C@LAg said:

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Easy, Rod said:

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Yeah that trailer sealed the deal. Will not be watching. Hot garbage on an august afternoon.

Hoping the Tolkien estate does not legitimize this crap as cannon.

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Apparently their expert which was contractually required to be part of the production quit over Amazon's "creative" bull****erry.

do not recall if that was already discussed here.

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If this is true, then that tells us all we really need to know.

This isn't a property you can just casually change to meet current, political propaganda.

It will destroy the entire narrative.

Nuanced take coming:

I think there are parts of it that look really good, some of it very close to the Middle Earth we've all gotten used to seeing. Other parts (mainly the heavily CGIed stuff, which can be improved depending on how much time they have left to work on post production stuff) looked really bad.

Not really expecting anything amazing, but maybe it can be just good enough for them to build something better in a second season.

PDWT_12 said:

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Nuanced take coming:

I think there are parts of it that look really good, some of it very close to the Middle Earth we've all gotten used to seeing. Other parts (mainly the heavily CGIed stuff, which can be improved depending on how much time they have left to work on post production stuff) looked really bad.

Not really expecting anything amazing, but maybe it can be just good enough for them to build something better in a second season.

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I agree with this.

Honestly, there was nothing there that told me I wasn't going to watch it.

DallasTeleAg said:

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And it will be equally amazing when I am proven right.

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You could wait to be offended.

Diehard fans set their expectations sky high and almost inevitably end up disappointed. It happens almost every time. I just want to be able to shut my brain off for a few hours in a decently interesting fantasy world. I've watched much worse sci-fi and fantasy than this appears to be.

Not everything has to be academy award winning material.

Say you wanted to make a sequel to Purple Rain.

Would you have a soundtrack of music written by Prince? Or would you have songs written by some guy who is dating the producer's daughter?

That's my concern here. You have genius source material. Sure, add a few fill ins here and there to make it all work. But don't trade genius for pabulum.

Reaction to an adaptation is always interesting to me. With books, you're often taking something that exists largely in individual readers' minds and trying to frame it out using real people and places and actions, etc. No matter how vivid the description in the text is, there are gaps that have been filled in with individual imaginations over decades and so some of that has to be essentially violated in order to give viewer a singular experience. Some people have high tolerances for those violations and others very low.

Then there's the original creator's perspective. Now I don't know the guy personally, but I have a hard time picturing Tolkien... a guy who lived through the Somme... caring all that much about the film adaptation of some of his more obscure works.

I don't mind departing from the source material. Jackson's LOTR had a lot of things "wrong" but I still love it. As a fan of the source material, I feel like he got a lot of things right thematically and had a ton of respect for the source material and the fans. It has a lot of action, but it didn't turn into a dumb action thriller.

If they get the new series thematically right, I won't have any complaints about new stories, characters, or bad CGI. If they turn it into a big dumb action thriller or break it to push a modern political agenda, everything is going to collapse on itself.

If you want to do your own thing, don't slap an established brand on it. John Wick has dogs in it, but it's not about dogs, so if they do an animal rights-centric version of John Wick it'll look pretty dumb. Spend your budget casting well-known actorvists, not on barely-related IP.

Ulrich said:

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I don't mind departing from the source material. Jackson's LOTR had a lot of things "wrong" but I still love it. As a fan of the source material, I feel like he got a lot of things right thematically and had a ton of respect for the source material and the fans. It has a lot of action, but it didn't turn into a dumb action thriller.

If they get the new series thematically right, I won't have any complaints about new stories, characters, or bad CGI. If they turn it into a big dumb action thriller or break it to push a modern political agenda, everything is going to collapse on itself.

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QFT

Ulrich said:

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I don't mind departing from the source material. Jackson's LOTR had a lot of things "wrong" but I still love it. As a fan of the source material, I feel like he got a lot of things right thematically and had a ton of respect for the source material and the fans. It has a lot of action, but it didn't turn into a dumb action thriller.

If they get the new series thematically right, I won't have any complaints about new stories, characters, or bad CGI. If they turn it into a big dumb action thriller or break it to push a modern political agenda, everything is going to collapse on itself.

If you want to do your own thing, don't slap an established brand on it. John Wick has dogs in it, but it's not about dogs, so if they do an animal rights-centric version of John Wick it'll look pretty dumb. Spend your budget casting well-known actorvists, not on barely-related IP.

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I was good with Jackson as well.

I mean, it made far more sense to introduce Arwen at Weathertop as opposed to Glorfindel. I didn't mind seeing elves at Helm's Deep.

But I would have minded if Jackson invented new troll character, who had seen the error of his dark ways, and joined the fellowship - saving Frodo several times and helping Boromir overcome his anti-troll prejudices. I would have minded if Eowynn was changed to a transgender woman who establishes that "trans women ARE women" when he/she kills the lord of the nazgul.

