The Rangers can be called in. It will take HPD or the DAs office to do that. I would expect that to happen. FBI could get involved also because of public corruption.

cbr said:

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1 i am friends with lots of leo's
2 i am all for good law enforcement
3 i am extremely harsh on real criminals

However,
4 not saying it is, or even is likely, but i am just going to point out that people might should reserve judgment;

It has certainly happened that a bunch of hpd barged in on totally innocent people and filled them full of lead in their sleep in their own houses. That was largely covered up for a long time. Many people keep weapons ready against home invasions. It is entirely possible, though unlikely, that the suspects had done absolutely nothing wrong except shoot back against a home invasion.

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Aaaaand at risk of being an 'i told you so' jerk, im just going to leave my first (very unpopular at the time) post from page 2. I bring it up not to be a jerk, but to circle back and say i know more about hpd's sausage making than most. And the only thing all that unlikely about it was two innocent victims got some effective return fire in.

I have a friend that is hpd and has a very high kill count himself. I have a friend that lives in the houston criminal justice system. I knew turner before he was mayor, and he is not any kind of decent texan imo. I worked with a lot of hpd, sherrifs, constables at one point.

People need to be very careful of law enforcement. They need more appropriate support, but also much more oversight, and we need to absolutely abolish 90% of the laws and jurisprudence that give them their direction, leeway, and goals.

Quote:

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The article about Goines being untruthful in a previous case would not open for me

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This might be the article that was linked...

Houston police officer in drug raid had previous allegations against him

cbr, I certainly disagree with your belief that we need to do away with most of the powers law enforcement uses to combat the bad guys. But this is without a doubt a bad deal that looked fishy from the get-go. Looking for black tar heroin in a white neighborhood is out of the norm. The neighbors not seeing any signs that this couple had been selling drugs. The lying officers past problems and, from what I have learned, 2 bags of heroin found in the officer's car all scream problems.

There will be fallout from this and not just in Harris County. law enforcement throughout the state will feel the effects from this and I anticipate the state legislature will react since this happened during a legislative session. Bad, bad bad all the way around.

Edit: Thanks for the link to that article. I am a retired elected District Attorney and, as mentioned above, am still somewhat active and do some teaching. If I was the Harris County DA, my decision would be easy. I would concede error on the one case that is still on appeal that Goines was the case agent on and I would dismiss all other cases in which Goines was an active participant. The good guys--prosecutors and law enforcement--HAVE to do things the right way. I cannot ask a jury or judge to send a person to prison if I don't believe law enforcement officers or the confidential informant who are involved in the case.

The long term repercussions may be bad. Bad facts make bad law. Law enforcement across the entire state may lose some abilities that help fight crime. And, is spite of what some think, very, very few cops cross the line and do things the wrong way.

Make them do real policework right, respect due process, and only work real crimes. Then back them up with executions for conviction for serious crimes. Pretty simple. No ex con culture. No repeat offenders. But no....

It was a redirect from google. Here's the direct link: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Houston-police-officer-in-drug-raid-had-previous-13621276.php

Send in the Houston Crime Lab, oh wait

HTownAg98 said:

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Goines also has a really bad habit of fabricating evidence. This isn't his first time.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiskIDAssDgAhWoy4MKHTjlCUwQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.houstonchronicle.com%2Fnews%2Fhouston-texas%2Fhouston%2Farticle%2FHouston-police-officer-in-drug-raid-had-previous-13621276.php&psig=AOvVaw3YZC4hAmf2DIXGeJTyLlJB&ust=1550411351170776

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Dude sounds like bad news. There were certainly red flags all over the place

ttha_aggie_09 said:

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wbt5845 said:

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ttha_aggie_09 said:

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The gunman has been put down, according to Mayor Sylvester Turner.

F whoever did this... I hope it was slow and painful

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Someone defending their home against an illegal police raid?

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Mark this down as a lesson for me not to rush to judgement... I am sorry for doing so, especially given the facts that are out now.

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It's cool - most police (I think) are decent people trying to keep our community safe. But there are a few bad eggs out there for sure.

Thanks! Appreciate your insight on this thread.

Fortunately the public has tremendous power over the elected officials who are ultimately responsible for this and that pressure is usually quite effective if applied aggressively by the voting public. The government often allows these legal actions to go forth or settles. Sovereign Immunity does not protect AT ALL against criminal corruption. If a government official commits a crime, they have no protection.

Public corruption has to be treated harshly and aggressively. It is intolerable. But law enforcement is also a necessary function of government for maintaining some reasonable level of public order, so we cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater. They need to be able to do what is lawful and expected of them but with proper and adequate oversight.

I'm reading the story about the history of Goines and I'm picturing him as Vic Mackey from the Shield.

I do not live in Harris County, but the voting public there does not give me any confidence of making the right decision on any issue.

W said:

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looks like the strategy will be to blame Goines for everything...so everybody else in the department can skate

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Hope that's not the case.

