***** The Lord of the Rings: Official Thread *****

232,301 Views | 1954 Replies | Last: 22 days ago by Al Bula
Red Five
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Quote:

But this is world set in times that are apparently supposed to mimic the medieval era - armor, swords, kings, fiefdoms, etc. Multiracial and interracial societies are a modern trend. 700-1200 years ago (as this world emulated), I don't know of many (or any) societies, clans, or kingdoms that were anywhere close to 50/50 or even 30/70 mashups of races.


For me it's more the fact that Dwarves and Elves are not humans, so why would their be racial distinctions among them? I can't think off the top of my head of any fantasy setting that portrays either group as multiracial societies. Where those differences exist they are even more divided than humans, e.g. Drow/Dark Elves.
Red Five
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Also, I own and have read the Silmarillian but am not near as big a LOTR/Tolkein fan as many on here, but I enjoyed these 2 episodes a lot. I thought it looked great and was pretty well acted.
redline248
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I agree that the elves are not my favorite portrayal.
chase128
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I've seen episode 1, but not episode 2 yet.

Just some quick bullet points about things that stood out to me:

- They really rushed through trying to explained the First Age and Morgoth (no mention of the Silmarils), which I think considering the circumstances is understandable. The show is limited to what it can cover due to the rights they have. I just found that whole intro segment interesting, and they probably did about as good as they could. I was hoping to see Ungoliant slurping up some tree juice haha

- Why are so many male elves jerks to Galadriel? Her getting made fun of with the boat, and then her soldiers standing up against her. I understand that they believe they are on a wild goose chase to find Sauron, but their negative attitude towards her just didn't seem to fit. Seemed over the top. The general dismissiveness and negativity towards Galadriel seemed ridiculous and it just got in the way of just about every scene with her.

- I thought the actor playing Arondir did a really good job.
- I had to look up where Arondir was stationed. They just said "Southlands" in the show and the map was moving kinda fast and I couldn't keep track of where it was pointing exactly. Apparently the "Southlands" is Mordor?! According to the wiki, Tirharad (TirHARAD) is west-central Mordor. That's interesting.

- Moo cow squirted out poo milk. It's a poo cow. Eww.
- I didn't recognize the symbol of Sauron that kept appearing, I guess that was made up for the show?

- Gil-Galad "rewarding" Galadriel's company the ability to go back to Valinor was really odd to me and the whole thing seemed...off. Reminded me of that movie The Island for some reason. I can't really explain why this scene felt off to me exactly, but the whole idea of Gil-Galad controlling who can leave for the West just was jarring. I've always got the impression that when the elves left Middle Earth for the West, it was because they just felt like it. There wasn't some kind of approval process.
cbr
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SpreadsheetAg said:

black_ice said:

javajaws said:

I thought parts of it were great...stunning even. Some special effects were great...some not so much. There were many outdoor scenes with a green screen indoor feel. I thought the Harfoots and Dwarves were somewhat cheesy. The multi racial aspect of each were very distracting and pulled me out of the fantasy realm and onto Broadway.

Not sure they really nailed this. I actually liked the story so far the most though and it's interesting enough to keep watching even with it's flaws. Hoping as they get some episodes under their belt that it will get better.

7/10


The multi racial stuff bothered you?
I don't think he means he has a problem with multiracial or interracial relationships... per se

But this is world set in times that are apparently supposed to mimic the medieval era - armor, swords, kings, fiefdoms, etc. Multiracial and interracial societies are a modern trend. 700-1200 years ago (as this world emulated), I don't know of many (or any) societies, clans, or kingdoms that were anywhere close to 50/50 or even 30/70 mashups of races.

