Quote:
I don't really get the cops strategy either. Why can't they utilize other tools at their disposal instead of busting in old school style
Wow. Gas attacks, snipers, and apc's in our neighborhoods against unconvicted people are not at all what i was getting at. I mean....not at all. How can that even cross your mind?Ag for Life said:cbr said:
I am totally against this antifa/blm/anti cop stuff but this union guys' statement is off base as well.
Officers are not being 'targeted' in this case. When cops bust in a door, they know they are going to be shot at. They are instigating violence.
If they are correct, and the people inside are extremely bad actors that are a danger to society, then doing that work is a heroes' job, but they know the bad guys are sure to shoot back.
If they are incorrect, well, many or most people are going to react to their door being kicked in with gunfire. And that is a tragedy no matter how it goes down.
You shouldnt bust in doors unless there is an extremely high level of confidence in what you are doing, for instance that
1 everyone inside is either an extremely dangerous criminal or is a victim in immediate danger
2 they have the element of surprise
3 the suspected crimes and the evidence expected to be recovered is worth the high risk to everyone involved
Honestly i cant comprehend the stupidity of it all. We have **** all over pre-conviction freedom and due process, but also **** all over everyone by failing to punish convicted criminals. If these suspects were serious criminals, what are the odds they have a prior record? High. Very high. If we would just execute serious criminals officers wouldnt have to risk themselves over and over again like this.
I don't really get the cops strategy either. Why can't they utilize other tools at their disposal instead of busting in old school style. I've probably watched too many movies but what about cutting holes in some of the windows and gassing them out? Cut power/water/gas to the house and wait them out? Flash/concussion grenades? Run the house over with their fancy APC and then pick off the runners with snipers?
I know I'm getting a bit ridiculous but there's a very high probability you're gonna get shot doing it the way they did. There have got to be better strategies out there.
CanyonAg77 said:Quote:
I don't really get the cops strategy either. Why can't they utilize other tools at their disposal instead of busting in old school style
David Koresh went jogging every morning, but instead of arresting him then, they did a commando raid. Stupid.
Similar thing here. The bad guys leave the house at some point. Quietly pick them up, one by one.
I think the union guy's statement was on point, the timing was just off. He's probably been waiting to go on this rant for some time now and figured it was his chance since the cameras were finally on him. Society (on the left and in minority communities) has gotten so "anti-cop" it is ridiculous...and, while there certainly are a relative few "bad apples", their "F the po-lice" sentiment is largely unfounded and is dangerous when spread.cbr said:Wow. Gas attacks, snipers, and apc's in our neighborhoods against unconvicted people are not at all what i was getting at. I mean....not at all. How can that even cross your mind?Ag for Life said:cbr said:
I am totally against this antifa/blm/anti cop stuff but this union guys' statement is off base as well.
Officers are not being 'targeted' in this case. When cops bust in a door, they know they are going to be shot at. They are instigating violence.
If they are correct, and the people inside are extremely bad actors that are a danger to society, then doing that work is a heroes' job, but they know the bad guys are sure to shoot back.
If they are incorrect, well, many or most people are going to react to their door being kicked in with gunfire. And that is a tragedy no matter how it goes down.
You shouldnt bust in doors unless there is an extremely high level of confidence in what you are doing, for instance that
1 everyone inside is either an extremely dangerous criminal or is a victim in immediate danger
2 they have the element of surprise
3 the suspected crimes and the evidence expected to be recovered is worth the high risk to everyone involved
Honestly i cant comprehend the stupidity of it all. We have **** all over pre-conviction freedom and due process, but also **** all over everyone by failing to punish convicted criminals. If these suspects were serious criminals, what are the odds they have a prior record? High. Very high. If we would just execute serious criminals officers wouldnt have to risk themselves over and over again like this.
I don't really get the cops strategy either. Why can't they utilize other tools at their disposal instead of busting in old school style. I've probably watched too many movies but what about cutting holes in some of the windows and gassing them out? Cut power/water/gas to the house and wait them out? Flash/concussion grenades? Run the house over with their fancy APC and then pick off the runners with snipers?
I know I'm getting a bit ridiculous but there's a very high probability you're gonna get shot doing it the way they did. There have got to be better strategies out there.
This sounds like some sort of disease. My Rhogena has flared up. I can barely sit down.Quote:
Rhogena
I would assume because the officers work undercover narcotics.Fenrir said:
What reason would there not be a body camera?
