BREAKING: Several Houston police officers shot

74,811 Views | 524 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Righteousgemstone
UTExan
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SW AG80 said:

Nosh said:

In your professional opinion, what does "very few cops cross the line and do things the wrong way" mean?
After giving this alot of thought, I typed out a lengthy and well thought out response. Then it suddenly disappeared. I won't re-type it all. The 2 in Houston in this case are criminals. There are very few of those in law enforcement. I sent a sheriff to prison when I was DA. Another sheriff in Presidio County went to the pen. These 2 were criminals. In the last 10 years 2-5 were prosecuted in the RGV, as was the DA in Brownsville, Of course, I am not counting the ones who get DWIs or even family violence cases. Those don't have anything to do with their profession.

Most of the problems are caused by officers who are not smart enough to know what they are doing is wrong. Felony stupid, like the current Texas Attorney General.

For the ones calling for no more "no knock" warrants, they are certainly over used. But they are absolutely needed. When LE rolls up to a house at 6:00 am of a known Mexican Mafia member with security cameras on every corner of the house, cops might as well be wearing a target as they stand at the door and knock. They do a job I want no part of, and I have accompanied them on search warrants in west Texas, San Antonio and Houston.


Thanks for being the voice of experience here. There are cop haters on both the left and right.
DannyDuberstein
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I don't think there are a ton of cops that break the law. I do think there are a ton of cops that are willing to turn a blind eye to one that does tho. I do think the us vs them mentality is fostered many places, I do think they'll protect a brother, I do think there is pressure to protect a dept's reputation, and I do think there s pressure to not be a rat. Wrap all that up, and some bad cops like this crew are able to operate for longer than they should and a lot of other cops are aware
aggieforester05
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DannyDuberstein said:

I don't think there are a ton of cops that break the law. I do think there are a ton of cops that are willing to turn a blind eye to one that does tho.
I'd bet there are a ton of cops that keep drop guns and drop dope bags for similar scenarios.
cbr
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Social Media Influencer said:


Quote:

I have a friend that is hpd and has a very high kill count himself.
What is your friend's "kill count?" Most policemen can go their whole careers without ever having to fire a gun in the line of duty. A guy with multiple kills should be pretty notorious.
Ive heard what it is but not from him. He is retired now. Was undercover narc, did high end security gigs, and i think may have been on some swat - type detail. Long career. Former marine. He was at 3 departments over his career. Ive heard he is somewhat notorious. I like him.
snowdog90
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I don't know how prevalent illegal cops are, but the problem seems to be huge. If a cop or many cops know another cop is dirty, they are all as dirty as the bad cop is. Whichever cops knew about Goines being the dirty pos he is are responsible for those that Goines has hurt or killed because they should have stopped him a long time ago. Too many look the other way.

And they look the other way because they are taught to. The culture is that cops take care of cops, and if they don't, they don't last long. Hence two innocent dead people in Houston and God knows how many more every day. Because of the culture.

And even when cops are not dirty, they tend to think of themselves as above average citizens and they don't hesitate to let you know that. Why is it that a cop-killer is thought of as being worse than someone who just kills an average citizen? I've never understood that. A murderer is a murderer.

At the first press conference, the whole theme was these poor brave cops were shot and deserve your prayers, while the two dead people are dead and good riddance. They were obviously of NO concern at all to the speakers of that press conference, and that way of thinking seems to permeate law enforcement. It definitely permeated that press conference.

Have they apologized publicly for killing 2 people? Maybe they have, I don't know. Maybe they won't for legal reasons. I understand they have a tough job. I would never do it. But their power is so great, they have to realize how great the responsibility is that comes with that. That means that when they see a dirty cop, they are responsible for doing something about it before innocent people get hurt or killed.

Sadly, I don't see the problem getting better any time soon
BCG Disciple
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The union leaders rant at the time of the incident did NOT age well.

