schmendeler said:

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By killing Jameis, he actually kills himself. He's now on the path of the jihad.

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Kill the boy, Jon Snow. [/Aegon Targaryen]

For those who are into archetypical narrative. You have the heroes journey, boy to man.

- leaving the familiar home? Check
- enter a strange land with strange customs? Check
- mentor killed? Check (RIP Duncan)

I won't get too much into what happens next in the archetype. But anyone paying attention sees the success of this formula from star Wars to harry potter (and Jon Snow, no more Winterfel, to the Wall and even beyond the Wall, LC Mormont's death.) The end result is the badass mafogga in the galaxy, at least in fantasy, but other genres enjoy self-actualization as the ultimate goal. "The sleeper has awakened" as it were.


*Just for fun I was thinking of other films that follow the hero's journey. Highlander, Dragonslayer, Sword in the Stone (Merlin goes to Bermuda, instead of dying), Lion King, batman begins, LOTR, BTTF (Marty sees Doc die), Gladiator, kill Bill, captain america, and to some degree the lion, the witch, and the wardrobe (once Aslan is sacrificed, the four are restored and come into their destiny.)

The Dog Lord said:

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Leto didn't know the attack was coming, especially one of that size. I think he was just on edge and wanted to be able to respond as needed rather than being sluggish from a pill. I think his comment about wanting more time is really just a general statement regarding their forced move to Dune and then the immediate threats they were already facing. He knew things were going to keep coming and that it might not work out for them.

I think Jessica was confident in the training Paul had received, but he is still a boy who had never killed a man going against an elite fighter.

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All good to know, and makes sense. Thanks.

DubFalls said:

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I think it's totally fine that it got removed. But, if that is removed I don't see them diving into Thufir as much since some of the depth of his character arc was removed.

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Yeah I doubt they go much into it, but I could still see Thufir being taken in as their mentat. He's a familiar face that adds some tension without having to introduce someone else.

Baron Von Flag Smasher said:

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Question for TCTTS or any non-book reader. Do you know what Thufir Hawat "is?" Did they call him the name of what he is?

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All I knew was the he was different, and I assumed that he and Piter shared whatever eye-rolling trait/proceedure that was. My guess, though, was it was something they each elected to become. Like they had some kind of chip installed in their brains that allowed them to do super calculations, and then whenever they ran calculations it caused the eye-roll thing. It's only in reading this thread that I've learned they're both "mentants," but I still have no idea if that's a kind of species or what.

*mentat

I think they might said the word once, but it definitely wasnt like "thufir is a mentat"

After you watch #Dune Part One, you’ll be curious about DUNE: PART TWO. Director Denis Villeneuve describes the sequel as a “cinematic blast” and says it’ll have less talking and a lot more action.
via @Fandango pic.twitter.com/yEL6fa13gC

— Erik Davis (@ErikDavis) October 23, 2021

Also why Dr. Yueh was diagnosing Paul with his fingers. Speaking of, they didn't go into why Yueh's betrayal was so unexpected to the Atreides, did they?

That's pretty cool. Thanks for the explanation.

For the non book readers that want a run down on the BG and their plans.

Claude! said:

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Also why Dr. Yueh was diagnosing Paul with his fingers. Speaking of, they didn't go into why Yueh's betrayal was so unexpected to the Atreides, did they?

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He was doing acupressure. Traditional Eastern medicine. I thought it was a nice touch.

I can see that a bit, but I'm hoping we get more of those things in the next one. Paul and Jessica will be with the Fremen from the jump, and the Harkonnens will be on Dune already.

TCTTS said:

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Decay said:

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In the book it's explained that Paul wanted to get into childhood mischief and that's why he didn't take the sleeping pills. I don't think there was anything about the Duke taking or not taking anything.

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Paul definitely took the pills in the movie. They made a point of showing a close up of the little tray in his room with the water glass empty and no pills. That's how the Harkonnen were able to so easily take him and Jessica - they were both unconscious (with Paul not waking up until he was on the Ornithopter).

