Woke up thinking about the lighting of the beacons. That scene is gorgeous.
"And Rohan will answer."
"And Rohan will answer."
***** The Lord of the Rings: Official Thread *****
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Last: 9 days ago by Brian Earl Spilner
That is not this day!
My brother is the real Tolkien fan between the two of us, he's read all the books including the Simarillion 20 times. When i have a LOTR question, I ask him. When he has a Star Wars question, he asks me.
But he does have a small problem with spiders. Can't stand them. Terrified of them in any form. So when he, my Dad and I went to see ROTK on opening day, as Frodo enters Shelob's cave he blurts out "I have to go to the bathroom" which I said back "it's not a real spider, dumbass."
He stayed gone the entire time Frodo was in the cave, but of course as we know in hindsight, Frodo escapes the cave only to be stung by the lurking Shelob outside of it. ANd let me just tell you what comedy gold it was to see my brother's face and physical reaction when you get that Shelob POV creeping up behind Frodo.
But he does have a small problem with spiders. Can't stand them. Terrified of them in any form. So when he, my Dad and I went to see ROTK on opening day, as Frodo enters Shelob's cave he blurts out "I have to go to the bathroom" which I said back "it's not a real spider, dumbass."
He stayed gone the entire time Frodo was in the cave, but of course as we know in hindsight, Frodo escapes the cave only to be stung by the lurking Shelob outside of it. ANd let me just tell you what comedy gold it was to see my brother's face and physical reaction when you get that Shelob POV creeping up behind Frodo.
It's a nonsensical arc.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Still don't agree, but even if so, it creates more of a character arc for him.
Theoden is controlled/influenced by Saruman to do nothing to oppose Saruman's war against him. When he is freed, his initial action is to continue in his policy of doing nothing: retreating to a position of strength in order to hold out. Only when his situation is desperate does he take any action. WhenHelms Deep is on the verge of being overrun Theoden decides "Well, now is a good time to go on the attack". He charges into overwhelming numbers but is saved by the timely arrival of reinforcement (apparently no one remembered Gandalfs instructions) and magical trees.
Contrast that with the book:
Theoden is influenced by Saruman into doing very little to oppose Saruman, though he is at war with him. Once freed, he gathers the immediate forces he can to go assist his western army that is trying to hold back Saruman. Along the way, he learns that the western army has been defeated and scattered; so he resolves to go to a position of strength where they can hold out until reinforcements arrive. Well, the keep is eventually breached and so he decides to mount a suicide charge into the enemy only to be saved by the timely arrival of reinforcements (gathered by Gandalf) and magical trees.
Much more egregious to me is what they did to Aragorn. Jackson's Aragorn was a reluctant hero, a reluctant boyfriend, and a reluctant king who had to be
The only instance that Aragorn doubted himself in the books was when he agonized over his decision to go with Frodo to Mordor or go west to Minas Tirith and later, pursue the orcs that had taken Merry and Pippin. It appears as if Jackson and Fran latched onto this insecurity when he was torn between what he felt was his destiny (Minas Tirith) and his duty (assist the ringbearers quest) and in the writer's room progressively exaggerated it until "self-doubt" became his defining attribute.
I know that their justification was "we wanted to give Aragorn an arc" but I think they could have accomplished it much better. By making self-doubt and reluctance his defining characteristics, they essentially stripped the character of his motivation to do just about anything in the narrative. I also found his sudden acceptance of himself: Elrond shows up and tosses a sword at him (distribution of swords is no basis for a system of government), again pushing him to do the task that has been ahead of him the whole time to be rather jarring as well, not to mention the fact that elrond gives the credit to the sword
Ultimately, the great cinematography and amazing score hide a lot of narrative decisions that don't quite make much sense.
I disagree.Quote:
It's a nonsensical arc.
Theoden is controlled/influenced by Saruman to do nothing to oppose Saruman's war against him. When he is freed, his initial action is to continue in his policy of doing nothing: retreating to a position of strength in order to hold out. Only when his situation is desperate does he take any action. WhenHelms Deep is on the verge of being overrun Theoden decides "Well, now is a good time to go on the attack". He charges into overwhelming numbers but is saved by the timely arrival of reinforcement (apparently no one remembered Gandalfs instructions) and magical trees.
