So you can't be specific about the "cultural archetype"...... even though you want to throw that out there. Got it.
Reopening Schools
225,441 Views |
2236 Replies |
Last: 4 yr ago by AustinAg2K
Player To Be Named Later
Joined:
Sep 22, 2003
Posts:
23,008
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I know quite a few parents that are finding "teachers" to facilitate either district online learning or a home school program for a 5-10 neighborhood kids at a time so that the parents can work.
If the online learning from the district is too regimented I think many parents will just pull their kids out of school.
Who knows...we may see a long term trend away form our public schools and property tax reform will follow.
If the online learning from the district is too regimented I think many parents will just pull their kids out of school.
Who knows...we may see a long term trend away form our public schools and property tax reform will follow.
My mother in law is a retired teacher and looked after our preschool-ed age kids while we worked (both of us have essential jobs). On the neighborhood Facebook page people were asking about having a teacher that is not working teach a group of kids. Now with our oldest in kindergarten we have considered this if the schools shut down but still think the best thing for them is to go to school like they normally would.River Bass said:
I know quite a few parents that are finding "teachers" to facilitate either district online learning or a home school program for a 5-10 neighborhood kids at a time so that the parents can work.
If the online learning from the district is too regimented I think many parents will just pull their kids out of school.
Who knows...we may see a long term trend away form our public schools and property tax reform will follow.
A lot of people in the Dallas suburbs are trying to hire teachers away from the schools or hire retired teachers. I think people are either going to decide they have the money to buy a teacher or the patience/resources to just homeschool their kids for a year. Everyone else will just be out of luck for the year.
Your district should up the pay for subs, like HEB did for employees/new hires. That will get people off the bench.GinaLinetti said:
I can tell you it won't be the 50+ year old subs that work in my area. It was already next to impossible to get a sub for a single sick day. Add on Covid and we are going to be sol. I've been trying to get a sub for a September wedding, and the 10 or so subs I've spoken to aren't subbing til this all blows over.
It certainly seems like public schools, if not the public sector generally, could be facing an existential threat not from Covid but from it's own response to covid.
Agree this is going to make people really think about how they handle kids' education in the future but the one thing I am confident in related to our government it that it will find ways to "justify" new wasteful spending of our tax dollars so now parents will be paying for property taxes + extra educational expense...
I'll send em a memo.
Aust Ag
Joined:
Oct 10, 1999
Posts:
9,883
How long do you want to ignore this user?
tysker said:
Overarching questions that teachers and admins have yet to answer:
Very broadly speaking, if online education >= classroom education then why hasn't an online program already been at least partially installed, offered and utilized? (And I wont even get into the homeschool, unschooling, being at least as good so give me back my tax dollars issue.)
If online education < classroom education, are the health and safety benefits important enough to offset the negative academics results?
Technology is going to vary by district and region. I know our district has rolled out a new online learning platform that is being tested with summer school. Teachers are doing 4 hours a day of direct instruction including small group reading and math (elementary). I've heard good things from teachers and parents. My district (huge tx district in a metro area) in particular handed out over 100k+ devices and hotspots in the spring and we are moving to being a 1 to 1 district this semester. Students and teachers will be required to use the online system whether you attend in person schooling or online. (If you are in person, this will be a small part of the day to familiarize yourself with the system). The curriculum and expectations will be no different for in person or distance.
I don't think anyone is going to argue that distance is the optimal choice for everyone. Teachers and admin realize that most kids need to be in school.
The safety issue is what's tough. There have been a ton of great questions posed in this thread. The problem is we don't have enough answers. There are conflicting reports of kids spreading or not spreading. (A co-workers kid brought corona home from daycare a couple of weeks ago. Everyone had a mild case but were feeling like **** for over a week) . Most kids will probably be fine. We get it. Reality is there are teachers that are immunocompromised or live with family members who are. Some have other Heath issues that make then high risk. We have to have some sort of safety protocols; however we don't want school to be a prison.
Who teaches the class when the teachers have to isolate for 14 days? Someone said pay the subs more, unfortunately that won't happen. Budgets will be incredibly tight for the foreseeable future. Hell, I don't even get my $75 supply budget to get consumable materials for my room this year.
What's the isolation protocol if a student or teacher tests positive? If you take my classroom (early childhood special education that collaborates with general education students (employee children), if I test positive, I exposed at minimum 3 other adults in my room, 12 special education kids, and 12 employee kids (their parents work all over the district exposing classrooms at at least 5 other campuses). Do we move all those people to distance while we isolate? Do we cross our fingers and hope for the best? Who knows at this point
I totally understand you frustration. Just realize that we are frustrated too. We actually started teaching because most of us like kids. We get it. There's just a lot of teachers who feel like guinea pigs. I'm ready to be back. Distance wasn't my bag, but I still have a ton of questions about what's going to happen.
