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***** The Lord of the Rings: Official Thread *****
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Last: 10 days ago by Brian Earl Spilner
CondensedFoggyAggie said:DallasTeleAg said:
But didn't all the Istari sail across the sea? Gandalf definitely did. The Valar didn't send them over in a fireball, basically as newborns with no knowledge of the language or what they're even doing here.
Also as I recall, Gandalf also kinda temporarily lost his memory after fighting that balrog and leveling up. The Gods do have a rough way of sending their wizards back to earth.
Gandalf was sent to Middle Earth as an emissary of Manwe, chief of the Valar.
Quote:
I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountain-side where he smote it in his ruin. Then darkness took me, and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell. 'Naked I was sent back for a brief time, until my task is done.
"Thought and time" are beyond Manwe's authority, so we are to understand that Gandalf dies after defeating the balrog and is sent back by Iluvatar, the creator, who is outside and above both Middle Earth and Valinor. "Promoted" is probably more accurate than "leveled up." So the circumstances for his arrival and return are pretty different.
He solo'd the Balrog and took all the XP from the rest of his party, and probably got some sick loot too. Definitely leveled up.
based on things said in the show (counting the prologue voiceover) and how the dwarves were concerned that the elves knew they had it... one of the silmaril?AgE2theBONE said:redline248 said:
So, show talk. What do we think the dwarves have? Mithril? Is this the time frame of its discovery?
I took it to be obvious it was the Arkenstone?
Is there any reason that might not be the case?
I think, if you can just drop any knowledge or preconceived notions from the Silmarillion, the show is enjoyable.Mathguy64 said:
I gave up after 30 minutes. They flipped the characters. They made Galadriel a warrior and Elrond into a wimp. Whatever they are trying to tell as a story seemed at odds with the history Tolkien created.
Maybe it can be argued that without all the proper licenses, the show shouldnt have been made...but thats how it went
1 silmaril was lost forever, 1 Earendil sails across the sky every day...the 3rd I can't remember. I suppose it's possible, but that might also be a stretch, imo.PatAg said:based on things said in the show (counting the prologue voiceover) and how the dwarves were concerned that the elves knew they had it... one of the silmaril?AgE2theBONE said:redline248 said:
So, show talk. What do we think the dwarves have? Mithril? Is this the time frame of its discovery?
I took it to be obvious it was the Arkenstone?
Is there any reason that might not be the case?
Edit: 1 fell into a fiery pit and 1 thrown into the sea. I find it unlikely for the dwarves to have 1
This is why I have always been of the opinion that Gandalf the White was no longer an Istari, but closer to his Maia self than he was as an Istari. He definitely did not seem to be bound by the same rules.
Back to the discussion on the way the Istari came to Middle Earth; from the Silmarilion:
"Even as the first shadows were felt in Mirkwood there appeared in the west of Middle-earth the Istari, whom Men called the Wizards. none knew at that time whence they were, save cirdan of the Havens, and only to Elrond and to Galadriel did he reveal that they came over the Sea.
...
Of these Curunir was the eldest and came first, and after him came Mithrandir and Radagast, and others of the Istari who went into the east of Middle-earth, and do not come into these tales."
To me, this confirms the Istari came during this time, including the blue wizards.
I had to go back and open the Silmarilion, and having looked at the chapter on the Rings of Power and the Third Age, it said (possible spoilers from The Silmarilion) Sauron put on his "fair hue again" after the fall of Morgoth and "abjured all his evil deeds". If this is the case, how are we getting this story from The Rings of Power? Galadriel is hunting for him... but that doesn't make sense. Was she basically sent back by Gil-galad because he knows Sauron has repented and is in service again to Eonwe? And he fears that Galadriel would not accept this outcome, and the outcome of her continuing search for him could itself lead to war coming again? This also wouldn't really make sense because Gil-galad and Elrond did not trust Sauron during this time.