The whole point of his story in the first half of the movie is to show that not just he, but all men, are in a weakened state. The kingdoms are separated. They have no alliances. They are massively outnumbered. Middle-Earth is ripe for the taking.
And then, in that moment in Helm's Deep when he and Aragorn ride out and charge, THAT'S when everything changes. The tide begins to shift. But it's important that the decision came BEFORE the arrival of Gandalf. As if the resolution to finally fight back was rewarded with the arrival of Gandalf and the Rohirrim. (And this is also the moment the Ent attack on Isengard finally started.)
Theoden's arc, to me, is an embodiment of the race of men coming together and finally fighting back the darkness. Aragorn alone couldn't do it. The Ents alone couldn't do it. It took everyone.
Aragorn going over the cliff and being rescued by Smith the Horse from Ultima IV is my least favorite part of the trilogy and keeps TTT from being my favorite movie.
But man, I love Aragorn's portrayal by Viggo otherwise. I understand he's different in the novels, but to me the movie version makes more sense. He's "just" a Ranger to begin with and doing a lot of legwork with the Elves and Gandalf, but doing that is one, leading an army of men who have no idea who you are is another. Elrond giving him the sword was to confirm to the army of the dead that he was Isildur's heir, not to give Aragorn an ego builder.
But man, I love Aragorn's portrayal by Viggo otherwise. I understand he's different in the novels, but to me the movie version makes more sense. He's "just" a Ranger to begin with and doing a lot of legwork with the Elves and Gandalf, but doing that is one, leading an army of men who have no idea who you are is another. Elrond giving him the sword was to confirm to the army of the dead that he was Isildur's heir, not to give Aragorn an ego builder.
Completely. Aragorn's arc is my favorite in the whole trilogy.
If he was just like in the book (which I don't dislike necessarily), it just woudn't make for that great of a character on-screen. There has to be some progression.
I absolutely love seeing Aragorn's speech at the Black Gate, and his coronation, because he's come so far from Strider.
However, I did see the movies before reading the books, so I totally understand those who don't like it and respect their position.
If he was just like in the book (which I don't dislike necessarily), it just woudn't make for that great of a character on-screen. There has to be some progression.
I absolutely love seeing Aragorn's speech at the Black Gate, and his coronation, because he's come so far from Strider.
However, I did see the movies before reading the books, so I totally understand those who don't like it and respect their position.
When he sees Liv Tyler in the crowd and she comes out to be with him, I always wanted someone to say, "Damn, the new King's just picking up hotties from the crowd. Hail to the king!"
And speaking of the coronation, there's not a person in this thread who didn't tear up when Aragron says "My friends! You bow to no one."
And speaking of the coronation, there's not a person in this thread who didn't tear up when Aragron says "My friends! You bow to no one."
That's an interpretation, but it is either wrong or was poorly executed.Brian Earl Spilner said:I disagree.Quote:
It's a nonsensical arc.
Theoden is controlled/influenced by Saruman to do nothing to oppose Saruman's war against him. When he is freed, his initial action is to continue in his policy of doing nothing: retreating to a position of strength in order to hold out. Only when his situation is desperate does he take any action. WhenHelms Deep is on the verge of being overrun Theoden decides "Well, now is a good time to go on the attack". He charges into overwhelming numbers but is saved by the timely arrival of reinforcement (apparently no one remembered Gandalfs instructions) and magical trees.
The whole point of his story in the first half of the movie is to show that not just he, but all men, are in a weakened state. The kingdoms are separated. They have no alliances. They are massively outnumbered. Middle-Earth is ripe for the taking.
And then, in that moment in Helm's Deep when he and Aragorn ride out and charge, THAT'S when everything changes. The tide begins to shift. But it's important that the decision came BEFORE the arrival of Gandalf. As if the resolution to finally fight back was rewarded with the arrival of Gandalf and the Rohirrim. (And this is also the moment the Ent attack on Isengard finally started.)
Theoden's arc, to me, is an embodiment of the race of men coming together and finally fighting back the darkness. Aragorn alone couldn't do it. The Ents alone couldn't do it. It took everyone.
