redline248 said:

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There are 2 kinds of people in the world: those who have read the silmarillion, and illiterate baboons.

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I have a nice illustrated edition and an American 1st edition... only read parts of it.

Says illustrated by Ted Nasmith. Some great illustrations in there.

DallasTeleAg said:

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Wow... and I thought I was nerdy. There are a lot of Silmarillion people in this thread.

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Guilty!

But I have plenty of good company!

I haven't read it in 30 years, so I don't remember much. I did very much enjoy it back then as much as LOTR though and never felt it was a slog like some do.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

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YouBet said:

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I haven't read it in 30 years, so I don't remember much. I did very much enjoy it back then as much as LOTR though and never felt it was a slog like some do.

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There are so many great stories. Beren & Luthien. The fall of Gondolin. Before that, the kinslaying and the oaths of Feanor and his sons.

Fingolfin's combat with Morgoth.

The first appearance of dragons, and the one human who was cursed to kill those he loved.

Virtually endless material with wonderful stories, action, tragedy, love, pride, greed, jealousy.

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Narn i Hin Hurin! Don't forgot about the Children of Hurin.

Bought the separate volume for that last year. Amazing.

I finished the Silmarillion earlier this year, already forgot most of it, but I'm looking forward to this!

I haven't read it yet, but will definitely be reading Silmarillion before the series starts.

Fightin TX Aggie said:

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Quote:

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• Earendil strolling into Valinor to plead for the exiles/humans at the end of the First Age. Adds background info to the setting as a whole and the foundation of Numenor in particular.

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The 2 trees were dead husks with Earendil approached Valinor.

Ungoliant drained them early in the first age.

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Facepalm.

I surrender my nerd card to you.

even as a 9 year old that read LOTR and hobbit multiple times already, i never made more than 10 pages of silmarillion.... it read more like geeky notes than a story. but, it could certainly yield all manner of cool movies, etc., i am sure.... so we will see.

great advice, i will likely try it.

Same.

Ha

Solo Tetherball Champ said:

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cbr said:

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even as a 9 year old that read LOTR and hobbit multiple times already, i never made more than 10 pages of silmarillion.... it read more like geeky notes than a story. but, it could certainly yield all manner of cool movies, etc., i am sure.... so we will see.

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Try this:

Read the section at the back "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" first.

You'll be introduced to the historical/mythological style of the Silmarillion as you learn the entire history of the elves conflict with Sauron starting in the Second Age, all the way to the paragraph or two that summarizes the entirety of LOTR. Along with the way, various Valar and Maiar will be name dropped but at least you should be aware of guys like Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad, not to mention Isildur, Elrond, Galadriel etc.

Next read the Akallabeth. This is a little more removed, but you should have at least heard of Numenor and Sauron. Once again, the big players in the Valar and Melkor/Morgoth become known.

Then you can dive into the Silmarillion from the beginning. For the record, the only Valar who really matter are Melkor, Manwe, Varda, and Ulmo. The rest of them don't really come up again outside of the opening section of the book. My advice is just to enjoy the writing.

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tried reading the Silmarillion as a young teen and failed as well. I have copied this advise and will be giving it a go after I finish up a couple of other books!

Great advice!

I also enjoyed listening to the Tolkien Professor's (Corey Olsen) lectures that he did on the Silmarillion, which can be found on his website here.

I don't think you need to take a college course to understand the Silmarillion but I think he's really good at what he does.

DallasTeleAg said:

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Okay... after rewatching all three extended editions in 4k, I must again say Fellowship is the superior film. The others do not have near as many perfect scenes. Watching the Fellowship is like watching Raiders of the Lost Ark or Back to the Future. Each and every scene is iconic and absolutely amazing. Even in the extended version, it is all killer, no filler.

Also, my nerdy side comes out when deciding my favorite scene. I know most who do not fully understand the scene of Gandalf confronting the Balrog love the iconic, "You shall not pass!" However, the part that always gives me chills is when Gandalf declares himself for who he truly is:

"I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. Dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun!"

Just all of the subtext in that scene of the Balrog realizing who he was actually confronting and Gandalf breaking the rules he was given when sent to Middle-Earth to stop this ancient evil from pursuing them. Love it.

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When the movies were released during my high school years, I would have agreed - and I had only read the books at most twice at that stage in my life.

Now that I've grown into a mid-30s something purist, I still agree. Fellowship is the easiest movie for me to sit through because the changes in the adaptation have not disrupted the themes and the "why/how" of he narrative as much.

redline248 said:

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The only thing I think I would have done differently in Fellowship is make Boromir's horn sound a hell of a lot more impressive. The people in Gondor said they heard it blowing, ffs

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Lol, the book said he was pierced by "many" arrows.

Are you trying to tell me that three is many, Jackson?

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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And for my money, the entire Moria sequence is still the most thrilling sequence in a fantasy movie

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You've obviously never seen a little movie called Krull.

Solo Tetherball Champ said:

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DallasTeleAg said:

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Okay... after rewatching all three extended editions in 4k, I must again say Fellowship is the superior film. The others do not have near as many perfect scenes. Watching the Fellowship is like watching Raiders of the Lost Ark or Back to the Future. Each and every scene is iconic and absolutely amazing. Even in the extended version, it is all killer, no filler.

Also, my nerdy side comes out when deciding my favorite scene. I know most who do not fully understand the scene of Gandalf confronting the Balrog love the iconic, "You shall not pass!" However, the part that always gives me chills is when Gandalf declares himself for who he truly is:

"I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. Dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun!"

Just all of the subtext in that scene of the Balrog realizing who he was actually confronting and Gandalf breaking the rules he was given when sent to Middle-Earth to stop this ancient evil from pursuing them. Love it.

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When the movies were released during my high school years, I would have agreed - and I had only read the books at most twice at that stage in my life.

Now that I've grown into a mid-30s something purist, I still agree. Fellowship is the easiest movie for me to sit through because the changes in the adaptation have not disrupted the themes and the "why/how" of he narrative as much.

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I can't watch the others without yelling at clouds.

As a full trilogy, yes the movies approach masterpiece status. When viewed by itself, The Two Towers falls way short of that label.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Y'all should be happy that both the books and movies are masterpieces in their own right.

See: Game of Thrones, S7-8

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Eh, the movies don't do much for me these days.

I understand that stuff will be changed, amended, or even excised in an adaption. I can't fault anyone for leaving something like Bombadil out of a narrative. What bothers me is how things are changed. Little things like "how" and "why" make all the difference, not just the "what".

Key example: Aragorn is transformed into a reluctant hero, leader, boyfriend. Why is that a poor change? Well, now every other human character must be brought down a peg or two: Denethor becomes a buffoon, Theoden is weak, Faramir is a worse Boromir, etc all so that Aragorn can still look good in the comparison. It is also worth mentioning how the subsequent reduction in those characters and their agency undermines one of the key themes of "all we have to do is decide what to do with the time given". Note that in the book everyone is proactive, driving and manipulating Sauron all along, whereas in the films the good guys are pretty reactive with the actions of Sauron moving the plot along.

The last time I watched them I was struck by the realization that Jackson seemed to read the book once, think "Wow, this is cool!" without ever bothering about what it actually meant. To underscore that realization, I thought back to when I was young and would bother to watch director commentaries. There was a scene (the precise scene escapes me) where Jackson goes "oh, this was one of my favorite scenes from the book". After a pause, Fran or Boyens says "I don't think that was in the book, Peter".