Edit: nvm.. I should have read the next paragraph... now I don't know how this story fits in with The Rings of Power, lol
Back to the discussion on the way the Istari came to Middle Earth; from the Silmarilion:
"Even as the first shadows were felt in Mirkwood there appeared in the west of Middle-earth the Istari, whom Men called the Wizards. none knew at that time whence they were, save cirdan of the Havens, and only to Elrond and to Galadriel did he reveal that they came over the Sea.
...
Of these Curunir was the eldest and came first, and after him came Mithrandir and Radagast, and others of the Istari who went into the east of Middle-earth, and do not come into these tales."
To me, this confirms the Istari came during this time, including the blue wizards.
I had to go back and open the Silmarilion, and having looked at the chapter on the Rings of Power and the Third Age, it said (possible spoilers from The Silmarilion) Sauron put on his "fair hue again" after the fall of Morgoth and "abjured all his evil deeds". If this is the case, how are we getting this story from The Rings of Power? Galadriel is hunting for him... but that doesn't make sense. Was she basically sent back by Gil-galad because he knows Sauron has repented and is in service again to Eonwe? And he fears that Galadriel would not accept this outcome, and the outcome of her continuing search for him could itself lead to war coming again? This also wouldn't really make sense because Gil-galad and Elrond did not trust Sauron during this time.
Edit: nvm.. I should have read the next paragraph... now I don't know how this story fits in with The Rings of Power, lol
PatAg said:Is this a serious post, or is written like fan fiction to be funnySolo Tetherball Champ said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
Timeline certainly matches up though. Good call!Quote:
Therefore Tolkien dramatically altered his conception of the two Wizards. They no longer arrived in Middle-earth along with Saruman, Gandalf, and Radagast in c. T.A. 1000. Instead they arrived much earlier, at roughly the same time as Glorfindel in c. S.A. 1600. Whilst Glorfindel was tasked with aiding Elrond with the war in Eriador, the Wizards were destined to journey to the East and South. Instead of mentioning that they drifted from their mission, Tolkien points out that they played a decisive role in the downfall of Sauron at the end of both the Second Age and the Third Age. They became known as Morinehtar and Rmestmo, Darkness-slayer and East-helper, and were successful in preventing the forces of the East and South from outnumbering those of the Free peoples in the West.
But given the lack of specific detail for those characters, I think they're basically a blank slate for them, which is kind of cool.
Glorfindel hasn't been confirmed for this show, right? I wonder if he might be coming in later seasons.
I've been involved with Fellowship of Fans from its very beginning and we've never heard anything about Glorfindel.
At first, we simply attributed it to having more insight and sources in the Numenorian sets, but eventually, the lack of evidence became too much to ignore.
Completely serious.
I went to the Mines of Moria and Gandalf was running a macro while he was AFK and spamming "Invite me to your group if you need this MOB". SO annoying.Brian Earl Spilner said:
He solo'd the Balrog and took all the XP from the rest of his party, and probably got some sick loot too. Definitely leveled up.
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Just finished the first episode with my daughter, we both really liked it, although she was terrified of the troll. Really like the takes on Elrond and Galadriel, very underwhelmed by Gil-Galad, but maybe I just had too high of expectations of what he should look like.
Loved the callbacks to FOTR with the extreme closeups of Galdriel's eyes. Liked the detective aspect as well and the use of the map. Those maps are like cherished treasures to fans who knew the books long before the movies, almost like a secret handshake if you could see those maps and feel the stirring of adventure and your first time discovering Middle Earth - maps have such a great way of making fiction feel real. My brother brought over this giant book of maps of Westeros he got from the library once and the 2 of us sat at the kitchen table for 2 hours going over it talking about stuff while my wife and daughters looked at us sadly.
Would have liked to watch both episodes but she's earning her way out of a punishment so we'll hopefully watch 2 & 3 back to back on Friday.
Loved the callbacks to FOTR with the extreme closeups of Galdriel's eyes. Liked the detective aspect as well and the use of the map. Those maps are like cherished treasures to fans who knew the books long before the movies, almost like a secret handshake if you could see those maps and feel the stirring of adventure and your first time discovering Middle Earth - maps have such a great way of making fiction feel real. My brother brought over this giant book of maps of Westeros he got from the library once and the 2 of us sat at the kitchen table for 2 hours going over it talking about stuff while my wife and daughters looked at us sadly.