Creative direction is good. Remaking Tolkien into something it isn't - is not. Let's hope there is more deference to the source material, but I am highly skeptical.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

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Ulrich said:

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I don't mind departing from the source material. Jackson's LOTR had a lot of things "wrong" but I still love it. As a fan of the source material, I feel like he got a lot of things right thematically and had a ton of respect for the source material and the fans. It has a lot of action, but it didn't turn into a dumb action thriller.

If they get the new series thematically right, I won't have any complaints about new stories, characters, or bad CGI. If they turn it into a big dumb action thriller or break it to push a modern political agenda, everything is going to collapse on itself.

If you want to do your own thing, don't slap an established brand on it. John Wick has dogs in it, but it's not about dogs, so if they do an animal rights-centric version of John Wick it'll look pretty dumb. Spend your budget casting well-known actorvists, not on barely-related IP.

---

I was good with Jackson as well.

I mean, it made far more sense to introduce Arwen at Weathertop as opposed to Glorfindel. I didn't mind seeing elves at Helm's Deep.

But I would have minded if Jackson invented new troll character, who had seen the error of his dark ways, and joined the fellowship - saving Frodo several times and helping Boromir overcome his anti-troll prejudices. I would have minded if Eowynn was changed to a transgender woman who establishes that "trans women ARE women" when he/she kills the lord of the nazgul.

Creative direction is good. Remaking Tolkien into something it isn't - is not. Let's hope there is more deference to the source material, but I am highly skeptical.

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Or injecting a Elf-Dwarf love interest into the Hobbit, which seems to me more like the kinds of mistakes they appear to be making with this version of LoTR.

We'll see, I am hoping it will be decent at least. I dont really know much about the show runners or any of the actors or directors involved.

Why is there so much negativity and speculation about a show that doesn't premier for another 8 months? It was a teaser trailer! You know NOTHING! Think about every Marvel teaser that came out, or every Star Wars teaser that came out. You know NOTHING! The source material is gigantic! I agree. However, the details of said source material is not there. Therefore, stop speculating about where it "might" fail. My biggest concern has not been about the source but more about the creator. I have been fearful that the show would take a turn away from Christian basis points, and introduce more modern, worldly junk. However, the producers did provide recent comment that the show will be family friendly which provides much comfort for all of my kids love LOTR! Granted, what is defined, "family friendly," is pretty wide-open.

I thought it was great and did exactly what a teaser should do...provide anticipation! I am looking forward to the premier in Sep.

DallasTeleAg said:

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And it will be equally amazing when I am proven right.

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Yep, anyone expecting anything but woke trash will be disappointed.

YouBet said:

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chase128 said:

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YouBet said:

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C@LAg said:

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Easy, Rod said:

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Yeah that trailer sealed the deal. Will not be watching. Hot garbage on an august afternoon.

Hoping the Tolkien estate does not legitimize this crap as cannon.

---

Apparently their expert which was contractually required to be part of the production quit over Amazon's "creative" bull****erry.

do not recall if that was already discussed here.

---

If this is true, then that tells us all we really need to know.

This isn't a property you can just casually change to meet current, political propaganda.

It will destroy the entire narrative.

---

I believe he was referring to Tom Shippey leaving the show a few years ago.

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2020/04/15/107811-tom-shippey-is-out-at-amazon/

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Could he have made that any more awkward? Good lord.

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So, I've heard news that Tom Shippey is out because he had a few too many beverages and gave this interview to the German Tolkien Society:

https://www.tolkiengesellschaft.de/30918/exklusive-interview-with-tom-shippey-concerning-lotronprime/

Which was a violation of his NDA.

Repeat, he is out because he broke his NDA not creative differences.

Nerd of the Rings is I would say cautiously optimistic and anxious.

I Have Spoken said:

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DallasTeleAg said:

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And it will be equally amazing when I am proven right.

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You could wait to be offended.

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Lol... i'm not offended in the least bit. I have simply given my opinion on an internet forum, in a thread about a certain material. In fact, my opinion tends to be the most commonly held on this thread.

It seems you and others are offended by my opinion, enough to make personal attacks at me or specifically reply to me, for some reason.

This was already going to be a difficult undertaking. To also try and force in woke garbage and identity politics into a beloved source material is going to overshadow the story, itself.

Apparently, I am the only person who values worldbuilding. If you have a city or region in a story that is filled with a mix of races and ethnicities, then you should be able to explain why. This is not hard to do, if you properly build your world. See Brandon Sanderson's The Stormlight Archive. I don't get mad with Sanderson because he has black people in his story. He took his time and built a living, breathing world that I can truly escape into without always asking how something came to be. Each race/color/ethnicity has a history and geography.

To just throw in a bunch of races and ethnicities everywhere, without explaining how that could even work, is lazy worldbuilding, and I don't respect it.