I'm upset the cops broke the law to bust real drugs dealers. Do some good old fashioned police work, the right way.

cbr said:

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cbr said:

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1 i am friends with lots of leo's
2 i am all for good law enforcement
3 i am extremely harsh on real criminals

However,
4 not saying it is, or even is likely, but i am just going to point out that people might should reserve judgment;

It has certainly happened that a bunch of hpd barged in on totally innocent people and filled them full of lead in their sleep in their own houses. That was largely covered up for a long time. Many people keep weapons ready against home invasions. It is entirely possible, though unlikely, that the suspects had done absolutely nothing wrong except shoot back against a home invasion.

---

Aaaaand at risk of being an 'i told you so' jerk, im just going to leave my first (very unpopular at the time) post from page 2. I bring it up not to be a jerk, but to circle back and say i know more about hpd's sausage making than most. And the only thing all that unlikely about it was two innocent victims got some effective return fire in.

I have a friend that is hpd and has a very high kill count himself. I have a friend that lives in the houston criminal justice system. I knew turner before he was mayor, and he is not any kind of decent texan imo. I worked with a lot of hpd, sherrifs, constables at one point.

People need to be very careful of law enforcement. They need more appropriate support, but also much more oversight, and we need to absolutely abolish 90% of the laws and jurisprudence that give them their direction, leeway, and goals.

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In your professional opinion, what does "very few cops cross the line and do things the wrong way" mean?

So did they really not recover the .357 revolver that they said Tuttle was using? Or do they not list it because it was supposedly used in the invasion? I find that (among a bunch of other things) really strange. If they didn't recover it then why would they ever state he had that specific weapon? Finally, what type of weapon do most cops carry?

Nvm, already posted

quanah said:

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It turns out the cops lied to obtain the search warrant, they said an informant bought heroin from the residence, but no such thing ever happened. They planned to plant evidence at the scene, two bags of heroin were found in one of the officer's vehicles, and none at the home. The cops murdered those two people, they never had any probable cause to be there, much less execute a no knock raid.



https://abc13.com/amp/warrant-informant-didnt-buy-drugs-from-couple-killed-in-raid/5140341/?__twitter_impression=true

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I wonder what the motive for doing this was?

Maybe it was just another notch on the belt so to speak. Pick poor people that can't mount a legal defense and pin a crime on them.

Cop gets another gold star in his folder.

Let the Art Acevedo PR campaign begin.

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=46604

dBoy99 said:

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Nosh said:

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I'm upset the cops broke the law to bust real drugs dealers. Do some good old fashioned police work, the right way.

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How certain are we that they were drug dealers? Maybe the cops went and killed a guy who had a little weed, some deer rifles, and two duck guns.

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Yes you're right, and that wasn't the point of my post. Whether he was (and esp if he wasn't a dealer) I'm upset that cops were the criminals here.

I agree.

however with all the statements coming out about..."don't paint with a broad brush"...and "not indicative of the whole police force" etc..,

it's setting up for everything to be dumped on one maybe two officers. The chief and the union have already revealed their defense so to speak

W said:

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I agree.

however with all the statements coming out about..."don't paint with a broad brush"...and "not indicative of the whole police force" etc..,

it's setting up for everything to be dumped on one maybe two officers. The chief and the union have already revealed their defense so to speak

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Last thing the Chief wants is people questioning how HPD operates. If their chief or mayor had any balls all no knock warrants should be banned u til they can come up with system that guarantees this doesn't happen again

Nosh said:

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In your professional opinion, what does "very few cops cross the line and do things the wrong way" mean?

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After giving this alot of thought, I typed out a lengthy and well thought out response. Then it suddenly disappeared. I won't re-type it all. The 2 in Houston in this case are criminals. There are very few of those in law enforcement. I sent a sheriff to prison when I was DA. Another sheriff in Presidio County went to the pen. These 2 were criminals. In the last 10 years 2-5 were prosecuted in the RGV, as was the DA in Brownsville, Of course, I am not counting the ones who get DWIs or even family violence cases. Those don't have anything to do with their profession.

Most of the problems are caused by officers who are not smart enough to know what they are doing is wrong. Felony stupid, like the current Texas Attorney General.

For the ones calling for no more "no knock" warrants, they are certainly over used. But they are absolutely needed. When LE rolls up to a house at 6:00 am of a known Mexican Mafia member with security cameras on every corner of the house, cops might as well be wearing a target as they stand at the door and knock. They do a job I want no part of, and I have accompanied them on search warrants in west Texas, San Antonio and Houston.

Quote:

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I have a friend that is hpd and has a very high kill count himself.

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What is your friend's "kill count?" Most policemen can go their whole careers without ever having to fire a gun in the line of duty. A guy with multiple kills should be pretty notorious.

dBoy99 said:

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Nosh said:

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I'm upset the cops broke the law to bust real drugs dealers. Do some good old fashioned police work, the right way.

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How certain are we that they were drug dealers? Maybe the cops went and killed a guy who had a little weed, some deer rifles, and two duck guns.

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So, most of this bored