**Sorry my ADHD is showing in my thought process. I'm also on my phone so I refuse to go back and fix it. Hope you can follow it.
I feel like the TEA has not provided any guidance or leadership and placed everything on the districts. The TEA should provide some general guidance and let local districts make the small decisions. Instead they worry about the standardized test and not on healthy and education.GinaLinetti said:
I totally understand you frustration. Just realize that we are frustrated too. We actually started teaching because most of us like kids. We get it. There's just a lot of teachers who feel like guinea pigs. I'm ready to be back. Distance wasn't my bag, but I still have a ton of questions about what's going to happen.
P.U.T.U said:I feel like the TEA has not provided any guidance or leadership and placed everything on the districts. The TEA should provide some general guidance and let local districts make the small decisions. Instead they worry about the standardized test and not on healthy and education.GinaLinetti said:
I totally understand you frustration. Just realize that we are frustrated too. We actually started teaching because most of us like kids. We get it. There's just a lot of teachers who feel like guinea pigs. I'm ready to be back. Distance wasn't my bag, but I still have a ton of questions about what's going to happen.
This is a HUGE issue. What little guidance they have given has been laughable at best. My district (in a hotspot) should be able to look waaaay different from a school in a rural area with a low number of cases. Instead, they gave a vague one size fits all approach. It seems to be par for the course.
And let's not forget- most TEA folks are still working remotely and plan to for the foreseeable future.
Great response, thank you. In my opinion, 'I don't know' is a perfectly fine answer to any question but we should continue to question because that's the only way we, the public, can determine why are we doing the things we are doing and who will ultimately benefit and who will pay the price. With online learning, it seems like students and the parents are carrying the intellectual and emotional burden, mostly to benefit the physical safety of the staff and teachers. That's fine as long as we acknowledge as much so parents can make the most appropriate decision for themselves, their children, their family and community.GinaLinetti said:tysker said:
Overarching questions that teachers and admins have yet to answer:
Very broadly speaking, if online education >= classroom education then why hasn't an online program already been at least partially installed, offered and utilized? (And I wont even get into the homeschool, unschooling, being at least as good so give me back my tax dollars issue.)
If online education < classroom education, are the health and safety benefits important enough to offset the negative academics results?
Technology is going to vary by district and region. I know our district has rolled out a new online learning platform that is being tested with summer school. Teachers are doing 4 hours a day of direct instruction including small group reading and math (elementary). I've heard good things from teachers and parents. My district (huge tx district in a metro area) in particular handed out over 100k+ devices and hotspots in the spring and we are moving to being a 1 to 1 district this semester. Students and teachers will be required to use the online system whether you attend in person schooling or online. (If you are in person, this will be a small part of the day to familiarize yourself with the system). The curriculum and expectations will be no different for in person or distance.
I don't think anyone is going to argue that distance is the optimal choice for everyone. Teachers and admin realize that most kids need to be in school.
The safety issue is what's tough. There have been a ton of great questions posed in this thread. The problem is we don't have enough answers. There are conflicting reports of kids spreading or not spreading. (A co-workers kid brought corona home from daycare a couple of weeks ago. Everyone had a mild case but were feeling like **** for over a week) . Most kids will probably be fine. We get it. Reality is there are teachers that are immunocompromised or live with family members who are. Some have other Heath issues that make then high risk. We have to have some sort of safety protocols; however we don't want school to be a prison.
Who teaches the class when the teachers have to isolate for 14 days? Someone said pay the subs more, unfortunately that won't happen. Budgets will be incredibly tight for the foreseeable future. Hell, I don't even get my $75 supply budget to get consumable materials for my room this year.
What's the isolation protocol if a student or teacher tests positive? If you take my classroom (early childhood special education that collaborates with general education students (employee children), if I test positive, I exposed at minimum 3 other adults in my room, 12 special education kids, and 12 employee kids (their parents work all over the district exposing classrooms at at least 5 other campuses). Do we move all those people to distance while we isolate? Do we cross our fingers and hope for the best? Who knows at this point
I totally understand you frustration. Just realize that we are frustrated too. We actually started teaching because most of us like kids. We get it. There's just a lot of teachers who feel like guinea pigs. I'm ready to be back. Distance wasn't my bag, but I still have a ton of questions about what's going to happen.
**Sorry my ADHD is showing in my thought process. I'm also on my phone so I refuse to go back and fix it. Hope you can follow it.
