Ulrich said:

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larry culpepper said:

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P.U.T.U said:

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Chauvin followed what his department said to do whether it was good or not. Floyd was yelling I cannot breath for about 8 minutes and Chauvin did not reposition during that time. There is too much reasonable doubt and the fact that he followed protocol and there is speculation about drugs causing the death there is a good chance he is not guilty on the murder charge.

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The bolded part is a pretty damning fact for Chauvin...

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Not really. Every time he yelled, it confirmed to Chauvin that Floyd actually could breathe. If there were any kind of real choking going on, it would have been over in less than 3 minutes. And Floyd had tried a number of different strategies to get less restraint, claiming claustrophobia and so forth.

Reposition and you risk losing physical control of a larger suspect or shifting to a position where you actually are preventing him from breathing.

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aggiehawg said:

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You do realize that the policy and the manual were changed after the Floyd incident, more than once in fact. The judge ruled that discussion of the changes to policy or training subsequent to event are inadmissible.

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larry culpepper said:

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I'm interested in seeing the toxicology and autopsy results and any expert testimony on this subject, however.

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Quote:

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I'm interested in seeing the toxicology and autopsy results and any expert testimony on this subject, however.

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richardag said:

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2PacShakur said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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He was healthy enough to play basketball regularly and helped move some furniture so he wasn't going to "pop".

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Assuming facts not in evidence. Can you say he had three times the lethal dose of fentanyl and meth in his system during such exertions? No you cannot. Therefore, irrelevant to this case.

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So, he's both a habitual user and also couldn't tolerate the drug he was abusing?

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Do you have evidence showing how much physical exertion George made while playing basketball or moving furniture. I am 69 and have done both and can assure you my cardiopulmonary system was not stressed.

Please present your ekgs, blood pressure and heart rate data.

The average fentanyl level in overdose cases is ~10 ng/ml. George's was 11 with what, about 5 ng/ml nor fentanyl with speed and other drugs. He had an enlarged heart and othe cardiopulmonary complications.

The guy committed suicide and anyone dicking around with fentanyl and speed needs to stop immediately. I believe there were over 70,000 overdoses total in the US in 2019 with close to 40% from fentanyl. Its lethal dose is minuscule compared to othe drugs and must be cut by first dispersing in a liquid and extraction which illegal drug manufacturers don't do resulting in very high lethal spikes in the concentration.

https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/07/what-is-a-fatal-dose-of-fentanyl/

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ruddyduck said:

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Quote:

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I'm interested in seeing the toxicology and autopsy results and any expert testimony on this subject, however.

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so you've done zero research (or even read this thread for that information) but you're in here dropping hot takes about what you believed (hoped?) happened.

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aggiehawg said:

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You do realize that the policy and the manual were changed after the Floyd incident, more than once in fact. The judge ruled that discussion of the changes to policy or training subsequent to event are inadmissible.

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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STATE'S RESPONSE OPPOSING DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS FOR LACK OF PROBABLE CAUSE

Under MPD policies in effect at the time of Floyd's death, the most extreme uses of forceMRT, Neck Restraints, and Deadly Forceare reserved for the most extreme situations. Officers are trained to use the MRT only "where handcuffed subjects are combative and still pose a threat to themselves, officers or others, or could cause significant damage to property if not properly restrained." Id. at 5-316(IV)(A)(1). "As soon as reasonably possible, any person restrained using the MRT who is in the prone position"that is, on his or her stomach"shall be placed" in "the side recovery position" if "the hobble restraint device is used." Id. at 5- 316(IV)(B)(1). Officers are instructed that, "as soon as possible," they must "[p]lace a restrained subject on their side in order to reduce pressure on his/her chest and facilitate breathing." Exhibit 3, 2019 MPD Use of Force Manual, at 3.

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Quote:

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I have done research, and I was contributing to a discussion about the facts before you dropped in and started trolling

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2PacShakur said:

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aggiehawg said:

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You do realize that the policy and the manual were changed after the Floyd incident, more than once in fact. The judge ruled that discussion of the changes to policy or training subsequent to event are inadmissible.

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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STATE'S RESPONSE OPPOSING DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS FOR LACK OF PROBABLE CAUSE

Under MPD policies in effect at the time of Floyd's death, the most extreme uses of forceMRT, Neck Restraints, and Deadly Forceare reserved for the most extreme situations. Officers are trained to use the MRT only "where handcuffed subjects are combative and still pose a threat to themselves, officers or others, or could cause significant damage to property if not properly restrained." Id. at 5-316(IV)(A)(1). "As soon as reasonably possible, any person restrained using the MRT who is in the prone position"that is, on his or her stomach"shall be placed" in "the side recovery position" if "the hobble restraint device is used." Id. at 5- 316(IV)(B)(1). Officers are instructed that, "as soon as possible," they must "[p]lace a restrained subject on their side in order to reduce pressure on his/her chest and facilitate breathing." Exhibit 3, 2019 MPD Use of Force Manual, at 3.