As for Leto, in the scene with him and Jessica in their bedroom, as Jessica reaches for the pills she tells him, "You need to sleep," to which he replies, "No, not like that." Implying he wants to be lucid/alert, and then that's how he so easily wakes up just before the attack.

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So just like the book (if I recall correctly)

If the movie was 30 more minutes, could they have given us the traitor subplot about Hawat, Yueh, and Jessica all circling each other? That would have included more Mentat stuff in the package.

If it was three 2+ hour movies instead of two 2.5 hour movies, could they have included the above and ended the movie with a more beefed up version of the Harkonnen attack as the finale?

Jessica wasn't too worried about her son fighting. Paul had been training his entire life. She bred a Messiah. The books might be running together, but I believe she had foreseen him ruling the planet.

I'm sure everybody knows, but the actress that plays Reverend Mother is Charlotte Rampling. She was Paul Newman's lover than betrayed him in Verdict.

Duncan Idaho said:

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Okay, so I watched this, and I really like the concept in theory - it's super cool and unique - but I don't quite understand it in practice, and am now confused, where as I wasn't really before.

So if there are no robots/computers/A.I., how do these societies build their massive ships, what's controlling the ships' systems, how do the body shields work, etc, if not built by/run on some kind of computational-based system or software? Because the technology we see in the movie does way too much and is way more capable than the space equivalent of, say, a 1970s earth car, before cars had computers in them.

Granted, while watching the Ornithopter/sand worm sequence, I was wondering why all the controls were so analogue, but even something like that would ultimately have to be run by some kind of software. Same with the "jet"/half flying saucer thing we see Duncan flying when we first meet him. How is that thing flying so silently and hovering into the hanger without any kind of computer system running the tech that's powering it? And what is that control panel thing Duncan is messing with when talking to Paul if not some kind of computer interface?

I just assumed technology had become so advanced 8000 years from now that it was basically invisible, hence the uber minimalist vibe paired with the massive fleets of massive ships and all the incredible things they and the Ornithopters can do. But now you're telling me there's no computers running any of that tech? I don't understand how that's even plausible.

TCTTS said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Okay, so I watched this, and I really like the concept in theory - it's super cool and unique - but I don't quite understand it in practice, and am now confused, where as I wasn't really before.

So if there are no robots/computers/A.I., how do these societies build their massive ships, what's controlling the ships' systems, how do the body shields work, etc, if not built by/run on some kind of computational-based system or software? Because the technology we see in the movie does way too much and is way more capable than the space equivalent of, say, a 1970s earth car, before cars had computers in them.

Granted, while watching the Ornithopter/sand worm sequence, I was wondering why all the controls were so analogue, but even something like that would ultimately have to be run by some kind of software. Same with the "jet"/half flying saucer thing we see Duncan flying when we first meet him. How is that thing flying so silently and hovering into the hanger without any kind of computer system running the tech that's powering it? And what is that control panel thing Duncan is messing with when talking to Paul if not some kind of computer interface?

I just assumed technology had become so advanced 8000 years from now that it was basically invisible, hence the uber minimalist vibe paired with the massive fleets of massive ships and all the incredible things they and the Ornithopters can do. But now you're telling me there's no computers running any of that tech? I don't understand how that's even plausible.

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First answer "House of Ix"

There is a house that specializes in making all this stuff.

Second. Answer, don't ask the questiion. That is part of the "backstory" that the prequels ruined.

Third answer. I didn't watch that but for me there is a difference between software and A.I. but that may be me.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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I guess I'm going to be the sole voice of dissent. As a two time book reader I was let down.

DV got the tone and atmosphere and visuals dead on.....but I felt like that's all there was. What makes the book awesome is the political intrigue and the humanity. That was missing from this movie.

The baron and the mentats have been wasted so far. The baron especially is a pale imitation of the actual book version.