Liquid Wrench
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Apparently, this officer has been doing undercover drug work for at least 25 years, even after he was shown to have lied about getting shot (and shooting up another driver) during a road rage incident:

https://abc13.com/hpd-officer-at-center-of-deadly-drug-raid-shot-twice-before/5141523/


Quote:

Senior Officer Gerald Goines, 54, was shot in 1992 and 1997.

In 1992, Houston police said Goines had just completed a narcotics transaction when he stopped to urinate on a tree. The homeowner, who was worried about burglars, walked outside and spoke to Goines. Moments later, police said at the time, he returned with a pistol. Goines was shot in the jaw.

In 1997, what was first believed to be a narcotics bust turned out to be a deadly case of road rage on the Southwest Freeway, according to police. Days after the shooting that left Goines injured and another man, Reginald Dorsey, dead, police said the two were competing for space on the freeway.
Incredible that he was kept on at HPD after killing someone in a road rage case and lying about it.

Black police officer with the 2 most recent victims being white so, fortunately, no riots or protests yet.
Madman
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I should be amazed but I am not.
DannyDuberstein
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Quote:

Goines was shot in the jaw.
In hindsight, too bad this wasn't a couple of inches further north.
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Kenneth_2003
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BCG Disciple said:

The union leaders rant at the time of the incident did NOT age well.


I watched that rant live. My jaw was just on the floor. Just cooking my dinner thinking, "WTF is this guy going on and on about?" It wasn't a Dallas type "targeting" situation. These cops weren't picked off while grabbing a cup of coffee. At the time it was a raid gone wrong.

I kinda wanted to give him a pass, thinking well he's had an emotional afternoon and he's probably been rehearsing this rant for a while and now he's got a camera.

Today... SCREW him! Screw the union. Screw the chief. Screw that whole unit!
BQ_90
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I viewed it as knock to the fights going on with the unions and mayors office.

But know that the truth is out the union leader needs to resign.
BQ_90
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Aggiebrewer said:

there are cop haters. I dislike this fact.

I'll tell you what I hate. I hate abuse of power. I hate corruption. I hate govt officials covering up crimes under the color of law.

i dont trust cops or ADAs as far as I can spit. they are human. weak. liars. actors. driven, at times, by their lesser angels.

crime & criminals need to be dealt with, no doubt. but this mess illustrates why we cannot blanket trust cops, their superiors et al.

if that makes me a cop hater...I'll just be a cop hater.

This is why there must be a very intense look at no knock warrants. These have the most potential for abuse of power IMO. And these guys need to wear cameras
JJxvi
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BQ_90 said:

I viewed it as knock to the fights going on with the unions and mayors office.

But know that the truth is out the union leader needs to resign.

I imagine there could always be a bit of adversarial relationship, but arent the HPD and the Mayors office currently aligned in a fight against paying the firefighters more?
SW AG80
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I have been imbedded with with several law enforcement agencies the last 12 months. I can say with a high degree of certainty that one of the reasons Goines had not been fired is because he is black. That is pervasive though out every agency in government.
wbt5845
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SW AG80 said:

I have been imbedded with with several law enforcement agencies the last 12 months. I can say with a high degree of certainty that one of the reasons Goines had not been fired is because he is black. That is pervasive though out every agency in government.

QFT

I bet, given his record, the attempt has been made to remove him but it got shot down because he was black. If the front line supervision that tried to fire him kept a paper trail, there could be hell to pay.
bigjag19
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BQ_90 said:

Aggiebrewer said:

there are cop haters. I dislike this fact.

I'll tell you what I hate. I hate abuse of power. I hate corruption. I hate govt officials covering up crimes under the color of law.

i dont trust cops or ADAs as far as I can spit. they are human. weak. liars. actors. driven, at times, by their lesser angels.

crime & criminals need to be dealt with, no doubt. but this mess illustrates why we cannot blanket trust cops, their superiors et al.

if that makes me a cop hater...I'll just be a cop hater.

