Villeneuve has said this is the version he intended, and that there is no director's or extended cut.
Dune [Spoiler Thread]
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Last: 2 yr ago by Rocagnante
PatAg said:I actually thought she was good in the role.Claude! said:
Just watched it on HBO Max and it was greatness. The whole thing was visually a treat, from the thopters to the great interpretation of shield technology (the blue/red glow let you follow exactly what was happening, but didn't seem to cheesy or video game-y). It may have just been my imagination, but I also liked how the design of the Guild heighliners that took them to Arrakis presaged the imagery of the sandworms. I don't think they really nailed the blue-in-blue eyes effect; it should've been darker, but I expect that (kind of like them not always wearing their masks in the desert) was a stylistic choice to allow the audience to better see the characters' features. I also thought I caught a couple of instances where some of the Fremen characters didn't have that effect, but that could've been my imagination.
The action scenes were great - they moved quickly, but you could (thanks in part to the shield design) tell what was happening. Even in the non-shield fights, they didn't fall victim to shaky cam-itis. The Jamis fight specifically was great. Told a great story within the fight, and not choreographed so much they looked like they were dancing.
The casting was almost uniformly perfect across the board. Chalamet was a great Paul, and Oscar Isaacs did an excellent job as Leto. If I had to nitpick, it's that they didn't give David Dastmalchian enough to do as Piter de Vries; the Piter in the Lynch film was able to get across better how twisted the character actually is. I did really like how they visualized Mentat calculations with the eyes rolling back, and they nailed the look of Thufir Hawat. Javier Bardem didn't have a lot of scenes as Stilgar, but he made the most of them (though his voice oddly reminded me of Peter Stormare, almost to the point of distraction).
The only casting choice that didn't really work for me was Sharon Duncan-Brewster as Liet Kynes. I didn't mind the gender or race swap, which doesn't really change the character, but, much more than any of the other speaking characters, she seemed like she was reading lines rather than playing a character.
I think something that is going to be difficult, that I didnt realize until I saw the movies, was all the Fremen (and anyone who has eyes that have gone full blue) are basically acting with one of their arms tied behind their back.
I had not really thought about how much emotion/intent can be portrayed with just your eyes in a scene.
Hopefully that makes sense
Agreed. I thought she the actress was great in the role. Such a poised performance, and the way she spoke actually felt very intentional. I'm especially impressed with her halfway through my second viewing.
Just saw it. Haven't read the thread. My first thought is that this is grown up sci fi. Which i loved. Too many of these try to be humorous like people can't take it seriously. So glad there wasn't some "funny robot" that threw out jokes.
It's like game of thrones in space.
This is the treatment that Dune deserves, finally.
It's like game of thrones in space.
This is the treatment that Dune deserves, finally.
Ironic because I thought Duncan Idaho was hilarious. But agreed. Very mature sci-fi.
The spitting scene was legit funny too.
Good points. There's funny moments but there's no... Silliness? If that makes sense.
After letting this digest a little more I'm just super impressed with what DV was able to make. The reason time flies by in this film is there's almost no fat to trim. Even the small interactions have purpose. He's also made an extremely accessible film without having too much exposition. That's a difficult line to hold, appease the fanboys but making something that works for the uninitiated.
Another reason this is impressive is by directly comparing it to GOT. Both are epic tales built on struggles between massively powerful families with tons of storylines and characters. Dune at its core should really be a tv show for full effect. He's trying to tell the first book in two movies. I can't imagine the first book of GOT being told in a couple of movies and being remotely successful. You can tell how much care has been put into this project.
I also wanted to stress how important it is to get to a theater to support it. It's not the same end product you get from streaming. I enjoyed The Suicide Squad on streaming but I could tell it would have been so much more at the theater. I try to get to a theater if I can, which is hard these days with a family. Box office numbers matter for these things, regardless of the streaming numbers, especially if you want to see more of what you enjoy. Also when I see a shuttered movie theater it bums me out, those tickets go to more places than just the studio.
Another reason this is impressive is by directly comparing it to GOT. Both are epic tales built on struggles between massively powerful families with tons of storylines and characters. Dune at its core should really be a tv show for full effect. He's trying to tell the first book in two movies. I can't imagine the first book of GOT being told in a couple of movies and being remotely successful. You can tell how much care has been put into this project.
I also wanted to stress how important it is to get to a theater to support it. It's not the same end product you get from streaming. I enjoyed The Suicide Squad on streaming but I could tell it would have been so much more at the theater. I try to get to a theater if I can, which is hard these days with a family. Box office numbers matter for these things, regardless of the streaming numbers, especially if you want to see more of what you enjoy. Also when I see a shuttered movie theater it bums me out, those tickets go to more places than just the studio.
Hans Zimmer's score is one of the best I've ever heard. Just perfectly made for this film
The movie itself was gripping and absolutely amazing. I wanted to watch it again right after the credits started rolling.
