Tesla this week in my brother's Model Y.

And yes, it's the FSD which makes it a Tesla. The EV part (other than the awesome acceleration) is inconsequential, and what's holding it back from more massive sales. Also, it's not a "luxury" car in fit and finish. My Black Label Lincoln is a much nicer vehicle.

Put that FSD in a top tier brand (Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Lincoln/Cadillac/Lexus/Genesis and they'd far surpas Tesla as vehicles.

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It's not marketed as a luxury car. It's a $39k crossover SUV which puts it in the same category as a Toyota RAV4 or Honda CRV

GeorgiAg said:

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Teslag said:

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Supposedly you can just wear sunglasses and you'll never have to take the wheel at all in a 50 mile drive after a concert to your house.

Supposedly.

I'd never do this.

Ever.

Just supposedly.

You can even doze off for a few minutes.

Supposedly.

You may even wake up as it's pulling into your driveway.

Again supposedly.

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If I'm wearing sunglasses and don't move my head for a few minutes, my Tesla goes nuts. It also goes nuts when I wear a baseball cap.

I didn't have my reading glasses one night, so I wore sunglasses with bifocals and Tesla went nuts - made me take over the vehicle.

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Interestting.

My manager has one and wears sunglasses when he drives from east bay (san fran) to Nevada to visit his parents so he can "rest" on the way. He's never had an experience like that.

The FSD is very compelling, and will continue to increase motivation. Esp for older ppl. If you're satisfied with the per-charge mileage, then buying one seems to be a very reasonable course of action. Also, you mention the increased expected lifetime - combine that with the 8-yr warranty on the batteries and you should be good-to-go. (Real-world experiences show about 2.3% degradation per year, leaving ~8182% capacity after 8 years)

As for me, I still enjoy my RAM 2500, but have also been looking at getting a Tesla for my wife.

GeorgiAg said:

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I had to self-drive (like a damn savage) in my pickup truck to the airport last night to pick up four friends. They wouldn't all fit and had too much luggage for the Tesla.

It was terrible.

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Oh no! How many wrecks did you have?

Driving vehicles is going to be another lost skill in 50 years time. No one will know how to do it that isn't old. Which is frankly a bit concerning. Yet another function we are going to automate with little manual backup.

It'll will eventually be outlawed if Dems are in control. Red Barchetta has become reality.

Logos Stick said:

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It'll will eventually be outlawed if Dems are in control. Red Barchetta has become reality.

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Well, yes, they took those first steps with the Infrastructure Bill. Between 1984 federal nanny tech that is coming as early as 2027 combined with having to pay a subscription for your car, we are already damn close.

Of course, I fully expect means tested subscriptions for the "disproportionately impacted" as soon as FSD becomes ubiquitous.

One upon a time, in an age far, far past:

The fit and finish is a bit cheap even compared to those. Without FSD it couldn't compete well.

And I couldn't sft two large suitcases wheelchair and a walker in any Tesla very well I don't think. Fits easily in the Aviator. I'd be willing to pay a ton for the FSD on it.

But yes dependence upon it does concern me over the years as a societal thing.

Logos Stick said:

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It'll will eventually be outlawed if Dems are in control. Red Barchetta has become reality.

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Nah. What's going to happen is the self-drive insurance rates are going to be prohibitive. You can self drive, but it's gonna cost ya.

I could see urban areas outlawing it tho.

cecil77 said:

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The fit and finish is a bit cheap even compared to those. Without FSD it couldn't compete well.

And I couldn't sft two large suitcases wheelchair and a walker in any Tesla very well I don't think. Fits easily in the Aviator. I'd be willing to pay a ton for the FSD on it.

But yes dependence upon it does concern me over the years as a societal thing.

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It competes plenty well without FSD. Most are sold without it as it used to be a $12k option and is only available now as a $100 a month subscription.

Approximately only 12 to 19 percent of Teslas have FSD and it's one of the most popular and best selling cars in the world. FSD has only recently become very reliable and it's never been a product mover for Tesla.

It is now. The car's are meh unless you're enthralled with EV.

cecil77 said:

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It is now. The car's are meh unless you're enthralled with EV.

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Again, if they were meh they wouldn't be one of the best selling cars in the world even without FSD.

Even now FSD still isn't widely purchased by Tesla owners/buyers. Today. In the now.

GeorgiAg said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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YouBet said:

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SteveA said:

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The amount of people that are "Never EV" guys crack me up. If you don't want one, cool. Why **** on people who do....lol

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Because this all goes back to Democrats mandating EVs for the populace. If they had let the market work organically along the way, you would never have seen this much vitriol towards them.

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110%, and I would add in the smugness/'good for you' attitude of the early adopters.

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You're just jealous we single-handedly staved off global warming. Al Gore (not only invented the internet) but predicted global catastrophe by now. Obviously, we prevented that.