We don't truly understand the fremen - their motivations, their society - and fall in love with them like we do when reading the books. There's no real reason to root for them in the movie other than we're supposed to.

So much of the human side - the politics and world building - was rushed through or brushed aside.

I didn't hate the movie or even dislike it......just felt.....let down.

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Agree. Im not sure I would have liked it if I hadn't read the book.

Baron Von Flag Smasher said:

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TCTTS said:

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Okay, so I watched this, and I really like the concept in theory - it's super cool and unique - but I don't quite understand it in practice, and am now confused, where as I wasn't really before.

So if there are no robots/computers/A.I., how do these societies build their massive ships, what's controlling the ships' systems, how do the body shields work, etc, if not built by/run on some kind of computational-based system or software? Because the technology we see in the movie does way too much and is way more capable than the space equivalent of, say, a 1970s earth car, before cars had computers in them.

Granted, while watching the Ornithopter/sand worm sequence, I was wondering why all the controls were so analogue, but even something like that would ultimately have to be run by some kind of software. Same with the "jet"/half flying saucer thing we see Duncan flying when we first meet him. How is that thing flying so silently and hovering into the hanger without any kind of computer system running the tech that's powering it? And what is that control panel thing Duncan is messing with when talking to Paul if not some kind of computer interface?

I just assumed technology had become so advanced 8000 years from now that it was basically invisible, hence the uber minimalist vibe paired with the massive fleets of massive ships and all the incredible things they and the Ornithopters can do. But now you're telling me there's no computers running any of that tech? I don't understand how that's even plausible.

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First answer "House of Ix"

There is a house that specializes in making all this stuff.

Second. Answer, don't ask the questiion. That is part of the "backstory" that the prequels ruined.

Third answer. I didn't watch that but for me there is a difference between software and A.I. but that may be me.

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Ha, it's a pretty fair question to ask, considering it's a seemingly crucial concept purposefully introduced by Herbert into the world of these books. I'm not at all against it, I'm just literally trying to understand it.

The video specifically mentions "computers" as being outlawed in the Dune universe, but then goes on to mainly talk about "robots" and "A.I." being outlawed. If only robots and A.I. are outlawed, and not computers in general, that makes a bit more sense. But then the guy in the video keeps saying the reason it was all outlawed in the first place was because man came to depend too much on "machines" in both everyday life and, more importantly, to rule people. Which is confusing again, though, because in the "present day" of the Dune universe, man is still clearly dependent on "machines" (body shields, hover lamps, hover chairs etc) and is still using them to rule people (by way of fleets of giant ships with all kinds of technological weaponry). So the whole thing comes across as muddled and confusing and contradictory and I'm just looking for some clarification on what, exactly, is and isn't outlawed in terms of tech.

TCTTS said:

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powerbelly said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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I guess I'm going to be the sole voice of dissent. As a two time book reader I was let down.

DV got the tone and atmosphere and visuals dead on.....but I felt like that's all there was. What makes the book awesome is the political intrigue and the humanity. That was missing from this movie.

The baron and the mentats have been wasted so far. The baron especially is a pale imitation of the actual book version.

We don't truly understand the fremen - their motivations, their society - and fall in love with them like we do when reading the books. There's no real reason to root for them in the movie other than we're supposed to.

So much of the human side - the politics and world building - was rushed through or brushed aside.

I didn't hate the movie or even dislike it......just felt.....let down.

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Agree. Im not sure I would have liked it if I hadn't read the book.

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I didn't read the book and the Freman's motivations were incredibly obvious to me, seeing as Stilgar explicitly verbalizes them to Leto & co. In a nutshell, the Freman were on Arrakis first and they don't want offworlders harvesting spice from their lands. Seemed pretty cut and dry and not only perfectly reasonable but also a very empathetic plight worth rooting for.

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I am not just taking about the Fremen. There is a lot going on in the first half of the book that made the world more robust. Especially the stuff off Arrakis and the political factions.

Sorry, I meant to reply to FL_Ag1998's post, not yours.