I get it, we're in a fantasy world where the writers and creators can do as they please, and who are we to say any different? However, injecting a modern or even future world concept (harmonious multiracial society) into a medieval setting (where in our own history these past clans, kingdoms, and societies have been mostly homogenous), is a bit jarring to the observer [but not unacceptable, since were talking fantasy here]

Its the same for me with the elves. I've always imagined them as Tolkien described them - ageless, beautiful, sleek & slender, lithe, athletic, high-cheekboned, narrow-faced, nearly super-human senses - with mannerisms and speech "weighed down by centuries of existence, if not millennia"... However, in this adaptation, it's a bit jarring to see Neanderthal looking humans with pointy ears who appear to be in the 60s (human actor age) cast as these ethereal elves...

Example: Celebrimbor


This actor would have made a great hobbit
Yeah, as with a lot of modern ****, the casting of really wimpy, ugly people is distractingly bad. Galadriel is supposed to be the most stunningly beautiful powerful elf, and they cast a chick who should be in a sitcom about frumpy girls who cant find a date.

Elrond played by some doogie hauser/tarantino mixup ? My god, what were they thinking?

The very forced push to ensure that ten percent of modern american ethnicities make up thirty percent of a cast of elves and dwarves and hobbits was so intrusive i couldnt avoid having to process the thought and then intentionally ignore it. I will say once it got going i thought the african american actors were doing a better job than the rest of the cast. The made up dwarf wife was a character i thought i was not going to like but she stole the scenes.

Overall i enjoyed it because it is sort of tolkien, and though it seems like it is falling well short of what it should be, it is still worth watching.

I really dont get a lot of what is going on though.

For one thing, isnt galadriel supposed to be magically powerful? Elrond too? She seems pretty pedestrian at the moment.



Ps- what the hell is with the *******ed donkey ears on most of the elves anyway? Jesus.
cbr
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Fwiw - i also couldnt make it through silmarillion. Hobbit and lotr were my first books, read in the first grade and many times later in life, but never read silmarillion. So i dont know what the hell is going on from the book, and the show isnt clearing it up much.
PDWT_12
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Only watched the first episode but really enjoyed it. Beautifully shot and I'm into the separate storylines. Really like Morfydd Clark.

Going to enjoy watching these along with the show too, from The Tolkien Professor for those that are familiar.

Red Five
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cbr said:

Fwiw - i also couldnt make it through silmarillion. Hobbit and lotr were my first books, read in the first grade and many times later in life, but never read silmarillion. So i dont know what the hell is going on from the book, and the show isnt clearing it up much.
Aside from some references to the first age, Faenor and the Silmarils, there hasn't been anything from the Silmarillian. My understanding is that Amazon does not have those rights, so we will not see any of that content directly.
javajaws
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black_ice said:

javajaws said:

I thought parts of it were great...stunning even. Some special effects were great...some not so much. There were many outdoor scenes with a green screen indoor feel. I thought the Harfoots and Dwarves were somewhat cheesy. The multi racial aspect of each were very distracting and pulled me out of the fantasy realm and onto Broadway.

Not sure they really nailed this. I actually liked the story so far the most though and it's interesting enough to keep watching even with it's flaws. Hoping as they get some episodes under their belt that it will get better.

7/10


The multi racial stuff bothered you?

It's not so much that it bothers me but rather that it is distracting and not believable. And making things "believable" is always the biggest challenge in fantasy.

Different races exist because of time, location, and isolation. It is only because of things like ships, automobiles, and airplanes that we have multi-racial cultures. As time goes on without such isolation that multi-racial aspect only grows until eventually there might not be any distinct races at all because they have all bred back together into a more common "new" race.

Now take Middle Earth that lacks such ease of transportation. Different races in different areas of the world are left to evolve in relative isolation and distinct races have developed over time. Sure, there will be the exception here and there of people traveling across the world. But in general people don't travel very far because it's not only dangerous but because it takes forever. With such a slow rate of migration between locations (and thus races) there should be very little multi-cultural societies - most such instances would be merged back together over several generations. This would be especially true for people like Dwarves and Harfoots who somewhat self-isolate as it is and are not in a coastal city. The belief that you could have a small community of Harfoots comprised of multiple races living together just stretches the imagination beyond belief. Those people would have inter-married generations ago and they would all look the same without mass migration. Again, there will always be exceptions - but no where NEAR the amount of racial diversity the show is giving us.