The movie itself was gripping and absolutely amazing. I wanted to watch it again right after the credits started rolling.
I loved it as well. I really appreciated how they took their time with things that needed it. There were 1 or 2 scenes that showed the power of the Bene Gesserit (which is still not fully appreciated early on), and they explained some of their long-term schemes. They showed how the groundwork for a Messiah was laid.
I am one who does not like forced diversity in films. That was not the case here. The cast was excellent. Herbert is all about diversity in his characters and it's really done well. Yeah, Lyet is apparently Chani's mother, instead of father, but it still flowed well.
The only thing I was ho/hum about was the Baron. He was kind of cliche, and I actually thought the older movie had a better Baron. They also, unless I missed it, didn't explain the Mentats at all.
I agree with the GoT analogy. It is definitely a political book before anything else. With more time, they could have fleshed out so much more. The books are very deep about humanity.
I am one who does not like forced diversity in films. That was not the case here. The cast was excellent. Herbert is all about diversity in his characters and it's really done well. Yeah, Lyet is apparently Chani's mother, instead of father, but it still flowed well.
The only thing I was ho/hum about was the Baron. He was kind of cliche, and I actually thought the older movie had a better Baron. They also, unless I missed it, didn't explain the Mentats at all.
I agree with the GoT analogy. It is definitely a political book before anything else. With more time, they could have fleshed out so much more. The books are very deep about humanity.
Dune has been my favorite book since I read it twenty years ago, and this movie delivered on it. I greatly enjoyed it.
I mean, the ornithopter scene is probably my favorite example of how he got the world building, the tone, the characters just absolutely right and brought it about in a crazy intense moment.
I mean, the ornithopter scene is probably my favorite example of how he got the world building, the tone, the characters just absolutely right and brought it about in a crazy intense moment.
Also, I laughed a bit at the just perfectly placed table in front of Duke Leto's nethers. You could make some jokes about the size of the table needed for that scene.
Finally finished my rewatch, and yeah, this thing is damn near a masterpiece. I caught so much more with subtitles on, and the flow/structure worked quite a bit better, knowing what to expect.
Speaking of structure, I divided my rewatch into four sections/sit-downs, across the three acts of the film...
ACT 1
(0h 00m - 0h 34m)
Opening sequence to House Atreides leaving Caladan.
Maybe my favorite section of the movie. I love blockbuster first acts, and this one packs a lot and is just so good.
That said, if this were a limited series, and we got to spend most of the pilot on Caladan, I definitely could have used like 10 more minutes of Paul's daily life, a glimpse of their society, etc. Along with some kind of bittersweet sense of having to leave that more-deeply-explored home life behind.
Also, someone mentioned earlier that Dr. Yueh's betrayal on Arrakis felt a bit rushed/blunt, or something along those lines. I feel like what we got absolutely worked, but I do think some kind of interaction between Leto and Dr. Yueh on Caladan would have gone a long way to give us that "Et tu, Brute?" vibe on Arrakis. Just some kind of quick, relationship-establishing scene between the two of them, prior to leaving Caladan.
All that said, I obviously understand the time constraints of a movie, and a 34-minute first act is already pushing it (they're typically between 25 and 30 minutes). Given the circumstances, as-is, it works phenomenally well.
ACT 2A
(0h 34m - 1hr 17m)
Arrival on Arrakis to Leto and Jessica in bed.
This section is basically flawless, so stunning, and I think tied for my favorite section of the movie. The Ornithopter/worm attack sequence is just incredible, and maybe the highlight of the movie for me (in a movie full of highlights).
One quick question, though: Does Leto somehow know the Harkonnen/Sardaukar are coming that night (and doesn't take the sleeping pill Dr. Yueh leaves for each family member) because of what Liet-Kynes says to him about keeping his family safe? ("Arrakis has seen men like you come and go. Take good care of your family. The desert's not kind to humans either.") Is that why he's so on edge and tells Jessica, "I thought we'd have more time?" Otherwise, how does he know, in that moment, that they're out of time?
-MIDPOINT-
ACT 2B
(1hr 17m - 2hr 1m)
The siege on Arrakis to the final scene with the Baron ("Kill them all.").
The only thing that kind of bugged me about this section is when Paul goes all Luke Skywalker and basically decides to shut down the Ornithopter, "use the Force," and let the storm guide them. If everyone is so convinced that an 800 mph wind/sand storm is unsurvivable, I don't quite get how voluntarily letting it spin and whip you around for God knows how long is some kind of genius strategic move. Yes, it works on a spiritual/thematic/character level, but feels just a little cheap and unbelievable otherwise.
ACT 3
(2hr 1m - 2hr 28m)
Jessica/Paul Ornithopter crash sequence to the end credits.