I dont mean to come across as abrasive or frustrated, I like a lot of parents, am trying to suss out the reason behind all of these changes because that's how you know how/why I'm effected and when/if things will change. There seems to be a lot of cognitive dissonance and competing internal interests in the public school response and only by questioning can we as parents determine if our kids are going to be the one's hung out to dry.
Off topic, but did we ever hear if they moved their HQ? I believe that rent was goi.g to be over $300k a month. That, along with $90 million annually for testing should have more than teachers all up in their business. We complain about property taxes going to school districts, but man that's a lot of money thrown away every year.
A couple weeks ago, I was ready to see my kids return to school.
After hearing about our district's plan, I'm ready to keep them at home and do online... and that's not a knock on the district, per se, but a knock on the TEA mandates that offer little flexibility to the district.
Luckily we have the ability to do this and it won't be too burdensome for us. Since we know many folks don't have that luxury, we're helping teachers manage social distancing efforts at the school if our kids aren't there.
After hearing about our district's plan, I'm ready to keep them at home and do online... and that's not a knock on the district, per se, but a knock on the TEA mandates that offer little flexibility to the district.
Luckily we have the ability to do this and it won't be too burdensome for us. Since we know many folks don't have that luxury, we're helping teachers manage social distancing efforts at the school if our kids aren't there.
I think as it gets closer, teachers are realizing that a lot of folks seem to be willing to sacrifice the teachers' health and safety and, believe it or not, a lot are NOT ok with that.Quote:
it seems like students and the parents are carrying the intellectual and emotional burden, mostly to benefit the physical safety of the staff and teachers.
While a bit of a separate issue, I think what we are starting to see is that your 'personal responsibility' decisions do in fact have community impacts... and right now, normal resumption of school might be one of the casualties.
We are in a somewhat similar place - while we don't want remote learning, it's starting to look like it might be the least-bad-option and provide more space/resources to those that don't have the option.
Like I said in an earlier post, things are changing almost daily so who knows what we'll end up doing... or even what choices we will end up having.
Like I said in an earlier post, things are changing almost daily so who knows what we'll end up doing... or even what choices we will end up having.
Teachers and admins are not the ones making decisions about anything. It is TEA and the superintendents and the cabinets/councils of the school districts that make decisions about the how/what/when of school operations. They tell the admins to implement the decisions in the schools. The admins then tell the teachers what decisions have been made and the teachers do their best to implement whatever it is, even if they completely disagree. It is then the teachers that are held accountable by the admins, school district, parents, and state.tysker said:
Overarching questions that teachers and admins have yet to answer:
Very broadly speaking, if online education >= classroom education then why hasn't an online program already been at least partially installed, offered and utilized? (And I wont even get into the homeschool, unschooling, being at least as good so give me back my tax dollars issue.)
If online education < classroom education, are the health and safety benefits important enough to offset the negative academics results?
Trust me, the school districts operate based on the opinions of parents much more than the opinions of teachers.
Similarly there are parents (and students) that are now realizing that lot of folks seem to be willing to sacrifice their child's education and, believe it or not, a lot are NOT ok with that.Vernada said:I think as it gets closer, teachers are realizing that a lot of folks seem to be willing to sacrifice the teachers' health and safety and, believe it or not, a lot are NOT ok with that.Quote:
it seems like students and the parents are carrying the intellectual and emotional burden, mostly to benefit the physical safety of the staff and teachers.
I'd like to know the acceptable threshold for risk
everyone should show their cards now so we can see what must be worked toward
is it a % positive per testing volume under a certain number? is it zero cases for a period of time?
tell us now so we can plan for whether or not we want to participate in public education moving forward
everyone should show their cards now so we can see what must be worked toward
is it a % positive per testing volume under a certain number? is it zero cases for a period of time?
tell us now so we can plan for whether or not we want to participate in public education moving forward
Quote:
With online learning, it seems like students and the parents are carrying the intellectual and emotional burden, mostly to benefit the physical safety of the staff and teachers. That's fine as long as we acknowledge as much so parents can make the most appropriate decision for themselves, their children, their family and community.
You are absolutely correct. It puts a huge burden on families. As I mentioned above, distance is going to look a thousand times different than it did in the spring (at least in my district). When we shut down our directive was to put (virtual) eyes on our kids and families, keep in communication, and send one activity per subject area per week to keep some semblance of normalcy. Curriculum for the fall is slated to be much more rigorous (I hate that word) and both teachers and students are going to be expected to do much more. Curriculum should be identical to in person learning. I'm not going to sugar coat it. Its going to be a lot to take on for both parties.