So really, a fantasy world like LotR is the WORST possible environment for a believable multi-racial group to exist. It's not that I'm against such a thing, but it literally makes no sense here in LotR. If they wanted to push diversity for the sake of being woke, then they should have made entire groups different races and reserve multi-race groups to those having better access to travel such as in port cities, etc. And in fact, that's exactly what Tolkien did! But instead of just giving us people with different skin and hair he gave us Elves and Dwarves, etc.

Compare that to say some sci-fi flick set in the future. THERE I would expect to see extensive multi-race groups to exist because of how easy it is for people to migrate and intermingle. I'd also expect to see more mixed race people as well given the length of time since different races had developed (less "pure blood" of ANY racial group).
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin
javajaws
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Quote:

Elrond played by some doogie hauser/tarantino mixup ? My god, what were they thinking?
This is hilarious because when I watched it last night my wife said "Hey he looks like Doogie Howser!"
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin
javajaws
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chase128 said:

I've seen episode 1, but not episode 2 yet.

Just some quick bullet points about things that stood out to me:

- They really rushed through trying to explained the First Age and Morgoth (no mention of the Silmarils), which I think considering the circumstances is understandable. The show is limited to what it can cover due to the rights they have. I just found that whole intro segment interesting, and they probably did about as good as they could. I was hoping to see Ungoliant slurping up some tree juice haha

- Why are so many male elves jerks to Galadriel? Her getting made fun of with the boat, and then her soldiers standing up against her. I understand that they believe they are on a wild goose chase to find Sauron, but their negative attitude towards her just didn't seem to fit. Seemed over the top. The general dismissiveness and negativity towards Galadriel seemed ridiculous and it just got in the way of just about every scene with her.

- I thought the actor playing Arondir did a really good job.
- I had to look up where Arondir was stationed. They just said "Southlands" in the show and the map was moving kinda fast and I couldn't keep track of where it was pointing exactly. Apparently the "Southlands" is Mordor?! According to the wiki, Tirharad (TirHARAD) is west-central Mordor. That's interesting.

- Moo cow squirted out poo milk. It's a poo cow. Eww.
- I didn't recognize the symbol of Sauron that kept appearing, I guess that was made up for the show?

- Gil-Galad "rewarding" Galadriel's company the ability to go back to Valinor was really odd to me and the whole thing seemed...off. Reminded me of that movie The Island for some reason. I can't really explain why this scene felt off to me exactly, but the whole idea of Gil-Galad controlling who can leave for the West just was jarring. I've always got the impression that when the elves left Middle Earth for the West, it was because they just felt like it. There wasn't some kind of approval process.

Spot on - especially with regards to Galadriel. They could have gone any number of routes with the Elves and her character yet they chose to make the elves misogynists?

IMO if they wanted to showcase misogyny they should have picked humans or some shorter lived race. Given the longer lives of elves I'm having a really hard time believing that they would be misogynistic.

So I pin this on lazy writing and being a total Hollywood move. But whatever....it's what I expect nowadays.
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PDWT_12
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I don't see it as misogyny. I see two separate tropes that get used all the time in movies/tv.

1) Our main character is bullied at a young age (by boys and girls), and learns a lesson from a mentor or someone they look up to.

2) A leader pushes their followers farther than they are willing and able to go. It's not misogyny, the elves really believe that evil is gone from the world and that they are chasing a ghost. Tolkien's elves were not perfect, all knowing beings.
amercer
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Tolkiens elves were also kind of aloof dicks who only sometimes cared about the fate of the world. In LOTRs it's implied that it's because they've been around so long and are kind of done with it, but even from the beginning there were plenty of elves who didn't want to leave the land of the gods and bother with the "real" world.
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bluefire579 said:

Quote:

But this is world set in times that are apparently supposed to mimic the medieval era - armor, swords, kings, fiefdoms, etc. Multiracial and interracial societies are a modern trend. 700-1200 years ago (as this world emulated), I don't know of many (or any) societies, clans, or kingdoms that were anywhere close to 50/50 or even 30/70 mashups of races.
Spain, Eastern Europe, and the Balkans immediately come to mind as areas where you had a large mixture of races


Yeah, but Middle Earth is heavily drawn from Anglo Saxon and Norse culture and mythology, and that mixture of races in those areas was more often than not involuntary.