Would have liked to watch both episodes but she's earning her way out of a punishment so we'll hopefully watch 2 & 3 back to back on Friday.
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I didn't know what to expect since I hadn't been following the lead-up stories. So far, I've been very impressed with the production quality. It just appears real and just "there" as it should. The pacing has also been good though maybe a little on the slow side in places.
It's hard not to compare to GoT since they're rolling out at the same time. Obviously GoT is grittier and RoP is more wholesome, but other than that I feel like so far RoP is doing a better job of story telling and leading the viewer if that makes sense. Looking forward to the next episode.
It's hard not to compare to GoT since they're rolling out at the same time. Obviously GoT is grittier and RoP is more wholesome, but other than that I feel like so far RoP is doing a better job of story telling and leading the viewer if that makes sense. Looking forward to the next episode.
I didn't think I'd be this much into either one of them. I came in with an open mind, but wasn't real sure from the previews from either. I hope to watch the 2nd episode of RoP today/tonight, but for now the effects and the scope have been breathtaking for me. Even though I keep wanting Elrond to say, "NOOOO, Now it ends."
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So with the show not having the rights to that book, it clearly makes it not something they can just bring over 1 for 1. To what extent they can use plot points and timeliness we dont know, of course. I think its an exercise in futility to constantly refer to that book when you watch this show, unfortunately.DallasTeleAg said:
This is why I have always been of the opinion that Gandalf the White was no longer an Istari, but closer to his Maia self than he was as an Istari. He definitely did not seem to be bound by the same rules.
Back to the discussion on the way the Istari came to Middle Earth; from the Silmarilion:
"Even as the first shadows were felt in Mirkwood there appeared in the west of Middle-earth the Istari, whom Men called the Wizards. none knew at that time whence they were, save cirdan of the Havens, and only to Elrond and to Galadriel did he reveal that they came over the Sea.
...
Of these Curunir was the eldest and came first, and after him came Mithrandir and Radagast, and others of the Istari who went into the east of Middle-earth, and do not come into these tales."
To me, this confirms the Istari came during this time, including the blue wizards.
I had to go back and open the Silmarilion, and having looked at the chapter on the Rings of Power and the Third Age, it said (possible spoilers from The Silmarilion) Sauron put on his "fair hue again" after the fall of Morgoth and "abjured all his evil deeds". If this is the case, how are we getting this story from The Rings of Power? Galadriel is hunting for him... but that doesn't make sense. Was she basically sent back by Gil-galad because he knows Sauron has repented and is in service again to Eonwe? And he fears that Galadriel would not accept this outcome, and the outcome of her continuing search for him could itself lead to war coming again? This also wouldn't really make sense because Gil-galad and Elrond did not trust Sauron during this time.
Edit: nvm.. I should have read the next paragraph... now I don't know how this story fits in with The Rings of Power, lol
I think its because Wheel of Time didn't land how it should, so we have been fatnasy show/movie starvedThe Porkchop Express said:
I didn't think I'd be this much into either one of them. I came in with an open mind, but wasn't real sure from the previews from either. I hope to watch the 2nd episode of RoP today/tonight, but for now the effects and the scope have been breathtaking for me. Even though I keep wanting Elrond to say, "NOOOO, Now it ends."
PatAg said:I think, if you can just drop any knowledge or preconceived notions from the Silmarillion, the show is enjoyable.Mathguy64 said:
I gave up after 30 minutes. They flipped the characters. They made Galadriel a warrior and Elrond into a wimp. Whatever they are trying to tell as a story seemed at odds with the history Tolkien created.
Maybe it can be argued that without all the proper licenses, the show shouldnt have been made...but thats how it went
It's tough to get past. Galadriel is literally 2000 years older than Elrond and is older than Gil-Galad. By the time the One Ring is made she is is something like 4000 years old. Not the first of the Elves but she is one of the Eldest comparatively.
I get this is the hard part of any adaptation from a book. You have to make changes to make it work. But it's a tough watch when she is made to appear young and somewhat immature.