If men are in a weakened state and this was the start of them turning it around, then why did it still require supernatural aid to win at the Pelennor? If that is the theme you're building to and promoting over the course of these movies, then why undermine it with a ghost army for an instant-win? You would think that the better narrative choice is Aragorn appears leading Gondor's southern army, rather than the "green wave" (apologies to Tulane) which would support the theme of mankind rallying to save mankind.
I'm sorry to say it, but the movies have increasingly fallen apart for me over the years. Great cinematography, a fantastic score, lovely art direction... but Jackson was a piss poor writer and didn't quite seem to understand what he was adapting. Even his own thematic additions (like above) constantly undermine themselves.
edit: minor edit for spelling.
Honestly, I don't love the ghost army either. But that's really a Tolkien complaint more than a movie complaint.
But to play devil's advocate, it was only a victory because Aragorn made that decision (which was mostly due to Elrond, I'll admit) to take up the sword of Elendil and accept his true identity.
I would have been totally ok if Jackson made a deviation from the books and instead had Aragorn gather an actual human army (or elf army) instead of the ghost army. But it would have created a huge problem of where to get them from and what to do with them after the battle.
But to play devil's advocate, it was only a victory because Aragorn made that decision (which was mostly due to Elrond, I'll admit) to take up the sword of Elendil and accept his true identity.
I would have been totally ok if Jackson made a deviation from the books and instead had Aragorn gather an actual human army (or elf army) instead of the ghost army. But it would have created a huge problem of where to get them from and what to do with them after the battle.
MuckRaker96 said:
When he sees Liv Tyler in the crowd and she comes out to be with him, I always wanted someone to say, "Damn, the new King's just picking up hotties from the crowd.Hail to the king!It's good to be the king!"
Fixed it.
I think the ghost army works better on paper than screen. The movie tried really hard to show that it was really about testing Aragorn (by having the right and the courage to bend that army to his will) and was a tie-in to when Man failed with the ring the first time, but they are so powerful that they seem like a deus ex machina anyway.
...also, I have never seen the theatrical versions, only the extended versions, so if any of my comments don't make sense that might be why. I marathon the EVs annually, read the books every 2-3 years, and watch all 9 discs of special features about every 4 years.
The army of the dead never appeared on page: Aragorn takes the path of the dead, gathers the army of the dead and takes them to the south of Gondor, where they overwhelm the corsairs and other foes who were tying down Gondor's southern army. He then takes over the abandoned ships and sails north, arriving with the army. The whole event is told to Merry and Pippin by Legolas and Gimli.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Honestly, I don't love the ghost army either. But that's really a Tolkien complaint more than a movie complaint.
But to play devil's advocate, it was only a victory because Aragorn made that decision (which was mostly due to Elrond, I'll admit) to take up the sword of Elendil and accept his true identity.
That army then reinforces Minas Tirith. Ultimately even when Aragorn leaves with 7,000 men to challenge Mordor at the Black Gates, Minas Tirith is actually far better manned than it was prior to the Battle of the Pellenor due to those reinforcements.
If I was doing the screenplay for ROTK, I would have excised the army of the dead from the film completely.Quote:
I would have been totally ok if Jackson made a deviation from the books and instead had Aragorn gather an actual human army (or elf army) instead of the ghost army. But it would have created a huge problem of where to get them from and what to do with them after the battle.
I'd make it play out something like this:
Denethor would still be incompetent, but he is incompetent because he is broken due to the deaths of Boromir and his knowledge of their impending defeat. I'd even set up Denethor as a direct foil to Theoden, only there is no "exorcism" scene because Denethor is not under the control of anyone else. Whereas Theoden chooses to go down swinging, Denethor doesn't see the point.
Gandalf tries to encourage Denethor to step up and lead but to no avail. Due to Denethor's inaction, there is a leadership vacuum in Gondor, which isn't adequately filled by Faramir. Pippin still has to light the beacons. *Dramatic Beacons scene*
Faramir rides off to lead the defense at Osgiliath, which is overrun. Faramir is wounded. It is Faramir's apparent "mortal" wound that spurs Denethor to commit suicide.