You will get mixing where isolated cultures and races meet geographically, like how Europe, Africa, and Asia come together at the Mediterranean, but look at Europe, Africa, East Asia, China, SW Asia, etc in antiquity and the races are all monolithic at their core. You wouldn't expect to find anyone in a Germanic or Norse society that wasn't white the same way you wouldn't expect to find a bunch of white people in the Congo or a bunch of white and black people in Beijing.

Middle Earth wouldn't and shouldn't look like modern New York in a medieval setting because they're incongruous and anachronistic.
javajaws
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PDWT_12 said:

I don't see it as misogyny. I see two separate tropes that get used all the time in movies/tv.

1) Our main character is bullied at a young age (by boys and girls), and learns a lesson from a mentor or someone they look up to.

2) A leader pushes their followers farther than they are willing and able to go. It's not misogyny, the elves really believe that evil is gone from the world and that they are chasing a ghost. Tolkien's elves were not perfect, all knowing beings.


Good points. We'll see how it plays out over the season.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin
chase128
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PDWT_12 said:

I don't see it as misogyny. I see two separate tropes that get used all the time in movies/tv.

1) Our main character is bullied at a young age (by boys and girls), and learns a lesson from a mentor or someone they look up to.

2) A leader pushes their followers farther than they are willing and able to go. It's not misogyny, the elves really believe that evil is gone from the world and that they are chasing a ghost. Tolkien's elves were not perfect, all knowing beings.
I agree about the trope usage.

1) This bullying trope just doesn't fit here, in my opinion at least. I wasn't expecting elves to be bullies to each other especially at the beginning of time. Tolkien's description of Valinor before the destruction of the trees was always so utopian and peaceful. I guess elf kids could just be like any other kids, but it still just seemed out of place to me.

2) This trope could have been fine here, if everyone wasn't so dismissive, passive aggressive, and almost hostile towards each other from the get go. There just doesn't seem to be any kind of mutual respect between Galadriel and her unit. I get there's not really time to hash out in the show how frustrated her subordinates might have become with her, but man, she's always described as one of the most noble, powerful, ambitious, leaders of the Noldor. I was just expecting there to be more understanding, patience and at least mutual respect between elves. Galadriel herself also seems stubborn instead of ambitious and a little whiny.
SpreadsheetAg
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cbr said:


The very forced push to ensure that ten percent of modern american ethnicities make up thirty percent of a cast of elves and dwarves and hobbits was so intrusive i couldnt avoid having to process the thought and then intentionally ignore it. I will say once it got going i thought the african american actors were doing a better job than the rest of the cast. The made up dwarf wife was a character i thought i was not going to like but she stole the scenes.



Agree completely

cbr said:


For one thing, isnt galadriel supposed to be magically powerful? Elrond too? She seems pretty pedestrian at the moment.



To be fair, this time setting is probably 3,000 years before the events of LOTR.... so, that's alot of time for them to develop their powers. i.e. what they have in this era, is maybe some kind of attenuation to or fledgling magic/powers. Not like what we see later in LOTR...
AgE2theBONE
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BAP Enthusiast said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

The Collective said:

Looks to be all based off quotes from the cast, and allegedly Amazon is doing damage control & trying to walk it all back. IDK, stuff just started showing up in my feed. Not sure why…


This. Some of the cast/crew have talked about how it's supposed to be more representative and inclusive.