This is why there must be a very intense look at no knock warrants. These have the most potential for abuse of power IMO. And these guys need to wear cameras


I believe they had on cameras. And they were off.
BQ_90
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Well what's the point of wearing them then if they aren't turned on
Nosh
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SW AG80 said:

Nosh said:

In your professional opinion, what does "very few cops cross the line and do things the wrong way" mean?
After giving this alot of thought, I typed out a lengthy and well thought out response. Then it suddenly disappeared. I won't re-type it all. The 2 in Houston in this case are criminals. There are very few of those in law enforcement. I sent a sheriff to prison when I was DA. Another sheriff in Presidio County went to the pen. These 2 were criminals. In the last 10 years 2-5 were prosecuted in the RGV, as was the DA in Brownsville, Of course, I am not counting the ones who get DWIs or even family violence cases. Those don't have anything to do with their profession.

Most of the problems are caused by officers who are not smart enough to know what they are doing is wrong. Felony stupid, like the current Texas Attorney General.

For the ones calling for no more "no knock" warrants, they are certainly over used. But they are absolutely needed. When LE rolls up to a house at 6:00 am of a known Mexican Mafia member with security cameras on every corner of the house, cops might as well be wearing a target as they stand at the door and knock. They do a job I want no part of, and I have accompanied them on search warrants in west Texas, San Antonio and Houston.
I wish I could have read the original. I hate it when that happens. Anyway, I would disagree that there are few in law enforcement. Admittedly, my threshold for what I consider criminal is rather low for someone who swears an oath to their office. Family violence and DWI aside, I believe police violate constitutional rights daily, and each one that does as well as those who are complicit should be fired at minimum.

I am familiar with all the corruption in South Texas Gene Falcon, Romeo Ramirez, Pepe Guevara, Lupe Trevinos sons and others on his staff, and the laundry list goes on. I personally knew some of the men that went to prison. Lets assume that corruption and border officials is a constant, (Ex. 1, Ex. 2, Ex. 3, 4, 5, you get the picture). So South Texas aside...

Im on the fence with no-knocks. They should be used at a minimum. The police have let abuse of power slide for so long and it contributes to the disconnect they have between citizens. I know the job is dangerous, but it isnt forced on anyone. I find audits to be quite fascinating. Even with a camera these thugs continue to break the law. One (of many) examples is here and here. The entire point was non-violent provocation based on constitutionally protected acts. Each and every officer who does this deserves hot lead between the eyes. There I said it and it may get me banned, but that is the price they should pay. Why? Because that was the price that was paid by countless patriots that we have those rights.

Breaion King's situation is also infuriating. Its systemic...with DAs dismissing suits. Flush it all.
Fenrir
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BQ_90 said:

Well what's the point of wearing them then if they aren't turned on
There is probably a line on the report they have to fill out that asks if the body camera was worn...maybe it doesn't ask if it was turned on?

RGV AG
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Good post, but you omitted Brig Marmolejo and Conrado Cantu.

In South Texas we don't tolerate corruption, we demand it.

This is a terrible deal in Houston, scary as hell. These no knock deals need to be stopped. Too many other ways to obtain the same results. It is just testosterone and adrenaline in action in today's electronic world.
Gateman
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Nosh said:

SW AG80 said:

Nos said:

I find audits to be quite fascinating. Even with a camera these thugs continue to break the law. One (of many) examples is here and here. The entire point was non-violent provocation based on constitutionally protected acts. Each and every officer who does this deserves hot lead between the eyes.


I share your hobby of watching audits but you need to roll it back a notch on the "lead between the eyes" statement.
Nosh
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RGV AG said:

Good post, but you omitted Brig Marmolejo and Conrado Cantu.

In South Texas we don't tolerate corruption, we demand it.

This is a terrible deal in Houston, scary as hell. These no knock deals need to be stopped. Too many other ways to obtain the same results. It is just testosterone and adrenaline in action in today's electronic world.


I didn't forget them, but we'd be here all day if we listed corrupt officials on the border. Brig was a big name.

Great post! I agree on your other points.
SW AG80
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I believe police violate constitutional rights daily, and each one that does as well as those who are complicit should be fired at minimum.