Knowing what I was getting into this go-around, the final act definitely plays better a second time, as I anticipated. If anything, I appreciate what a ballsy move it is to end your movie in this fashion, and I dug it.
On my initial viewing, I didn't understand why Jessica was being so weirdly calm/quiet once Paul volunteered to be her "champion." I figured she would be pleading with him not to do it, thinking he was going to die, etc. But this time, I got the sense she basically expects him to win, yes? Am I reading that right?
-END
Overall, I see myself rewatching this time and again, like I still do with Blade Runner 2049. It's the perfect movie to sit and watch intently, but also have on in the background as the most stunning screensaver ever. I just really hope we get the 1.90:1 aspect ratio (or close to it) IMAX version for the Blu-ray...
Speaking of structure, I divided my rewatch into four sections/sit-downs, across the three acts of the film...
ACT 1
(0h 00m - 0h 34m)
Opening sequence to House Atreides leaving Caladan.
Maybe my favorite section of the movie. I love blockbuster first acts, and this one packs a lot and is just so good.
That said, if this were a limited series, and we got to spend most of the pilot on Caladan, I definitely could have used like 10 more minutes of Paul's daily life, a glimpse of their society, etc. Along with some kind of bittersweet sense of having to leave that more-deeply-explored home life behind.
Also, someone mentioned earlier that Dr. Yueh's betrayal on Arrakis felt a bit rushed/blunt, or something along those lines. I feel like what we got absolutely worked, but I do think some kind of interaction between Leto and Dr. Yueh on Caladan would have gone a long way to give us that "Et tu, Brute?" vibe on Arrakis. Just some kind of quick, relationship-establishing scene between the two of them, prior to leaving Caladan.
All that said, I obviously understand the time constraints of a movie, and a 34-minute first act is already pushing it (they're typically between 25 and 30 minutes). Given the circumstances, as-is, it works phenomenally well.
ACT 2A
(0h 34m - 1hr 17m)
Arrival on Arrakis to Leto and Jessica in bed.
This section is basically flawless, so stunning, and I think tied for my favorite section of the movie. The Ornithopter/worm attack sequence is just incredible, and maybe the highlight of the movie for me (in a movie full of highlights).
One quick question, though: Does Leto somehow know the Harkonnen/Sardaukar are coming that night (and doesn't take the sleeping pill Dr. Yueh leaves for each family member) because of what Liet-Kynes says to him about keeping his family safe? ("Arrakis has seen men like you come and go. Take good care of your family. The desert's not kind to humans either.") Is that why he's so on edge and tells Jessica, "I thought we'd have more time?" Otherwise, how does he know, in that moment, that they're out of time?
-MIDPOINT-
ACT 2B
(1hr 17m - 2hr 1m)
The siege on Arrakis to the final scene with the Baron ("Kill them all.").
The only thing that kind of bugged me about this section is when Paul goes all Luke Skywalker and basically decides to shut down the Ornithopter, "use the Force," and let the storm guide them. If everyone is so convinced that an 800 mph wind/sand storm is unsurvivable, I don't quite get how voluntarily letting it spin and whip you around for God knows how long is some kind of genius strategic move. Yes, it works on a spiritual/thematic/character level, but feels just a little cheap and unbelievable otherwise.
ACT 3
(2hr 1m - 2hr 28m)
Jessica/Paul Ornithopter crash sequence to the end credits.
Knowing what I was getting into this go-around, the final act definitely plays better a second time, as I anticipated. If anything, I appreciate what a ballsy move it is to end your movie in this fashion, and I dug it.
On my initial viewing, I didn't understand why Jessica was being so weirdly calm/quiet once Paul volunteered to be her "champion." I figured she would be pleading with him not to do it, thinking he was going to die, etc. But this time, I got the sense she basically expects him to win, yes? Am I reading that right?
-END
Overall, I see myself rewatching this time and again, like I still do with Blade Runner 2049. It's the perfect movie to sit and watch intently, but also have on in the background as the most stunning screensaver ever. I just really hope we get the 1.90:1 aspect ratio (or close to it) IMAX version for the Blu-ray...
Leto didn't know the attack was coming, especially one of that size. I think he was just on edge and wanted to be able to respond as needed rather than being sluggish from a pill. I think his comment about wanting more time is really just a general statement regarding their forced move to Dune and then the immediate threats they were already facing. He knew things were going to keep coming and that it might not work out for them.
I think Jessica was confident in the training Paul had received, but he is still a boy who had never killed a man going against an elite fighter.
I think Jessica was confident in the training Paul had received, but he is still a boy who had never killed a man going against an elite fighter.
In the book it's explained that Paul wanted to get into childhood mischief and that's why he didn't take the sleeping pills. I don't think there was anything about the Duke taking or not taking anything.