Also that @!#%$& DEF I have to put in my diesel truck or the computer shuts me down. Thank God for that. I love that SOOO much.

You're welcome.

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Wait until GPF becomes more widespread it's already on 3.5 Ecoboost F150 engines bound for California, which means it's coming for the rest of us in a few years.

Meh

I will consider one when you do not have to supervise the self driving. I want to wake up, brush teeth and get in car, go back to sleep, when I wake up I want to be at work. Then I will put on my jeans and Magellan fishing shirt for work. Then I can take another nap on the way home, so the ole lady doesn't get mad about me for napping when I get home

cecil77 said:

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The fit and finish is a bit cheap even compared to those. Without FSD it couldn't compete well.

And I couldn't sft two large suitcases wheelchair and a walker in any Tesla very well I don't think. Fits easily in the Aviator. I'd be willing to pay a ton for the FSD on it.

But yes dependence upon it does concern me over the years as a societal thing.

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Give me a break, man. A model 3/Y has heated + ventilated front seats, comfortable chairs made out of whatever durable fake leather material people use these days, a heated steering wheel, a wireless charging pad, and something like 15 good speakers (I think Harman Kardon). The software experience is also top notch, though it takes some getting used to. Overall, the 3/Y level is not premium, but it definitely is not "a bit cheap" compared to a freakin Honda CRV.

I say they're about as nice as a BMW 3 series, though it is more of a minimalist look. (My wife has a 2022 x3 so I'm in good position to compare.)

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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cecil77 said:

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The fit and finish is a bit cheap even compared to those. Without FSD it couldn't compete well.

And I couldn't sft two large suitcases wheelchair and a walker in any Tesla very well I don't think. Fits easily in the Aviator. I'd be willing to pay a ton for the FSD on it.

But yes dependence upon it does concern me over the years as a societal thing.

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Give me a break, man. A model 3/Y has heated + ventilated front seats, comfortable chairs made out of whatever durable fake leather material people use these days, a heated steering wheel, a wireless charging pad, and something like 15 good speakers (I think Harman Kardon). The software experience is also top notch, though it takes some getting used to. Overall, the 3/Y level is not premium, but it definitely is not "a bit cheap" compared to a freakin Honda CRV.

I say they're about as nice as a BMW 3 series, though it is more of a minimalist look. (My wife has a 2022 x3 so I'm in good position to compare.)

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Yep, quite the two are quite similar. I've owned both. The FSD on the Tesla is amazing. I rarely drive the car myself anymore.

Mecedes Benz is coming out with the SLA240?? or something like that with their version of FSD. Interested in seeing if they've actually caught up with Tesla.

With all the stroking going on in this thread, I think I'm going to launch a line of Tesla branded golf towels.

Nobody is remotely close to Tesla on FSD and won't be for a long while.

tk for tu juan said:

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Collision numbers from Tesla's side:
https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety

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Tesla under FSD is so much safer and better driver than the avg human but the narrative will always be

1 accident on FSD - Look at that, avg humans would never make that mistake

100 human accidents - nothing to see here, just bad driving

We are a family of 3 EVs and soon to be 4 EVs without an ICE. We tow our boat on occasion and my MX will beat most trucks in towing.

Started with a MY 5 yrs ago and wife reluctant to change b/c of range.... blah... blah... blah.
After 1 yr, she took the MY when avail.... Eventually traded in her ICE for MX
Daughter with a bolt so she can learn to drive in a small car and wreck it for all I care
Daughter going to college will get a MY

Current MY has 100K and still 85% charge and that hasn't changed much for the past 50K miles. First 30k, you lose 10% then it flattens to no change last 25K miles. I doubt I will ever need a new battery and many reports that of Teslas in the 200K+ range on original batter with little degredation.

I have yet to meet someone that gave a Tsla a honest change and didn't go away wanting one. I drive about 30K miles a year and will never go back to an ICE.

BTW, FSD is a game changer. Drove Austin to BCS today and never touched the wheel. Drove better than 99% of the drivers on the road.

Those complaint that Tsla looks cheap all comes down to preference. I like the minimalist look without 50 buttons/dials. I prefer opening the glovebox and other voice commands without finding buttons. I like regular updates over having a stagnant car. The sound is better than many luxury cars. The seats are more comfortable than any I have driven in.

I will say that car wears well compared to my old X5. 100K and 3 yrs, and it looks/feels the same. My X5 started to have things fade/creeks/stain/crack. Maybe it is because in the Texas heat, the X5 interior gets to 180 while my MY/MX never gets above 100.

I bought a Lightning on whim. Used, great deal. It is blisteringly fast and I do not want it to drive itself. I want to continue flooring it every chance I get. So much fun to drive.

Quote:

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…my MX will beat most trucks in towing.

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This is a laughable claim

For my short tows and boat size, the torque and stability IMO would beat most trucks. Definitely not great for long hauls.