Quote:
I dont mean to come across as abrasive or frustrated, I like a lot of parents, am trying to suss out the reason behind all of these changes because that's how you know how/why I'm effected and when/if things will change. There seems to be a lot of cognitive dissonance and competing internal interests in the public school response and only by questioning can we as parents determine if our kids are going to be the one's hung out to dry.
I didn't take it as rude, but frustrated yes. And that's ok. This has been a **** show. We all have the right to feel frustrated.
As for the how and why the answers are still vague. I can answer from my point of view, but as we know opinions are a dime a dozen. These views will also change as the make up of a district changes.
For larger districts in hot spots, the logistics of keeping a school running during this are mind boggling. The sheer amount of kids and adults in a relatively small space is a huge red flag.
My school is small. We have anywhere from 600-700 kids in any given year pk-5. 4-5 teachers per grade level, 10 special education teacher a, 10 instructional assistants, 5 custodians, front office staff, cafeteria staff, and specialist for math, reading, esl, library, music, art, etc. We don't have room in the building to spread out.
About 1/2 of our student pop is made up of kids in the surrounding neighborhood (upper middle class working families). ~1/4 is made up of low income families ( many single parent working homes) and the rest are overflow esl and special education from surrounding neighborhoods. Many of these families live in multigenerational homes or even multiple families in the same homes. This last half is also more at Risk in many cases than the rest of the school. These are the families that have struggled the most overall.
Our district initially proposed a hybrid schedule that would allow in person instruction for different percentages of the population based on need. (ie special education students with significant delays and at risk shudents could get 5 days a week in person instruction to help close gaps that are already almost insurmountable.) Other students would attend in person 2-3 days a week and get some distance instruction. This would have allowed for schools to have smaller class sizes and minimize risk to staff and families. Would this have still been hard on families? Hell yes. Is it a perfect solution? Hell no. *As overall cases in the area decreased the number of students in building at any given time would go up accordingly.
TEA has basically nixed that option saying that we can't tell parents when they can or can't attend in person. Ok. So parents choose all online or all in person. Great. Problem is, the more kids in a building at one time, the less distance you can physically be away from each other; hence, a greater risk for a localized outbreak at a school and a greater risk of shutdowns due to that outbreak. (That could be from standard isolation time from exposure or from lack of subs willing to work in classrooms where a teacher has tested positive).
I don't think I actually answered anything (sorry bout the rabbit hole), but short answer to the why is: risk of infection to students (also family members living in the home) and staff (and family members living in the home)
cone said:
I'd like to know the acceptable threshold for risk
everyone should show their cards now so we can see what must be worked toward
is it a % positive per testing volume under a certain number? is it zero cases for a period of time?
tell us now so we can plan for whether or not we want to participate in public education moving forward
This is going to look different in different schools and cities. Ultimately, we all want every kid back in school full time. It's what we actually enjoy doing. Working from home sucked butt. I lean toward looking at recommendations from local or regional health departments. The risk is going to look alot different in Burnet co compared to Bexar.
well declare it by September 1st district by district
show your cards
show your cards
From Cy Fair - taking their time which is good. Hopeful.
Why are teachers treated any differently than anyone else with a job?Vernada said:I think as it gets closer, teachers are realizing that a lot of folks seem to be willing to sacrifice the teachers' health and safety and, believe it or not, a lot are NOT ok with that.Quote:
it seems like students and the parents are carrying the intellectual and emotional burden, mostly to benefit the physical safety of the staff and teachers.
While a bit of a separate issue, I think what we are starting to see is that your 'personal responsibility' decisions do in fact have community impacts... and right now, normal resumption of school might be one of the casualties.
Like the people working at Target where the teachers shop? Or the clerk at the gas station where they get their gas? Or the delivery people who bring them their food?
Surely you are not comparing....
Surely you are not comparing....
I read somewhere that one CA school district is moving all online until there zero cases/deaths (I cant remember which) in that county. I'd say its incredible standard but at least its a standard.cone said:
I'd like to know the acceptable threshold for risk
everyone should show their cards now so we can see what must be worked toward
is it a % positive per testing volume under a certain number? is it zero cases for a period of time?
tell us now so we can plan for whether or not we want to participate in public education moving forward
Right now the response seems to be more about amorphous and questionable mitigation tactics. The TEA in an effort to be everything to everybody has left teachers, parents and students with more questions than answers and in some ways pitted agsint each other (because of potentially competing interests).
Player To Be Named Later
Joined:
Sep 22, 2003
Posts:
23,008
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Nobody is going to like anyone after this is all said and done.
Think this country was divided before? We are going to divide even more categories of people who were never divided before.