Question for TCTTS or any non-book reader. Do you know what Thufir Hawat "is?" Did they call him the name of what he is?
https://i.postimg.cc/rpHKr9JQ/IMG-0770.jpg
Decay said:
In the book it's explained that Paul wanted to get into childhood mischief and that's why he didn't take the sleeping pills. I don't think there was anything about the Duke taking or not taking anything.
The Duke was running on pills that make you stay awake for like 3 straight days after the assassination attempt in the book.
I watched on HBO Max last night. Definitely will see again on IMAX. I didn't know that 2-1/2 hours could go by so fast. Wow!
Going to see it this morning at the mega-theater in Tomball. I don't think I've seen a movie on an Imax screen outside of a museum since Revenge of the Sith.
MaroonStain said:
I watched on HBO Max last night. Definitely will see again on IMAX. I didn't know that 2-1/2 hours could go by so fast. Wow!
Definitely see in imax. I'm 7 minutes into my rewatch on HBO, and it's just not the same as the IMAX.
I actually don't recall if they used the word or not in the movie, but he is a mentat. Best way to describe that is a human computer (and I may be pulling that description from the '84 movie rather than the book). I'll be rewatching the new movie again tonight, so I'll be more tuned in for the little details.Baron Von Flag Smasher said:
Question for TCTTS or any non-book reader. Do you know what Thufir Hawat "is?" Did they call him the name of what he is?
Agree that the mentats were wasted (particularly Piter) and Paul yeeting the 'thopter wasn't what I would have done.
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:I actually don't recall if they used the word or not in the movie, but he is a mentat. Best way to describe that is a human computer (and I may be pulling that description from the '84 movie rather than the book). I'll be rewatching the new movie again tonight, so I'll be more tuned in for the little details.Baron Von Flag Smasher said:
Question for TCTTS or any non-book reader. Do you know what Thufir Hawat "is?" Did they call him the name of what he is?
I know what he is, was wondering if it was really discussed in the movie. I don't think they used the word mental.
They make a big deal about Paul being trained as a fighter and with the weirding way by jessica. But the book makes it clear he was trained as a Mentat as well where the movie completely ignores it. Probably my biggest "negative" I agree they wasted Piter as well ( the Harkoneen mentat)
TCTTS said:
Rest easy. The second one is all but official at this point.
How can you be so sure when we don't know how much $ this one will make? I'll take your word for it since you know a lot more about these things but it is a business and business driven by $.
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Fogburn95 said:TCTTS said:
Rest easy. The second one is all but official at this point.
How can you be so sure when we don't know how much $ this one will make? I'll take your word for it since you know a lot more about these things but it is a business and business driven by $.
The head of WB didn't come out and say it definitively but she very much alluded to it happening.
Also, not just about money this time around. Views on HBOMax will play heavily
new Hbo subs will be an interesting metric. I know they got $149 out of me to watch this.
Baron Von Flag Smasher said:
Question for TCTTS or any non-book reader. Do you know what Thufir Hawat "is?" Did they call him the name of what he is?
Him rolling his eyes up was a really cool touch to show there's something interesting going on there.
We may have seen the last of Thufir. Seems like if they were to go into him being captured and working for the Baron, that would have happened in the immediate aftermath of the battle.
I'd tend to agree with that. The whole Jessica is the spy subplot wasn't really in the movie.
The "Piter trying to infiltrate the Fremen" is another small mentat subplot I wish could have been in there.
Thopter in the storm.
So the storms are x-MPH and do damage to things. Things that resist. Stones that stay in the path of a river erode, stones that are pushed by the current do not erode.
There is a concept that Dr. Kines specifically but the fremen repeat/chant "I am a desert creature." They say this as a touchstone to be one with the desert, to survive it, to embrace it.
I'm hopeful yall picked up on the "prophesy" Paul sees in the sandstorm where Jameis tells him he will instruct him. Jameis is Paul's physical Rubicon to cross, whereas the storm is a spiritual one. Almost a baptism.
So the storms are x-MPH and do damage to things. Things that resist. Stones that stay in the path of a river erode, stones that are pushed by the current do not erode.
There is a concept that Dr. Kines specifically but the fremen repeat/chant "I am a desert creature." They say this as a touchstone to be one with the desert, to survive it, to embrace it.
I'm hopeful yall picked up on the "prophesy" Paul sees in the sandstorm where Jameis tells him he will instruct him. Jameis is Paul's physical Rubicon to cross, whereas the storm is a spiritual one. Almost a baptism.
By killing Jameis, he actually kills himself. He's now on the path of the jihad.
DubFalls said:
I'd tend to agree with that. The whole Jessica is the spy subplot wasn't really in the movie.
I don't see how you get get that in a movie. A GoT sized TV show? Sure.
I think it's totally fine that it got removed. But, if that is removed I don't see them diving into Thufir as much since some of the depth of his character arc was removed.
i agee with that. Sadly i think the mentats are done.
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