I was not impressed by the trailer, as it seems many others on this forum weren't. I'll say it once, and i'll say it again: hollywood should look to Into the Spiderverse if they want to study how to be inclusive but do it well. That is my favorite Spiderman movie, and I am immediately turned off by forced representation.

If someone is going to virtue signal, at least do it by standing on top of great art. If your art is trash AND you are virtue signaling, I'm going to laugh at and mock you.

Solo Tetherball Champ said:

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YouBet said:

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chase128 said:

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YouBet said:

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C@LAg said:

---

Easy, Rod said:

---

Yeah that trailer sealed the deal. Will not be watching. Hot garbage on an august afternoon.

Hoping the Tolkien estate does not legitimize this crap as cannon.

---

Apparently their expert which was contractually required to be part of the production quit over Amazon's "creative" bull****erry.

do not recall if that was already discussed here.

---

If this is true, then that tells us all we really need to know.

This isn't a property you can just casually change to meet current, political propaganda.

It will destroy the entire narrative.

---

I believe he was referring to Tom Shippey leaving the show a few years ago.

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2020/04/15/107811-tom-shippey-is-out-at-amazon/

---

Could he have made that any more awkward? Good lord.

---

So, I've heard news that Tom Shippey is out because he had a few too many beverages and gave this interview to the German Tolkien Society:

https://www.tolkiengesellschaft.de/30918/exklusive-interview-with-tom-shippey-concerning-lotronprime/

Which was a violation of his NDA.

Repeat, he is out because he broke his NDA not creative differences.

---

An interview saying nothing doesn't seem like enough to fire someone like Tom Shippey over. For those who don't know, he's basically the king of the Tolkien scholars. Went to the same grammar school, held the same chair at Leeds, knew Tolkien personally, even taught the same philology courses at Oxford off of Tolkien's notes. I'm not completely ruling out that the interview was just an excuse.

Like I've said, I'm completely in wait-and-see mode, but I do want to understand why adaptations do or don't work. Thinking about the ground rules ahead of time is helpful for avoiding knee jerk reactions.

It's a paraphrase, but also a clear statement of a strong theme in his works.

Ulrich said:

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Solo Tetherball Champ said:

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YouBet said:

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chase128 said:

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YouBet said:

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C@LAg said:

---

Easy, Rod said:

---

Yeah that trailer sealed the deal. Will not be watching. Hot garbage on an august afternoon.

Hoping the Tolkien estate does not legitimize this crap as cannon.

---

Apparently their expert which was contractually required to be part of the production quit over Amazon's "creative" bull****erry.

do not recall if that was already discussed here.

---

If this is true, then that tells us all we really need to know.

This isn't a property you can just casually change to meet current, political propaganda.

It will destroy the entire narrative.

---

I believe he was referring to Tom Shippey leaving the show a few years ago.

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2020/04/15/107811-tom-shippey-is-out-at-amazon/

---

Could he have made that any more awkward? Good lord.

---

So, I've heard news that Tom Shippey is out because he had a few too many beverages and gave this interview to the German Tolkien Society:

https://www.tolkiengesellschaft.de/30918/exklusive-interview-with-tom-shippey-concerning-lotronprime/

Which was a violation of his NDA.

Repeat, he is out because he broke his NDA not creative differences.

---

An interview saying nothing doesn't seem like enough to fire someone like Tom Shippey over. For those who don't know, he's basically the king of the Tolkien scholars. Went to the same grammar school, held the same chair at Leeds, knew Tolkien personally, even taught the same philology courses at Oxford off of Tolkien's notes. I'm not completely ruling out that the interview was just an excuse.

Like I've said, I'm completely in wait-and-see mode, but I do want to understand why adaptations do or don't work. Thinking about the ground rules ahead of time is helpful for avoiding knee jerk reactions.

---

Yeah, I know who Shippey is.

The NDAs that all involved in the production signed are very strict. Penalties for breaking them are pretty steep: I've seen some of them from leakers.

Don't get me wrong, I think there is a lot of smoke about this production and a wait-and-see approach is totally justifiable.

• The inexperience of the showrunners
• the lack of material to develop
• The massive Budget

Hell, just those three alone lead to enough questions: Amazon is spending a ton of money on this, yet handed the show off to people who are about as green as can be. We've heard rumors of executive meddling, disorganized shoots, and plenty of set injuries due to the pace and perhaps the lack of leadership.

My speculation is that Amazon backed out of New Zealand not because of Covid, but because they were concerned about the show. Note that filming wrapped August of 2021, and the will be released in September '22. They've got a year of post-production, on top of the fact that the first few episodes directed by Boyena will have been in post-production since filming completed in fall of 2020.

Those are legitimate concerns, before you get into the possibility of Amazon inserting left-wing politics into the setting that people of all political persuasions have enjoyed.