I'll try it again at some point but I'll have to figure a way to totally disassociate anything I know from what I'm watching.
Does she appear immature, though? She's the one who reads the signs and realizes that something is still out there while all the other elves are sitting around playing grab ass. I get that it can be really tough to watch something that is diametrically opposed to what you know from your favorite writings. I wouldn't watch the Dark Tower movie that came out a few years ago if you gave me $500. I think you could make the reasonable comparison of her to Maverick in Top Gun or Qui-Gon Jinn in Star Wars as someone who could easily be higher up in the Elf hierarchy but has chose to forgo such plaudits in order to keep pursuing her passion.
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I do agree with you, and I dont think they really needed to make this change...other than to the writers they think it makes their story work more to have her seem 'inexperienced'.Mathguy64 said:PatAg said:I think, if you can just drop any knowledge or preconceived notions from the Silmarillion, the show is enjoyable.Mathguy64 said:
I gave up after 30 minutes. They flipped the characters. They made Galadriel a warrior and Elrond into a wimp. Whatever they are trying to tell as a story seemed at odds with the history Tolkien created.
Maybe it can be argued that without all the proper licenses, the show shouldnt have been made...but thats how it went
It's tough to get past. Galadriel is literally 2000 years older than Elrond and is older than Gil-Galad. By the time the One Ring is made she is is something like 4000 years old. Not the first of the Elves but she is one of the Eldest comparatively.
I get this is the hard part of any adaptation from a book. You have to make changes to make it work. But it's a tough watch when she is made to appear young and somewhat immature.
I'll try it again at some point but I'll have to figure a way to totally disassociate anything I know from what I'm watching.
I don't really agree with them, but its what we get.
She doesn't strike me as inexperienced at all. Perhaps hot headed in elvish terms in terms of her single minded focus on her search. But not immature. Elrond is coming off as naive relative to the LOTR version but I think that makes sense as someone who thinks Morgoth is defeated (when perhaps he isn't)
Yeah, i think it is pretty unrelatable to even comprehend the level of maturity of someone several thousand years old after centuries of war.
Well you dummies just sent me on a 35-minute LOTR rabbit hole on Wikipedia, thanks a lot!
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I think some of the Uber fans are splitting hairs way too much. Galadriel is great so far.
Galadariel is ok, imo, not great or terrible. I dislike the choice they made to have her almost sail into the west more than anything about her character, so far.
In regards to if she comes off inexperienced or anything...well at however many thousands of years old she is she just figured out what her brother told her when she was a child. I think they want her to seem somewhat young, despite her years. For example, other than telling Elrond she saw when the first trees were carved into memorials, they haven't driven home that she's much, much older than him. And in fact, they've tried to make him seem wiser than her. Maybe, again, it's the choice to have her obsess over Sauron as a soldier that is the biggest thing I don't like.
In regards to if she comes off inexperienced or anything...well at however many thousands of years old she is she just figured out what her brother told her when she was a child. I think they want her to seem somewhat young, despite her years. For example, other than telling Elrond she saw when the first trees were carved into memorials, they haven't driven home that she's much, much older than him. And in fact, they've tried to make him seem wiser than her. Maybe, again, it's the choice to have her obsess over Sauron as a soldier that is the biggest thing I don't like.
Done with the first 2. Have to say I'm impressed. Visually it's a 10/10. Haven't seen something this good looking on TV before.
Story wise it's developing like fantasy novels go, slow and across multiple characters and locations. Plenty of mystery. Absolutely worth watching so far.
Story wise it's developing like fantasy novels go, slow and across multiple characters and locations. Plenty of mystery. Absolutely worth watching so far.
Watched the second episode with my daughter this afternoon. Rings of Power has done for the stanadard orc what Mando did for Super Battle Droids, made them scary as hell. My daughter was terrified of that thing.
Less sure of what happened to the Elf who was with the healer lady. You gotta be pretty damn dedicated to keep going through the tunnel when you can't even get your body into it much less through it.