It does, but that is how the chief spelled it, twice, during the press conference.Old Tom Morris said:This sounds like some sort of disease. My Rhogena has flared up. I can barely sit down.Quote:
Rhogena
Rapier108 said:
From the press conference.
First officer entering was armed with a shotgun.
He was attacked by a pitbull which he shot and killed.
First suspect opened fire with a .357 magnum, striking the first officer. A female suspect went for the dropped shotgun, and the other officers shot and killed her. The rest was a gunfight between the first suspect and the officers.
First officer is 54, and has been shot 3 times in the line of duty, first in 1992 and again in 1997 before yesterday.
One officer they the family has asked nothing be released, but from the chief's comments, it sounds like this officer's condition is the most serious.
There are no body cameras.
The people in the house were Rhogena Nicolas, 58, white female and Dennis Tuttle, 59 white male.
They did not discuss their criminal history if any.
Found in the house
Weed
White powder (likely either cocaine or fentanyl)
Two 12 gauge shotguns, one 20 gauge shotgun, one .22 rifle, a Remington 700
b_rad said:
Wonder why acevedo didn't describe the suspect/dealers that were killed? Hhmmmmmmm.....
From hot take to freezing cold in mere hours.b_rad said:
Wonder why acevedo didn't describe the suspect/dealers that were killed? Hhmmmmmmm.....
Personal insults are all you have?whatthehey78 said:I assume you are unaware that nearly ALL PD's are understaffed with little (if any) likelihood of meeting its staffing needs. Using officers in the patient manner you suggest is not sustainable and actually makes staffing even more futile with fewer officers on the street. With all due respect, why don't you go volunteer your services and wear their shoes for awhile?CanyonAg77 said:Quote:
I don't really get the cops strategy either. Why can't they utilize other tools at their disposal instead of busting in old school style
David Koresh went jogging every morning, but instead of arresting him then, they did a commando raid. Stupid.
Similar thing here. The bad guys leave the house at some point. Quietly pick them up, one by one.
Yeah...I didn't think so.
Yeah, I was trying to figure out how two people shot 5 cops.Deats said:
So the cops shot each other?
So b_rad why do you think Acevedo decided to not describe these scum bags?b_rad said:
Wonder why acevedo didn't describe the suspect/dealers that were killed? Hhmmmmmmm.....
The "R" is silent.Old Tom Morris said:This sounds like some sort of disease. My Rhogena has flared up. I can barely sit down.Quote:
Rhogena
this makes one wonder if the police were thinking easy time creating havoc so likelihood of bad guy shooting back was low....but busting down the door then shooting the dog....strong-arm tactic didn't work to their advantage98Ag99Grad said:
Suspect info
- The couple had been in this house since 1998 ( listed on the marriage lisence from then anyway)
- Male has no criminal history in Harris county
- Female wrote a bad check in 2010 but paid restitution and case dismissed
- No other criminal history in US Ch2 could find
CanyonAg77 said:Yeah, I was trying to figure out how two people shot 5 cops.Deats said:
So the cops shot each other?
Love Gun said:Kenneth_2003 said:
50 yr old sgt
50 yr old sgt flown
54 yr old sr case agent, shot before
54 yr old, flown
33 yr old.
Sorry, chief was hard to follow there
That is some old officers they've got kicking doors.
CanyonAg77 said:Quote:
I don't really get the cops strategy either. Why can't they utilize other tools at their disposal instead of busting in old school style
David Koresh went jogging every morning, but instead of arresting him then, they did a commando raid. Stupid.
Similar thing here. The bad guys leave the house at some point. Quietly pick them up, one by one.
want to retract this now that you've seen the suspects' pictures?b_rad said:
Wonder why acevedo didn't describe the suspect/dealers that were killed? Hhmmmmmmm.....
cbr said:
honestly anyone busting into a home deserves to be shot, unless they are TRULY preventing a SERIOUS, IMMINENT crime.
You disagree with me, all of my Law Enforcement Officer friends then, along with basically every american that ever lived.BMX Bandit said:cbr said:
honestly anyone busting into a home deserves to be shot, unless they are TRULY preventing a SERIOUS, IMMINENT crime.
Honestly, saying police deserve to be shot in some situations when not breaking any law & have valid warrant is one of more disgusting things I've read here ever.