When Gandalf confronts Denethor at the Pyre, Denethor reveals a Palantir of his own: He holds it up, and within it Gandalf (and the audience) sees a panoramic view looking east. We see army after army on the move, Corsairs sailing up the river, all heading west. Denethor says the line "You may triumph on the field of victory for a day, but against the power that arises there is no victory". Hell, I'd even include a direct taunt to Gandalf about how it was only the power of the Ring that could save Gondor, but Gandalf is sending it straight back to Sauron by entrusting it to a Halfling. Denethor then burns up and dies. No 1000 yard flaming sprint to dive off the parapet of the citadel.
The rest of the Battle plays out nearly the same. Save for one detail: I would have excised the army of the dead from the film completely.
Earlier, Aragorn uses the Palantir from Orthanc to challenge Sauron and sees the coming assault. He also sees Gondor's southern army sitting on its ass doing nothing in the face of the threat of the corsairs. Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas depart, taking the paths of the dead as a shortcut to the south of Gondor.
Gondor is under siege, Grond breaks the gates. Rohan appears, the charge of the Rohirrim, "I am no man", etc. But then things appear bleak: reinforcements arrive for Saurons Army (as mentioned earlier via the Palantir), not the least of these is the apparent arrival of the Corsairs. Just like in the books, Aragorn reveals himself, leading Gondor's army in the ships of the corsairs.
The drawbacks are that this lengthens the battle somewhat. I suppose we could get around it by shortening the counter-charge of the Mumakil or moving that part of the battle to after Aragorn's arrival.
It allows Aragorn the chance to show he is a leader of men by having him actually lead the battle, earning the right to lead later at the Black Gate, and removes the "instant-win" of the dead armu allowing the fighting and sacrifice earlier to mean something, and also ties into the fact that Denethor is in his current state a terrible tactician and leader. Thus, it makes sense that he would have left entire garrisons idle and ready to be trapped and cut off by the corsairs due to lack of a proper command structure.
Whatever form this takes, I wouldn't use the Army of the Dead. At all. Besides, I think the people of Gondor would be very suspicious of trusting a guy who was leading a magical undead army, even if he did save all their asses. This change means that Aragorn has earned the right to lead the army of the west based upon performance, enabling him to fill the leadership vacuum left by the incapacitated Faramir and the dead Denethor.
Totally get your brother's arachnaphobia.MuckRaker96 said:
My brother is the real Tolkien fan between the two of us, he's read all the books including the Simarillion 20 times. When i have a LOTR question, I ask him. When he has a Star Wars question, he asks me.
But he does have a small problem with spiders. Can't stand them. Terrified of them in any form. So when he, my Dad and I went to see ROTK on opening day, as Frodo enters Shelob's cave he blurts out "I have to go to the bathroom" which I said back "it's not a real spider, dumbass."
He stayed gone the entire time Frodo was in the cave, but of course as we know in hindsight, Frodo escapes the cave only to be stung by the lurking Shelob outside of it. ANd let me just tell you what comedy gold it was to see my brother's face and physical reaction when you get that Shelob POV creeping up behind Frodo.
When my family moved to Lake Jackson, we got a house with a back yard that bordered some woods, which for 6th-grade me was heaven. So of course one day I'm wandering around in those woods, carrying some stick I picked up, and there were big spider webs all over the place. I get near one big web with this nasty, big banana spider sitting there, and I proceed to knock it down with my stick. Only, the spider didn't much care for that, and when my stick hit the spider, that mofo got onto the stick and was making a beeline for my hand. That was the moment that I developed what has been a life long aversion to spiders.
I didn't much like that sequence in ROTK, but I did sit and watch it. But perhaps I've mellowed a bit, as the big spider sequence in the Desolation of Smaug Hobbit movie didn't bother me a bit (felt more like watching an arachnid form of Aliens).
In this version, I think you could also incorporate a section from the book that I really love and feel the movies missed out on. Eomer despairing at the loss of his uncle and sister (he thinks she's dead at the time), and leading a berserker style charge against the much larger forces. They eventually get cut off, and everything looks grim. The corsair ships arrive, he circles his men up for a final stand, and laughs in the face of death. Then Aragorn and his crew arrive and turn the tide.
Edit: I should also add, I'm not down on the movies at all. They are still 3 of my favorite movies. But I think it's fine to recognize some of Peter Jackson's shortcomings as a storyteller, just as we can with Lucas or anyone else.