I hope you are not saying that an officer should be fired because someone's constitutional rights were violated. Many, many times the trial court, then intermediate appellate courts and then the Supreme Court disagree on whether a search was good or not. And they are lawyers who have the benefit of analyzing it for years. Just because someone is kept on the side of the road for 5 minutes too long before a drug dog arrives--thus making the search bad as an impermissible search under the 4th Amendment--should not be grounds for firing or even reprimanding an officer. And these are the kinds of cases that happen every day and are decided by appellate courts every day. The case in Houston is an anomaly. Fortunately those cases do not happen very often. Don't take a worse case scenario as we have here and analogize it to every day occurrences such as was the traffic light red or yellow when the car went through the intersection. Because that stop could lead to a search that turns up 10 kilos of meth and whether the search was constitutional hinges on whether the traffic stop was good or not.
RGV AG
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You may already know this, but when I was told this I found it very interesting and an odd confluence of events. Gene Falcon, Conrado Cantu, and Brig Marmolejo all started their "law enforcement" careers together as TABC employee's, state tax collectors at the bridges and they all worked together at different points in time.

Brig was just selfish and greedy, Cantu and Falcon were bad motor scooters, especially Falcon. If 25% of the rumors and hearsay are true about him it is a terribly sad indicator of public malfeasance in law enforcement.
Nosh
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Gateman said:

Nosh said:

SW AG80 said:

Nos said:

I find audits to be quite fascinating. Even with a camera these thugs continue to break the law. One (of many) examples is here and here. The entire point was non-violent provocation based on constitutionally protected acts. Each and every officer who does this deserves hot lead between the eyes.


I share your hobby of watching audits but you need to roll it back a notch on the "lead between the eyes" statement.


Nope. The Constitution bends their knee. Not mine. Hot lead.

Nosh
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SW AG80 said:

I believe police violate constitutional rights daily, and each one that does as well as those who are complicit should be fired at minimum.

I hope you are not saying that an officer should be fired because someone's constitutional rights were violated. Many, many times the trial court, then intermediate appellate courts and then the Supreme Court disagree on whether a search was good or not. And they are lawyers who have the benefit of analyzing it for years. Just because someone is kept on the side of the road for 5 minutes too long before a drug dog arrives--thus making the search bad as an impermissible search under the 4th Amendment--should not be grounds for firing or even reprimanding an officer. And these are the kinds of cases that happen every day and are decided by appellate courts every day. The case in Houston is an anomaly. Fortunately those cases do not happen very often. Don't take a worse case scenario as we have here and analogize it to every day occurrences such as was the traffic light red or yellow when the car went through the intersection. Because that stop could lead to a search that turns up 10 kilos of meth and whether the search was constitutional hinges on whether the traffic stop was good or not.


5 min? They can have 20 min and that's fine. And no I don't believe HPD incident was an "anomaly." A speeder doesn't get a ticket every time they speed. They only get one when they're caught. HPD got caught. I have a hard time believing this was an isolated incident (shoddy police work).

It absolutely should be grounds for reprimand. If someone is abiding by the law, even engaged in constitutional protected acts and an officer in their duties violates a person's rights, they should be reprimanded. There should be no qualified immunity.
Nosh
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RGV AG said:

You may already know this, but when I was told this I found it very interesting and an odd confluence of events. Gene Falcon, Conrado Cantu, and Brig Marmolejo all started their "law enforcement" careers together as TABC employee's, state tax collectors at the bridges and they all worked together at different points in time.

Brig was just selfish and greedy, Cantu and Falcon were bad motor scooters, especially Falcon. If 25% of the rumors and hearsay are true about him it is a terribly sad indicator of public malfeasance in law enforcement.


That's interesting. I always thought Gene got his start working the narcotics task force with DPS in Roma, but I may be misremembering. He was good buddies with Ray Munsell and Glen Deason (eventual Rusk County Sheriff) back the 70s and 80s. Munsell had RGC station and made much of his early career on getting kicked the fed busts under 500 lbs. It went to them or Start Co Sheriff office. Honestly he was unreliable, only showing up to support when it appeased him. He did however outlast a lot of young troopers looking to "make a difference" there.