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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"Under MPD policies in effect at the time of Floyd's death, the most extreme uses of force MRT, Neck Restraints, and Deadly Force are reserved for the most extreme situations. Officers are trained to use the MRT only "where handcuffed subjects are combative and still pose a threat to themselves, officers or others, or could cause significant damage to property if not properly restrained." Id. at 5-316(IV)(A)(1). "As soon as reasonably possible, any person restrained using the MRT who is in the prone position "that is, on his or her stomach "shall be placed" in "the side recovery position" if "the hobble restraint device is used." Id. at 5- 316(IV)(B)(1). Officers are instructed that, "as soon as possible," they must "[p]lace a restrained subject on their side in order to reduce pressure on his/her chest and facilitate breathing." Exhibit 3, 2019 MPD Use of Force Manual, at 3."

That didn't happen. Policy was not being followed.

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Rendered Fat said:

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AgBQ-00 said:

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My guess as to the outcome:

This is before any of the evidence/questioning etc. This jury will convict out of fear of the mob.

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That's exactly what's going to happen unfortunately.

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the enigma said:

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Carolin_Gallego said:

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"Under MPD policies in effect at the time of Floyd's death, the most extreme uses of force MRT, Neck Restraints, and Deadly Force are reserved for the most extreme situations. Officers are trained to use the MRT only "where handcuffed subjects are combative and still pose a threat to themselves, officers or others, or could cause significant damage to property if not properly restrained." Id. at 5-316(IV)(A)(1). "As soon as reasonably possible, any person restrained using the MRT who is in the prone position "that is, on his or her stomach "shall be placed" in "the side recovery position" if "the hobble restraint device is used." Id. at 5- 316(IV)(B)(1). Officers are instructed that, "as soon as possible," they must "[p]lace a restrained subject on their side in order to reduce pressure on his/her chest and facilitate breathing." Exhibit 3, 2019 MPD Use of Force Manual, at 3."

That didn't happen. Policy was not being followed.

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I don't recall seeing it or it being mentioned, was the hobble device used in this case?

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Rendered Fat said:

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AgBQ-00 said:

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My guess as to the outcome:

This is before any of the evidence/questioning etc. This jury will convict out of fear of the mob.

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That's exactly what's going to happen unfortunately.

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Quote:

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At 8:27:24, the defendant removed his knee from Mr. Floyd's neck. An ambulance and emergency medical personnel arrived, the officers placed Mr. Floyd on a gurney, and the ambulance left the scene. Mr. Floyd was pronounced dead at Hennepin County Medical Center.

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner (ME) conducted Mr. Floyd's autopsy on May 26, 2020. The full report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.

The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total. Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.

Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous.

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ruddyduck said:

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Quote:

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I have done research, and I was contributing to a discussion about the facts before you dropped in and started trolling

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all that research yet you were unaware the toxicology and autopsy reports were available? what research were you doing? you could have just read this thread you're currently posting on to know that.

it's funny how you keep trying to make me out to be a troll or emotional for simply pointing out when i smell bull*****

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2PacShakur said:

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richardag said:

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2PacShakur said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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He was healthy enough to play basketball regularly and helped move some furniture so he wasn't going to "pop".

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Assuming facts not in evidence. Can you say he had three times the lethal dose of fentanyl and meth in his system during such exertions? No you cannot. Therefore, irrelevant to this case.

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So, he's both a habitual user and also couldn't tolerate the drug he was abusing?

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Do you have evidence showing how much physical exertion George made while playing basketball or moving furniture. I am 69 and have done both and can assure you my cardiopulmonary system was not stressed.

Please present your ekgs, blood pressure and heart rate data.

The average fentanyl level in overdose cases is ~10 ng/ml. George's was 11 with what, about 5 ng/ml nor fentanyl with speed and other drugs. He had an enlarged heart and othe cardiopulmonary complications.

The guy committed suicide and anyone dicking around with fentanyl and speed needs to stop immediately. I believe there were over 70,000 overdoses total in the US in 2019 with close to 40% from fentanyl. Its lethal dose is minuscule compared to othe drugs and must be cut by first dispersing in a liquid and extraction which illegal drug manufacturers don't do resulting in very high lethal spikes in the concentration.

https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/07/what-is-a-fatal-dose-of-fentanyl/

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After Lane noted Floyd looked passed out and they first couldn't detect a pulse about 6:30 minutes into the 9+ minutes Chauvin had his knee on Floyd. They checked again for a second time and there still wasn't a pulse. Do you suspect Floyd's heart stopped after playing basketball or while moving? Do you believe Floyd's heart just stops pulsing for period of a time?

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