Edit: I should also add, I'm not down on the movies at all. They are still 3 of my favorite movies. But I think it's fine to recognize some of Peter Jackson's shortcomings as a storyteller, just as we can with Lucas or anyone else.
Abso-fricking-lutely.PDWT_12 said:
In this version, I think you could also incorporate a section from the book that I really love and feel the movies missed out on. Eomer despairing at the loss of his uncle and sister (he thinks she's dead at the time), and leading a berserker style charge against the much larger forces. They eventually get cut off, and everything looks grim. The corsair ships arrive, he circles his men up for a final stand, and laughs in the face of death. Then Aragorn and his crew arrive and turn the tide.
I'd also add the verbatim scene of the Nazgul breaking the gates of Gondor and the confrontation with Gandalf.
The fact that Jackson left it out of the theatrical and then butchered it in the Extended is almost unforgivable. Gandalf had spent his entire existence trying to rally the men of middle-earth into opposing Sauron. Just when it looks like he has failed and he has to be the last bulwark of defense for mankind, it is revealed that he doesn't need to: He was successful. Man will arrive to save Man... and the rest of the battle will be decided by the mundane not the supernatural.
When I said above that beneath the score, art direction, and cinematography that Jackson didn't understand what he was adapting, I meant it. For Jackson, it appears that setpieces and rule of cool trumped everything else.
I tried to do the audio books, but freaking Tom Bombadil makes me want to jerk the wheel into a GD bridge abutment.
The appendices are the absolute gold standard for DVD extra features.Ulrich said:
...also, I have never seen the theatrical versions, only the extended versions, so if any of my comments don't make sense that might be why. I marathon the EVs annually, read the books every 2-3 years, and watch all 9 discs of special features about every 4 years.
I've come to essentially separate out the movies and books from themselves. It helps me to appreciate the movies for what they are - a slightly different telling of the story. I am grateful for them because there was so much that was awesome to see on screen, and I do think Jackson mainly did right by the books. Sure, there are things I'd wish were different, but I'm much more happy we have the movies than if we didn't.
MW03 hit on something - Tom Bombadil is such a divisive character. Why do you think that is?
And this is my favorite part of discussing Tom Bombadil: What do you think is the point of Tolkien including him in the story?
And this is my favorite part of discussing Tom Bombadil: What do you think is the point of Tolkien including him in the story?
I'm supposed to be writing a 20,000 word book about acupuncture right now, but I can't go on without asking one more question of the group: Was it just me and my brother, or did everyone thing that Haldir had the hots for Aragorn?
By the way, don't image search their names together if you're at work. There are definitely some fan art pictures that are going to get you flagged.
By the way, don't image search their names together if you're at work. There are definitely some fan art pictures that are going to get you flagged.
All of my wasted time and commentary on the various LOTR reddits are giving me plenty of fodder here. Here is one of Tolkien's letters addressing the topic:Beat40 said:
MW03 hit on something - Tom Bombadil is such a divisive character. Why do you think that is?
And this is my favorite part of discussing Tom Bombadil: What do you think is the point of Tolkien including him in the story?
Tom Bombadil is not an important person to the narrative. I suppose he has some importance as a 'comment'. I mean, I do not really write like that: he is just an invention (who first appeared in the Oxford Magazine about 1933), and he represents something that I feel important, though I would not be prepared to analyze the feeling precisely. I would not, however, have left him in, if he did not have some kind of function. I might put it this way. The story is cast in terms of a good side, and a bad side, beauty against ruthless ugliness, tyranny against kingship, moderated freedom with consent against compulsion that has long lost any object save mere power, and so on; but both sides in some degree, conservative or destructive, want a measure of control. but if you have, as it were taken 'a vow of poverty', renounced control, and take your delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the question of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless. It is a natural pacifist view, which always arises in the mind when there is a war. But the view of Rivendell seems to be that it is an excellent thing to have represented, but that there are in fact things with which it cannot cope; and upon which its existence nonetheless depends. Ultimately only the victory of the West will allow Bombadil to continue, or even to survive. Nothing would be left for him in the world of Sauron.
Nope, but you did remind me of this.