Think this country was divided before? We are going to divide even more categories of people who were never divided before.
Quote:
You are absolutely correct. It puts a huge burden on families. As I mentioned above, distance is going to look a thousand times different than it did in the spring (at least in my district). When we shut down our directive was to put (virtual) eyes on our kids and families, keep in communication, and send one activity per subject area per week to keep some semblance of normalcy. Curriculum for the fall is slated to be much more rigorous (I hate that word) and both teachers and students are going to be expected to do much more. Curriculum should be identical to in person learning. I'm not going to sugar coat it. Its going to be a lot to take on for both parties.
If we do not have in person learning, then this year will be the tipping point that dooms public school once and for all.
The lost 9-weeks last year was a total disaster [1.5/10] and based upon that I have VERY serious doubts that my district/schools/teachers will be capable of bridging the gap to even a [5/10] remote learning, much less the expected [8/10] scores I expect
If we have to go online, there will never be a better test case to forcing/comparing/offering alternatives to public school which will long-term, doom the public school system.
The truth is if we just have lesson plans, the home-school lesson plans ($1000/yr/student) or specific online learning plans will be significantly cheaper than the astronomical cost of public school (buildings/faculty/lunch programs/teaching/etc). Looking at online teaching of mathematics are already far superior and offer multiple ways of teaching vs in-person. Once I have to teach my kid algebra or pre-cal or calculus, I am going to subscribe to an online program to do that for us (i.e. edx.org)...
The fallout will be massive.
Who says they are? We just don't know yet.Bassmaster said:Why are teachers treated any differently than anyone else with a job?Vernada said:I think as it gets closer, teachers are realizing that a lot of folks seem to be willing to sacrifice the teachers' health and safety and, believe it or not, a lot are NOT ok with that.Quote:
it seems like students and the parents are carrying the intellectual and emotional burden, mostly to benefit the physical safety of the staff and teachers.
While a bit of a separate issue, I think what we are starting to see is that your 'personal responsibility' decisions do in fact have community impacts... and right now, normal resumption of school might be one of the casualties.
So far, there hasn't been anything firm put out there so that teachers know what they are being asked to do. Right now it's lots of rough guidelines.
Before going back to my office, we had lots of firm procedures, known PPE requirements etc.
Teachers aren't happy about this either - most WANT to teach.tysker said:Similarly there are parents (and students) that are now realizing that lot of folks seem to be willing to sacrifice their child's education and, believe it or not, a lot are NOT ok with that.Vernada said:I think as it gets closer, teachers are realizing that a lot of folks seem to be willing to sacrifice the teachers' health and safety and, believe it or not, a lot are NOT ok with that.Quote:
it seems like students and the parents are carrying the intellectual and emotional burden, mostly to benefit the physical safety of the staff and teachers.
But they want to be able to do it safely.
I don't think that's unreasonable. I expect to be safe when I go to my job.
Right now TEA/school districts etc are doing a terrible job letting teachers know how they are going to be kept safe and what is going to be required of them and how they will achieve those requirements.
cone said:
well declare it by September 1st district by district
show your cards
You act like teachers have any say in this. I have no cards to show. And Sept 1st is a bit late since a large number of schools are set to open in the next couple of weeks.
How much real risk is there to most teacher's health and safety though? Obviously there are certain teachers that are more at risk, a good portion really are not at very much if any risk and given that it's been shown over and over that kids just do not spread the virus like adults can, is it not more of an issue of personal comfort vs actual risk?Vernada said:I think as it gets closer, teachers are realizing that a lot of folks seem to be willing to sacrifice the teachers' health and safety and, believe it or not, a lot are NOT ok with that.Quote:
it seems like students and the parents are carrying the intellectual and emotional burden, mostly to benefit the physical safety of the staff and teachers.
While a bit of a separate issue, I think what we are starting to see is that your 'personal responsibility' decisions do in fact have community impacts... and right now, normal resumption of school might be one of the casualties.
I have no problem making accommodations to the more at risk teachers out there. If they are close to retirement, why not (have no idea if this is possible) expedite them to retirement, giving them the full benefits etc. And for those that just don't feel comfortable or have family members who live with them who are at risk, handle these on a cases by case basis. It would seem to me that there are options at least so that we can get kids back in school. and parents back to being able to work full time.
Featured Stories
See All
8:22
33m ago
359
SEC Round-Up: Dawgs facing possible playoff elimination this week
by Olin Buchanan
33:59
20h ago
1.8k
Pick 'Em & Rip 'Em sponsored by PrizePicks: Week 12
by Matthew Dawson
23:22
2h ago
674