Essentially, they're trying to copy recreate the success of GOT by playing on the success of the LOTR trilogy, which they didn't create, and playing to a fan base of Tolkien's work, which they also didn't create, by ripping it off, trying to throw their own woke spin on it, and throwing a lot of money at it. It just smacks of desperation and unoriginality.

I will remain highly skeptical until it is released.


This show is going to be terrible. Almost every LOTR fan I have seen on nerd sites expects it to suck.

Well the first two episodes certainly didn't suck.

Faustus
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Thought it was pretty good so far.

4 out of 5 BAPs.
ja86
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I enjoyed it for what it is, as mentioned above as a sort of Tolkien fantasy show.

but using Galadriel as the protagonist was a bad choice in my opinion. Galadriel spent most of the 1st age with Melian in Menegroth learning to be one of the most powerful 'sorceress' (not a real magic user but can't think of a better word). She was not a sword and board chick. She chose not to return to Valinor. She was already with Celeborn and soon to have a kid. She was a 'politician' being one of the only leaders of the exile Noldor to remain in middle earth after the first age, was a ruler in Eregion before celebrimbor got there, and then moved over the mountains with Celeborn.

But all that aside, I did like it. The fiance really really liked it. Her not being familiar with Tolkiens work, she wasn't bogged down by the character 'history' that they were manipulating.
javajaws
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AgE2theBONE said:

BAP Enthusiast said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

The Collective said:

Looks to be all based off quotes from the cast, and allegedly Amazon is doing damage control & trying to walk it all back. IDK, stuff just started showing up in my feed. Not sure why…


This. Some of the cast/crew have talked about how it's supposed to be more representative and inclusive.

Essentially, they're trying to copy recreate the success of GOT by playing on the success of the LOTR trilogy, which they didn't create, and playing to a fan base of Tolkien's work, which they also didn't create, by ripping it off, trying to throw their own woke spin on it, and throwing a lot of money at it. It just smacks of desperation and unoriginality.

I will remain highly skeptical until it is released.


This show is going to be terrible. Almost every LOTR fan I have seen on nerd sites expects it to suck.

Well the first two episodes certainly didn't suck.


Agreed. Despite my minor criticisms its still "entertaining". So far I put it a notch below HotD. YMMV.
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amercer
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SpreadsheetAg said:

cbr said:


The very forced push to ensure that ten percent of modern american ethnicities make up thirty percent of a cast of elves and dwarves and hobbits was so intrusive i couldnt avoid having to process the thought and then intentionally ignore it. I will say once it got going i thought the african american actors were doing a better job than the rest of the cast. The made up dwarf wife was a character i thought i was not going to like but she stole the scenes.



Agree completely

cbr said:


For one thing, isnt galadriel supposed to be magically powerful? Elrond too? She seems pretty pedestrian at the moment.



To be fair, this time setting is probably 3,000 years before the events of LOTR.... so, that's alot of time for them to develop their powers. i.e. what they have in this era, is maybe some kind of attenuation to or fledgling magic/powers. Not like what we see later in LOTR...


Well that, and she actually had a ring in LOTR. So there is a lot of magic power there
bluefire579
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ABATTBQ11 said:

bluefire579 said:

Quote:

But this is world set in times that are apparently supposed to mimic the medieval era - armor, swords, kings, fiefdoms, etc. Multiracial and interracial societies are a modern trend. 700-1200 years ago (as this world emulated), I don't know of many (or any) societies, clans, or kingdoms that were anywhere close to 50/50 or even 30/70 mashups of races.
Spain, Eastern Europe, and the Balkans immediately come to mind as areas where you had a large mixture of races


Yeah, but Middle Earth is heavily drawn from Anglo Saxon and Norse culture and mythology, and that mixture of races in those areas was more often than not involuntary.

You will get mixing where isolated cultures and races meet geographically, like how Europe, Africa, and Asia come together at the Mediterranean, but look at Europe, Africa, East Asia, China, SW Asia, etc in antiquity and the races are all monolithic at their core. You wouldn't expect to find anyone in a Germanic or Norse society that wasn't white the same way you wouldn't expect to find a bunch of white people in the Congo or a bunch of white and black people in Beijing.