Tom Bombadill is divisive because in the book he takes the ring, puts it on, and is like "Yeah, so no big deal, it's a ring." His magic and who/what he is makes him above such things as magic rings and evil sorcerers. He's like the equivalent of Mother Earth or Father Time as I interpret him. Even if Sauron used the ring to enslave every single person in Middle Earth, he'd either stay away from Tom or not even be aware of his presence. He sort of has the feel of a Greek god on Mt Olympus watching the struggles below with only a passing interest.Beat40 said:
MW03 hit on something - Tom Bombadil is such a divisive character. Why do you think that is?
And this is my favorite part of discussing Tom Bombadil: What do you think is the point of Tolkien including him in the story?
Of course if you read the book, you're incensed that Tom won't help the quest and either dispose of the ring or just keep it to himself - both great options. Instead he gives them just a bit of help and sends them on their way.
It's frustrating because he has a greater agenda that he's not sharing.
Interesting. So Bombadil is essentially an endangered creature and he shows a glimpse of the beauty and magic of the world that would be lost should the West lose the battle. He will either survive or not based on the outcome, but he's not integral to the outcome of the war.
I can buy that.
I can buy that.
I used to go play Disc Golf at Tom Bass Park at Beltway 8 and Highway 288 south. In the spring those banana spiders would appear and cast giant webs between the trees where 3-4 of the holes were. The first time I walked into one of those giant webs I thought I was having a nightmare. Those spiders are freaks.Cinco Ranch Aggie said:Totally get your brother's arachnaphobia.MuckRaker96 said:
My brother is the real Tolkien fan between the two of us, he's read all the books including the Simarillion 20 times. When i have a LOTR question, I ask him. When he has a Star Wars question, he asks me.
But he does have a small problem with spiders. Can't stand them. Terrified of them in any form. So when he, my Dad and I went to see ROTK on opening day, as Frodo enters Shelob's cave he blurts out "I have to go to the bathroom" which I said back "it's not a real spider, dumbass."
He stayed gone the entire time Frodo was in the cave, but of course as we know in hindsight, Frodo escapes the cave only to be stung by the lurking Shelob outside of it. ANd let me just tell you what comedy gold it was to see my brother's face and physical reaction when you get that Shelob POV creeping up behind Frodo.
When my family moved to Lake Jackson, we got a house with a back yard that bordered some woods, which for 6th-grade me was heaven. So of course one day I'm wandering around in those woods, carrying some stick I picked up, and there were big spider webs all over the place. I get near one big web with this nasty, big banana spider sitting there, and I proceed to knock it down with my stick. Only, the spider didn't much care for that, and when my stick hit the spider, that mofo got onto the stick and was making a beeline for my hand. That was the moment that I developed what has been a life long aversion to spiders.
I didn't much like that sequence in ROTK, but I did sit and watch it. But perhaps I've mellowed a bit, as the big spider sequence in the Desolation of Smaug Hobbit movie didn't bother me a bit (felt more like watching an arachnid form of Aliens).
I can remember my first experience with Lord of The Rings. I was sick and couldn't go to school so my mom rented a VCR (lol) and the 1978 LOTR animated version for me to watch. Can't remember too much other than it was dark and somehow I vaguely was aware there was a complimentary work having to do with Hobbits. Maybe daycare had shown The Hobbit, but that is hazy.
The next time I really got into LOTR was the fifth grade. It would be my second undertaking of a sword and sorcery fantasy series, the first being the Prydain Chronicles. A friend at school (who really was into high fantasy and D&D miniatures and other levels of weirdness) had FOTR at school. It interested me enough that I got my mom to buy me the paperback from the local K-Mart. Eventually got them all.
Unfortunately the same kid who introduced me to the LOTR books spoiled Return of the King for me. I can still remember to this day how he told me the ending while waiting for the bus. He did that for another series, The Belgariad, also. There is a special place in hell for people who spoil stuff. Weren't friends anymore after that.
The covers below are still part of my childhood nostalgia:
I have lost my original paperback copies of LOTR but replaced them. I also begged and begged until I got this one year for my birthday. It is still in really good condition:
The next time I really got into LOTR was the fifth grade. It would be my second undertaking of a sword and sorcery fantasy series, the first being the Prydain Chronicles. A friend at school (who really was into high fantasy and D&D miniatures and other levels of weirdness) had FOTR at school. It interested me enough that I got my mom to buy me the paperback from the local K-Mart. Eventually got them all.