I spoke to Glen about 10 years back. I surprised him when I told him two things...first, that Gene had gone to prison. He couldn't believe it. They were young lawmen back then. The second was that Billy Matthews died. He loved Billy as Billy was his mentor early on. The odd thing was that Matthews died of a heart attack back in the early to mid 80s.

Don't these guys read the DPS Chaparral?
SW AG80
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Nosh, thanks for the links to articles about what has happened in the RGV. I served as a special prosecutor in 2 small cases down there several years ago and each time I drove away thinking "WTF just happened!" It is different down there and a place I never want to prosecute in again.

For another interesting read about a dirty cop, google "Rick Thompson, Presidio County Sheriff". A few years before being arrested by the Feds he was on the cover of Texas Monthly as their lawman of the year. He just got out of prison a year or 2 ago.
ABATTBQ11
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I think there are plenty of far more egregious violations that go unpunished and unchecked. That's the problem. Cops like the broken window theory when it comes to policing criminals, but they don't like it when it comes to policing themselves
Cassius
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SW AG80 said:

I have been imbedded with with several law enforcement agencies the last 12 months. I can say with a high degree of certainty that one of the reasons Goines had not been fired is because he is black. That is pervasive though out every agency in government.


So two people are dead because of the sins of our fore fathers. When does it end for goodness sakes?
cbr
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SW AG80 said:

I believe police violate constitutional rights daily, and each one that does as well as those who are complicit should be fired at minimum.

I hope you are not saying that an officer should be fired because someone's constitutional rights were violated. Many, many times the trial court, then intermediate appellate courts and then the Supreme Court disagree on whether a search was good or not. And they are lawyers who have the benefit of analyzing it for years. Just because someone is kept on the side of the road for 5 minutes too long before a drug dog arrives--thus making the search bad as an impermissible search under the 4th Amendment--should not be grounds for firing or even reprimanding an officer. And these are the kinds of cases that happen every day and are decided by appellate courts every day. The case in Houston is an anomaly. Fortunately those cases do not happen very often. Don't take a worse case scenario as we have here and analogize it to every day occurrences such as was the traffic light red or yellow when the car went through the intersection. Because that stop could lead to a search that turns up 10 kilos of meth and whether the search was constitutional hinges on whether the traffic stop was good or not.
Wait, you think its ok that cops harrass people for traffic bull**** because they might catch drugs that way!!!???

THAT IS NOT HOW FREE COUNTRIES WORK


How about - cops dont harass people for bull****, and actually do cop work and find and arrest real criminals instead.

Thats kind of the concept.
Kenneth_2003
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That'sa not what he's saying... And i can give you an example.

Former acquaintance of mine is a cop in Karnes County. He pulled a guy over for an illegal left turn. During the stop he determined the was PC to search the car and got consent. The search turned up felony quantities of drugs. Internet ti distribute quantities, no way in heck out was recreational.

Lawyer realizes the stop was wrong. The officer was confused on a detail id the law regarding left turns and lane choice exciting the turn. So the charges were dropped because the stop was wrong.

The cop made a mistake. Yes the defendants rights were violated. The courts made it right.

The cop does not deserve "hot lead."

The constitution is defended in the courtroom. Not on the side of the road and certainly not like our vigilante posting about hot lead.

This is NOT defending what those f***heads here in Houston did.
Nosh
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Fruit of the poisonous tree. Officer was "confused." /eyeroll

Hot lead for those that violate intentionally. Like for this bozo. The auditor knew the law, requested a supervisor, and was within his constitutional rights as he explained to the cop. Cop even says he hasn't broken a law. But cops ego couldn't handle getting owned so he batters the auditor to flex nuts. Hot lead.

cbr
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I agree of course officer deserves no problems much less hit lead from your example, and I also know 'how it works'

I disagree extremely strongly that traffic or other bull**** stops shoul be expected or relied on to solve real crimes.

Frankly cops should not be burdened with all the billions of bull**** traffic and other duties at all.
 
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