Middle Earth wouldn't and shouldn't look like modern New York in a medieval setting because they're incongruous and anachronistic.
The Norse permeated all throughout Europe, including the Mediterranean. There is also archeological evidence that Arabs were in Scandinavia.

There are contemporary writings complaining about the number of Moors (amongst other groups) in London in the 1100s, and archeological evidence of Black Death burial sites in London has shown a significant number of African and mixed ancestry.

It's still mostly white European because Europe, but not nearly as much as you'd think. And even calling those groups you mention monolithic is completely ignoring genealogical and ethnical differences in those regions.
Mathguy64
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All this angst over the amount of melanin in an actor's skin is humorous.

I first read LOTR more than 40 years ago and for the longest time I aways took the phrase "Black Numenoreans" to be literal.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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And all I can say is that I'm underwhelmed. It's not great, but it's not terrible. I'd almost prefer it was bad over mediocre. I'll dive into the details of where I felt it was weakest, but first let's start with the highlights.

In every scene, you can feel the billion-dollar budget. Everything looks and sounds absolutely gorgeous. Lindon, the frozen wastes, the harfoot village, etc. While some people who came of age with the Jackson films may find the differences in the elves and dwarves designs jarring, I don't. I appreciate that they had the boldness to step out and do something different, regardless of whether or not that was a legal requirement due to rights situations.

However, the writing and screenplay was very hit or miss for me. The best parts of the show were those that logically flowed into one another. Galadriel, returning from her aborted quest to pursue Sauron to the ends of the earth, introduces us to Elrond, who then serves as the vessel to introduce us to Gil-Galad. Gil-Galad then serves to introduce the audience to Celebrimbor via Elrond. Their discussions and planning provide the impetus for Elrond to go to Moria, where we first see the dwarves and meet the fantastic duo of Durin and Disa. Here, the narrative is natural and the character choices drive the story, introducing us to new members of the ensemble cast.

Galadriels journey is a disjointed contrivance after contrivance. Rather than a wise, farsighted badass, we get an obsessive half-wit continuing the pursuit despite any useful evidence. She is obviously going to end up in Numenor (which we knew from leaks anyways). So, instead of simply sailing directly to Numenor, we're to understand she survives jumping into the middle of the ocean, is found by shipwrecked survivors, is lost at sea again only to be rescued at least two more times by an increasingly smaller group of survivors, followed by one last rescue by (spoiler warning) Elendil.

How many one-in-a-million chances is that? Is this supposed to be credited to Eru, or merely lazy writing? If you want to get her to Numenor, why not just have her commandeer a ship to travel there directly in defiance of Gil-Galads command? I just don't see the need for any of this.

Next, the Harfoots. I didn't dislike it as much as I thought I would, but many of these sequences went on far too long. I feel like this subplot stole time away from Tar-Harad, which is supposed to be the source of dread and tension in these episodes. Besides, if Meteor Man ends up as Gandalf...

Tar-Harad: Very underdeveloped so far. I don't care about the villagers here, so the sight of a destroyed village nearby did absolutely nothing for me. Nothing was done to make me care about the forbidden love story between Arondir and Bronwyn, so I don't feel for them. Thus far, Theo is annoying. The magical sword... wtf? The sequence at the end showed off some nice horror, but it was far too clean.

Next, little things that bothered me:

The elvish garrison watching over Tar-Harad: Are we supposed to feel like their vigil over these people is unjustified? Because it is not working: I actively dislike these people for being filthy, dirty jerks to one another. If anything, the narrative so far has made me distrust them.

Time and Distance don't seem to mean anything: Celebrimbor and Elrond talk about going to Moria, then are shown outside its gates wearing the same clothes. Why not have them change clothes to show they had to travel more than a little bit? Or ride horses? Perhaps give Celebrimbor a small entourage, so we're not left with the impression he is walking back home by himself?