Unfortunately the same kid who introduced me to the LOTR books spoiled Return of the King for me. I can still remember to this day how he told me the ending while waiting for the bus. He did that for another series, The Belgariad, also. There is a special place in hell for people who spoil stuff. Weren't friends anymore after that.
The covers below are still part of my childhood nostalgia:
I have lost my original paperback copies of LOTR but replaced them. I also begged and begged until I got this one year for my birthday. It is still in really good condition:
When I'm reading the books I feel like I understand Tom, but I can't really explain it. He's like the Ents, but much moreso. He personifies nature that is this fundamental power, yet can't really understand or defend against the powers of man/machine. He's orthogonal to almost everything that goes on in any plot. If Sauron tried to kill him Bombadil certainly wouldn't fight back and might not even notice, but if his forests were burned down Bombadil might shrivel up and die for no obvious reason. As Gandalf (i think) says, you can't leave the ring with him because it doesn't even register, he would leave it in a cabinet where any random burglar could grab it.
Bilbo played by Bobby Moynihan from SNL. Gollum as inspiration for Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin costume Spiderman.
I'm with Tetherball on Aragorn the reluctant hero. He starts the book carrying around a broken sword because it's his birthright, but the time just hasn't come to claim it yet. Then he shows up at Pelennor literally waving a flag that says, "Return of the King:"
That's a lot better than a ghost army.Quote:
The Rohirrim indeed had no need of news or alarm. All too well they could see for themselves the black sails....Now he looked to the River and hope died in his heart, and the wind that he had blessed he now called accursed....
Stern now was Eomer's mood, and his mind clear again. He let blow the horns to rally all men to his banner that could come hither; for he thought to make a great shield-wall at the last, and stand, and fight there on foot till all fell, and do deeds of song on the fields of Pelennor, though no man should be left in the West to remember the last King of the Mark. So he rode to a green hillock and there set his banner, and the White Horse ran rippling in the wind.
Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising
I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:
Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!
These staves he spoke, yet he laughed as he said them. For once more the lust of battle was on him; and he was still unscathed, and he was young, and he was king: the lord of a fell people. And lo! even as he laughed at despair he looked out again on the black ships and he lifted up his sword to defy them.
And then wonder took him, and a great joy; and he cast his sword up in the sunlight and sang as he caught it. And all eyes followed his gaze, and behold! upon the foremost ship a great standard broke...There flowered a White Tree, and that was for Gondor; but Seven Stars were about it, and a high crown above it, the signs of Elendil that no lord had borne for years beyond count. And the stars flamed in the sunlight, for they were wrought of gems by Arwen daughter of Elrond; and the crown was bright in the morning, for it was wrought of mithril and gold.
Thus came Aragorn son of Arathorn, Elessar, Isildur's heir, out of the Paths of the Dead, borne upon a wind from the Sea to the kingdom of Gondor; and the mirth of the Rohirrim was a torrent of laughter and a flashing of swords, and the joy and wonder of the City was a music of trumpets and a ringing of bells...
South strode Eomer and men fled before his face, and they were caught between the hammer and the anvil. For now men leaped from the ships to the quays of the Harlond and swept north like a storm.There came Legolas, and Gimli wielding his axe, and Halbarad with the standard, and Elladan and Elrohir with stars on their brow, and the dour-handed Dunedain, Rangers of the North, leading a great valour of the folk...But before all went Aragorn with the Flame of the West, Anduril like a new fire kindled, Narsil reforged as deadly as of old; and upon his brow was the Star of Elendil.
I like listening to the audiobooks while driving. A while back a guy did all 3 books on his own, with pretty decent voice work for all the characters and incorporated the movie soundtracks to go with the scenes in the book. Really seems like it was just a fun project for him and he had it up on YouTube and other places for anyone to listen to. Eventually the Tolkien estate had him shut down and it's pretty well been scrubbed from the internet, but I was able to find a copy somewhere. It's pretty incredible and if you can find it, get it.
Coincidentally, just saw this.Cromagnum said:
Dont sleep on Andy Serkis. This may have been one of my favorite scenes in the trilogy.
https://www.screendaily.com/news/andy-serkis-to-receive-bafta-for-outstanding-contribution-to-cinema/5146434.article
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