Should retcon FOTR to show Galadriel with a lot of All-Middle-Earth 500-m freestyle trophies on her wall. Was lucky Sawyer from Lost showed up when he did, even though Jin, Michael, and Walt got eaten by the Meg.
All kidding aside, I love how intimate the show is being with beautiful things, like the tree in Durin's home. You don't have to linger on Elrond appreciating the beauty of that tree, but you did and I'm glad for it. Khazad Dun was stunning, never thought I'd see the greenery inside. The dwarf children were especially clever wearing the helmets because you didn't have to waste $$$ doing some kind of CGI tomofoolery on their faces.
I know the Elves live forever, but Celebimbor should have at least put on a WTF? when he gets denied entrance to Dwarfville and just is like, Oh well, guess I'll walk back home.
Really liked the special effects when Theo's blood rebuilds the sword. That is a cool effect.
Less sure of what happened to the Elf who was with the healer lady. You gotta be pretty damn dedicated to keep going through the tunnel when you can't even get your body into it much less through it.
Should retcon FOTR to show Galadriel with a lot of All-Middle-Earth 500-m freestyle trophies on her wall. Was lucky Sawyer from Lost showed up when he did, even though Jin, Michael, and Walt got eaten by the Meg.
All kidding aside, I love how intimate the show is being with beautiful things, like the tree in Durin's home. You don't have to linger on Elrond appreciating the beauty of that tree, but you did and I'm glad for it. Khazad Dun was stunning, never thought I'd see the greenery inside. The dwarf children were especially clever wearing the helmets because you didn't have to waste $$$ doing some kind of CGI tomofoolery on their faces.
I know the Elves live forever, but Celebimbor should have at least put on a WTF? when he gets denied entrance to Dwarfville and just is like, Oh well, guess I'll walk back home.
Really liked the special effects when Theo's blood rebuilds the sword. That is a cool effect.
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I made it through the other half of E1 and all of E2. I almost quit the minute I restarted when Elrond told Galadriel he was her friend. All I could think of was "no you dolt she is your freaking mother in law."
While it's stunningly beautiful it is like Apple's Foundation. An interesting story that bears little resemblance to its source material. I made it through Foundation I guess I will make it through this.
While it's stunningly beautiful it is like Apple's Foundation. An interesting story that bears little resemblance to its source material. I made it through Foundation I guess I will make it through this.
This is all occurring in the Second Age. Elrond and Celebrian were not wed until early in the Third.Mathguy64 said:
I almost quit the minute I restarted when Elrond told Galadriel he was her friend. All I could think of was "no you dolt she is your freaking mother in law."
Should retcon FOTR to show Galadriel with a lot of All-Middle-Earth 500-m freestyle trophies on her wall. Was lucky Sawyer from Lost showed up when he did, even though Jin, Michael, and Walt got eaten by the Meg.
cracked me up! I am rewatching LOST right now and literally just watched the episode where Walt gets taken off the boat by the Others!
PDWT_12 said:This is all occurring in the Second Age. Elrond and Celebrian were not wed until early in the Third.Mathguy64 said:
I made it through the other half of E1 and all of E2. I almost quit the minute I restarted when Elrond told Galadriel he was her friend. All I could think of was "no you dolt she is your freaking mother in law."
While it's stunningly beautiful it is like Apple's Foundation. An interesting story that bears little resemblance to its source material. I made it through Foundation I guess I will make it through this.
Amazon is going to own Thursdays nights this fall. Premiere of Thursday Night Football tonight, with a great game so far (in excellent quality, presentation-wise), followed shortly by the premier of episode four of TROP, which, according to the ratings story above, is absolutely killing it overall. I'm sure the numbers for the game will be pretty high as well.
Could be a fun tradition in the years ahead, with the one-two punch of the Thursday night game immediately followed by an episode of Amazon's biggest show each year.
Could be a fun tradition in the years ahead, with the one-two punch of the Thursday night game immediately followed by an episode of Amazon's biggest show each year.
Every time I heard Rings of Power I hear Johnny Cash singing "I fell in to a burning ring of power"
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Paywall. Jist?
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