Gil-Galad announces these are days of peace. Almost immediately, in the far-off land of Tar-Harad, the elves pack up and go home. That is some fast communication, don't you think?

Already, I feel like things are happening yet nothing is happening. These are days of peace, yet when the lunatic who has been searching for evil is pressured to depart, signs immediately portend that evil is returning. This is one of the things that worried me when I learned about the compressed timeline.

Long story short, 6/10.


redline248
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Regarding Galadriel...it's funny to me how they portray her and the king. Isn't she older than him and essentially his cousin? They couldn't be handling her character any worse short of having her become a follower of Sauron for a bit.
Brian Earl Spilner
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I didn't love Galadriel's adrift at sea storyline very much which is the big reason I take episode 1 over 2.

If 1 was an 8 for me, 2 was about a 7.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Also, I feel like they're dedicating a lot of time to the giant so the more I think about it the more convinced I am that it'll be a wizard. Cool as it would be to see Gandalf though, I hope it's not just cause it would be too lore-breaking.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Oh and I know someone started a thread but I feel like I should say that at this point it's probably better to have full spoilers allowed up to any episodes that have aired, just like any other series thread.
The Collective
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Good enough to bring me back.
The Porkchop Express
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Oh and I know someone started a thread but I feel like I should say that at this point it's probably better to have full spoilers allowed up to any episodes that have aired, just like any other series thread.
What about spoilers for people who haven't read the books?
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SpreadsheetAg
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Also, I feel like they're dedicating a lot of time to the giant so the more I think about it the more convinced I am that it'll be a wizard. Cool as it would be to see Gandalf though, I hope it's not just cause it would be too lore-breaking.


I don't think it will be... I bet it turns out he is one of the two blue Maiar (aka Istari):

This may help dust off some cobwebs:

"Each Wizard in the series had robes of a characteristic colour: white for Saruman (the chief and the most powerful of the five), grey for Gandalf, brown for Radagast, and sea-blue for the other two, who are known as the Blue Wizards (Ithryn Luin in Sindarin)."

"As the Istari were Maiar, each one served a Vala in some way. Saruman was the servant and helper of Aule, and so learned much in the art of craftsmanship, mechanics, and metal-working, as was seen in the later Third Age. Gandalf was the servant of Manwe or Varda, but was a lover of the Gardens of Lorien, and so knew much of the hopes and dreams of Men and Elves. Radagast, servant of Yavanna, loved the things of nature, both animals and plants. As each of these Istari learned from their Vala, so they acted in Middle-earth."
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
Possibly. I don't think Tolkien ever wrote anything too detailed about the blue wizards so it'll be interesting to see what they do with them if so.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Possibly. I don't think Tolkien ever wrote anything too detailed about the blue wizards so it'll be interesting to see what they do with them if so.

He's got a couple of versions of the blue wizards, but they're not particularly detailed.

Besides, I think the most detailed version (we're still talking a page of content, max) is in one of the HoMEs, which I doubt they'll be able to access.
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
Timeline certainly matches up though. Good call!

Quote:

Therefore Tolkien dramatically altered his conception of the two Wizards. They no longer arrived in Middle-earth along with Saruman, Gandalf, and Radagast in c. T.A. 1000. Instead they arrived much earlier, at roughly the same time as Glorfindel in c. S.A. 1600. Whilst Glorfindel was tasked with aiding Elrond with the war in Eriador, the Wizards were destined to journey to the East and South. Instead of mentioning that they drifted from their mission, Tolkien points out that they played a decisive role in the downfall of Sauron at the end of both the Second Age and the Third Age. They became known as Morinehtar and Rmestmo, Darkness-slayer and East-helper, and were successful in preventing the forces of the East and South from outnumbering those of the Free peoples in the West.


But given the lack of specific detail for those characters, I think they're basically a blank slate for them, which is kind of cool.

Glorfindel hasn't been confirmed for this show, right? I wonder if he might be coming in later seasons.
 
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